Stalingrad Of The Adriatic: The Gully (Part 3)

WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk

This episode details the grueling December 1943 fighting for Ortona and 'The Gully' during the Italian Campaign, focusing on the devastating attrition faced by Canadian infantrymen and

Key takeaways

• Farley Mowat suffers a severe combat stress breakdown during a diversionary assault but is snapped back into duty by Lieutenant Frankie Hammond, who gives him rum and redirects his focus to battalion headquarters.
• German commander Kesselring assumes full control of Italian forces after Rommel's transfer, but Hitler's micromanagement from the Wolf's Lair forbids strategic withdrawals despite units being reduced to 10-20% strength.

Main topics

• Battle of Ortona and The Gully
• Canadian First Division tactics and attrition

Notable quotes

"It's a meat grinder."

Conclusion

The episode underscores how rigid command doctrines and unforgiving te

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:02) Thank you for listening to We Have Ways of Making You Talk. Sign up to our Patreon to receive bonus content, live streams and our weekly newsletter with money off books and museum visits as well. Plus early access to all live show tickets. That's patreon.com slash wehaveways. Speaker 3 (0:24) It's hard for guys my age to grasp that nobody lives forever. Dying is just a word until you find out differently. That's trite, but horribly true. The first few times you almost get nicked, you take it for granted you're naturally immortal. The next few times you begin to wonder. After that, you start looking over your shoulder to make sure old lady luck is still around. Then, if you're still in one piece, you wonder when she's gonna scram to parts unknown. A young guy named Swale came up to us three weeks ago, fresh out of Blighty. Before he really knew what in hell it was all about, he ended up a pile of perforated meat along with seven of his men. Why him? Why then? And when will it be you? That's the sort of question you ask yourself. That, of course, was Lieutenant Farley Mowat. of Speaker 2 (1:15) the hasty peas. Welcome everybody to We Have Ways of Making You Talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland for our third episode of Stalingrad of the Atlantic. And this is the episode three, The Gully. So we've worked our way over the Sangro, over the Morro, and now we're in The Gully on our way to Autona, the road to Autona. I think in our last episode, we very much lent into the fact that this is... Well, it's a meat grinder. If you're in the situation that the British find, the Allies find themselves in, if you can't use all your elements, if you can't, if the weather doesn't play ball and you can't bring all your fantastic elements to bear that you have at your disposal, things are difficult. And they're even more difficult if you're an infantryman, because that's who has to do the fighting. They've got to fix bayonets. They've got to go in. They've got to do their bit. And we also saw... That trying to improvise your way around that with perhaps a silent attack where you don't put a barrage in first, that doesn't work either. So the options are all bad, aren't they? Speaker 3 (2:20) None of it works, apart from just losing lots of men in the process of trying to get, you know, a quarter of a mile of land. Exactly. Speaker 2 (2:27) End of the day. It's a meat grinder, Speaker 3 (2:29) you know. We Speaker 2 (2:30) followed Farley Mowat as basically he went forward and his nerve really began to, he felt like he was being sucked into some sort of void as his nerve began to desert him. Speaker 1 (2:40) I'm not Speaker 2 (2:41) judging the guy for that one bit because my nerve would have long deserted me given everything he'd been through. And he's a young man, you know, full of beans and he's finding it very, very difficult. So this is the battle to try to get to Autona, let alone the battle for Autona itself, isn't it? Speaker 3 (2:59) They're still not there, Al. Okay, they're still not there. It's just, it's crazy. You know, it starts on the night of the 5th, 6th of December. You know, a huge Speaker 2 (3:07) amount is expected of these people. Speaker 3 (3:09) Yeah. Somehow the HCPs have managed to hold on to this very fragile bridgehead that they've got. And people who've listened to the first two episodes will remember that they're on the eastern side, on the kind of Adriatic coast side of this. above the morrow they've managed to get over to the other side of the morrow so they're on the northern side now but only just you know with their fingertips effectively you know they're on the kind of eastern edge of this totally now battered village of san leonardo and during 36 hours on the 9th and 10th of december they hold off 11 counter-attacks all of which cost considerable blood to the germans of the 200th infantry regiment but also, of course, chipping away at the Canadians at the same time. And I think it's really important to remember that the Germans are predisposed to always counterattack. So you do have opportunities to wear them down. It's not just sort of, you know, hurling over shells and mortars and hoping one will land in a foxhole. You know, they will get up at some point. And when they get up... That's when they're, of course, so incredibly vulnerable, just