Jay Jeffers on protecting your firm from a pipeline in flux

Trade Tales

Interior designer Jay Jeffers discusses his twenty-seven-year journey from corporate advertising at Gap to establishing a successful design f

Key takeaways

• Jay Jeffers transitioned from Gap's corporate headquarters to interior design after an introductory class at Berkeley Extension.
• His business strategy focuses on staying lean with a team of 10–14 people to manage market volatility and project fluctuations.

Main topics

• Career transitions
• Managing business volatility

Notable quotes

We've set it up to where you can't make a mistake.

Conclusion

A masterclass in entrepreneurial resilience and the importance of main

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:01) I think sometimes clients, especially if they're new to this process, feels like so serious to make the right decision. And I try to reassure them that like, we've set it up to where you can't make a mistake. We've set it up to where if you choose within the realm of what we're showing you, it's going to be right. Speaker 2 (0:24) Hi, I'm Caitlin Peterson, the Editor-in-Chief of Business of Home. Welcome to Trade Tales, where I'll be talking to interior designers about the challenges, pivots, and perspective shifts that come with growing a design firm. My hope is that you hear your own why echoed in these stories, or an idea that sparks your own breakthrough. I hope it helps you realize that even when entrepreneurship feels lonely, you're not alone. My guest today, is a designer who has never been afraid of chasing his creative ambitions, venturing into retail and hospitality, and embracing the risks and challenges that come with it. More than two decades into his firm, he's reflecting on what it takes to build a business that can weather growth spurts, but also the slower periods that can inevitably follow. I can't wait to share it with you. But first, a quick word from our sponsors. Speaker 2 (1:24) This episode is sponsored by Minted, a curated art and design marketplace powered by independent artists around the globe. Specializing in prints, Minted offers a variety of mediums and sizes, all available with premium custom framing options, which allow interior design professionals to use this art destination for projects big and small. Minted's exclusive trade program offers complimentary art proposals, insider discounts, and free domestic shipping on all member orders. Join today to get recommendations for your next project at minted.com slash trade. Mark your calendars because Fall High Point Market is coming up October 17th to 21st. For home furnishings professionals everywhere, this is Speaker 1 (2:14) where business gets Speaker 2 (2:16) done. Designers and retailers can source thousands of products, meet the brands behind them, discover new opportunities, and gain insights to strengthen their businesses. Turn five days at market into your smartest investment all year. Register for Fall High Point Market. at highplantmarket.org. Speaker 1 (2:44) I think I was destined to end up in something creative for sure. I grew up in Texas. You know, in Texas, sports is everything. You know, the football teams and the baseball teams and all that stuff. And that was my brother. And I could have cared less about that. You know, I was in choir. I took art lessons. I was all those things. The magazines that I kept in my closet were GQ and Architectural Digest, of course. You know, I was always Speaker 2 (3:09) rearranging the furniture in my own room, but Speaker 1 (3:11) also out in the living room and everything else. my parents would come home from work and find the living room completely rearranged. And, you know, it looked better, I thought. Speaker 2 (3:21) That's Jay Jeffers. He went on to earn his business degree at UT Austin and soon moved to San Francisco to work in advertising at Gap's corporate headquarters. It was an exciting role, but it didn't quite scratch his creative itch. And before long, he was in search of a new path forward. Speaker 1 (3:41) I very much wanted to figure out what I was going to do for the rest Speaker 2 (3:45) of my life. And Speaker 1 (3:45) I literally was flipping through a course schedule catalog. Berkeley Extension had a campus that was not too far from my apartment that I was living in. And I found an introduction to interior design class starting the next week. And I was like, oh, this could be interesting. And I took the class. And it was the most eye-opening experience I've ever had in my sort of aha moment of a career. There was some architecture and there was some art history. And then we had to do projects on our own. And I just devoured every moment of it. Our final project was to design a room in the city and a room in the country. I do remember seeing mine versus other people's and it was pretty darn good. And I had a professor who said, you definitely have a career in this if you're thinking about pursuing a career in this. It was an eye-opening thing that was like, I think I can make a living doing this. I think I'm kind of good at this. And I think I'll have fun making a living doing this. Speaker 2 (4:39) Over time, Jay transitioned out of his corporate job while taking more design classes and working under the wing of another local designer. A few years Speaker 1 (4:48) later, Speaker 2 (4:49) he arrived at his big break, which came in the form of a small room. Speaker 1 (4:54) I was written up in the San Francisco Chronicle, Diane Dorn Sakes, who's a very famous writer and doyen of the design written world. I had decorated a little room in my apartment. San Francisco Chronicle had an amazing home section