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Καρτούλα ή Μετρητά

The hosts interview George Papantonio, co-owner of Foyer Espresso Bar, to trace the evolution of Greek coffee culture from traditional Frappé and

Key takeaways

• George Papantonio co-founded Foyer Espresso Bar with his brother Mikey, relocating from Omonia to Pankrati after a forced building sale in 2021.
• Greece ranks 16th globally for coffee consumption, with Greek coffee dominating at home and Freddo espresso leading in cafes.

Main topics

• Evolution of Greek coffee habits (Frappe to Freddo to specialty)
• Third-wave vs second-wave coffee definitions

Notable quotes

"Specialty is a term of quality. It is not something related to... the equipment, the techniques or the methods."

Conclusion

The episode bridges traditional Greek coffee habits with global specia

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) you Speaker 2 (0:02) you Speaker 2 (0:19) Cheers. Speaker 3 (0:32) Zoyli, remember when we started the new season, we came with a complaint. That the breaks, while I ate and drank very well, I was missing the coffee. We are Greece, the country of coffee and all that. However, if we leave Athens, with some light interests, I can't find a good coffee. You told me I had sent you. Yes, you sent me the Greek one. Speaker 2 (1:00) It's Speaker 3 (1:00) a Speaker 2 (1:00) fresh fresh fresh Speaker 2 (1:08) I did it. Speaker 3 (1:10) Anyway, because you like coffee, and I like coffee, we have in this third episode of our podcast, a guest, George Papantonio. A coffee man who is considered very humble for all he has done. Despite being a beginner. Exactly, exactly. A very strong and humble person. He's a little red now, you can't see him. So, George, welcome. Speaker 1 (1:43) I came because it was a show, not a podcast. And that's why I'm here. Speaker 3 (1:49) So, let's say that together with your brother, Mikey, Speaker 3 (2:18) Right. Speaker 1 (2:19) Yes, we did. We were in another place. He Speaker 3 (2:22) will tell us the story. We are talking about the Foie Gras Espresso Bar. It has become a point of reference for both coffee and its ingredients. Because you always find something nice to eat. I'm Speaker 1 (2:39) very happy. Speaker 3 (2:40) So, George, who is heard so politely, has participated twice in the Brewer's Cup. He won the second place and then the first place in Greek championships. He was allowed to represent Greece in the World Brewers Cup, where he took the 19th place among the 50 competitors. Am I right? Speaker 1 (3:03) Absolutely. Speaker 2 (3:04) Since you mentioned the high-pitched notes, do you still have a bass? Speaker 1 (3:08) No. Speaker 2 (3:10) Anyway, when you had... I had to keep Speaker 1 (3:13) it as a very nice memory. It was something we did in exceptional cases and we liked it a lot. But it has become a myth because we didn't make it tactically. Speaker 2 (3:26) So Speaker 1 (3:27) you ate it once and your desire remained. I don't know, maybe that's why. Speaker 3 (3:33) Well, fantastic babka, but tamaritotsi. That's what I was crazy about. Speaker 3 (3:48) We make Speaker 1 (3:50) different sweet recipes, we make things that we liked too. Speaker 1 (3:58) Because we didn't have a strict cooking program, we did what we did in the cafe. We tried to make things that we were interested in. For the reason of the alphabet. We Speaker 2 (4:12) experimented. Speaker 1 (4:13) Yes. During that period, and when we started, we made a lot of things, snacks and sweets in New York. Speaker 1 (4:29) We started with banana bread, which is our national cake. We also made pecan rolls, which are covered in caramel. We did a lot of things. Speaker 2 (4:47) Let's start with Speaker 1 (4:48) the Speaker 2 (4:48) beginning. You first met in Omonia. Speaker 1 (4:54) Right. Speaker 2 (4:54) Next to Rex. Yes, next to Rex. In this place. How did you find it initially and what made you move? Speaker 1 (5:04) I think the choice of the place was not strategic. It happened almost by chance. We stayed there from 2015 to 2023. Speaker 1 (5:20) For those who have not worked in the center, they cannot understand it. It is a difficult area. So, if you can endure and stay for many years, you should love it, you should be attached to it. Otherwise, you will go crazy. Unfortunately, we were working in a building that belonged to the public. It's very likely that people know about it because it was in the same building with the movie theater Ideal. We, Ideal, and other stores, faced the same problem. Unfortunately, the building was sold. We had to leave the building. The situation we are in now in Pankrate was... It was a situation that would have been different. We were already doing it. But because of the forced... The forced... The internal... change of the position, we went there again. It wasn't our original goal. Speaker 1 (6:37) Pagratis was always alive and had stores. But now we're talking about 2021. Speaker 1 (6:47) which had not