How a 500 Year Old Map Still Distorts Our World (#322)
3 Takeaways™
Comedians and creators Jay Foreman and Mark Cooper-Jones (Map Men) explore how the ubiquitous Mercator projection distorts global geography, inflating northern regions like
Key takeaways
- Jay Foreman and Mark Cooper-Jones explain that Africa is actually 14 times larger than Greenland, but the Mercator projection makes them appear nearly equal.
- The Mercator map was popularized for navigation because straight lines on it correspond to constant compass bearings for sailors.
Main topics
- Mercator projection distortions
- Map projections vs. globes
Notable quotes
"not only is it easy to lie with maps, it is essential."
Conclusion
Listeners gain a deeper appreciation for how cartographic choices shap
Transcript preview
Speaker 1 (0:01) Few things seem more objective than a map, but the world map many of us grew up with makes Greenland look almost as large as Africa, even though Africa is about 14 times larger. It can make Russia look larger than Africa, even though Africa is actually much bigger. So why does the world's most familiar map get something so fundamental so wrong? And if we've misunderstood something as basic as the shape of our world, what else might we be seeing incorrectly? Speaker 1 (0:38) Hi, everyone. I'm Lynn Thoman, and this is Three Takeaways. On Three Takeaways, I talk with some of the world's best thinkers, business leaders, writers, politicians, newsmakers, and scientists. Each episode ends with three key takeaways to help us understand the world and maybe even ourselves a little better. Speaker 1 (1:01) Today, I'm delighted to be with Jay Foreman and Mark Cooper Jones, better known as Map Men. They're comedians, writers, and creators of one of YouTube's most beloved educational channels. Through their videos, they've helped millions of people see maps and the world in completely new ways. Their new book, This Way Up. explores how maps shape the way we see the world and what happens when they get it wrong. Jay, Mark, it's wonderful to have you both. Welcome to Three Takeaways. Speaker 2 (1:36) Thank you very much. It's wonderful to be here. Thank you so much. Speaker 1 (1:40) My pleasure. The familiar rectangular world map many of us grew up with makes Greenland look almost as large as Africa, even though Africa is about 14 times larger. Why did such a distorted map become the world's standard picture? Speaker 3 (1:58) Well, it was interesting in the introduction there that you said that maps which appear so objective, and that for us really is probably at the heart of so many of the videos we make and so many of the stories we tell, because that's absolutely right. They appear to be so objective. They look like they are just innocently showing you the world as it is. But of course, as anybody who sort of studied some geography or has spent a lot of time or any time thinking about maps or read a few books will know, maps are horrendous liars. And we live in an age now where I think a lot of people have become very used to the idea of dissecting bias in different parts of life. Maybe that might be in the media or in a source that you're reading. But for some reason, we're always playing catch up with the idea that maps... contain many of these same types of bias, that there is a mapmaker who has an agenda and you cannot avoid that. And even the most banal mapmaker, even the mapmaker who really wants to present the world exactly as it is, they simply cannot do that. There's a famous, much-quoted line by an American geographer called Mark Marmonier, not only is it easy to lie with maps, it is essential. And that is because the three defining features of maps, which are that it has a scale that is different to the real world, that uses symbols to represent things on the world. And to your point that it has a projection, a way of creating the sphere on a flat surface. Those three things are lies. Speaker 2 (3:30) And that's the big one. The fact that the world is actually round, but needs necessarily to be represented on a flat map so that you can put it on a poster or on a classroom wall or on an in-flight map. That's the biggest lie that it tells. It has to squish it flat. And that's exactly why some kind of distortion is necessary. So Mercator, to your question about Mercator. He's Speaker 3 (3:50) one of many people to try to do that thing. I think sometimes the analogy that's used is like if you try to peel an orange perfectly, you've got a sort of spherical covering of the orange, if Speaker 2 (3:59) you Speaker 3 (3:59) like. And then if you try to flatten it on a table, you can't create a rectangular flat. You'll end up ripping it, you're pulling it this way and that way. And so there are different mathematical solutions to trying to represent the world on a flat map. even though it's actually a sphere. And Mercatus was just one of those versions. And his became very popular. And the reason Mercatus became so popular was because it was essentially very useful for navigation. What was a straight line on his map also equated to a straight line navigationally in a boat if you were sailing somewhere. So it made it just much easier to get from A to B if you were a sailor. So it really cottoned on. I think it probably helped that it made parts of the world where the map was being printed and reproduced look. bigger than other parts. So it distorts area at the end of the day. And so Europe was generally quite happy with how it ended up on the map. It looked maybe a bit chunkier than it could have been. Speaker 2 (4:50) Norway and Greenland were especially pleased with it because they look absolutely massive. Exactly. Speaker 3 (4:54) It became the standard map of the