Therapy Role Play, Skims Underwear and Rodimus Prime

Wolf & Owl with Romesh Ranganathan and Tom Davis

Tom Davis steps into a therapist role to help Romesh Ranganathan confront his authority issues and tendency to act as a 'doormat' after a minor train rucksack incident. The

Key takeaways

• Tom Davis roleplays as Romesh Ranganathan's therapist to address his passive conflict-avoidance, coining the 'doormat' analogy for how he handles public annoyances.
• Romesh explains that Hasbro killed off Optimus Prime in the 1986 Transformers film specifically to clear the roster and sell new toy lines like Hot Rod and Arcee.

Main topics

• Therapy roleplay and assertiveness training
• Transformers 40th anniversary and toy marketing history

Notable quotes

"I think that's fair. I actually do think that's fair." - Romesh Ranganathan on being called a doormat

Conclusion

The episode successfully blends comedic roleplay and pop culture nostalgia with genuine

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Now, okay, let's get this Speaker 2 (0:01) right Speaker 1 (0:03) out of the way straight away. People, we've had complaints about this thing where I keep singing a horrible note to start a podcast. So I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. You're done with it? Yeah. Speaker 2 (0:16) I'm not going to do it. Speaker 1 (0:20) No, I'm not going to do it. Wow, you're going to stop. The problem is I've got a real problem with... With authority. Yeah. Speaker 2 (0:29) and being told Speaker 1 (0:29) what Speaker 2 (0:29) to do. I Speaker 1 (0:30) do, Speaker 2 (0:30) I really do. I like that about you, I respect you actually. Speaker 1 (0:33) I fucking will stand up Speaker 2 (0:34) and be counting, mate. Speaker 1 (0:36) I allowed myself a few seconds of feeling quite cool there, but thank you so much for bringing Speaker 2 (0:42) me right back down to reality. No, but it's quite cool that you stand up to authority. Speaker 1 (0:46) It's not, but somebody commenting is not authority, is it? But what I mean is I don't like being told what to do. That's the problem I have. But here is my solemn promise to you. because a close bedfellow of that is arrogance, Tom. Speaker 2 (0:59) Wow. Yes, it is. Speaker 1 (1:01) And I don't want to start becoming arrogant and going, fuck you, I'll do what I want. You know? To slightly misquote Rage Against the Machine. So the point is, I am not going to do it anymore. Okay, well, that's amazing. Speaker 1 (1:28) This is an advertisement from BetterHelp. Now, we've been wanting to talk about this for a while now. We're very happy to be sponsored by BetterHelp. And genuinely, of all the things that we've worked on, this is the one that feels most relevant to the people that listen to this show. Speaker 2 (1:40) Because if you're a regular listener, you'll know that this stuff comes up a lot. And the response we get when it does is always the same. People saying thank you for Speaker 1 (1:47) saying that out loud. Which suggests that a lot of people are sitting with things that they haven't said out loud to anyone. And the gap between thinking about getting some support and actually doing something about it can feel enormous. And Speaker 2 (1:58) we get that. Life is busy. It never feels like the right moment and it's easy to keep putting things off until it feels more manageable. Except they don't get more manageable on their own. That's sort of the whole point. BetterHelp exists to close that gap. And the numbers speak for themselves. An average live therapy session rating of 4.9 out of 5, based on over 1.7 million client reviews. People are not giving that rating to something that isn't working. And Speaker 1 (2:24) the practical side of it matters too. BetterHelp is built to fit around your life rather than the other way around. Different ways to connect, different types of professionals, depending on what you actually need. marriage and family therapists, social workers, counsellors. You're not just getting whoever's available. Because Speaker 