Shelby Haas-Sapp: The Sales Psychology That Gets Buyers to Sell Themselves | Sales | YAPClassic

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha: Entrepreneurship and Self-Improvement Podcast

In this episode of Young and Profiting, Hala Taha interviews Shelby Haas-Sapp, the founder of She Sells Academy, about the psychology behind

Key takeaways

• Female sales representatives are statistically 11% more likely to win deals than men.
• Shelby advocates for a 'sales psychopath' mindset, which involves extreme work ethic and emotional regulation despite frequent rejection.

Main topics

• Sales Psychology
• Gender Dynamics in Sales

Notable quotes

Sales isn't a chase, it's a dance.

Conclusion

The episode serves as a masterclass in using psychological framing and

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) Sales isn't a chase, it's a dance. And when you chase somebody, they're gonna run away. I like to say you have to be a complete literal psychopath in sales. You're gonna go call, call, call, door, door, door of no, no, no, no. But you have to go into every single encounter thinking this is the person that's gonna buy from me. And Speaker 1 (0:19) I got some stats, female reps are 11 % more likely to win deals than men. So talk to us about why women are so good at selling. Speaker 2 (0:28) So Speaker 1 (0:28) this Speaker 2 (0:28) is what I've found is people believe 0 % of the words that come out of a salesperson's mouth because duh, you're a sales rep. But they believe 100 % of the words that come out of their own mouth. So a lot of my job is asking the right questions and getting them to say the words that they can't go back on later. So Speaker 1 (0:45) on Instagram, what do you feel like goes most viral? There's like two buckets. One bucket is... Yeah, fam, if you want to stop sounding salesy and start closing more deals like somebody who knows they just belong in the room, you're going to love this episode. Today, we're bringing back my awesome conversation with Shelby Sapp, founder and CEO of SheSells Academy. Shelby has built a massive brand teaching women how to dominate high-ticket sales, and she is totally the it girl in business right now. And in this episode, she and I talk about why the best salespeople don't chase beg or over-explain. They bring the right energy, ask questions that make buyers sell themselves, and prevent objections before they ever happen. So without further ado, let's dive right into my amazing conversation with Shelby Sapp. Speaker 2 (1:35) Shelby, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm Speaker 1 (1:39) so excited to talk to you today because I love sales. I feel like I'm a natural salesperson. Everything I do at my company right now, the main focus is sales. I've been selling since I was 10 years old, I would say. But many people think that sales are scary. And Jeremy Miner came on my show. I know you talked to him recently. And he says that nobody is born a salesperson and you've got to work at it. So that's my first question to you. What kind of person do you think is cut out for sales? Do you think everybody is cut out for sales? oh my gosh, you would never Speaker 2 (2:14) guess who's going to be good at sales is what I've Speaker 1 (2:17) learned. Speaker 2 (2:17) And that's coming from my sales trainer background from different industries is I would put money on like this guy that would come out and do door to door, top of the football team, super extravagant, extroverted guy. I'm like, you're going to do so good. He doesn't Speaker 1 (2:35) at all. But Speaker 2 (2:36) then like the shy person that just. studies, knows the scripts, works hard, doesn't sit down, that person completely outsells the other one. So you really just never know. But I think the main trait of like what makes somebody good is intrinsic motivation. And I think at the end of the day, no matter your personality type, shy, extroverted, outgoing, if you know that you are so motivated that nothing else is going to stop you, Speaker 1 (3:02) that's Speaker 2 (3:03) what's going to make you good. Because at the end of the day, you can teach anybody sales. right? But it's like the work ethic. And when you're so down, going for that extra call, rolling that extra objection, you can't really teach somebody that. So I always look for that in the girls that are in my academy and really try to instill the intrinsic motivation in them. That's Speaker 1 (3:25) such a great point. And speaking of like mindset, motivation, what kind of limiting beliefs do you feel like people usually have that's holding them back from actually being good at selling? Speaker 2 (3:36) Ooh, I would say that people are scary. People are not scary at all. Especially I teach a lot of women. The men, they're like so scared to sell these alpha males. And it's like, those guys are more than often the teddy bears. And they kind of respect when you are a little bit pushy with them. Like, they're like, okay, like I respect this girl. I respect the hustle. So just kind of knowing that other people aren't as. scary as they seem, and they have no idea what you're saying. So you can just have fun with it, bring back the human connection to sales rather than just like selling with a script. Speaker 1 (4:15) So you're like blowing up on social media. You're doing really well on Instagram and TikTok. And I saw one of your videos and you were talking about how you need to be a sales psychopath. Oh, Speaker 2 (4:27) yes, you do. Talk to me about that. So I like to say you have to be a complete