back then, and it was seven brave new talents, I think it was called. And I think they focused on seven different designers. You know, that's back when people would read things in the media and give you a call. And I got some new clients on my own. I kind of saw that as an opportunity to hang out my own shingle and start my own thing. Speaker 2 (5:27) In 1999, Jay struck out on his own and launched his firm. I wanted to talk to him about protecting his business from pipeline volatility, creating a workplace that attracts senior talent, and what he learned from the process of opening his own hotel. Speaker 1 (5:46) You Speaker 2 (5:47) said, you know, you get published in the paper and the phone starts ringing. People find you and call and want to work with you. How is that different from the way media functions as an engine for your business today? Speaker 1 (6:01) Well, I mean, today, I would say it's just a different channel. You know, publications are lovely to be included in and they're wonderful. And I think the broad... strokes of being in a publication in combination with their online presence and Speaker 2 (6:20) their Speaker 1 (6:21) social media presence is really how the work comes today. I mean, most of my work, 80 % of it is referrals. I would say right at this particular moment, 50 % of it is existing clients that have other projects and another 50 % of it is referrals from them. We just started a new project out in Los Gatos. And her husband, ChatGPT, top designers in San Francisco, she said my name was one of the first ones and she really liked what she saw and she gave us a call. So it comes from everywhere now. I would kind of liken that ChatGPT moment to opening the paper and seeing seven brave new talents and seeing that work and picking up the phone and calling that person. But back then, I didn't even have a website. So they were looking at one photo in the newspaper and a photo of me and whatever Diane had written about me and picked up the phone and called. But back then, you didn't have access to as much information. Speaker 2 (7:18) How did that change some of the early conversations you would have with clients? I mean, today, you can go into a first phone call and people know a ton about you, how you work. How is that different or how does that require you to show up differently? Speaker 1 (7:34) Oh, God, it was nerve wracking, first of all. Speaker 2 (7:36) Then or now? Speaker 1 (7:37) Then. Okay. I still might get a little bit nervous if it's a really great project that I really want. But then it was sort of like, oh, my gosh, I have a phone call where this phone call could last five minutes or 20 minutes that needs to get us to the next stage. So the next stage was always meeting in person. At which point, you would bring your portfolio with 8x10 glossies of the work that you've done. And those things, especially when I began, those things were projects that I worked on with Richard. And I was very forthcoming. This is what I've done with this client. This is what I've done with this client. And these were my projects with a former firm, blah, blah, blah. But Speaker 2 (8:20) I Speaker 1 (8:21) always thought... As a kid and even in university and all that, I never want a job in sales. I never want a job in sales. I would be terrible in sales. And that's all we do. We are selling our ideas, selling our concepts, selling the furniture that we think is the right thing for the house. We are definitely salespeople. But I learned early on too. That if you believe in it, and I believed in myself, I believed that I was talented enough to do anything, really. I probably got a couple of jobs in my early days that I really had no business doing. But you believed. But I believed. And I would wake up at two in the morning in a sweat and get up and go draw things and figure out how I was going to make all this work. Because that saying, fake it till you make it, I definitely was a part of that for many years. Speaker 2 (9:12) Was there a moment where you looked around and you thought, I'm not faking it anymore, right? Or just, I feel really settled in the business that I've built. Speaker 1 (9:22) Honestly, it took doing two books. Speaker 2 (9:25) Okay. Wait, that's not that long ago. No, Speaker 1 (9:28) it was about 15 years before I was like, okay. And it was sort of like, okay, I'm not the new kid on the block anymore. I'm actually a seasoned designer and I do know what I'm doing. Speaker 2 (9:41) What is it about the bookmaking process or just having the book on the shelf that clarified that for you, but not the first time, the second time? Speaker 1 (9:51) You know, the first book was like a realization. It was sort of like, I can't believe that I actually have a book. I can't believe that this is actually happening. Speaker 2 (9:58) And Speaker 1 (9:59) when I go back and look at that book, there's a huge variation in the work. I'm very proud of the work that I did, but there is a huge variation in the different aspects of it. And I think that was called Collected Cool. Be Bold was the second book. And I think I really sort of hit a stride with the projects. And the projects were a little bit larger. Budgets were a little bit better as well. But I hit a stride in which we were really creating very bespoke. things for clients that were really interesting and also had a boldness aspect to it and a fun to it that I always loved in my work. That second book was like, okay, you're established now, even though I was already. And I know that now. Like on paper. Yeah, on paper. Speaker 1 (10:52) Or even just going out and meeting people. And at that point, there were younger designers