2 (2:40) it turns out just hoping everything sorts itself out is not, medically speaking, a recognised treatment plan. Speaker 1 (2:46) It really isn't. We have checked thoroughly. Yeah, we have. If Speaker 2 (2:49) you've been thinking about therapy, BetterHelp can help you Speaker 1 (2:52) take the first step. Sign up and get 10 % off at betterhelp.com slash wolfowl. That's betterhelp.com slash wolfowl. Speaker 1 (3:04) Welcome to the Wolf and Owl podcast. Hello friend. We're delighted to have you. I'm the owl. I am the wolf, as our caps suggest. Yeah, Tom bought these hats. It's very nice of you to buy these hats. Oh, I like the hats. I Speaker 2 (3:16) saw that one and I thought, wow, that is my guy. Speaker 1 (3:19) And what about this hat made you think that would be for me? Well, the owl and wise ass. Wise ass. And yours is lone wolf. Yeah. So it couldn't be further from our personalities, could it? Speaker 2 (3:32) Yeah, but they don't do them. I wish that they did these and you could actually get the wording. Speaker 1 (3:35) Yours should say desperate for a pack. Thirsty wolf. Desperate for a pack. Oh, it's genius. All right, Speaker 2 (3:43) lads. Well, you running around together with your pack? Oh, fuck Speaker 1 (3:47) off, mate. Oh, no, no. Just so about... What, there's six wolves together? Is that a pack? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're full, actually. Oh, really? Yeah. No, I've... We're only just about able to get enough kills for the six of us. Yeah, well, I've been doing the whole lone wolf thing now. Yeah, Speaker 2 (4:00) no, Speaker 1 (4:00) we know that. I don't want to do this with my hands. Yeah. Ta-da! I'm the lone wolf. Ta-da! Speaker 2 (4:08) Just... All right, mate. Enough's enough, Speaker 1 (4:10) thank you. Take a moment. Okay, speaking of having a problem with being told what to do, I do think I have slight irrational, not rage, I wouldn't say it's rage because I don't act on it, but it's irrational annoyance. Yeah, have Speaker 2 (4:28) you seen Dinesh's new, your brother's new range of... His videos, yeah. So something like this happened to me today on the way here. I'd love to share it with you. Okay, well what version of Tom do you want? Speaker 1 (4:41) I'd love just a real version of Tom, if that's all right. Okay, that's fine. Just to however you want to... Speaker 2 (4:45) Yeah, okay. I was going to be a therapist. Okay, you can be a therapist. Okay. Hello, Rob. Speaker 1 (4:49) How are Speaker 2 (4:50) you, mate? Good week? Speaker 1 (4:53) Yeah, it's been a pretty good week. Oh, that sounds like it hasn't been a good week. Speaker 2 (4:57) Give me a second. Hello, Mary. It's Larry here. Yeah, Mr. Reagan, Ethan's going to run along today. Speaker 1 (5:05) I've never known a therapist. I've never known a therapist ever to run long. I've been in tears and they've gone and that's time. You but Larry's a different guy Larry's different. Okay, Speaker 2 (5:15) so it's a week was what's happened? Speaker 1 (5:17) Well on the way here. I had a thing because I'm trying to Be Speaker 2 (5:21) more punctual No, Speaker 1 (5:23) no, you know Speaker 2 (5:24) a couple of minutes late for the session. That's all well. Speaker 1 (5:26) I'm paying for the time. It's gonna be half an hour later Okay, Speaker 2 (5:30) yeah, Speaker 1 (5:31) yeah I was on the train today. Yeah, and the lady sat next to me. Speaker 2 (5:37) Okay, you were attracted to her No, Speaker 1 (5:39) okay. No, thank you Speaker 2 (5:41) So you were unattracted to her? No, I wouldn't say that either. You're indifferent? Speaker 1 (5:45) I hadn't made a judgment on that regard. I hadn't analyzed how she... Well, you Speaker 2 (5:49) come in here and you like to talk a lot about your sexual orientation. So I just thought that might be where this was going. But even Speaker 1 (5:57) if I was talking about her being attractive, that's not necessarily me debating my sexual orientation. Okay. I'm not... thinking I don't find that woman attractive, am I gay? If that