Legally Brunette: Lindsay Clancy & Caleb Flynn Updates

Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge

The hosts examine recent legal developments in two high-profile criminal cases: the Lindsay Clancy mistrial hearing and the Caleb Flynn murd

Key takeaways

• Defense attorney Kevin Reddington is now questioning the physical evidence in the Clancy case, including blood patterns and body temperature.
• The holdout juror in the Clancy case, Michael P. and Desronville, has faced significant public harassment and doxxing following the mistrial.

Main topics

• Lindsay Clancy mistrial updates
• Caleb Flynn murder trial

Notable quotes

A man can fail as a husband without being a murderer.

Conclusion

The episode provides a detailed look at how evolving legal tactics and

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. I'm Melissa Jeltsin, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police wrote off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge. You Speaker 6 (0:19) never know who that devil is because he's wearing a disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform. Speaker 3 (0:24) And you can get access to all episodes 100 % ad-free with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to iHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Lisa, tell them about our new show. Speaker 5 (0:45) We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Iwano. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa DiGiulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of New Shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 4 (1:14) I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The true crime comedy podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed him. What? I could talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper, like me. That's Speaker 1 (1:31) why I had to make yapping Speaker 4 (1:32) a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 5 (1:44) Hi, this is Kylie Brakeman, Angela Speaker 4 (1:46) Geratana, Jeremy Colhane, Patrick McDonald. And Speaker 5 (1:48) we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists podcast. The Speaker 4 (1:52) improvised character comedy podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. Speaker 6 (2:06) He gets right up next to the microphone. Speaker 5 (2:08) I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. Speaker 6 (2:12) You've never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Speaker 7 (2:17) Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 1986, a man named Scott Macklem was killed in broad daylight. Police quickly found their suspect. Prosecutors convicted him. But now, almost 40 years later, I'm reexamining this case. Really Speaker 6 (2:40) didn't believe any of it was real. And I was like, well, they're going to figure out this is not me. They're going to do their police job. Speaker 7 (2:47) Has the wrong man been in prison this whole time? Speaker 7 (2:51) Listen to Examined, The Backfire Effect on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 4 (3:02) Did you think you were the only one? Like no matter what you did, it was never good enough for your mother. I'm Jennifer Arnese, and this is the Black Mother Wound Podcast, where we unpack and heal from the very first relationship that shaped us. We rush to accommodate other people when we have been hurt and our hurt has not been healed. Listen to the Black Mother Wound podcast from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carrie Champion, and in this new season of Biggest Rivalries of All Time podcast, we take you back to the very first rivalry of the WNBA. The Comets were the real deal. I mean, come on. Speaker 6 (3:45) The Liberty was just tough. Oh, God. Speaker 4 (3:48) The New York Liberty versus the Houston Comets. When we hit the floor, it was... Hot, heated fights, elbows, competition, trash talking. Who is the better team? People lie, but numbers don't. Listen to Biggest Rivalries of all time on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 2 (4:11) Hi guys, welcome to Legally Brunette. I will be your host today, Emily Simpson with... Speaker 1 (4:16) Shane. Hi Speaker 2 (4:17) Shane. Hi. How you doing? Good. How's life? All Speaker 1 (4:20) right. Okay. What crime we got today? Speaker 2 (4:22) Well, today was the first hearing since the mistrial in the Lindsay Clancy case. So they had the hearing. We're Speaker 1 (4:31) going Speaker 2 (4:31) to talk about it a little bit. We're going to... Speaker 1 (4:32) And the purpose of the hearing is? You Speaker 2 (4:34) remember we talked about this previously, but today was scheduled a status hearing in the Lindsay Clancy... I know there were several motions that the defense had put on that were before the court. One was, remember, he wanted the case either he wanted it thrown out or he wanted her acquitted because he was claiming double jeopardy, things like that, which doesn't really apply. We can talk about that a little bit later. Also, I know there was a motion before the court as far as he wanted the holdout juror investigated. Speaker 1 (5:05) Like, Speaker 2 (5:06) look into this man. Yeah, but the thing is that Speaker 1 (5:08) each juror comes up with their own conclusion. Right. They all have the same set of facts, but everyone can apply it however they see fit to the law. And Speaker 2 (5:17) he's now Speaker 1 (5:18) pointing him out as, like, being wrong. Well, he Speaker 2 (5:22) wanted his cell phone record seized. Because I think there was some... They said he was Speaker 1 (5:26) looking at his cell phone to see if he was searching the case or something. I Speaker 2 (5:29) don't know. I mean, I think at this