that I didn't know anymore in the industry in San Francisco and in New York that appreciated my work and let me know. And I think that was also the beginning of social media too. And you would get DMs from people saying, I love your work. So that sort of helped the establishedness of my being. Speaker 2 (11:15) You know, you were excited to be an entrepreneur. But as you've built your business, What part of running your firm has surprised you the most or sort of tested you the most as an entrepreneur? Speaker 1 (11:28) That's a great question. I feel very fortunate in that I don't have a lot of HR issues. We've had great hires and people have come and gone, but it's all been a very copacetic experience. I think the volatility of the design market, especially as I've gotten larger and... There was a time when I had a retail store and we had between the retail store and the firm, we had 20 people and that was too much for me. And it's kind of, now we're between 10 and 14 and that's a really good number. But the volatility of projects, big projects coming and then not hearing the phone ring for a little while and small projects coming along or big projects getting put on hold and that sort of thing, which I think happens more, I would say, in the last... four or five years or maybe it's maybe, maybe timing is off for me. Maybe it's more like 10 years. It just seems to happen a little bit more. I think, I think people are, you know, people decide, you know, we thought we were going to live here. We're not going to live here and that sort of thing. That's happened to us a few times. And Speaker 2 (12:34) that happens more than it used to. It Speaker 1 (12:36) happens more than it used to. Yeah. Speaker 2 (12:37) How do you kind of build guardrails around some of that? Or how do you protect your business from that volatility? Speaker 1 (12:44) We try to stay lean. So from a staffing standpoint, try to stay lean without creating an environment where people are overworked and burnout happens. So that's part of it. I like the business part of my job. And I look at every project. And were we profitable? Did we make money on this? Were there areas where we're spending too much time? I've always been a big proponent of do the job right, do it correctly, and then I'll go back and look and I think, okay, we've spent too much hours doing this correctly. Then we might not bill the clients quite as much as we spent. But we have enough of a cushion in there that we do make money on projects. So I think as long as you remain profitable, then my other thing is I've always been very concerned about cash all the time. So I just make sure that there's... we have a cushion. So if there are small downturns in markets and things like that, we've got runway. We're not desperate to get the next job. Because I've also learned, try not to take every single thing or don't take a job out of desperation. Take a job out of, you want to do this job. Yeah. Speaker 2 (14:00) Can you tell me what your team looks like today? Speaker 1 (14:03) I have two principal designers. that were both senior designers for a long time. Both of them have been with me for over 10 years. I think one's going on year 11 or 12 and one's year 14 or so that are incredible. And one of them works with me on every project. And then we have junior design staff under them, some that are kind of mid-level, some that are unique and have a unique skill set, project managers that do expediting. and that sort of thing. So we don't have, I've had architectural designers on staff in the past. I don't have anyone now. I mean, now everybody except for me in the office knows CAD and all those sorts of things. So we have the ability to do our interior architecture that we do quite a bit. But we do not do full scope architecture for clients. We rely on the Speaker 2 (14:55) amazing architects we work with for that. Speaker 1 (14:57) But it's been those two principal designers, Jen and Victoria, and then my staff below, that's the number that usually will change depending on workload and that sort of thing. But it's an amazing team to have, and I'm so grateful for them. Speaker 2 (15:11) We talk a lot on this show about how a principal's role evolves as their team grows, or maybe in your case, how a team matriculates or becomes more senior. How were you thinking about the work that you wanted to be doing? I mean, where do clients see you? Where are you hands-on in the work? And where are you taking a step back? Speaker 1 (15:33) I am involved at the beginning and the end, really. And I'm involved in the middle where I need to be. But once we get the job, I am the one that will be in the initial meetings. asking the questions, learning about the clients. I am presenting all of the ideas, the concepts, that sort of thing. My principal designers are in the meeting with me. And there's usually, depending on the size of the project, there's me, there's a principal designer, there's at least one other designer, then there's a project manager that's expediting everything once it's ordered and that sort of thing. And sometimes that project, if it's a big project, there may be two or three junior staff under it. There may be one or two. There may be one. It just depends on the size of the project. But I will be presenting all of the concepts, all of the ideas, that sort of thing in the beginning once we have a kind of a sign-off and a vision that's been approved and we're then executing work. Then I take a step back and you might not hear, the clients might not hear from me as much, but I meet with my team, you know, two or three times a week and see them all the time. So if there are, if I