literal psychopath in sales because a lot of people think, you know, sales is super cool, the shiny thing. You can make a lot of money. It's like, yes, but you don't get paid to show up. You get paid to go the extra mile. And sales is something to where it's a direct reflection of your work ethic. So if you really want to make it worth it and to be that top 1 % cream of the crop, you have to be a little bit of a psycho, not only in your work ethic, but also in your ability to just know how to regulate your emotions throughout the day. Like, for example, you're going to go call, call, call, door, door, door of no, no, no, no. But you have to go into every single encounter thinking, this is the sale. This is the person that's going to buy from me. Speaker 1 (5:20) When Speaker 2 (5:20) maybe the last 10 people told you to. yourself, you know? Speaker 1 (5:24) So Speaker 2 (5:24) to me, that's so psychotic because that's not normal. That's not normal human behavior. You have to trick yourself into being this psychopathic mentality in order to really reap, in my opinion, the true benefits of sales. Because that really does come from the top of the top, the best of the best. Speaker 1 (5:43) It's so true because like nobody really knows like what your track record is. Nobody knows how many sales you made before that day. The customer knows nothing about you. Speaker 2 (5:52) They Speaker 1 (5:53) don't know your ranking. They don't Speaker 2 (5:54) know Speaker 1 (5:54) anything about you. So you can come there with good energy and, you know, just have the confidence and know your stuff. And they have no idea how well you've done in the past. Exactly. And it sounds so simple, but it's really not because… Speaker 2 (6:07) Having that conviction in your voice and that sure tone and that confidence, that energy and the aura when you just got demolished by every single person before is so hard. But like you said, they really have no clue. So you almost have to like brainwash yourself into being like, this is the client that's going to buy. And that one client that buys, that commission is going to make up for all of the no's that you had that day. All it takes is the one you can't let the other people get to. Yeah. I Speaker 1 (6:38) feel like before I get on any big sales calls, I literally am telling myself like, Hala, you're the number one person at this. Yes. You've crushed so and so. Like I always like give myself like a little pep talk. Like, listen, you've got this. You're the best expert at this. You know, when I don't come with that kind of energy, like if I'm having a bad day or just like tired or sick, I feel like it could totally go the other way. A Speaker 2 (7:03) hundred percent. I always say your energy is your currency and being sad will literally make you poor no matter what you do, especially in sales though. And that's not saying you can't be sad. We're all sad sometimes, but you do have to almost just fake it sometimes. And that's the psycho is I like, it doesn't matter. Sales does not matter what's going on in your life, what emotions you're going through. If you're having a bad day, if you're down, if your boyfriend broke up with you, Speaker 1 (7:30) like Speaker 2 (7:31) the client has no idea. They don't care. So it's like, do you want to make money or not? You can either turn it on or off. Speaker 1 (7:36) You know? Yeah. So I know that you spent a lot of your time focused on selling to women. And there's been a lot of recent reporting saying that women are better at selling than men. And you've really built your whole brand around female sales reps. And I got some stats. Female reps are 11 % more likely to win deals than men. So talk to us about why women are so good at selling. So Speaker 2 (7:59) this is what I've found is... One, women get a little bit underestimated when they hop onto a sales call. And this can be either a really good or really bad thing. Because if you don't know how to run the call, if you don't know how to establish your authority, your credibility, your respect, then you're just going to get walked all over. And then that's why some women think, oh, well, I'm just not good because they don't respect me. It's like you didn't demand the respect. So that's kind of like. the way it could go negatively if you don't know how to use your advantages to your advantage. But the best way is you get a little bit underestimated in the beginning, but then you kind of like take charge and put your foot down almost in the sale. That way they're like, oh, this girl knows her stuff. Like I respect that. So then it kind of almost becomes a positive. And that's what I train my girls on is how to use like, yes, we're going to have a little bit of a stereotype no matter who you're talking to. older women might look down on you. Younger women might look up to you. Older men might be like, oh, she has no idea what she's talking about. So using those different stereotypes as a way to actually be a plus side in sales. Also, men and the men that I've, I've trained a lot of men specifically more in door to door. They have that credibility. Like as soon as they hop on a call, they have that authority. They have a little bit more respect. And so for them, it's. more about building the softer side throughout the sales process versus girls. I teach them to do a little bit of the opposite because people already want to open up to you, Speaker 1 (9:32) you know? That makes sense. So it's like women already have natural empathy and the men, you actually teach them how to have