1809: The Fish in the Water Is Thirsty | Kabir and the Departure of Gus

Wisdom of the Sages - Raghunath Cappo & Kaustubha Das

In this heartfelt episode of 'Wisdom of the Sages,' Raghunath Cappo and Kaustubha Das reflect on spiritual longing, the nature of suffering, and the profound bond between humans and animals through the lens of

Key takeaways

• Spiritual longing arises not because we lack God, but because we are unaware of our constant immersion in divine energy.
• True spiritual transformation is less about changing the world and more about shifting one's perspective.

Main topics

• The metaphor of a fish in water being thirsty
• Spiritual realization through perspective shift

Notable quotes

The fish isn't near the water. Fish is swimming in the water... And somehow it's thirsty. Like that's us.

We are made of God's energy. We're swimming in God's energy right now. We're completely immersed in God's energy. And we spend our whole lives feeling like something's missing.

Conclusion

This episode closes with a tender farewell to Gus, celebrated not just as a pet but as a spiritual

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) The fish isn't near the water. Fish is swimming in the water, made up of water, right? Sustained by water at every single moment. And somehow it's thirsty. Like that's us. We are made of God's energy. We're swimming in God's energy right now. We're completely immersed in God's energy. And we spend our whole lives feeling like something's missing. Speaker 1 (0:26) But Speaker 3 (0:26) whatever we're actually thirsty for, it's a feature of what's all. of what we're already swimming in. It's like we are standing right next to God that we could practically touch him, except we're facing in the Speaker 1 (0:41) other direction. Speaker 3 (0:42) That's Speaker 1 (0:42) how I look at Speaker 3 (0:43) it. Like I'm standing so close to God, but I'm just looking towards Speaker 1 (0:47) illusion. Speaker 3 (0:48) And Speaker 1 (0:48) even when you're looking in that direction, it's still God. It's still God, right. Speaker 3 (0:53) It's still God. So it really, I feel like this is all perspective. And perhaps our spiritual life is about shifting perspective. Speaker 1 (1:03) Not Speaker 3 (1:04) that anything is going to, not that the world changes. It's our perspective changes. Speaker 2 (1:10) Om Namah Bhagavate Speaker 3 (1:13) Vasudevaya Speaker 1 (2:02) And it really – everything got really confusing. It's Come on! Speaker 3 (2:08) 1809. My shoes have buckles on them, and I have knee socks and a strange hat. My musket is bell-shaped at the – anyway. Speaker 1 (2:20) They really have those muskets. I don't want to be – I'm trying Speaker 3 (2:22) to be grave this morning. Yes. Today is the day we're putting our dog down very soon. I know. And I'm – you know. Speaker 3 (2:32) Everybody's just filled with emotions here. My 12-year-old slept with the dog last night. Speaker 2 (2:38) Which sleeping with the dog these days doesn't mean like the dog went upstairs and slept in Turin's bedroom. It means he slept on the floor of the living room with him. Speaker 3 (2:45) Yeah, my dog can't make it up the stairs. He's in so much pain. I mentioned last week that I brought him in because he had all these open sores. And the doctor's like, you've got to put this dog down. And he's just like, you don't know what's going, they can't express how much pain they're going through. They're quite stoic. And so anyway, it's been a whole series of emotions. I Speaker 1 (3:12) was, you know, as you and I have mentioned earlier. Speaker 1 (3:17) You know, it used to be that we're always saying, I send in your questions because every Saturday was a Q &A day. Speaker 3 (3:23) Yeah. And Speaker 1 (3:24) one of the most common questions we get asked would be this question because the theme of our Shoshas and all that has so much to do with life beyond and how we're not the body. And so people would ask us all the time this kind of question about pets. And it was a question that we never really wanted to have to answer because. It's difficult. On