Medieval Korea: from the Goryeo to Joseon periods

You're Dead to Me

This episode explores the historical transition from the Goryeo to the Joseon dynasties in medieval Korea. The hosts and guests delve into f

Key takeaways

The Korean origin myth features a bear that transformed into a human after consuming garlic and wormwood for 100 days.
The Goryeo dynasty was established by Wang Geon in 918, initially encompassing parts of Manchuria.
A geomancer named Myocheong led a failed rebellion attempting to move the capital to Pyongyang.
During Mongol vassalage, Korea was obligated to provide tribute including young men for eunuch service and women as courtesans.
The Joseon dynasty was founded by Yi Seong-gye in 1392, moving the capital to Hanyang (modern Seoul).

Main topics

Korean origin myths
Goryeo and Joseon dynasties
Mongol invasions of Korea

Notable quotes

In a world where swords were sharp.

Conclusion

The episode provides an engaging and educational overview of how polit

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:00) This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Speaker 4 (0:06) in a world where swords were sharp. And Speaker 2 (0:09) hygiene was actually probably better than you think it is. Two fearless historians. Me, Matt Lewis. And me, Dr. Eleanor Janaga, dive headfirst into the mud, blood, and very strange customs of the Middle Ages. So for plagues, Speaker 4 (0:24) crusades, and Viking raids, and plenty of other things that don't rhyme, subscribe to Gone Medieval from History Hit wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 5 (0:42) Hello and welcome to You're Dead to Me, we're Speaker 4 (0:44) the Speaker 5 (0:44) Radio 4 comedy podcast that takes history seriously. My name's Greg Jenner, I'm a public historian, author and broadcaster. And today we are mastering our hungul and watching out for marauding Mongols as we march back through the centuries to learn all about medieval Korea. And to help us sort out our choreo from our Choson dynasties, we have two very special guests. In History Corner, he's Assistant Professor of East Asian History at the University of Durham. He's a historian of early modern East Asia, especially the Korean Peninsula. With a particular research focus on environmental history, it's Dr. John Lee. Welcome, John. Thank you for having me. I'm really happy to be here. Pleasure to have you in. And in Comedy Corner, she's an Emmy-nominated writer and comedian. Maybe you've watched one of the many hilarious shows she's written for, including Late Night Mash, Nevermind the Buzzcocks, or Kunk on Life. Or maybe you've seen her guesting on Frankie Boyle's New World Order, or comedians giving lectures, or you've seen her live on tour as a stand-up. It's Erica Ehler. Welcome, Erica. Hello. Welcome to the show. Happy to be here. We're delighted to have you in. It is your first time on the podcast, so I am contractually obliged to ask you, do you like history? Speaker 3 (1:48) I will say I liked history when my hot history teacher taught it to me. Oh, no. Speaker 5 (1:53) Okay. So there's a crush involved. There was a crush involved. Okay. But Speaker 3 (1:56) it did get me interested. I got really good marks that year. Speaker 5 (2:01) Okay. Hot teacher. That's good. But history now, are you still into history now? Or is that a faded time for you? I'd say Speaker 3 (2:08) it's a bit faded. It's one of those things where I don't actively... seek it out. But whenever somebody tells me something, I do find it really interesting. Like my dad's like a real history nerd. And sometimes when we're on road trips, that's his way of connecting with his daughter. It's an interesting choice. It doesn't always work, but I do find it enlightening. Like it's fun to learn. It's very strong dad energy to do Speaker 5 (2:28) history. And I mean, I've heard that when you were younger, you were a bit of a K-pop fan. Speaker 3 (2:32) Yeah, when I was in high school. Yeah, it was very popular in my high school. In fact, it started like a drama on prom night because this Speaker 2 (2:40) one girl wanted only k-pop songs it Speaker 3 (2:42) wasn't Speaker 2 (2:43) me out to be clear Speaker 3 (2:43) i'm a little bit more um but yeah and uh it was super popular yeah Speaker 5 (2:48) i mean it's still huge