Ask Us Anything: Live with Evan Millard, Melissa Oholendt and Audrey Scheck

Trade Tales

In this live episode of Trade Tales, recorded in Austin, design experts Evan Millary, Melissa Olent, and Audrey Schach discuss strategies for managing

Key takeaways

• Attracting larger projects requires consistent messaging across all platforms—social media, websites, and personal interactions—to emphasize full-service capabilities.
• Showcasing the 'process' (e.g., architectural phases and shop drawings) can help attract high-end clients looking for project management expertise.

Main topics

• Lead Generation and Messaging
• Photography and Image Licensing

Notable quotes

I talk about full service design... from beginning and getting in on the ground before we even break ground all the way through completion.

Conclusion

The episode serves as a practical guide for designers to transition fr

Transcript preview

Speaker 5 (0:04) Hi, I'm Caitlin Peterson, the editor-in-chief of Business of Home. Welcome to Ask Us Anything, where we're tapping former Trade Tales guests to answer all of your questions about building a better design business. This week, we're sharing something fun. Our third live episode of the show, which we recorded in Austin, Texas earlier this summer. Evan Millard, Melissa Olent, and Audrey Schach joined me in the forehand showroom to field four designer dilemmas. These questions will be familiar if you've tuned in for recent episodes of the show. But the insights that Evan, Melissa, and Audrey brought are delightfully fresh. They also took questions from the audience, delivering smart, on-the-spot advice that you will not want to miss. Speaker 6 (0:51) I am so excited to share this one with you. Speaker 5 (0:54) So sit back and enjoy the show. Speaker 3 (1:04) Hey, designers. One Speaker 5 (1:06) of the industry's most beloved brands has a big birthday this fall. That's right. Four Hands is celebrating the big 3-0. That's 30 years of telling elevated design stories and empowering designers to tell their own. That's also 30 years of incredible growth. From a small antiques importer in Austin, Texas, to an international brand with a robust in-house design studio and a full lifestyle assortment. And that's 30 years of drive and desire to meet the ever-changing needs of life at home. Four Hands is a company that's proud to do things differently, with a deep commitment to continually improving and enhancing the designer experience. 30 years in, Four Hands is just getting started. Here's to three decades of design and to everything that comes next. Explore the benefits of shopping with 4Hands for your next project at 4hands.com slash tradetales. Speaker 6 (2:12) Are y'all ready to give some advice? Super ready. Amazing. Our first question is going to come from a designer who wants some advice when it comes to the kinds of leads that are coming her way. Here's what she had to say. Speaker 7 (2:24) I've been in business now for about six years. And I just feel like I'm at a point where I should be getting bigger projects in terms of scope and budget. I'm not really sure if I'm doing something wrong, if I'm putting out the wrong type of messaging. I hear from other much more established, well-known designers that every now and then they'll get an inquiry for like one room or I want to pick a paint color. But I think that I'm getting a really high percentage of unqualified inquiries. Right. Speaker 6 (2:57) Unqualified leads. I want to start first by really identifying kind of the levers that this designer can start to pull to change the kinds of calls that she gets. So for all three of you. If you were feeling this way or when you've felt this way in the past, what were the first changes that you started to make in your business? Where would you go looking to say, I want the phone calls coming to be different? Speaker 2 (3:22) I mean, I would say that one of the most important aspects of attracting the type of client that you want is to have a clear message. from start to finish. And I think that that really starts with our relationships that we're building and how we're introducing ourselves and how we're explaining our services and then making sure that it's broad. And so like our personal lives, our social media lives, our website, all has that same message. Speaker 6 (3:49) Okay, you said personal life, social media life, website life. How are you talking about who you are to really showcase who you want in each of those channels? I Speaker 2 (3:59) mean, I... I talk about full service design. I talk about projects from start to finish. So beginning and getting in on the ground before we even break ground all the way through completion. And then I just kind of weave that throughout every conversation and message. Speaker 7 (4:17) Audrey, what does that look Speaker 6 (4:18) like for Speaker 2 (4:18) you? Speaker 7 (4:18) I agree. I think piggybacking on that, imagining that you have 30 days to speak to your ideal client. And if you have that window of time for them to interpret... you and your business and your offering, what does that look like? So of course, your portfolio can attract... people from a visual standpoint, but that messaging is really important for them to know what your offering is. So what is it that you're putting out there? And it's more focusing on full home, larger projects. And if you don't have those to showcase, you can still choose your imagery to support that and then change your messaging to talk about the services that you are offering. So imagine that you have one month of speaking to your target client and just always imagining that you're speaking directly to that person. And from our standpoint, that marketing aspect has really changed for us in thinking that we're tailoring the conversation and everything that we do from our website and our portfolio and social media to speaking to that person that we want to attract. So