one hand, you don't want to play God. On the other hand, you can't tolerate to see a being suffer. And the one reference that we'd turn to often was this story about Narda. Speaker 1 (4:10) who speaks to the hunter, Migrari, right? Yeah. This hunter was so sick in the head initially, Speaker 3 (4:21) right? Yeah, he would torture the animals. Speaker 1 (4:23) That he would kill them halfway. And so Narda was kind of walking along the path, seeing all these animals suffering in agony. Speaker 1 (4:35) And when he finally, you know, when this really unrefined human being of a hunter saw him, he could recognize he was someone great. You know, like he bowed down and he was kind of reverential towards him. And then Nardi gave him this instruction. He didn't say stop killing. Apparently he could sense that that was going to be too much for him to be able to process or to follow. But what he said was don't kill them halfway. Don't let them suffer. Don't let them suffer. So there's a principle there that I think – I don't know if that applies. I Speaker 3 (5:16) love you and I think – Well, before you just blow off what I just said – I'm Speaker 1 (5:22) not Speaker 3 (5:22) just blowing it off. Well, Speaker 1 (5:23) you did just blow me off. But Speaker 3 (5:26) you Speaker 1 (5:27) could apply it two ways. In other words, on one hand – It wouldn't have been brought up if he hadn't created the condition in the first place. So in that sense, it may not apply. But in Speaker 3 (5:38) another Speaker 1 (5:39) sense, it does apply, that there's an intolerance to be able to – that Assad would rather see an animal killed than to see it suffer. That element is certainly there in that pastime, and I think that aspect does apply. Speaker 3 (5:53) I think with putting a dog down, it is a type of playing God. And you're right. I think there's degrees we'd rather see. Speaker 3 (6:03) We don't like to see suffering. But then, you know, am I the God that decides his suffering ends? So it is sort of a philosophical question. And I think it's a philosophical question going on in the whole world right now. In Switzerland, you can do that. If a person's suffering and they want to die, they can die. In America, you're a murderer. So by American laws, it's not a beautiful thing. By Swiss laws, it's a mercy. So I don't know. It is something. I don't know. I've never heard Prabhupada. Prabhupada's our pramana on this, and I've never really heard him mention anything about it. And I know that we let sadhus live till their very death. You know, but, you know, sadhus oftentimes fast till death. We see that. Yeah. When the body is just Speaker 1 (6:59) not suitable anymore. Although Speaker 3 (7:02) Gus, you know, the doctor said your dog will not fast till death. He'll keep eating till his very last breath. Because that's just the way they're designed. So I don't know. So it's emotional in all effects. But I will say this, because I've been with enough animals that have left their body. because, you know, we live on the farm, and there's always chicken going down, the sheep going down. Sometimes a little too quickly. Yeah. But anyway, so, you know, we bring them in. So Gus is going to do the whole puja with me this morning. Speaker 1 (7:36) And Speaker 3 (7:36) he'll have Ganji's water. He'll have Tulsi Malas. He'll have Kirtan. And I'll be with him, and Pranapriya will be with him as he leaves his body today. Speaker 3 (7:48) And we'll be chanting with him the entire time. Speaker 1 (7:52) Oh, he's been with us from the beginning of the podcast. He's been a character. Speaker 3 (7:56) He's been a character. He's been a player on the show. But he's, again, what is the goal of Bhakti? It's to serve the Vaishnavas. And he has rendered such good services. All the saintly people have visited this house, love him, Speaker 2 (8:11) give Speaker 3 (8:11) him a lot of love, give him a lot of mercy. Swamis, saints, Prajumna loved Gus. So many people have come. Giving us blessings. Yeah. Yeah. He's like the one who translated the Srimad Bhagavatam. You know, he came here and he asked, how's