been done in the present state of Pankrate. So, we didn't go there strategically. We went to a nice neighborhood near the city center. We wanted to make a candy factory there, which was not working at the time. It was almost irrelevant. We were transferred there, with a lot of trouble and suffering. and with a few hopes for what could happen. But we eventually loved Pankratis even more and he loved us too, apparently. We like him a lot. I moved there after we opened. Despite his difficulties and the problems you hear about Pankratis, it's true, we love him even more. Speaker 3 (7:43) It's nice to be in Briaksidos. It's open. It's nice to go there on a Saturday morning, to see how people are celebrating. It's Speaker 2 (7:54) still a neighborhood. It has a lot of people. Speaker 1 (7:57) Yes, it does. What Maros said is one of the few roads that open your eyes in Athens. I don't know where else you can find it. In Kaledromios, maybe. I don't know. From where we are, we can see the material without any obstacles. Yes, that's rare. Speaker 3 (8:17) However, the way it is built is a bit like a workshop. Speaker 1 (8:21) Yes. Speaker 3 (8:23) You see what's Speaker 1 (8:25) going Speaker 3 (8:25) on inside. People are drinking their coffee in the window, in the bar. You ask about the coffee machines. It's not a classic coffee, Speaker 1 (8:37) as we think of it. No, when the first control came in the new situation, from the health department. after having looked at the scale of the space. They asked me with great curiosity. Excuse me, have you ever seen what coffee is like? Nice. It's a bit unorthodox, your designer. Speaker 2 (9:03) I have no idea. Tell me. Speaker 1 (9:06) So, he was right, in a way. Just look at it. When you start doing an experiment of your own, those who have done it will understand, although we, from the outside, I mean, as customers, we see shops opening one after the other, But the truth is that you are many of them. You have a lot of thought and preparation. You start and get to the bottom of things to see what you want to do and what you have to tell us and offer in this field. And you are a fan of anything. Why should a shop have a shelf and no chairs? Why should it have a sofa and no bar? What happened to us, if you look at the shop from above, if you have an idea, is that the barista's work space is in the center of the shop and all the seats are around. What is useful is that If you want to see the process of making coffee, there is absolute transparency. You can come to the 5th floor next to us, as the owner of the coffee shop noticed. However, if you want to see your own comfort, which was the choice of the customer, you can turn around and see outside and not bother anyone. So we wanted to have a contact with the people, the people that he wants to have it with. And basically wherever you sit in the store, you can talk directly to one of our baristas, either to ask him something or to say something about your new or old stuff. Speaker 3 (11:00) How do you feel about this kind of gossip? Because sometimes when you work and people... Speaker 1 (11:07) You're right, it's a good observation, it doesn't always work. Sometimes... Someone can take a little more courage, I guess. To touch something, to show me something. We don't have many limits. But in general, it's very interesting because we cause the other person's curiosity. There are many things you haven't noticed. Like in the kitchen, which became the most open kitchen in the world. you notice the way professionals work and you get questions. And that's good, because we want you to know what's going on, how they make your products, what's our space, our machines are clean, they're well-maintained, how we handle them, etc. I think that the consumer is closer to us with this product. Speaker 2 (12:05) How did you decide to become a coffee professional? By chance. Speaker 1 (12:11) I mainly deal with food, food marketing. And in the center, where I was and had another shop, the first specialties started to be sold. I had been drinking coffee since I was very young. everything was in Greek, in Frappe, etc. It was the first time I went to a shop and noticed that the coffee had a good taste. Speaker 1 (12:47) or that there might be a difference between drinking one coffee and another. Speaker 1 (12:52) and it opened up a whole new world for me. At first, I was a customer and I started making coffee at home. Speaker 1 (13:04) and then the computer came along Speaker 1 (13:08) Believe it or not, from the first day I started working with coffee professionally until today, 12 years ago, I have the same... Speaker 1 (13:22) It's like you Speaker 2 (13:23) and Speaker 1 (13:23) your Speaker 2 (13:23) appetite. Speaker 1 (13:25) The same enthusiasm at crazy moments. I can't sleep. I think about something at night and it comes to my mind and I can get up and go to the kitchen to try it. It's strange and it makes me wonder how after so many years... When you do