Why Getting Sober Isn’t Enough: Trauma, Culture & Recovery | J. Carlos Rivera

We're Out of Time

J. Carlos Rivera, founder of Generation Red Road, joins host Richard Taite to discuss the profound complexities of addiction recovery within

Key takeaways

• J. Carlos Rivera has maintained over 22 years of continuous sobriety through a combination of faith and cultural connection.
• The 'Red Road' approach utilizes indigenous medicines such as sage, cedar, and sweetgrass to address spiritual needs alongside physical recovery.

Main topics

• Indigenous recovery models
• Historical and intergenerational trauma

Notable quotes

If we don't work on those deep-rooted issues... then eventually we will relapse again.

Conclusion

Long-term recovery from addiction requires a holistic approach that he

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:00) We could get rid of the alcohol and drug. We can get rid of it, go to a treatment center, get clean and sober. But if we don't work on those deep-rooted issues, which is the fear, anger, guilt, shame, if we don't work on those that are inside, then eventually we will relapse again. We will hurt. It will hurt so badly. Speaker 2 (0:40) If someone has a problem with substance use disorder, please call One Call Placement. That's 888-831-1581. And if we can't help you, we'll make a referral to someone who can. Please, we're out of time. One Call Placement is affiliated with Carrera Treatment Wellness and Spa and One Method Treatment Centers. Speaker 3 (1:00) Before we start the conversation today, I want to deliver a personal message. Every day, families across America lose someone they love to an overdose. That's why I've partnered with the CDC Foundation through their COPE, Community Overdose Prevention Efforts Campaign, and committed to matching every donation dollar for dollar up to $25,000. I've spent my life helping people recover from addiction, but if we can get to the place of prevention first, this would help save so many more lives. I hope you'll join me in supporting the CDC Foundation's overdose prevention work at cdcfoundation.org slash cope. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Today on We're Out of Time, we sit down with Carlos Rivera, whose life and work have been shaped by personal challenges, cultural heritage, and a deep commitment to healing Native and Indigenous communities. Carlos has spent decades addressing addiction, trauma, and wellness in tribal communities, drawing from both his lived experience and professional expertise. In this conversation, we explore the intersection of historical trauma cultural identity, and recovery, and the lessons all of us can learn about resilience, hope, and real healing. Carlos, thank you for joining us today. For people meeting you for the first time, what is Generation Red Road, and why did you feel called to create it? Speaker 4 (2:36) Yes, thank you, Richard. Generation Red Road, it was created out of necessity. You know, during my career in national trainings, specifically for the Native American community here in America, Red Road is a concept that came out of a vision. Speaker 4 (3:04) generations before I arrived here from a medicine person who had a vision, who had this vision that there was a path that the Native American people can achieve, you know, during their walk in life to live a better life. And so during that time, there was a lot of losses within our Native American people. We lost our land. We were massacred. Alcohol became an answer for the pain that our communities were feeling. And so during this time, Black Elk was the medicine person's name. He had this vision of mending the hoop. is what he called it, which also, you know, we're talking about the Red Road being a path that our Native people can walk on. And on this path, it's a path of healing. It's a path of sobriety, language, culture, spirituality. And so, you know, this vision came generations before we all arrived. Speaker 3 (4:28) What was the medicine that he was using? Speaker 4 (4:31) Well, it's a deeper understanding when we say medicine. We're referring to our indigenous medicine. We're referring to the natural plants that come from Mother Earth. Sage, cedar, sweetgrass, natural tobacco, and many, many more. And so these individuals who we call medicine people, they have a vast knowledge of not only that, but also the spiritual connection. There is a Western concept to the word medicine. You know, that's taking prescription medication. You know, that's going to your doctors and receiving medical care for some physical problem that you're experiencing. That's the Western concept of medicine. When I say medicine from an indigenous perspective, we're referring to spirit. We're referring to sage. We're referring to natural plants that have helped our people. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you're ingesting it. It also means that you're clearing your space around you, that you are, you know, you're also bringing it. close to your body. And so those are the spiritual medicines that I'm referring to. And so when we talk about medicine people, they have that vast knowledge of the indigenous medicines that we include when we are working with our people in the mental health field. Because if we're only bringing in the Western concepts and we're bringing in Western concepts into our indigenous world, it's not going to work. Speaker 3 (6:24) Thank you for explaining that to me. We use sage all the time, Okne. Usually when I leave a room, everybody's saging the place. Speaker 4 (6:34) Yes. Yes. Probably a couple of times. That's right. That's exactly right. You know who else Speaker 3 (6:42) was very into Native American culture was Phil Jackson. Do you know who that is? Who's Speaker 4 (6:52) that? Speaker 3 (6:53) He was the greatest living basketball coach. Speaker 4 (6:57) Oh, Phil Jackson. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So after, you know, after multiple years of traveling throughout Indian country, primarily using a 12 step model. And so this model, I used it. It helped me in my early years of recovery. which by the way, I have 22 years this year. Congratulations. Yes, thank you. And so, you know, traveling and sharing that message of 12-step, but using a Native American approach to it, it helped. It definitely helped. And it continues to work and help our people. But also what I learned is that there's not one size fits all. And I've encountered many Native people, including myself, that, you know, that 12-step, it only got me so far. And not to take away from what it does and what it can do for many people. But in my personal walk in recovery, I needed something else to help me dig deeper into my childhood, dig deeper into the intergenerational trauma. that is also within me. And so in 2017, I had the blessing and I had the honor to learn from one of the originators of what we call Red Road. And his name is Gene Thin Elk. And so Gene Thin Elk originated this model called Red Road Approach. And that was out of his own necessity for healing and not only in his personal life, but also intergenerationally. And so 2017, I was able to learn from him and spend some time with him. And the message that I got at that time was to, I need the next generation to carry these messages on. Who Speaker 3 (9:09) is this man? Was he a therapist? Speaker 4 (9:12) No, Gene Thin Elk, he's a spiritual man. But he also worked over 30 years at the South Dakota State University in Vermilion, South Dakota. And so he was also an educator. And so with these spiritual teachings, he was able to create a product, a workbook, I guess, for lack of a better word, to be able to share that with our Native communities to help them heal. from addiction and mental illness. And so that was something he did for his whole career. And so in 2017-ish, I was able to, like I said, sit and learn from him and also kind of formulate my own ideas in the work that I've done and in my personal healing to be able to start this nonprofit called Generation Red Road. which is a platform to deliver what we call Red Road Teachings. Speaker 3 (10:24) So really what it is, is it's your protocol for substance use disorder. Speaker 4 (10:35) Correct. Speaker 3 (10:35) Okay. I love that. That's your program. Okay. You know, I've had a lot of experience, like I said, for 20 years treating this population. It's the hardest population to treat that there is, Speaker 4 (10:51) as Speaker 3 (10:52) far as I'm concerned. And I would know because I've been doing this a long time and I've given back 10,000 people back to their loved ones. So I know for a fact. based on my experience. And it's not anecdotal at this point. It's field research. Okay. Because I've been doing this for so long. If there was a study, they'd be using my data to inform their study. So this is field research at this point. Okay. And let me tell you what I found. The tribes that have the casinos versus the tribes that don't. The ones that have the casinos, if you're getting 50 grand a month or whatever it is you're getting, okay, and I think one of these guys was. This guy went to 36 treatment centers. Speaker 4 (11:41) He Speaker 3 (11:41) can't get sober. He's stuck in it. He's never even stayed longer than a week at these treatment centers. So we get him and he stays for the full 30 days and we try to keep him for 120 minimum because we do the research and you know, we. This is not like we're bereft of talent. My people have got between 10 and 30,000 hours of client-facing treatment experience. So these people don't think they know. They know they know. He made it the full 30 days. Now, he didn't stay sober. And we haven't heard from him. We heard from the person who referred. And we were depressed over that result. Speaker 4 (12:32) We Speaker 3 (12:33) were, and I was beside myself. Because this is how I get my self-esteem, right? By giving people back their loved ones. And I wanted to know where the failure was, why we couldn't extend this guy, right? And I'm talking to my clinical director with this guy who referred him, who is a liaison for treatment centers and the reservations. Speaker 3 (13:04) And the guy stopped me in my tracks and he said, what the hell are you talking about? This is the first time he's ever stayed longer than a week at a treatment center. Speaker 1 (13:14) We're Speaker 3 (13:15) sending you everybody. Speaker 2 (13:16) That was the Speaker