Gus? So it's one of these things. It's like, isn't that the goal anyway, is to get in the hearts of the devotees? So many people are giving so much love on the message board who have been here. So if you can get in the heart of the devotees, that's a win. And let's face it, no one gets out of this life clean. Speaker 3 (8:49) Like, nothing's that beautiful, you know? We all have to leave our body. We have to leave the people we love. And between the Ganges water and the pujas and the chanting and the mantras, hey, I hope my death can be that auspicious, you know? Yeah. So anyway, so it's just mixed feelings today. Good morning, everybody. Speaker 1 (9:16) All right, shall we go on to the announcements? Speaker 3 (9:19) Yeah. I just want to say I want to thank everybody in the Bhakti House, Vermont crew. We had a great time up in Vermont. Speaker 2 (9:25) That was a nice program. Speaker 3 (9:26) It was very nice. It was super nice. Kishore Gopi, Shamya Prasad, they have a really sweet community up there. That's good. Kirtan Feast and me and Prana found a great... You know what, ChatGPT? I know AI has a lot of issues. You know what it's great for? Tell me. I'm driving from... Canaan, New York to Burlington, Vermont. Are there any beautiful places to hike or swimming holes that aren't so far off the track? Speaker 1 (9:54) Found Speaker 3 (9:54) an incredible swimming hole. Found an incredible round trip hike in the Appalachian. And it was just so nice. That's good. Yeah, Speaker 2 (10:04) that was lovely. Kastuma Prabhu is doing The Life of Sanatan Goswami Part 3 this evening at 6 p.m., right? Speaker 1 (10:12) That's right. Is it 6 p.m.? Yeah, 6 p.m. Speaker 2 (10:17) 6 p.m., and that's for our Sage Community Platform members. Go to SageCommunityPlatform.com. Speaker 1 (10:22) You get the link for that. You can join Zoom. Speaker 2 (10:24) And then our show next week will be Monday, Tuesday, and Friday again. Rago and I will be live from Florida Monday and Tuesday. Speaker 3 (10:32) Live in Florida. We're Speaker 1 (10:33) in Florida. Speaker 3 (10:34) Well, we are going on... We're going down for Henry's birthday. Get out. Yeah. Speaker 1 (10:42) We're Speaker 3 (10:42) going for Henry's birthday, but we're taking a couple days to just chill out. What Speaker 1 (10:48) number? Is it like 70 or something like that? It's 70. Speaker 3 (10:51) It's 70. We're having a party for Henry. Happy birthday, Henry. Henry's here live today. 70 years old. He's been my friend since he was... 32 and I was 22. That's where we met in Vrindavan. What Speaker 1 (11:04) day is his birthday? Is it Speaker 2 (11:06) actually on Wednesday? Speaker 1 (11:07) It's Wednesday, Speaker 3 (11:08) yeah. Speaker 1 (11:09) Okay. Speaker 1 (11:11) Happy birthday, Henry. Speaker 3 (11:12) Yeah, we love you. Speaker 2 (11:13) Who else's birthday is coming up next week is our young listener, Karuna, who's quickly growing up. Speaker 1 (11:19) Oh, how old is Karuna going to be now? Speaker 2 (11:20) I think she'll be 13. Speaker 1 (11:22) She was Karuna eight years old when she originally came on. Speaker 2 (11:25) Maybe Tulsi can confirm that. That was Speaker 1 (11:27) her. That was her. You know, in the little Zoom window, that was her name. Karuna, eight years old. Speaker 3 (11:34) Okay, let's get into our nugget. All Speaker 2 (11:36) right. Today's nugget comes from Kabir. Speaker 1 (11:40) Kabir. Raghunath, do you know much about Kabir? His Speaker 3 (11:44) friends called him Cubby. Okay. Just kidding. I don't know. I don't know much about him. I know he's a poet, a Sufi poet. Speaker 1 (11:52) Well, he's actually, he's a 15th century Indian mystic poet and saint born in Varanasi. Speaker 1 (12:02) And part of what makes him so extraordinary is he's simultaneously claimed by three traditions. Hindus. We Speaker 3 (12:14) claim him. Speaker 1 (12:14) Well, Hindus claim him as a Hindu. He was a disciple of Ramananda. You know the Ramanandis, the North Indian? Well, he was a direct disciple of Ramananda. The Muslims claim him as a Sufi saint. And his verses are enshrined in the