as is the same is true for the Canadians attacking. And then can you can you imagine it? You know, Saturday, the 11th of December, new orders arrive and everyone's going, well, I wonder what they're going to be. I mean, it's very blackout. It goes forth. This isn't it? Yes. And the orders are to break out of the bridgehead and attack north. You know, plans is to launch that at four o'clock the same day, the 11th of December. They haven't got much time to. to get organised. It's just about light at that point. It's a fairly suicidal order, but actually, this is even only a diversion from the main event, which is an attack by the 3rd Brigade, and you may remember that they had been at Castel de Sangro, attacking the Faustian Meagher on the top of that castle, on the top of that very high point 1009, and they've now come over. And a third brigade are going to be attacking from the ruins of San Leonardo. And Farley Mowat just writes, once again, we were to be the goat in the tiger hunt. You know, so as you can imagine, you know, morale is absolutely tip top. Mowat is at the battalion headquarters on the ridge, which is a collapsed shed. And peering out over the sea of mud and blasted farm buildings and burnt out tanks and the flotsam of battle and shattered vines. You know, it's a scene of total desolation. And of course, made worse by the grey of a winter afternoon sky. And suddenly something moving catches his eye. So he whips out his binos, his field glasses, and he spots two huge pigs eating the bloated corpse of a mule. And he knows they'd be just as happy to be gorging on dead soldiers. I mean, what a horrible, horrible vision, don't you think? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Speaker 2 (5:50) Yeah, this whole phase is, I mean, you say it's very blackadder. I mean, the main difference is they are moving. They are making progress. It isn't a deadlock. It just feels like one if you're one of the infantry. The fact that you're four miles on, nothing's improving. The Germans aren't giving up. It's not like you put in a colossal crack and the Germans withdraw 20 miles, is it? It's that they're giving up. Ridge by ridge, phase by phase. So it's got that feeling of static battle. And you can completely see why they might. There must be a whole load of officers who did the first time round thinking, well, nothing much has changed. You know, a whole load of people, First World War, experienced people thinking, well, you know, plus ça change. Speaker 3 (6:38) I suppose I was thinking more of the kind of the orders, you know, yet again, we're going to try a sort of pointless charge over the top. Yes. It's going to get lots of people slaughtered and achieve very little. I mean, I think that's more the, I don't know. But Speaker 2 (6:50) anyway. There's no difference, is there? If you're an infantryman, there is no difference. You've got to get up out of your. Well, also, there's no alternative apart from Speaker 3 (6:57) just going, do you know what? Let's just wait till spring, which would have been weird. is an alternative, which they choose not to use. Speaker 2 (7:03) Yeah. I mean, the infantry aren't on their own here. And obviously the big change with the, the big difference with the First World War is armour is integrated in part of how you do things now. So Squadron of Sherman tanks arrive at three o'clock. So an hour before they're due to kick off. And to Mowat's horror, Kennedy orders him to accompany them on foot. So obviously finally Mowat's thinking, I'm the intelligence officer. I should be in battalion headquarters. That's my job. But he's ordered forward. After all, Kennedy is acting battalion commander. So everyone's role is fluid, right? But what he wants Mowat to do is be liaison between these tanks and the infantry. So, you know, not a daft request, but not until five that the attack goes in. And just as the HCPs expect, there are no signs for the Germans. to think, you know, the Germans aren't fooled. This isn't a diversion. I Speaker 3 (8:01) mean, this is the thing we talked about before. It's just another attack, isn't it? It's just Speaker 2 (8:03) another attack. And this is the thing we've talked about before, isn't it? In Normandy, we've talked about the Normandy battles, but, you know, we see them as Martlet and Jupiter and Epsom. If you're the Germans, you say, oh God, we're being shelled again. Here they come. You don't know which bit, which, where's the main thrust. It's just, here's a thrust. The Germans just think, right, okay. And so artillery and mortars comes crashing crashing down as a fantastic din. And Folly Merck can barely hear the engine of the Sherman that he's crouching behind because of the racket. And meanwhile... Can you imagine that? Yeah, I mean, it's extraordinary, isn't it? Baker and Charlie companies up ahead, they disappear into the smoke. Into the smoke and the fog of war and the gun smoke. But... actually, this all goes off okay, or rather better than expected because the Germans have already pulled back in this sector and because of the mud, the shelling and mortifiers are less lethal than normal, which is one of those unexpected benefit variables, isn't it? The shells bury themselves in the mud before they go off rather than exploding on impact with harder topsoil or whatever. So, you know, there's less bits flying