The Lotus Eaters Episode 8: Home and Homelessness [unlocked]

Very Bad Wizards

In this episode of The Lotus Eaters, Tamler and David analyze Books 15 and 16 of Homer's Odyssey, focusing on the long-awaited reunion betwe

Key takeaways

• Eumaeus acts as a crucial moral compass, demonstrating the virtues of xenia (hospitally) that influence both Odysseus and Telemachus.
• The theme of homelessness is central to the episode, personified by the prophet's son and Odysseus's long period of wandering.

Main topics

• The reunion of Odysseus and Telemachus
• Themes of home and homelessness

Notable quotes

After many years of agony and absence from one's home, a person can begin enjoying grief.

Conclusion

The episode offers a profound look at how shared suffering and the pra

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Dear listeners, thank you for joining us on our voyage into Homer's Odyssey. You're listening to The Lotus Eaters, a 12-part series on Homer's Odyssey that was funded by our generous supporters over at patreon.com. It's because of that support that we're able to release this series for everyone. If you'd like to join them in supporting us, please head over to patreon.com slash verybadwizards. One of the benefits will be that you'd get access to all of The Lotus Eaters at once rather than having to wait every week for a new episode. episode to drop, but you'd also get access to hundreds of hours of other bonus content and Zeus would smile down upon you for your generosity in supporting us. So thank you for listening. Let's get to the episode. Speaker 2 (1:24) Welcome to another episode of The Lotus Eaters. The Speaker 1 (1:28) Lotus Eaters. Speaker 2 (1:29) So we are today going to be discussing books 15 and 16 of The Odyssey. This is, I guess, kind of builds up to the reunion of Telemachus and Odysseus. They finally will meet and eventually... Telemachus will recognize Odysseus, but there's so many beautiful scenes in these two books. Yeah. What did Speaker 1 (1:55) you think of these Speaker 2 (1:55) overall? I Speaker 1 (1:57) really liked them, man. You know, it's a buildup. And because I only have a vague notion of what's going to happen with the suitors, you know, like I know broad strokes what happens. I'm enjoying like this sort of tension building. in these scenes and like that emotional relief when the son and the father finally recognize each other. And like, I felt emotions about what it must be like to have never known your father and to have never seen your son. And he's in disguise. He knows, but the son doesn't know yet. And it's like, it was great. I loved it. Speaker 2 (2:26) Yeah. And there's a little bit of kind of awkwardness when Eumaeus kind of embraces him for the first time and he gives the simile of like it's his own father. And it's like in some ways he has been more of a father to Telemachus than Odysseus has. Absolutely. And Speaker 1 (2:42) he calls him grandpa, which is really sweet. Speaker 2 (2:44) Very sweet. Yeah. I think there's a bunch of beautiful scenes. I think the scene with Odysseus and Eumaeus when he listens to Eumaeus' story as they're kind of drinking wine really late at night and enjoying the grief that they get to express, as they put it, is so beautiful. I think the stuff at the beginning with Telemachus maneuvering his way to get home out of Sparta is kind of cool. Yeah. And then there's just a lot of weirdness. Like they pick up this son of a prophet on the way who's on the run. He's Speaker 1 (3:18) like, he's like, gotta get the hell out of Dodge, you know? And, uh, totally like, does that guy make any more appearances? Like I have to know. Yeah, he does. Okay. Yeah. I Speaker 2 (3:27) think so. Yeah. But nothing big. Cause Speaker 1 (3:30) you think with like, uh, stories that are this old and have been told for this long. that you might just have like vestigial characters who like once played a role, but now they just sort of pop in and nobody knows why they're still part of the story. Speaker 2 (3:43) Yeah, maybe. But I think there's always, I would say, thematic relevance. And that guy in particular keeps talking about homelessness and how that's like, that's a terrible fate. And then that's exactly what Odysseus says when we cut to him in the next scene with Eumaeus. So I think there's definitely some parallels. between, you know, him and Odysseus. Just he's at a much earlier stage than Odysseus was. Speaker 1 (4:07) Yeah, totally. Like the biggest thing I was going to say about theme-wise is like the notion of what home is. Like what does home mean and what is it? And Eumaeus, of all the people, is like probably the most at home. Yeah. Even though he's a slave who was sold, but he was sold as a young boy. And so this is all he knows. So he's almost like a bedrock. home whereas everybody else is yeah feeling unattached i don't know if you've ever felt that way like i luckily never moved we didn't move a lot i think we moved once like when i would go to college there's always home for me i always consider my parents house in california home but i know what it's like to be in that sort of in between where you're not quite sure what home is and that's an uncomfortable feeling yeah Speaker 2 (4:49) totally and then the feeling of being homeless i think is both literal, and I think that is like a distressing thing, but it also signals something that you're lacking, some deep connection with your roots. And, you know, this is what Odysseus has been struggling with for so long now, at least since he got to Calypso's Island. And we're starting to see that he's very gradually starting to build connections back to