Sikh scripture, the Guru Granth Sahib. That's like their Bible. Speaker 3 (12:40) Three religions claiming him. Speaker 1 (12:43) Yeah. He was illiterate. His poems were all compositions memorized and transmitted by disciples. And despite never writing a word, he became one of the most quoted poets in all of Indian literature. Speaker 3 (12:56) Yeah. We still quote him. Speaker 1 (12:58) Sprites today were doing it. Speaker 3 (13:00) Considering he didn't write anything. That's pretty impressive. Speaker 1 (13:02) He was a fearless critic of organized religion. So am I. He rejected empty ritual. My vote is disorganized religion. Okay. Disorganization is your theme. He rejected empty ritual, sectarian division. Speaker 1 (13:26) He preached direct personal experience of the divine accessible to everyone regardless of religion, caste, or education. Speaker 3 (13:33) Beautiful. Speaker 1 (13:34) Yeah. Okay. All Speaker 3 (13:35) right. How can you not like that? That sounds great. Okay. Speaker 1 (13:40) All Speaker 2 (13:41) right. We Speaker 3 (13:42) always... We always – you and I, I feel like we are critique – we are critics of organized religion, but we also have an appreciation for it too. Yes, both. Speaker 1 (13:56) Because we feel like Speaker 3 (13:57) if it wasn't for any organization of religion, we would know nothing about bhakti. Speaker 1 (14:02) Yeah. We'd Speaker 3 (14:03) have an idea, a vague idea of you should love God. Speaker 1 (14:06) Maybe not. I don't know if I would have that idea. I can't say for sure I would. Maybe not. I might be some political Speaker 3 (14:11) activism anarchist. You know what I mean? Living in a squat and hating the government. That could be my – I need an admission. You could have been Naked Man Speaker 1 (14:21) and the Box. You could have been like naked. Yes. Speaker 2 (14:27) All right. So Speaker 1 (14:28) what does Kabir have to say from his – the Kabir book? From the Kabir book. I guess it wasn't his book because he never wrote anything. Speaker 3 (14:36) He didn't Speaker 1 (14:36) write anything. Speaker 3 (14:37) Oh, Speaker 1 (14:38) his disciples wrote this thing. It's Speaker 2 (14:40) translated Speaker 1 (14:40) by Speaker 2 (14:41) Robert Bly. Speaker 1 (14:42) Okay, Speaker 2 (14:43) so Kabir says... Robert Bly. I have another book by him. He Speaker 3 (14:48) wrote that book on men. Men books. How to be a better man type of books. I don't Speaker 1 (14:56) know Speaker 3 (14:56) what it's called. Someone look it up for me. Speaker 2 (14:59) Okay, so he says... I laugh when I hear that the fish in the water is thirsty. You don't grasp the fact that what is most alive of all is inside your own house, and you walk from one holy city to the next with a confused look. Speaker 1 (15:16) Oh, Speaker 3 (15:16) with a confused look. Say that again, Pranpreet. This is a good one. I laugh. Speaker 2 (15:23) He laughs. I Speaker 1 (15:25) laugh when Speaker 2 (15:25) I hear that the fish in the water is thirsty. A Speaker 1 (15:28) hearty laugh. A belly laugh. Speaker 2 (15:31) You don't grasp the fact that what is most alive of all is inside your own house, and you walk from one holy city to the next with a confused look. Speaker 3 (15:42) Think about what he's saying. The fish isn't near the water. The fish is swimming in the water, made up of water, sustained by water at every single moment, and somehow... It's thirsty. Like that's us. We are made of God's energy. We're swimming in God's energy right now. We're completely immersed in God's energy. And we spend our whole lives feeling like something's missing. Speaker 1 (16:10) But Speaker 3 (16:10) whatever we're actually thirsty for, it's a feature of what we're already swimming in. It's like we are standing right next to God that we could practically touch him, except we're facing in the other direction. That's how I look at it. Speaker 1 (16:27) Like Speaker 3 (16:27) I'm standing so close to God, but I'm just looking towards illusion. And Speaker 1 (16:32) even when you're looking in that direction, it's still God. It's still God. Speaker 3