feels like that's what you're getting at. Okay. Well, that's not what's happening to me. Speaker 2 (6:13) Okay. As we will say in this profession, let's go on with your problem. Show the dog the rabbit. Okay. Speaker 1 (6:20) Do they say that in your profession? Speaker 2 (6:22) It was something we're trying to be more inclusive by having sort of these sort of parlor phrases thrown around. Speaker 1 (6:29) Okay. Speaker 2 (6:31) So Speaker 1 (6:32) I'm sat on the train and the lady... By the way, I'm Speaker 2 (6:34) the dog. Speaker 1 (6:34) And the rabbit's the problem, if you know what I mean. Yes, I do get it yeah So a woman's this woman sat down next to me she had a rucksack on and She kept it on and she sat away from me, but the rucksack basically was across me So she was next to Speaker 2 (6:54) your opposite you she's Speaker 1 (6:55) next to me Speaker 2 (6:57) Okay, so the rucksack, you're offended by the rucksack? I Speaker 1 (7:00) wasn't offended by the rucksack, but I'm leaning across to avoid Speaker 2 (7:03) it. Speaker 1 (7:03) Oh, Speaker 2 (7:03) hold on. Speaker 1 (7:03) So Speaker 2 (7:03) she had her back to you? Speaker 1 (7:04) Yeah. Speaker 2 (7:05) Okay. And that made you feel less than? Speaker 1 (7:08) No. I thought to myself, this is annoying. Yeah. And in the spirit of trying to be... a bit more assertive, I could have said to her, excuse me, do you mind? Because I don't think she realised that's what was happening. Or something Speaker 2 (7:22) subtle and not quite as aggressive. You could have opened the rucksack. Speaker 1 (7:26) That feels more aggressive. Speaker 2 (7:27) No, you could say, well, you've put this in my face. You've made the rucksack. You've put it in my personal space. Let's see what you have here. Is that Speaker 1 (7:33) your professional advice? No, I'm just... Your professional advice is... If the rucksack's in my space, I'm allowed to open it. And you think that's easier than saying, excuse me, your rucksack's in my space? I'm just saying that sometimes Speaker 2 (7:47) if you're intimidated by someone or nervous. I wasn't intimidated by Speaker 1 (7:51) it Speaker 2 (7:51) and I wasn't nervous either. Conversation difficult. Sometimes a physical act like opening a rucksack. I don't think Speaker 1 (7:57) if you find, sorry to, I mean, obviously I know you've had training. I don't think if you're struggling to. have a conversation about it, that getting physical is the easier option. Speaker 2 (8:07) None of it is by physical, I mean with the rucksack. Yeah, I get that. So the woman you're indifferent to, but the rucksack you're offended by. Speaker 1 (8:14) Wasn't offended by the rucksack, wasn't indifferent to the woman, so... Speaker 2 (8:17) Run-ins with other baggage? Speaker 1 (8:20) In this job, this is just a totally unrelated question, do you have to be a good listener? Because if I might offer some feedback... One, you're making a lot of assumptions and two, you don't seem to be able to retain any of the information I've given you so far in the story. Speaker 2 (8:38) laughs Speaker 2 (8:42) Should we carry on sure what we were talking about last week and the dogs not respecting you. Speaker 1 (8:47) Yeah Okay. Speaker 2 (8:50) Now what have you done about this? Speaker 1 (8:52) So I didn't say anything. Yeah, because this is a minor inconvenience But in my head I'm running a narrative of is this woman doing this as a In Speaker 2 (9:02) a Speaker 1 (9:02) disrespectful way. Yeah, Speaker 2 (9:04) okay, Speaker 1 (9:04) right, but she clearly isn't Who would do that? It's so unlikely that she's thinking, fuck this guy. Yeah, this loser, Speaker 2 (9:12) I'm going to rub my bag in his face. I Speaker 1 (9:14) didn't say Speaker 2 (9:14) loser, but... My bag that's been on the floor of public toilets before I left. Yeah. This bag that I pay no fucking mind to, although it's on my back. I'm going to rub it in his face. Speaker 1 (9:26) Yeah, I don't think she thought that. Okay. I think she just didn't realise. Speaker 2 (9:29) That you even existed. Speaker 1 (9:30) Well, I just think she hadn't realised how far back the rucksack was coming into my space. Right. And I think... If I'd Speaker 2 (9:38) have Speaker 1 (9:38) said, excuse me, do you mind? She would Speaker 2 (9:41) have Speaker 1 (9:41) probably been all right about it, I think. If somebody said that to me, I'd be all right. Why didn't you say these words? Well, that's where therein lies the whole problem. And this is what I've been paying you for week in, week out. Well, I'm going to give you some advice, if I may. Speaker 2 (9:53) I want you to go out and be inconvenient somehow and find it in yourself. To bring up the inconvenience. Is that what you're doing Speaker 1 (10:02) now? Because... I feel like this might be one of those tests. Speaker 2 (10:05) But this is the thing. Because I'm paying. When you come here, you're often very, very clear about the things you're angry about or perturbed by. But when you're out in the street, you become a doormat. Speaker 1 (10:18) I think that's fair. I actually do think that's fair. Speaker 2 (10:20) So at some point, the shoes that are rubbing across you, people come in someone's house, you're the doormat, you're the last. piece of the boundary. Can I just Speaker 1 (10:30) stop you a second? I know that you've got excited that you finally stumbled upon an analogy that works, but I'd love you to sort of not make that the rest of this conversation. Okay, okay. Listen to me. Speaker 2 (10:41) I'm Speaker 1 (10:41) going to give you one bit of advice. Okay. Stand up for yourself. It's £150 an hour. Stand Speaker 2 (10:47) up for yourself. Yeah, sure. Speaker 1 (10:49) I mean, I'm going to be honest with you. I came into this chat knowing that. And I guess it's my fault for expecting... Would Speaker 2 (10:57) you Speaker 1 (10:57) like us Speaker 2 (10:58) to run a roleplay within the roleplay? Speaker 1 (11:00) Fuck no. Speaker 1 (11:03) Can I just tell you that's not the end of the story? Okay. Oh, wow. Speaker 2 (11:06) Okay. Speaker 1 (11:06) So I had imprinted. Speaker 1 (11:10) Do you want to wrap up? Speaker 2 (11:11) No, no, no, no, no. Speaker 1 (11:13) So I had imprinted onto this woman the idea that she's not realising she's doing it. And then you thought of having sex with her? Speaker 2 (11:18) No. Okay. Speaker 1 (11:19) No. I'd love it if you didn't try and finish what I was Speaker 2 (11:22) trying to say. Speaker 1 (11:22) Okay, all right, yep, Speaker 2 (11:22) yep. Speaker 1 (11:24) So that was good, wasn't it? Was that what you said? You stood Speaker 2 (11:26) up for yourself? That was very good. But I also, by the way, it's my job to be a doormat. So I'm a doormat underneath your doormat. Speaker 1 (11:34) And the doormats, I've not got a doormat. So forgive me. Do doormats constantly interrupt? Speaker 2 (11:41) No, but they are something of an interruption when you walk into the house. They're the interruption between I have my shoes on, I'm outdoors, I'm taking my shoes off, I'm indoors. Speaker 1 (11:52) I'm going to be honest with you. I'm having to swallow my surprise at how smart that was, the thing that you just said. Thank you. And I think you were a little bit surprised yourself. I certainly am. I might therapise you for a second. Speaker 2 (12:07) So, Ramesh. So we Speaker 1 (12:08) get to London Bridge. Yeah. I need to get off the train. Yes. The train pulls up at the station. As it will. Yeah, as it will. I say to her, excuse me, I'm getting off here. And she turns... Isn't London Speaker 2 (12:23) Bridge the last station that you finish at? No. Oh, okay. It was terminating elsewhere. Okay. Speaker 1 (12:29) Yeah, it was going on to Cambridge. I don't... What? Speaker 2 (12:33) Okay. I apologise. And Speaker 1 (12:35) then she turned to me and she went, yes, I was getting off here too anyway. Oh, wow. And then I thought, now maybe I've misjudged you. Maybe you are just a bit of a... A scumbag. Not a scumbag. A scumbag holding a bag. Speaker 1 (12:48) I get, I get,