Haley Sacks: The American Dream Is Dead! The New Rules for Building Real Wealth | Finance | E419

Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha: Entrepreneurship and Self-Improvement Podcast

Haley Sacks joins Hala Taha to redefine the American dream around personal freedom, ownership, and time rather than traditional corporate loyalty or homeownership. They dissect modern financial trends like

Key takeaways

• Haley Sacks defines the new American dream as owning your time and having freedom, contrasting it with past generations' reliance on corporate pensions and lifelong employment.
• She advocates for a 'freedom fund' or 'F-U money' that enables people to leave toxic jobs or relationships without financial fear.

Main topics

• Financial freedom & ownership
• Entrepreneurship & tax optimization

Notable quotes

"The new American dream is owning your time and having freedom."

Conclusion

The episode provides actionable frameworks for building financial autonomy,

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Every person that you admire financially, Oprah, Warren Buffett, Rihanna, any of these people, first of all, they've definitely made money mistakes, but they also started the same place that you did, which was at Xero. And the only difference between you and them is that they took the time and they believed in themselves enough to learn. My guest today is Speaker 2 (0:22) Haley Sachs, better known as Miss Dow Jones. She's a finance expert and founder of Finance is Cool. Haley is here to share the new rules of building wealth and show us how to start living like a Speaker 1 (0:32) future rich person. I've worked with tens of thousands of people on their finances. And what I've realized is, you know, I can tell you anything about emergency funds and how to invest in the stock market. And it all sounds great, but you're never actually going to make a change unless you unpack your why. I'm going to Speaker 2 (0:52) say a legacy money rule and you give me your take on it. Okay. No credit card. Speaker 1 (0:57) ever. I completely disagree. You absolutely should have credit cards. Having a credit card and paying it off on time is how you build your credit score. You're an entrepreneur, taxes. Speaker 2 (1:10) What are some of the things that you feel like every entrepreneur needs to know about taxes? I think there's this idea that, oh my God, I'm an entrepreneur. I can just write off everything. This is a write-off, that's a Speaker 1 (1:19) write-off. And there's certain write-offs that make you more susceptible to be audited. And clothing is one of them. I recently switched to being an S-Corp. But also what's really important too with taxes as an entrepreneur is understanding. Speaker 2 (1:35) Hey, Speaker 1 (1:36) Ali, welcome to Speaker 2 (1:36) Young and Profiting Podcast. I'm so excited Speaker 1 (1:38) to Speaker 2 (1:38) be here. I'm so happy that you're here and that we get to hang out in person. And before we get into finance, budgeting, investing, you say that a lot of people are getting financial advice for an America that like doesn't really exist anymore. You say that the American dream is dead. And you also say that long live the new American dream. So let's start there. What is... the new American dream to you? Paint that picture for us. The Speaker 1 (2:07) new American dream is owning your time and having freedom. For our parents' generation, it was so much about being locked into these corporate jobs for, you know, 30 to 40 years. You get your pension. And then there's sort of this light at the end of the tunnel. where you're going to have that retirement and your life's really going to start when you're like 65 or whatever. But what I think is that with Gen Z and millennials, we want to enjoy our time now. We don't want to be beholden to a corporation because we know that they're not loyal to us. And we want freedom. Yeah, you talk about something called a Speaker 2 (2:49) freedom fund, which I think Speaker 1 (2:51) is like really cool. Speaker 2 (2:52) It's the ability to have money so that you can say no to things. Yeah. Talk to us about the freedom fund. Why is it so important to you as like a principal? Freedom Speaker 1 (3:01) fund, but also FU money. Oh, yeah. I love that. Yeah, which is and I'm sure you feel like that, too, because it's, you know, like you're rich where, you know, the more money that you have, the more power you have, which is why I'm also so passionate about financial literacy. Speaker 1 (3:17) you know, empowerment for women because for our, for women, like for, we couldn't have our own credit cards until 1974. I know. That's crazy. Like it really wasn't that long ago. It really wasn't. When the Knicks, I'm a New Yorker. So when the Knicks won the championship this past year, the last time that they had won an NBA championship, women couldn't have credit cards, which was so crazy. I was like, that was like a weird marker for me. Speaker 1 (3:47) But yeah, I think it's so important to have money because it allows you to walk away from things that aren't serving you, whether that is a job that you absolutely hate or a partner that you, you know, can't stand, but you feel trapped by. I have a story in my book, Future Rich Person. I asked her if I could include this. One of my best friends, Elizabeth, was in a relationship with this guy, Charlie, who is horrible. And he, but they live together. He's like a horrible. boyfriend, like actually physically pushed her around a bit. Oh my God. Just like bad news. Kept her really down. Like she just, she lost her sparkle a hundred percent, but they lived together and they had a dog and he was tall, which I feel like for women can really get you where you're like, okay, on paper though, he's got a lot of these things that I want. And also like, what do I do if I leave? Like I can't afford a new mattress. I can't afford a down payment, but. She realized like the urgency of the situation and then started to put money away in that freedom fund and got what she calls her freedom apartment, which she is still in to this day. Good for her. Yeah, it's above a gas station. It's so small, but it's the best because it's hers and she left. And, you know, that was like a huge moment in her life where she was able to choose herself. And to me, a moment of such financial empowerment that shows you that like. When you have money, it really does give you the ability to choose. Speaker 2 (5:12) Yeah. And I feel like it's important to say it's important to have that even if you're in a healthy relationship, even if things are going amazing, you should also have your own money. How do you think about like finances within relationships? Well, Speaker 1 (5:25) I mean, it's interesting because I'm in a relationship and we live together. And but, you know. What's interesting about our situation is that we actually make similar amounts, which I feel is very uncommon. Yeah. You never really make the same amount as your spouse. So because we make the same amount of money, we split rent 50-50. And I always say you should always split rent based on income versus just a percentage 50-50 because... One person might be crying into their ramen on the first of the month and the other feels rich just because money is so relative to how much you have coming in. Yeah. So for us, it works well. But I think the biggest thing is, A, to make money non-emotional in the relationship. So it's something that you can bring up in the same way where it's like, did you take out the trash? Yeah. What are you doing tomorrow? Should we go to that wedding we just got an invite to? Did you pay your half of the rent? Like it shouldn't be this thing that we're so... scared of and emotional to talk about. That I think gives it this weird power to control us. And that's about it. Yeah, Speaker 2 (6:32) that makes a lot of sense. So my boyfriend's actually six years younger than me. So I make more money than him right now. But he's going to be really rich. He's an Speaker 1 (6:39) entrepreneur Speaker 2 (6:40) as well. It's funny to me, because when I think about finances, it's like I also want to have like financial freedom. But I have friends where for me, like we're about to move in and we're going to split rent. 50-50. And like, that's okay for me. I have a lot of girlfriends that like, they'll be like, that is crazy. I would never split the rent. Like the man has to pay rent. But they're not making, those women are not making as much money as me. So I just feel like they don't understand that. It's like, well, like when you're a woman who's like the breadwinner making a lot of money, I'm okay to split the rent 50-50. Speaker 1 (7:15) It's interesting because there's all of these articles coming out and data coming out about Gen Z women who are making so much more money than their partners and pulling them along. And I actually have an adverse reaction to when women take care of men versus when a man takes care of a woman. It Speaker 2 (7:39) was hard for me. Like a part of me was like, well, I worked so hard. I want to like stock up my money. I don't want to pay rent. But Speaker 1 (7:46) at Speaker 2 (7:47) the same time, it's like, that's not really fair. The Speaker 1 (7:49) way that I look at it is people get into relationships for a lot of different reasons. Like I have friends who really are solving for a rich guy and I don't shame them for it because that's what they need to feel safe. You know, a lot of them have come from a lot of financial instability. They're not in careers where they are going to make a lot of money. And in order for them to actually. be in a healthy relationship for them healthy looks like the guy really taking care of them. And even though that maybe is uncouth and you know, every I believe, you know, every woman should have their own money, all these things. I also know that there are exceptions to that rule. Yeah. Be when you have