Tracie's mother was Judy

What Was That Like - True Stories. Real People.

Tracy recounts the profound impact of her mother Judy's suicide when she was seven years old, reflecting on cherished memories of her mother

Key takeaways

• Early childhood memories of a loving mother can become deeply symbolic after loss
• The absence of communication during crisis moments can lead to irreversible consequences

Main topics

• Childhood memories of a mother
• Suicide and its impact on family

Notable quotes

Every single story deserves to be heard.

When I see those every spring, I'm like, there's mom's flowers. I mean, spring's coming. Spring's almost here. We're getting warm.

Conclusion

This episode underscores the lasting emotional weight of early loss, the importance of presence

Transcript preview

Speaker 8 (0:01) Please note that this episode of What Was That Like? has a content warning for discussion of suicide. Do you remember when you were seven years old? At that age, your biggest concerns are playing with your friends, learning new things at school, riding your bike, and what to put on your Christmas list. At least that's how it is for a lot of kids. And that's pretty much how it was for Tracy, who you're about to hear from. Speaker 8 (0:44) She got along with her older brother and sister, and she loved her mom and dad. To anyone who knew the family, everything seemed fine. But one day, Tracy's mom made a decision that no one expected, and it changed their family forever. Real people in unreal situations. Speaker 6 (1:18) The eerie silence when I walked in and he's just staring at me. I Speaker 5 (1:23) was like, hello, like, are you okay? And then I had to tell him it was me. Speaker 6 (1:29) There was just blood everywhere. They're Speaker 5 (1:32) shouting, they're screaming, they're being hit by bullets, they're Speaker 1 (1:35) hitting the ground. And in that moment, I literally thought, this is how I die. Speaker 5 (1:39) Everything changed then. And I just thought to myself, this isn't happening. Speaker 6 (1:45) Every single story deserves to be heard. Speaker 8 (1:49) I'm Scott Johnson, and this is What Was That Like? Speaker 4 (2:03) The Speaker 2 (2:04) city moves fast, but your vibe, that's different. Sharper, smoother, more alive. Speaker 4 (2:18) The Speaker 2 (2:19) new Honda City isn't just made to drive, it's made to feel. The new Honda City. All new vibe. Speaker 1 (2:28) Do you want to know what it's like to hang out with MS-13 in El Salvador? Or how the Russian mafia fought battles all over Brooklyn in the 1990s? Or what Speaker 5 (2:35) about that time I got lost in the Burmese jungle hunting the world's biggest meth lab? I'm Sean Williams. And Speaker 1 (2:40) I'm Danny Gold. And we're the hosts of the Underworld Podcast. We're journalists that have traveled all over, reporting on dangerous people and places. And every week, we'll be bringing you a new story about organized crime from all over the world. Speaker 8 (2:51) Available wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 8 (2:55) You were just seven years old when your mom passed. But just from that short time you knew her when you were very young, can you tell us what was she like? Speaker 6 (3:07) From the memories that I have, which, you know, are not very many, but she was beautiful, petite. Speaker 6 (3:18) Kind, but also, you know, a force to be reckoned with when it called for it. I know she liked to do things for others. I remember making cakes and casseroles, taking those to people, things like that. Things that the Southern ladies enjoy doing. Like I said, I remember the Avon parties and things like that. That's what I like to think about when I think about her. I think about her. Speaker 6 (3:43) I guess the main memory I can always pull up is her standing in the kitchen. And it was like, I know she worked probably more than anything else, but my memories of her standing in the kitchen cooking dinner for us and making things and making pies and things like that. So those are my fondest memories of her for sure. Speaker 8 (4:06) Doing mom things. Speaker 6 (4:07) Doing mom things, yeah. The house that I grew up in after we moved there along the side of the yard were these yellow daffodils that would show up in the spring. And so it was always such a big deal to her. And I remember specifically talking about, oh, that means spring's coming. Cold's almost over. Spring's coming. And, you know, that was our bouquet of flowers. We didn't buy them at the grocery store. She would go out, pick them and bring them in. And then, of course, when I was younger, I. realized the fascination with them. So I would sneak and pick one and carry it in and give it to her, you know, when they first started to bloom and things like that. And I think now after I think about it, I'm sure if I still rode by there, I'm sure they're still popping up because the last time I rode by, they were still there. So now, I mean, that's just always something because I have so few memories of her is that when I see those every spring, I'm like, there's mom's flowers. I mean, spring's coming. Spring's almost here. We're getting warm. Speaker 8 (5:08) There was a day when you were five years old that your mom brought you into the school office before you even started school. Speaker 6 (5:16) What Speaker 8 (5:17) was that about? Speaker 6 (5:19) She wanted me to, well, probably I more or less, wanted to start school. I had two older siblings and they went to school and I was just so ready. My sister, my older sister would always like read to me and we would write and spell and we would do it as games or whatever. But I mean, it really taught me a lot because I had an older sibling, so I could already do a lot of things that some kids, you know, started and haven't even started yet. She went in and was like, she's ready to start. I think it was the birthday thing, my birthday coming late in the year kind of thing. Or like I said, it could have been the class was already full, I'm not sure. But she was like, she's ready. I remember distinctively saying, she can get past 100. She can write her name. She can write her name in cursive. She can spell. She can read all these things. And they weren't having it. Speaker 5 (6:08) So I had to wait a whole other year, which was so Speaker 6 (6:11) disappointing for a kid thinking you were that close. I was ready to start school. And she made her case, but they weren't having it. So I had to wait another year. Speaker 8 (6:20) All right. Who was in your family at the time? You said siblings. Who was there? Speaker 6 (6:26) So it was my mom and dad. And then it was myself. I was the baby. My