better empathy so that they can be more like women in the sales process. Yeah. Speaker 2 (9:42) So it's kind of like a blend of the soft side, but also like maintaining that respect and credibility because that's what sales is, is it's perfectly teetering the line between let's get the deal done. This is what makes sense. Like the business side, the logical side of your brain, but then. The other side of your brain is emotions. Speaker 1 (10:02) And Speaker 2 (10:02) I always tell my students that I teach, you can't sell with logic because then a buyer is going to make a logical decision. They're going to take your logical pitch and they're going to make a logical decision, which is, this sounds great. Send it over and we'll talk about it later. That's the logical thing to do, right? Is not to spend thousands of dollars Speaker 1 (10:22) on a 30-minute call. Speaker 2 (10:24) Yeah. But what creates that buying atmosphere is using the logical side, but also pulling that emotion in order to create the buying atmosphere. So I love that. Speaker 1 (10:34) I'm going to get into the emotion part of it later with you. But first, I want to stick on this like hot girl concept, right? So like you call your Speaker 2 (10:41) sales girls, Speaker 1 (10:42) hot girls, you yourself, very beautiful, blonde, skinny. Thank you. Young, right? So do you think that looks has anything to do with your success in sales? I think. It would be stupid to say that a lot like looks have nothing to Speaker 2 (10:57) do with it. But I think that it can go, like I said, a good way or a negative way. I think you can be taken not as seriously if you're a pretty girl and you don't know your stuff. People just assume like, oh, she's just another pretty face. Like I'm not going to trust her with Speaker 1 (11:12) my business. Because what I found, Speaker 2 (11:14) especially with a lot of the girls that I would train, oh my gosh, back in my door-to-door days, I would recruit. All of my best friends from my sorority, all pretty girls. Some of them did terrible. And it's because like pretty girls haven't had a lot of rejection before. So it's like people would waste their time. And if you don't know how to do it right, it's kind of a negative. So the looks things, I think everybody has advantages and disadvantages. You just have to know what to use. Speaker 1 (11:42) But Speaker 2 (11:43) the hot girl, the hot girl sales thing that I always talk about. So that specifically has nothing to do with looks. So the hot girl mentality that I always talk about in my content Speaker 1 (11:54) has Speaker 2 (11:55) nothing to do with looks. It also has nothing to do with being a girl. There's so many guys that I'm like, you are a hot girl. Speaker 1 (12:02) So what it is, what it is, is this. I tell people Speaker 2 (12:04) that I want them to imagine like the hottest girl they know walks into a room. How does she walk in? Is she hunched over looking at her phone? Kind of like. oh my gosh, who should I talk to? Should I go stand in the corner? Or is she the girl that walks in? Her energy is just so infectious. And other people are like, oh, I want to figure out what she's about. I want to go ask her questions. Speaker 1 (12:29) So Speaker 2 (12:29) it's more about the aura and the energy that you have that you carry into every single conversation. Speaker 1 (12:35) That makes a lot of sense. So like I mentioned before, you're young, you're 23. Do you ever get people telling you like, What do you know? You're 23 years old. Why are you teaching sales? All the Speaker 2 (12:47) time. And it's so funny because I like to say I've lived 30 years in the last probably four years. So I feel like I'm like 60 years old, but I do get that. And what I like to say is I don't have kids. I don't have like, this is my thing. This is every single piece of my energy goes into this. And I also bring. a different layer of I know what works. Sales training and sales changes every single day, especially with online, how people perceive things. A lot of the sales techniques that a lot of the older sales trainers use, when I was like a sales rep, I would listen to that, try it, and get the door slammed in my face. So it's like there's a lot of little things that you just have to know like realistically would that work or not. And I think that's kind of where A lot of my content, people see it and they're Speaker 1 (13:40) like, oh, that would actually work. Yeah. And you know what? You have a track record. You've done great in sales. And here's Speaker 2 (13:46) the Speaker 1 (13:46) thing. You're a good teacher. So when I hear feedback about, or if I've seen stuff when people are kind of hating on you, I'm like, she's saying, I'm a salesperson. She's talking the right stuff. And she's doing good job teaching. Yeah. And she's able to teach it. And I think that's really the difference, right? So kudos to you. I'm really proud of everything that you've done. And I think you're awesome. Thank you. I remember I was talking to somebody and I couldn't for the life of me remember who the person was. So if you guys are tuning in and you remember this conversation on the podcast, let me know. But I remember I was telling a story on this podcast and I was talking to somebody super credible. And I was telling them how when I worked at Disney and corporate, I look much younger than I am. And so everybody used to think I was like 10 years younger than I was. And I was treated like an intern, even though I had all this experience. And I ended up leaving corporate to be an