i mean Speaker 3 (2:50) it Speaker 5 (2:50) still is now yeah massive so you know a little bit about the kind of modern uh sort of k-pop culture do you know anything about the history of korea medieval korea in fact not Speaker 3 (2:59) at all not at all ditto so what do you know Speaker 5 (3:09) This is called the So What Do You Know? This is where I have a go at guessing what you, our lovely listener or viewer, hello, what you might know about today's subject. Now, nowadays, Korean culture, of course, is a global sensation. So maybe you love Korean masterpiece movies like Parasite or you're tuning into your K-dramas like Squid Game or Crash Landing on You. Perhaps you've... You've adored K-pop. Perhaps you caught BTS on their record-breaking tour or saw them at the World Cup final. Maybe you've got a bias or a bias wrecker you can't stop thinking about. Maybe you're just obsessed with Korean skincare or kimchi or Blackpink or K-pop Demon Hunters, my daughter's favourite film. But when it comes to medieval Korea, maybe you know a little bit about the historical K-dramas, but I'm not sure there's much more beyond that, certainly not for me. So perhaps the history is less familiar. So what do we need to know about medieval Korea? How does it measure up to the plot of Alchemy of Souls? And what does a garlic-eating bear have to do with anything? Let's find out. Right, John, I've said this episode is about medieval Korea. Medieval is sort of a European concept. We go Romans to Renaissance in European history. Does the same apply to Korea? And can we identify our medieval period? Speaker 6 (4:18) Right, so the era roughly contemporaneous with the European Middle Ages. That would be the Goryeo and Chosun eras in Korean history. So Goryeo ruling from 918 and Chosun lasting all the way from 1392 to 1910. So one of the longest regimes of the late medieval, early modern world. And these dynasties ruled pretty much the Korean peninsula. So that's roughly... comprising North and South Korea today. And just to give you a sense of size, the Korean peninsula is roughly the size of Great Britain. Speaker 5 (4:52) Oh, great. Speaker 6 (4:53) Yeah, roughly. Okay. Tiny bit smaller. Today, we'll be looking at a period from the establishment of Koryo rule in 1918 to the 1590s, an important decade when you see these sort of failed Japanese invasions that lead to a lot of changes in Korean society. Speaker 5 (5:10) So 1918 to the 1590s. So that's the equivalent of... Alfred the Great to Queen Elizabeth I. It's quite a lot of history by British, you know, if your comparison's there. For the Korean people, where do we begin our origin myth? Do you know the origin story of the Korean people? Have you ever encountered it? Speaker 3 (5:25) I can't say I have, no. Do Speaker 5 (5:27) you Speaker 3 (5:27) want to have a Speaker 5 (5:27) guess? Speaker 3 (5:28) The origin of Korean people? Like a myth. A myth, how they came about? Yeah. I assume a god is involved, I would guess. Yeah. A god is involved. Maybe if I, with the knowledge I know about K Speaker 2 (5:40) -pop. that there was a boot camp of them all Speaker 3 (5:44) trying to be like, we're going to make you these beautiful people with clear skin. And then they're like, that's Koreans. Speaker 5 (5:52) Amazing. So they're all learning choreography. Speaker 3 (5:54) Yeah. Okay. Speaker 5 (5:54) I mean, I love that. I think God Involved is an interesting, it's not far off, but I mean, we have to say it involves lions and tigers and bears. Oh my, not the lions. It involves tigers and bears. How does this story... Begin, what is it? Tell us about the beginnings. Speaker 6 (6:10) Well, so this common origin myth that you still see if you open like a primary school history textbook today in North or South Korea, involves, it starts with a god, so you're right on that, named Hwanung, who went to live among humans on a mountain, coined a legend, this is Taebaeksan, probably referring to Baekdusan, which is a mountain on the sort of present day North Korean Chinese border. Speaker 6 (6:38) And on that mountain, there was a bear and a tiger living in a cave. And they prayed to this god to make them, to turn them into humans. And so the god answered their prayers, but with a contest. So this is the boot camp here. So