financial freedom in the way that I have or you have, we're not solving. for anyone to take care of us, we're solving for one thing and that's love. And that is a privilege. Yeah. And it's something that I take really seriously and I talk about a lot with my partner. And it's really cool that it's like, we're not looking for anything from the other person except for just to be that emotionally supportive partner, my best friend, person I want to build a life with, but I'm not looking for them to take care of me. But that's something that is unique to our situation. Yeah. And it's Speaker 2 (8:59) an Speaker 1 (8:59) advantage because we can Speaker 2 (9:00) kind of pick. somebody who really matches our personality, who we really enjoy their time and not really have to worry about their bank accounts too much. Speaker 1 (9:07) Yeah. And that's okay to, if you're looking for something else, but in, you know, when you really prioritize your financial freedom, I think that that is an advantage. Speaking Speaker 2 (9:15) of that, like this trad wife trend Speaker 1 (9:17) is Speaker 2 (9:18) so popular and this, this trend of like being dependent on your husband and kind of glamorizing it. How do you feel about that? I Speaker 1 (9:27) talk a lot about stay-at-home spouses. I think it's really interesting because Being a mother obviously is such a big job. And a lot of women, I think, They have so much on their plates when they're taking care of kids that if they have a partner who then says, I'll take care of the money, it feels like great. One less thing off my plate. I'm taking care of the groceries. I've got to figure out the soccer practice. Like, you know, little Sam is sick. You know, all these things that I have on my plate. He's going to do the finances. What a gift. But that's the one thing that you should never give up control of. And... I think that with trad wives, it's really interesting because they make so much money. So it's this glamorization of a lifestyle that actually is a business. Speaker 2 (10:19) You're saying like the trad wife influencers. Yeah, it's like they're actually making money by being a housewife, but a normal person not filming their life is not making money like that. And Speaker 1 (10:30) I don't think that it's wrong to stay home with your kids, but I think that you need to have a spousal IRA, which allows you to put money away for your retirement. Even if you don't have taxable income, which is so important, you need to make sure that your name is on all of the assets. And you need to make sure that you're a part of the money situation and that you also have your own money, even if you are like not the earner. Yeah. That you still have money on the side that allows you to leave and to do what you want with no questions. Totally. Speaker 2 (10:58) Another trend that I see online a lot, and it's been around for a long time, is girl math. right? I'm like the number one hater. Oh, Speaker 1 (11:06) you Speaker 2 (11:06) hate Speaker 1 (11:06) girl math? Actually, like I've never bullied anyone online, but I did come after girl math and then I felt bad because the girl who started it was like, I Speaker 2 (11:14) didn't mean to like in my DMs. And I was like, girl, I love Speaker 1 (11:18) you to death. But also like this was Speaker 2 (11:20) bad. Like we do have to talk about it. Yeah, because it kind of makes like financial irresponsibility like cute. You know, and like, like, it's not a big deal to be dumb with your money and also makes women look dumb. Makes Speaker 1 (11:34) them look dumb. But it also is this feminization of being stupid. Yeah. Where it's like considered this feminine attribute to be stupid with your finances that really just keeps us so stuck. And I see it a lot on Instagram. in reels and I often will post them and be like what is this content where it's like you know a woman pranking her husband by telling him that she's going to pay the mortgage or you know going to Target and spending $200 but meaning to have just bought toothpaste and like making a reel about that because it's she thinks it's so funny and so relatable just like these moments where it's clear that the part the woman is not in financial power yeah and that she doesn't want to be and that it's like cute to not be and I just really don't think that we should glamorize it yeah Speaker 2 (12:32) and also it's like boys also make financial mistakes there's boy math too yeah Speaker 1 (12:37) I mean even if you look at sports betting and prediction markets people are getting into so much debt specifically men from that and it's never looked at the same way as when women spend you know women They tell us that we're so frivolous with money that, you know, we can't hold on to a dollar. We're buying lattes. We're online shopping. And, you know, we're so shamed. But then men will go and, you know, spend $30,000 betting on a parlay. Yep. And... It's just totally normalized. It's Speaker 2 (13:12) like really unfair to think about it that like women can spend money and for us, it's like a waste. For men who spend money on their cars and whatever it is, it's like seen as like normal. Speaker 1 (13:22) It's just crazy how much we're socialized to stand in our own way with our finances. I think that definitely happened to me. And it wasn't until what I call like my aha money moment that I really was like, oh, this isn't that hard. I can do it. Tell Speaker 2 (13:35) us about Speaker 1 (13:35) that. Well, I think that we all, you either have it or you can really manufacture it. And that's why I love money books and why I wrote Future Rich Person, because I really believe in the power of, I really believe in the power of reading. Wow, brilliant. But it's like, I Speaker 2 (13:51) read Speaker 1 (13:52) so much and it's changed my whole life. And, you know, it's like a way to really shift your mindset. So if you're someone who feels stuck in your finances and you can't really find that oomph and that. motivation. Yeah. Read a money book. Try Future Rich Person. If it doesn't work for you, there's so many other great ones out there. But mine's like really personable and funny. I'm a comedian. And so I, you know, it's definitely a page turner. Like people always message me like they read it in one day. So it's, I don't think there is like another money book like that where you would binge read it. So what it leads to is having that money, the aha money moment. Okay. And for me, that happened when I had my first full-time job and I was working for Laura Michaels who started SNL. And the first day they asked me about 401ks and health insurance. And up until that point, I had been sort of like girl mathy. Not taking my finances so seriously, assuming that, you know, my dad or a boyfriend was going to take care of it and it wasn't for me. And then, but I took my career seriously. And so when I realized that there was a tie between how I would be perceived at work and my lack of financial literacy, it gave me the motivation to then actually understand these topics. Yeah. Which then led to me realizing that I could. totally understand them. They weren't hard at all that I had been 100 % catfished by the whole thing. And that, you know, financial literacy really just requires like sixth or seventh grade math and some automation, you could be a millionaire. And I became Mrs. Dow Jones, which I obviously took it really far. But you know, it can come from, you know, when you lose your job, and you have to and you run through your savings, and you realize that you have to figure things out, or a lot of people have their money, their aha money moment when they're at a big life moment. So like maybe you're having a baby. Yeah. I see that a lot where it's like it suddenly snaps you into gear and you're like, I'm an adult. There's going to be another kid, another person relying on me. I need to get it together. Just that moment where you sort of face yourself in the mirror and you realize you can't run from it anymore. And even like I said, even if you don't have that motivation, you can manufacture it just by taking in good financial content. Speaker 2 (16:00) I want to double tap on something that you just mentioned. You felt like you were being catfished. What are the ways that you feel like the financial Speaker 1 (16:07) system doesn't set us up for success? Oh, my gosh. I mean, well, first of all. The financial system profits off of your ignorance. So they're not motivated for you to understand things. There's no incentive for a bank or for a credit card company to teach you. Because the less that you know, the more that you're going to pay in fees. And fees are what keep the whole financial system going. And fees really come from a lack of understanding. So it's like you're paying. you know, financial manager fees to manage your finances. Late fees for Speaker 2 (16:50) credit card debt. Late fees Speaker 1 (16:51) for credit card debt, fees for banks, fees for this, fees for that. And they really add up. And that all just comes from, you know, a lack of understanding that, of course, the financial services industry could work on, but instead they mask everything in so much jargon. and, you know, vests and, you know, this allure of Wall Street. And it just feels you feel so othered from the system. Yeah. That you assume you couldn't possibly be trusted to take control. And so then you hand over the reins to someone else or you ignore it. Speaker 2 (17:23) You've got this structural barrier quiz in your book. What are some of the questions that you ask people to kind of unpack whether there's like a real barrier? Well, Speaker 1 (17:32) you know, I start the book going through your money mindset. because I've worked with tens of thousands of people on their finances. And what I've realized is, you know, I can tell you anything about emergency funds and how to invest in the stock market. And it all sounds great, but