about to snag you. Even so, Folly Mowat, when there's a salvo of shells come whooshing in, crashing nearby, he falls on his face in the mud. And at that moment... something and he breaks something snaps and he gets up he turns and he he sets off back past the ruined building where he's running away he's running away he's running away you can't you can't sugarcoat this yeah he's taking two that's what he's doing and and you know i I'm running alongside Farley Mowat in this instance. And he goes past the ruined building where Burt Kennedy is finally promoted to Lieutenant Colonel. So, you know, every cloud. And he's hiding in this ruined building. And then he keeps running along the coast road, the smashed up coast road heading south. And he's not got very far when another officer, Frankie Hammond, who's the commander of the anti-tank platoon, is coming forward with a jeep and a six pounder, stops and grabs him by the arm. and says, drink this! And it's basically rum, isn't it? Rum-laced... Rum. It's rum. Or rum-laced tea, at least, or whatever. And Moet drinks, and he says, get in the jeep now, show me the way to Battalion Headquarters. And somehow, this snaps Farley Moet out of it, doesn't it? Speaker 3 (10:37) And he gets a grip. Yeah, yeah. And he doesn't desert after all, thank goodness. But yeah, but I think brilliant of Frankie Hammond, isn't it? Don't you think? Yeah. He can see what's up. Yeah. No point making a fuss. Give him some rum and pretend it hasn't happened and turn him around again, you know. And I think he handles that very well. Get Speaker 2 (11:00) him to make himself useful. Show me the way to battalion headquarters. You know, Sully Moa has got something he's got to do. Distraction. He doesn't say, tell me how you feel. Are you okay? You're right. You're right. She doesn't bother with that. You're right. Speaker 3 (11:17) Oh, come on. Tell me all about it. Oh, God. Speaker 2 (11:19) I mean, it's all right to have a little cry. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 3 (11:24) Yeah. Don't need to say anything. Anyway. Meanwhile. Speaker 2 (11:30) Yes. Speaker 2 (11:34) Tell me about your childhood. There's not a psychiatrist in the back of this Jeep. Speaker 3 (11:45) No. Get me to BHQ ASAP. Anyway, meanwhile, General Chris Vokes, who is the butcher of the Canadian First Division, he's still aiming to reach the crossroads that he'd codenamed Cider. Yes. The one where there is now a Sherman tank on a roundabout. Yeah. And while the hasty peas are doing their diversion, General Vokes is sending both 2nd Brigade and the newly arrived 3rd Brigade into the fray. So this is, you know, we were saying that the hasty peas were a diversion and this is their, this is the main event. But CIDA. can only be reached by crossing another of these really strange narrow and wooded gullies that mark this landscape. And this one, this particular one, stretches far to the southwest of Autona and is named simply The Gully. And I can tell you it's an absolute shocker. It's basically you've got Autona just to the north of it on the coast and then you've got The Gully and it's this huge gash that just... sits across the landscape. You know, as I was saying in the last episode, there's this sort of slightly curved kind of plateau on the top between these gullies. The scoring is that the slopes, particularly on the southern side, are really, really steep. So, of course, what that means is if you're German and you're defending it, you can put your mortars right up against it. You can put your men right up against it. Nothing is going to get them. Yeah. Because the angle of the plunge of the missile can't get there. It is steep on the other side, but it's not quite as steep on the northern side. But on the southern side, it is really, really very, very pronounced. And the point is, as they're trying to attack directly across it, the Germans are completely hidden until this point. So they're just, you're looking ahead. You can sort of sense it in front of you. But if you're moving through the shattered vines and olive groves and all the rest of it and fields and farm sheds and what have you, What you can see is Autona just over there. Yeah. But then there's this kind of gash where, you know, anyone's completely hidden. And, of course, they suddenly appear with their machine guns and just cut them all down. Yeah. And there's four counterattacks the next day. Go on, keep going, keep going, keep going. And then comes down the rain again. And, you know, the Germans counterattack, then on the 13th, the Germans counterattack again, but they get nowhere. And now they're up against the 3rd Fallschirmjäger Regiment, who, like the Canadian 3rd Infantry Brigade, have also moved up from Castel di Sangro. And this is, you know, King Ludwig Heilmann's regiment that he's commanded since Sicily and is one of the most sort of gung-ho, dynamic regimental commanders. that there are and and the c4 the c4 highlanders who are part of the second brigade are just as bad as the hasty peas and on the 13th of december our devonian born padre durnford goes up to the front and finds charlie company and he offers cigarettes around and notice that most of the men are struggling with shaking hands and there's more heavy shelling and he moves on and finds battalion headquarters in a small barn Speaker 2 (15:05) Al