he gave them wormwood and 20 pieces of garlic and said, if you can just eat this. and not see sunlight for a hundred days. their wish should be granted. He would turn them into a human. The tiger failed. He couldn't take it after. He just left. But the bear was patient and succeeded. And the god turned the bear into a woman. And they had a child. And this child was named Dan-gun, who would rule supposedly for 1,500 years or a huge long period of time. And his descendants are... According to this myth, the founders of Korea's ancient kingdoms. Speaker 5 (7:41) Wow. Yeah. So they're in a cave with garlic and Speaker 6 (7:44) wormwood, you said? What's wormwood? Okay, the Korean term would probably be a sook, which could be wormwood or mugwort. So a type of herb, an edible herb. Okay, Speaker 5 (7:54) an Speaker 6 (7:54) edible herb. Okay, lovely. Garlic and herbs. Not so bad. Yeah. Speaker 5 (7:58) So Erica is a hundred days of darkness and constant garlic breath. worth it to be a human? Is being a human that good? I Speaker 3 (8:04) don't know if our experience is that good, but I like Speaker 5 (8:07) garlic though. Okay. Okay. Speaker 3 (8:10) I Speaker 5 (8:10) mean, I feel like a bear in a cave. That's easy. Bears live in caves. Speaker 1 (8:13) Yeah. Poor Speaker 5 (8:14) tiger. Also, I thought tigers would be stronger. So, okay. So we have our origin myth, but when does Korea emerge as a single kingdom? Because as I understand from ancient Korean history, there are quite a lot of disparate ancient kingdoms. But we're into the medieval period. So when do we get our foundational Korean kingdom? Or don't we? Speaker 6 (8:34) Well, yeah, there's various sort of ancient kingdoms that are pointed out in the archaeological record. But if we look at the written documentary evidence, by the 3rd or 4th century Common Era, you have three kingdoms firmly established on the Korean peninsula, known as Goguryeo, Baekje, and Silla. And then... In the 10th century, a warlord named Wang Geon would unify the Korean peninsula and establish the first ruler of the Goryeo dynasty, which starts our sort of medieval narrative in 918. Right. So this kingdom consisted again of the Korean peninsula plus a chunk of Manchuria as well. Speaker 6 (9:21) the Amnok River forming the boundary with Chinese dynasties. Yeah, Speaker 5 (9:25) Manchuria is northeast China, right? So that's quite a large stretch of land. Speaker 6 (9:29) That's right. So the earlier kingdom I mentioned, Koryo, actually controlled a huge chunk of Manchuria back in, again, a much earlier period. Okay, so the Koryo dynasty, is Speaker 5 (9:40) that where we get the word Koryo from? That's right. Yeah, Speaker 6 (9:42) and Speaker 5 (9:42) is that where we get the word Korea from? That's right. That's helpful. Okay, good. So presumably the reason that... you know, K-pop bands are so good at choreo is because they're named after choreo. It's within them. It's natural. It's in the name. The clue's there. It's very helpful. We have our first Korean king, Wong Kong, was it? Speaker 6 (9:59) Wong Kong, yes. Yeah, Speaker 5 (10:00) great. So he's sort of the first warlord who controls this landmass, which is very, very helpful. But we're already jumping ahead because we're into now the 12th century and we get a serious rebellion against the choreo rule. Erika, can you guess the profession of the man who leads this rebellion? He's not a sort of king. He's got another hobby. Speaker 3 (10:19) I'm going to say cook. Oh, nice. Just because. Just, you know, just Speaker 5 (10:24) really good. I Speaker 3 (10:25) have a feeling. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like Korean food is very good. If someone's Speaker 5 (10:30) a Speaker 3 (10:30) leader, maybe that's where it came from. Speaker 5 (10:32) I would certainly follow a good cook into battle. Yeah. You know, you're going to get a really good meal out of it. It's not a cook. The phrase is... Speaker 6 (10:40) A geomancer? Speaker 5 (10:41) A Speaker 6 (10:41) geomancer. Speaker 5 (10:42) That's right. Speaker 6 (10:43) That's right. So we have no idea about this man's cooking skills, but Miao Cheng was his name. A geomancer. Speaker 5 (10:50) Which means what? Sorcerer? Speaker 6 (10:52) In a sense, it's like a diviner, sort of a master