entrepreneur. One of the reasons why is because I was looked too young to be taken seriously. And the guy told me that. In business, the age you want to look like is 35. I agree. Whether you're older or younger. And to me, like, I always like remember that. I was like, okay, I just need to look like 30, 35 forever. You Speaker 2 (14:57) know, that is so funny because I always tell my friends, I'm like, I feel like girls want to look younger. I make myself try to look. older. You know, like I put my hair up, glasses on, red nails. Like I'm trying to make myself look a little bit more older because you're so right. I feel like that's like the perfect age for. respect, but also still being like somebody that people really are like, oh my gosh, like I really want to talk to her. Speaker 1 (15:23) Exactly. You've got experience, but you're still young enough to be like hungry and tech savvy. And so like 35 is the age that you want to emulate. And I like never forgot that. So when it comes to sales, I personally feel like my femininity, wearing makeup, dressing nice, grooming helps me close deals. When I was saying before, like, if I'm ever like sick, tired, or like don't have time to do my makeup or hair and I get on a sales call, I'm like 50 % chance this is not going to close. Because I don't feel my best. I don't look my best. Maybe the lighting is bad. I'm like in a hotel or something. And so I wanted to get your thoughts on that. Like grooming, men and women, what do you think matters? Speaker 2 (16:04) 100%. So the majority of the sales that I Speaker 1 (16:07) teach are like, face to face. So like Speaker 2 (16:09) you Speaker 1 (16:10) can see the Speaker 2 (16:10) other person. And I straight up tell, well, I told my girls or my guys when I was doing door to door and I tell my girls now you need to look good. Like looks do matter in a sales process. They make people want to talk to you, hear you out a little bit more, but also like yourself, when you look and feel your best self, you're going to be more open with people. You're going to have just a better energy. And that kind of comes back to the hot girl mentality of Speaker 1 (16:37) I Speaker 2 (16:38) am that girl. And when I show up, I'm going to look my best. I'm going to feel my best. And I'm going to act my best. Speaker 1 (16:44) Cody Sanchez has been on the show a couple times. And she told me that women who wear makeup make 30 % more on average. Men who have better grooming make 15%. percent more. So it's Speaker 2 (16:57) worth it. It's not about your Speaker 1 (16:58) looks. It's not about like how actually like symmetrical your face is. It's really about the grooming, a good haircut. nice clothes, white teeth, like all that kind of stuff really matters. So let's get into some more tactical stuff. I want to stick on the gender topic a bit. Talk to me about how a woman should sell to a man versus a man sell to a woman. And Speaker 2 (17:19) I'll give you some other scenarios. I love that. I guess the biggest difference is a woman really needs to establish frame super early on or else she'll lose it. And so what that basically means is you need to establish your credibility. As somebody that knows her stuff, knows exactly why they're on the call, isn't getting on the call and saying, oh, where are you based out of? Oh my gosh, I love your outfit. Oh, where is it from? It's like, no, just get to the actual point Speaker 1 (17:45) of the call first or else the rapport can actually have a negative effect on you. So Speaker 2 (17:50) I like to teach my girls to really establish that credibility early on into the pitch. And then you open up the rapport for the question-based selling. And for women, this is, the biggest part to let the other person talk a Speaker 1 (18:05) little bit more. So Speaker 2 (18:06) asking really good questions in order to get somebody to open up. And then also being super simple when it comes to closing. A lot of women try to talk a lot when it comes to the close and almost like justify why the prices are there when somebody didn't even ask. Speaker 1 (18:27) You know, they could Speaker 2 (18:28) have been able to 100 % afford it and they're like, yo, so this is the price. You know, it's because there's a lot that goes into it and blah, blah, blah. It's like, no, this is the price. Shut up. Speaker 1 (18:37) Yeah. I Speaker 2 (18:38) always say, kiss them. Keep it simple, stupid. Just shut up. So that's more for the women is really leading with that respect, getting them to open up to you and then ending with the respect. It's like a little sandwich. Okay. For the men, I like to have men. be a little bit more warm in the beginning and then leading with the credibility and then a little bit more warm at the end. So it's almost a flip-flop. Okay. Just because I think, especially if they're selling to another woman, if there's a man on the other side of the screen, they're almost like, oh, sales rep. So they have the stigma of like, oh, there's just another sales bro, sales guy. Speaker 1 (19:14) So Speaker 2 (19:15) when they kind of drop that boundary and they're a little bit more human in the beginning, it's a plus size or a plus side for the men. Speaker 1 (19:22) And how about a woman selling to a woman? Speaker 2 (19:25) Okay. So woman selling to a woman, a lot of the girls that I trained in the beginning, they're like, oh girl, like they try to go the bestie route too soon. And it comes off a little fake and women buyers have such good intuition. So it's really good to connect, but making sure