point... Well, why not Speaker 1 (5:31) seize the other phones and see if they were all crooked? We Speaker 2 (5:34) were also anticipating that the Commonwealth would possibly be able to say whether they were going to try to offer a plea deal, whether they were going to retry her. Okay, so we're going to get into that hearing. So this was today, September 29th, 2026. This is the first hearing since the mistrial. At Clancy's first trial, her lawyer, Kevin Reddington, never disputed that she caused her children's death. I think that's very important because we need to remember that. The first trial was never about culpability as far as who caused the children's death. Remember they- Speaker 1 (6:07) Who was responsible. They Speaker 2 (6:09) stipulated to that. And really the only issue at the trial was whether she was acting in a- state of mind where it was premeditated and calculated, or whether she was not criminally responsible because she was going through a state of psychosis. So that was the only issue before the jury, not culpability as far as who did it. So he never disputed that she caused her children's deaths. This is in the first trial. His defense centered on her mental state, and he argued that she was experiencing postpartum psychosis and therefore could not be held criminally responsible. We know that there was a mistrial and that there was a hung jury. Today's hearing marked a shift in tone. I don't know if you saw this, but I was at the gym and I was going through. I Speaker 1 (6:56) did not see you at the gym. Speaker 2 (6:57) No, I know I didn't see you at the gym. I was at the gym. And while I was at the gym, I knew that the hearing was today. So I was going through my newsfeed. Yeah, Speaker 1 (7:05) Instagram. Speaker 2 (7:06) Instagram. And now, Ruddington is accusing investigators of deciding Clancy was guilty from the start and failing to do a thorough investigation. He points out that she never confessed and questioned what motive could she possibly have had and said Clancy does not remember the killings. She only knows she strangled the children because police told that to her. Yeah, Speaker 1 (7:31) he's mentioning that now. Yeah. I mean, that seems like if that's an issue from the beginning, it should have been brought up in the beginning. Speaker 2 (7:38) Yeah, but it makes you wonder when he had all the discovery and looked at everything and was meeting with his client and all those things, they... they stipulated to the fact that she had killed the three children. So obviously that was his takeaway from everything that he was seeing. So now the question is everything that he's been seeing, I don't know, on social media, online, all the people that have been watching the trial and have been saying it looks as if Patrick was more involved and all the theories out there and all the people claiming that they didn't do a thorough investigation because this doesn't make sense or the blood doesn't make sense or her core body temperature doesn't make sense because I saw his argument and he does touch on a lot of those things as far as the blood in her bedroom. He made an argument that when they found her and her core body temperature was 80 degrees that she would have had to have been out there for longer than two hours for her body temperature to be at that point. Reddington also was arguing that she had black socks on that didn't have any blood on the bottoms of them and that if she had tried to cut her wrists and cut her throat in that bedroom and then jumped out of the window that she would have slid around yeah Speaker 4 (8:43) in Speaker 2 (8:44) the blood and there would have been blood on her socks and there was no blood it's actually a good argument i mean it makes you go well that's but Speaker 1 (8:51) if it's good it could have been brought up at a different time i Speaker 2 (8:55) know but i'm that's what my question is is that all this new things that were coming out at trial and these new theories and the at-home detectives that are noticing things and pointing out things that made him, because he did go on Good Morning America just recently and said that Patrick Clancy had nothing to do with it. And remember, he did Speaker 1 (9:15) that. Yeah. Speaker 2 (9:16) He did several interviews where he said like these theories are wild and they're not true. And Patrick had nothing to do with it. So then. Speaker 1 (9:25) Well, wait a minute. Well, if that's the case, then he would be backtracking. Speaker 2 (9:28) Yeah, but he's just saying, but he's. Well, Speaker 1 (9:31) he's trying to cast doubt on her being. Right. Speaker 2 (9:34) The one that committed the murders. Right. But Speaker 1 (9:36) he's not necessarily pointing the finger at anyone else either. Speaker 2 (9:39) Right. But he did previously in his little media stint that he did after the mistrial say explicitly that Patrick had nothing to do with it. So then now if he's in the status hearing today and he's saying, look, I don't even, my client didn't even. do it like this doesn't make sense then it's like well then now you're saying that there's a third party Speaker 1 (10:00) that Speaker 2 (10:00) came into the home or are you making reference well you don't have Speaker 1 (10:04) to say who did it you just have to cast doubt that she did it right Speaker 2 (10:08) prosecutor shenan buckingham responded that the defense has never challenged the evidence itself and that the case against clancy is extensive she dismissed the claim that the evidence doesn't prove clancy killed her children as laughable Plymouth County District Attorney Timothy Cruz admits his office has not yet decided whether to retry Clancy. The judge set