of sort of this kind of East Asian, some would call it a sort of pseudoscience of Chinese feng shui and Korean feng shui. Finding fortunate. places to build your house or bury your ancestors. And in a sense, yeah, you could say a sort of expert fortune teller and diviner. That's pretty handy as a leader. Speaker 3 (11:20) Yeah, so he's like doing a vibe check everywhere to make sure that it's, yeah, all good. Yeah, it's a good place for battle. Yeah, vibe check. Yeah, we're going to win. Speaker 5 (11:29) That's really amazing. I mean, geo, I suppose, is where we get the word earth from. So the idea of the earth, geo, he's looking at these places and... he feels something is a positive place to be or, you know, does that mean he's sort of got fortune telling skills as well? He knows what's coming. Pretty handy. Does that mean, therefore, that he wins? You know, is it Myo Chong, his name, Myo Chong? Myo Speaker 6 (11:51) Chong, Speaker 5 (11:51) that's right. Does he win this rebellion? He does not. Ah, okay. Speaker 6 (11:55) Unfortunately. Speaker 5 (11:56) Well, he should have seen it. I was about to Speaker 3 (11:57) make the same joke. Speaker 1 (11:59) He Speaker 6 (12:00) must have told his followers something else, but... Essentially, he tried to move the Korean capital from the Goryeo capital of Kaesong, which is close to the current DMZ that separates South and North Korea on the North Korean side presently. He wanted to move the capital to Pyongyang, the current capital of North Korea, so much further to the northwest. And scholars think that Myocheong also represented this sort of... This tension between Koreans who were more nativist, who wanted a more assertive, independent foreign policy, and Koreans who wanted closer ties with China. And this is important because this is a tension that will persist, one could argue, in later periods in Korean history as well. Speaker 5 (12:44) And in terms of faith at this time, are the Koreans Confucians? What's their faith, Buddhism? Speaker 6 (12:50) In the Koryo period, you could say it was much more pluralistic. You had these like kind of... nativist geomancers like uh milchung but he was also a buddhist monk so he had this kind of pluralistic more eclectic uh strain of ideas just flowing through korea he had confusions who could also pay uh be patrons of buddhist temples and so forth but okay in the chosen period which we'll talk about later is more confusion in a sense okay yeah Speaker 5 (13:19) So Magic Mio Jong, you know, he's not quite Magic Mike because actually it all sort of falls apart for him. It doesn't really work out. So he doesn't really succeed. So the Koryo dynasty continues. And the man sent to defeat him is called Kim Pusik. Kim Pusik, that's right. And is this a mission Kim possible? You know, is this a kind of, is he going to just swoop in and just crush him? How do you defeat a Magic Mio man, say? Speaker 6 (13:43) So Kim Pusik seems to be, at least according to the records, some of which he wrote himself, so this is rather biased. He's a sort of classic Confucian bureaucrat, but also a member of these aristocratic families from the Southeast. So he certainly had influence, he certainly had money, and these sort of broader networks and influences and the wealth that could raise a large army and crush this rebellion in the Northwest. In the aftermath, Kim Busek helped restructure Koryo's governance. make it more centralized around a ruler and his close ministers, trying to follow this more sort of classic Chinese-style Confucian bureaucracy. He also compiled the histories of the three kingdoms, and this is where the bias comes in. A lot of what we know about these periods in Korean history come also from Kim Busek's own writing, which tends to make his part of Korea in the Southeast look very good and make himself look really good. That's not, he's not the first person in history to do that. No, Julius Caesar did the Speaker 5 (14:44) same, but he's sure. So the pen is mightier than the sword, but actually get yourself a man who can do both, Erica, because, you know, he's got the pen and the sword. Speaker 3 (14:51) He's doing it Speaker 5 (14:52) all. Do we consider Kim Pusik to be a king in his own right, or is he kind of reforming on behalf of the Goryeo kings?