brother, Tony, he was the middle child. He was about, I think, nine years older than me, I think. And then my sister is like 11 years older than me. So she was the big sis. And her name is Tina. And my brother's name was Tony. Speaker 8 (6:45) And your mom is Judy and your dad is Manny. Speaker 6 (6:48) Yes. Speaker 8 (6:49) Okay. Who was home on the day that this happened? Speaker 6 (6:57) My dad was at work, which he was always at work, it seemed like. My brother was at my uncle's house up in South Carolina for summer because school was just about to start. So he was getting the last bit of summer in. And that uncle being my uncle in South Carolina that was my mom's only brother. He was there. And so the only people that was home was my mom and my sister and myself. And I remember my sister distinctively being outside. We had a deck. which my dad was so very proud of, this redwood deck on the back of the house. And my sister was out there tanning, getting some sun and listening to some music as a teenager would do in the summer, I guess. And I was in my room, of course, reading a book. And that's just where we were that day. That day. Speaker 6 (7:44) I thought was the worst day of my life I've since experienced. Maybe one or two that was worse. But that day, like I said, my sister was outside tanning and I was in my room playing, reading a book. And my mom was in her bedroom. I think she'd been on the phone. For some reason, I'm just thinking that or remembering that just now. And she called me and my sister, my sister and I, into her room and said she wanted to talk to us. So we went in. My sister came in from outside. We went into the bedroom and she was talking to us. And I just remember her distinctively giving my sister her wedding rings and her watch. And then, you know, told me here you can have my jewelry box, which obviously contained the rest of what she thought was prized jewelry and whatever else. And, you know, I was six, seven. I didn't think anything about it, really. And so my sister was like, OK, well, you know, thanks, whatever. Speaker 8 (8:46) Now, at age seven, as you mentioned, you didn't know what it means when someone starts giving personal items away. Speaker 6 (8:54) Absolutely. Speaker 8 (8:55) Do you think Tina had any idea? Speaker 6 (8:58) No, this was 1982. People didn't really talk about that. And I'm not exactly sure what my sister thought in that moment. But I have a phone call with her tomorrow, and I'm going to find out exactly what she thought in that moment. Because when I called her to let her know about the book, and I said, I want to get your feedback on your part. I mentioned you numerous times because you're my sister, and that's my story. But I want to know, you know. what did it cost you that day when that happened? And she was just stunned into silence. And she said, sis, that's going to take me a couple of days because nobody's ever asked me that. And then I was just, sorry, I just got chills just thinking about that. Like nobody has ever asked my poor sister what kind of effect that had on her. So I'm looking forward to that conversation with her tomorrow. So I'm not, I can't speak for her and what she thought, but I can absolutely assure you that nobody back in 1982 thought that someone giving away their prized possessions was a big red flag, as we know today. Tina left the room after that, and it was just me and mom in there. And I remember she got up and she walked around to the side of the bed and I was still there. And she said, well. Speaker 6 (10:15) She looked at me and she said, I've got to go away for a while. And I said, well, take me with you. And she said, I can't. Speaker 6 (10:27) And of course, I was upset and pouting and I don't remember what she said after other than to rush me back to my room or send me on my way or whatever. And so that's what I did. I went back to my room, shut the door, went back to read my book, what I was doing. My sister was already back outside. Speaker 8 (10:47) I would imagine since then, you've thought about the fact. That this was the last conversation you would have with her and you didn't even know it. Speaker 6 (10:59) Exactly. You know, and I would like to think that she said, OK, we'll go back to your room. I love you. I'd like to think that she said that, but I don't know for certain. But, you know, she used the last 10 minutes that she had left on Earth to give me something that meant a lot to her. Speaker 8 (11:19) I guess I had not been in my room for very long Speaker 6 (11:22) after that. And I heard a loud bang. Speaker 6 (11:27) And I just thought, she's dropped something, knocked the lamp off the table, and there's something. So I come out of my room, go over there, jiggle the handle, it's locked. Mom! Mama! You know, and about this time, my sister comes up and it's locked and she can't get in. Again, not exactly 100 % sure what she's thinking in that moment. But those are the old, old Tommy doors with the little things on the knobs. So she instinctively reached up and grabbed a bobby pin and opened the door. And when she opened the door, that's when I saw my mom at the foot of the bed. Speaker 6 (12:06) on the floor. And I really didn't know what to think or what had happened, really. And she instinctively just shut the door right back. And she took off. She's like, no, no, no, no, don't open the door. I got to make a phone call. And she started making phone calls. Speaker 8 (12:29) What was going through your little child mind at that moment? Do you have any idea? I Speaker 6 (12:36) had no idea. I had absolutely no idea. Because at that young of an age, I mean, I wouldn't say I was sheltered. My dad let us watch scary movies and things like that back then. I wouldn't say that I was sheltered, but I mean, I really had no idea. Speaker 6 (13:00) In my memory, the first person I remember seeing is my mama, my dad's mom. And that was our name for her, mama. I remember seeing her there with her purse and her glasses. And I remember talking about what she had on. I just threw on some clothes and came right over. And again, me not knowing what's going on, but I knew that whatever had happened was really bad. And I remember thinking. How stupid is that? Is she's talking about what she's wearing? Like something's really wrong with my mom. And why does that matter? And, but that's the place that your, your six or seven year old mind takes you is. And so I do, I remember several comments from that day that years later, my dad was like, I'm so sorry. He said, I didn't realize that you remembered so much from that day. Speaker 8 (13:50) And of course your dad came from work. Speaker 6 (13:53) Yeah, I