another hearing for November 2nd to deal with more requests, including one to throw out the murder charges. So basically nothing got resolved in the status hearing today. It just seems like there's... So Speaker 1 (10:41) the Speaker 2 (10:41) status Speaker 1 (10:41) is it's still a mess. Speaker 2 (10:43) It's still a mess. There's more motions before the court. The defense is asking for, you know, basically an acquittal and to throw it out. The prosecution is saying, we don't know what we're going to do yet. We need more time. You know, they could offer lesser charges like manslaughter, second degree murder. Speaker 1 (10:59) Compromise on the issues. You know, this guy's, you can't, you got to give the attorney credit, man. This guy's Speaker 2 (11:06) pulling out Speaker 1 (11:07) all the strings. Speaker 2 (11:09) All right. So let's talk about is Kevin Reddington legally allowed to claim that there is not sufficient evidence to prove her guilt when that was not his initial defense? All right. The answer is yes, he can. So you can have Speaker 1 (11:23) you can have defenses that are conflicting. Speaker 2 (11:26) You Speaker 1 (11:26) know, a lot of times they'll have multiple defenses. Like I didn't shoot him. If I shot him, it was in self-defense. Right. And you're like, what? Did you or did you not? But you can have, there's a term for that. You can't have defenses that overlap and conflict. Speaker 2 (11:41) Yeah. I guess why I was questioning that is because that was never presented in the original trial. Speaker 1 (11:48) No, that I get. It was Speaker 2 (11:49) basic. It was just, we concede that she committed these murders. The only issue is her state of mind. Now that we have a status hearing after the fact. She didn't do it, Your Honor. How could she have done it? They didn't prove it. There's no evidence. You know, my client didn't do it. So it's just, it's interesting that he's done a 180. I Speaker 1 (12:07) wonder like what it was like when the light bulb went off in his head, like, oh, wait a minute. What if I just claim that she never did it? You Speaker 2 (12:14) mean which TikTok Speaker 1 (12:14) it was that somebody Speaker 2 (12:16) sent him? Yeah. And he's like, Speaker 1 (12:17) oh, Speaker 2 (12:17) that's a good point. Maybe Speaker 1 (12:19) it wasn't her. Speaker 2 (12:20) At today's hearing, Reddington asked the judge to find Clancy not guilty without holding a second trial. As part of that, he said the evidence prosecutors presented did not even conclusively prove that she had committed the killings. The prosecutor pushed back hard and pointed out that the defense repeatedly agreed at trial to physical evidence showing that she was responsible. Reddington did not completely abandon his original argument, though. He also argued the prosecution never proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Clancy wasn't in a state of psychosis. So just to reiterate that the burden was on the Commonwealth. They Speaker 1 (12:56) have to have to prove all the elements of the case. Speaker 2 (12:58) They have to prove that she was actually does not Speaker 1 (13:00) have to prove. Anything, really. Right. Speaker 2 (13:02) She just has to... That's proof Speaker 1 (13:04) that she was sane, that she knew she was committing the crimes. Right, exactly. And fulfilled all the elements of the crime. Right. Speaker 2 (13:09) And then the threshold is reasonable doubt. So if the jury has a reasonable doubt that she was acting with clear and concise mental state, then that's when they would find her. And this is Speaker 1 (13:20) all to decide where she's going to be for the rest of her life. Speaker 2 (13:23) I mean... Pretty much. In a psychiatric hospital or Speaker 1 (13:26) prison. Speaker 2 (13:26) Are you going to Speaker 1 (13:27) be Speaker 2 (13:27) in this bed or are Speaker 1 (13:27) you going to be in that bed? Yeah. Speaker 2 (13:29) So... even though Reddington didn't completely abandon his original argument, he's really making two arguments at once. He's saying you didn't prove she did it. And even if she did, you didn't prove she knew what she was doing, which is what you were talking about with the, with the self-defense where you were saying, I didn't shoot him, but if I did shoot him, it was self-defense. So he's saying it's the same. Cycle of argument. And if it Speaker 1 (13:54) wasn't self-defense, he deserved it. That would be my thing. And Speaker 3 (13:58) I Speaker 1 (13:58) acted accordingly. Speaker 3 (14:03) I'm Melissa Jeltsin, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police wrote off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge. You Speaker 6 (14:19) never know who that devil is because he's wearing a disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform. Speaker 3 (14:24) And you can get access to all episodes 100 % ad-free with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to iHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. Speaker 5 (14:45) Oh my God, Lexi, we have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Iwanyu. We're two best friends. 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa DiGiulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. I'm not going to get anywhere fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today. Now in my 30s, being the founder of New Shoes, good taste is my business. And I've always got something to say. If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older. And a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight. But there's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Liar. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 7 (15:49) I don't