his home. But he still can't help. lying and disguising himself maybe more than he should. But this is really, I would say, like a meditation on exactly these themes, like that theme especially, what is home. Speaker 1 (5:33) Yeah. The other thing I was going to say is it really felt to me like this is picking up Temelikas' the first four books, where I almost feel like these are his books too. Like it really is a develop. You see him develop morally, like in terms of his character. He's just matures and he starts making decisions, you know? Yeah. Speaker 2 (5:54) And there's actually like a little moment where he even kind of stands up to his dad. Yeah, exactly. Speaker 1 (5:59) Totally. Speaker 2 (6:00) And yeah, you can see his head throughout very hospitable. Like he welcomes that. He's doing it right. Yeah. And he's he doesn't make Odysseus who he doesn't know. Is his father get out of the chair and like all of the things. Dude, Speaker 1 (6:14) you just made me think that Odysseus wasn't there. We've talked about how he didn't have like a father figure. He's been basically raised in a house of suitors. And how would he even know what to do? And now, like, I'm realizing Emmaus is the one who showed him what to do. Emmaus's hospitality is the hospitality that Telemachus is showing. Speaker 2 (6:32) Yeah, that's right. And he was like that even when Athena came disguised at the very beginning of the book. So it's got to be Emmaus. He didn't learn that from this trip. He learned, I think, yeah, like how to do it maybe in the more kind of formally proper way. But I think like, yeah, it probably is Emmaus that gave him the heart to want to do those things in the first place. Exactly. Speaker 1 (6:53) Like leading by example. Because you get the sense that Emmaus is such a charitable host, even though he's in a position of low power. Yeah. It's like that's his domain and he cares for people in his domain, like the little outskirts with the pigs. Speaker 2 (7:06) Yeah. And then you see that even though he is a slave, he was bought as a young child, like as almost like as a kind of a mercy and then raised by Odysseus's mom along with the sister. who we just learn about and I don't think we'll ever Speaker 1 (7:21) hear Speaker 2 (7:22) about again. And she said that the mother treated him almost as an equal, just a little less. She said, Speaker 1 (7:30) tiny bit Speaker 2 (7:32) less. I'm a slave, you know, like cut her some slack. Speaker 1 (7:37) Yeah, Speaker 2 (7:38) it's really cool, I think. I think you get some good suitors stuff, too. You Speaker 1 (7:43) get a lot of concerns about loyalty. There's this big unknown for Odysseus and Telemachus. They want to know who's going to be loyal to them, which Speaker 2 (7:52) makes Speaker 1 (7:53) sense. Well, I would push back just on the Telemachus part of that. Speaker 2 (7:57) Like, I think Odysseus, that's a big, like, when he's coming up with his plan and it's like a kind of a heist film, he's like, okay, you put the weapons in the storeroom and you... Totally. Speaker 1 (8:07) You could see the rising action in a movie already. Speaker 2 (8:10) Yeah, totally. It has a very kind of almost Ocean's Eleven quality, except he's kind of thinking of it on the fly. He's like, tell them, oh, I put it away from the fire. No, tell them that you guys get drunk and then you'll hurt each other. But then he's like, but first, you know, we got to go test everybody. We got to test to see if the slave girls are being loyal to me. to Penelope or not. And then we have to go around and test all the slaves. And this is where Telemachus says, look, yes, we can test the slave girls, which actually is interesting, but let's get this moving. So I think he's in planning mode, but he's not yet in fighting mode. And I think the testing is part of that, is that he's using testing maybe as a way to postpone things a little bit until he can get to, or maybe it's out of just fear of. fear of lack of recognition. So like it could be either. But Telemachus is like, I don't want to go around like the countryside trying to find every person in testing. Speaker 1 (9:03) Yeah, I got the sense that Telemachus was like, dude, like I know you've been gone 20 years, but like let me just remind you this would be very like long and inconvenient if we were really going to go to each person. Speaker 2 (9:15) Yeah. I love you. I haven't seen you since I was an infant, but I'm not looking to do it. Maybe not Speaker 1 (9:22) 68 dudes. Speaker 2 (9:28) I'm not trying to like walk the Appalachian Trail to see if some herdsman still is loyal to you. Speaker 1 (9:35) So, yeah, any other thing you want to say about the themes here? I think that's it. I mean, there's just like. Just to say again, the tender moment of reunion is like, to me, was the emotional center. Even though I don't think it's the overall theme, like that's what, like I went back just to read that part, like when they embrace, you know? And Speaker 2 (9:54) the little, the simile, and then they just start wailing, you know? Of course Speaker 1 (9:58) they do. Speaker 2 (9:58) Yeah, but it's like, yeah, when we get to that, I want to read that simile because it's kind of beautiful. All right, well, let's get into it. So we open in Sparta and Telemachus with a little nudge from Athena, but he didn't need it, really. He wants to go home. So he wakes up Nestor's son, and he wants to leave, but Nestor's son's like, no, you can't leave. You've got to wait for Menelaus. So then he asks Menelaus. He tells him that he wants to leave. Menelaus is like, we can go by and... pick up treasure from like all these towns. They'll give you the best gifts. And Telemachus, I think this is like, he's really handling this with class, this whole interaction. And I really like what Menelaus says. He says, Telemachus, I will not keep you here if you are truly desperate for home. I disapprove of too much friendliness and of too much standoffishness. A balance is best. I love that. To force a visitor to stay is just as bad as pushing him to go. Like that's the golden mean shit. Speaker 1 (10:58) Totally. This is like a very Aristotelian character based like vibe to this. I wanted to ask you in what Athena tells him. Yeah. She tells him like, hey, but just be careful. The suitors are like hiding to like ambush you and kill you. I forget now. Did he know that already? Speaker 2 (11:16) I didn't think he knew it, but he might have suspected. That's like a crucial. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1 (11:21) Like that's the one piece of information that like. gives him the upper hand, I think. Speaker 2 (11:26) And that's just reminding me that in the last books, when Odysseus wakes up on Ithaca and then is like, what? You sent him to Sparta? Like when the suitor was going to wait to kill him? And she's like, no, don't worry about it. And maybe she was like, oh shit, like to-do list. Like go warn Telemachus. Speaker 1 (11:47) Like maybe Speaker 2 (11:47) that was really good that he freaked out like that. Speaker 1 (11:50) I'm sure he'll be fine. Speaker 2 (11:54) Stop it, Odysseus. I'm insulted that you would even... Speaker 1 (11:58) Oh, fuck. Speaker 2 (12:00) Hopefully he hasn't left yet. You can see Zendaya running in her Looney Tunes. Speaker 2 (12:13) Like the roadrunner. By Speaker 1 (12:15) the way, there's a Looney Tunes moment when they describe how the Phoenician woman dies by being like smacked against the side of the ship. I was like, oh shit, she's just smacked against the... You Speaker 2 (12:28) know, I'm not saying she had it coming, but... Speaker 1 (12:30) Even Athena says you know how women are. Yeah, Speaker 2 (12:33) so first they give him gifts, which is... As I'm sure every reader who's made it this far can tell, like a huge thing. And Menelaus gives a gift that, you know, it's a... solid gift. It is a bowl of silver circled with gold, but the main thing is Hephaestus made it. Hephaestus made Achilles' shield in the Iliad. If he makes it, it's the best. Speaker 1 (13:00) This bowl, you can drop it. You can eat your cereal for 20 years and it'll never break. Speaker 2 (13:06) It's like, what's his name? Tori Hanzo, the sword. Yeah, exactly. Speaker 1 (13:12) Tori Hanzo. Speaker 2 (13:14) But then Helen, gives him something that she crafted herself for his bride you know when he when he gets married and she says i made it myself and she's like glowing when she says that and you know she's been so affectionate slash a little bit maybe milfy cougary maybe to telemachus For the first time ever, like I said, I've been reading this for 16 years. I was like, did Odysseus and Helen maybe back in the day, Speaker 1 (13:48) you know? Yeah. Makes sense. They seem to be like the, you know. Speaker 2 (13:52) The smartest. The Speaker 1 (13:54) smart ones, the best looking ones as described. Speaker 2 (13:57) Well, yeah, I shouldn't say the smart one because I think Speaker 1 (13:58) Penelope Speaker 2 (13:59) is the smart one. But, yeah, they have a kind of deviousness that is, you know, maybe just one night they got drunk, a little too much wine, and, you know. Speaker 1 (14:09) Dude, but when the translation says, then Helen's lovely cheeks flushed as she moved in close, I was like, yeah, it's horny. That's Speaker 2 (14:16) what Speaker 1 (14:16) I mean. But she Speaker 2 (14:17) thinks he looks like Odysseus. Yeah. It's probably just. Speaker 1 (14:21) I was going to say, it's probably just us. Or it's just us. Yeah. So Speaker 2 (14:24) then he does do like a little itty bitty lie to Menelaus. So Menelaus says, you know, just give my best to Nestor. And Telemachus says, yeah, oh, sure. Definitely. We'll definitely tell him that. But he already knows, I'm sure, that he's not going to want to go to see Nestor. So I think, you know, that just shows that's a little baby Odysseus, you know, trying to come out like the tactful thing, but also not necessarily. the truthful thing. Speaker 1 (14:50) Right. Speaker 2 (14:50) Yeah. Speaker 1 (14:51) What's with the birds, by the way? Okay, Speaker 2 (14:53) yeah. So an eagle comes by right now and he's got this white goose clutched in its claws. That's a tame goose, which... Speaker 1 (15:01) Yeah, it was caught from their yard, so it wasn't like a wild goose, I guess. Speaker 2 (15:04) But remember this because this will come back. This is the first thing that will come back in book 19. So just, that's all I'm going to say about it right now. But, yeah. remember it and it's interesting so then uh nestor's son is like what was that yeah that seems like an omen you know and menelaus it says favorite of aries wondered how he ought to answer But Helen cut in first and said, now listen, I will make a prophecy. The gods have put it in my heart and I believe it will come true. Just as the eagle flew down from the mountain where he had his home with chicks and parents seizing this tame goose, so will Odysseus, who has been gone so long and endured so much, come back and take revenge. And then she says, like, indeed, he's already there, like, planning this. And so, like, one... thing that's so interesting to me about that is it's another thing like with arte and alcino is like the women kind of take charge while menelaus is like huh you know like well