typically, whenever the inquiries are coming in and they aren't exactly what we're looking for, we'll go back to messaging immediately. And the messaging must be something that we can work on. Speaker 6 (5:30) You said 30 days or a month. Is that the idea that you've got like a content strategy for 30 days and then you reset and you sort of assume that you're starting telling your story over? I Speaker 7 (5:39) imagine that they're like typically going to be really focusing in and paying attention when someone's making a decision about what designer they're hiring. You probably have about a month of them speaking to, inquiring, interviewing different designers. I imagine that we have a month of their really dialed in attention before they make a decision. Hopefully, within that window of time, we've had an opportunity for them to inquire and have a conversation and maybe to meet them and speak with them. And that's typically the sales process, if you will, in my mindset of how long we have to really engage with them to get our messaging across. Does Speaker 6 (6:12) that mean then that your messaging, especially I'm thinking on social media, sort of like resets? Are you reintroducing yourself as you're starting over? Speaker 7 (6:20) Yes. Speaker 6 (6:20) Periodically. Speaker 7 (6:21) Yes. It's constantly speaking about our offering and our business and what we're doing and imagining that some people have never seen these things before. And in our mind, it might be something that we introduced a year ago. And you have to imagine that most people probably haven't seen it or haven't heard about. So reminding them of all the things that you're doing and all the opportunities that are existent within your firm or your output of work. So yes, we're constantly trying to reimagine that that person can be coming into our orbit at any time. Speaker 6 (6:50) Melissa, how does this show up for you? What levers would you start to pull if you didn't like the leads coming in? Speaker 8 (6:55) Yeah, I think to piggyback off of what they said as well, I think talking about process is also such an important thing because at the scale of which these larger scale projects are happening, they have to be so process driven. And those people are looking for someone who can drive that process for them. And so really hammering in and making sure that your messaging contains. topics that are related to process. And it doesn't have to be as dry as like, we are a process-driven firm. It can definitely be along the lines of like, hey, right now we're in the architectural phase on this project. And here are the bits and pieces that we're doing. Or like, hey, look, we're red lighting shop drawings for cabinetry just to get those bits and pieces out there that I feel like we keep so close to chest of like, no one's interested in seeing this. our clients are watching and they want to see that or our potential clients are watching and want to see that. And so if you can put that out there, then someone else is like, hey, wait, I'm in the middle of, you know, I remember shop drawings for my renovation and I'm encountering a new build in six months. Like, I don't want to do that myself. That's miserable. And we're like, yeah, it's fun. We love it. And we do. I think putting that stuff out there is really important to getting that trajectory to those bigger projects. I mean, it's not. It's not an overnight thing, certainly. It's certainly a long lead time to kind of get to those projects. But I think that's where I kind of go back to our messaging if I'm thinking about it. Do Speaker 6 (8:19) you think that showing the process that intentionally and really showing kind of how seriously you're approaching these jobs also maybe discourages the person who just wants help picking out a paint color? Speaker 8 (8:30) I think so because I think that they're like, whoa, this is maybe more than I am bargaining for, like maybe more hours than I need from someone. I just want them to tell me, you know, white dove by Benjamin or whatever. Like, it might be a little discouraging on that side for them. Yeah. Speaker 6 (8:47) How are all of you thinking, you know, there's an attraction element, but there's also when it comes to leads, kind of like a repelling element of saying, I don't want these wrong projects to land in my inbox or in my queue. How are you thinking about positioning yourself so that you aren't attractive to the wrong client? Speaker 7 (9:05) I feel like we're still learning that. I feel like, and it's, and I'm okay with that. I'm a yes person and it's still hard for me to say no. And I think having a team that supports our vision and our process. helps with understanding the goal of the firm and being able to say no when it's not right. And we're also always open to changing our offerings. So, you know, our consultations may look one way one week, and then they're completely different the next week. So, and I think being flexible and open to changing your process and your offering is really important. Speaker 2 (9:41) I think one thing that can also be done when it comes to receiving inquiries for projects that might not fit my desired type of project today, but if it piques my interest, a lot of times I think that it's my job as a designer to influence and to help my potential clients and my clients see beyond what's in their minds. So I will often overscope. I will, if I'm creating mood boards, Speaker 1 (10:05) I'll Speaker 2 (10:06) put some other images. Like if they just want to do a bedroom, I'll... kind of touch on their living room. Speaker 1 (10:12) Yeah. Speaker 2 (10:13) And you know, it's kind of opening their eyes to what can be and to really what they need. Speaker 8 (10:18) Yeah, I agree with that a lot. I think sometimes it's sometimes just taking the call. Like sometimes it's a small project and... By the time you're done with the call, they're like, well, Speaker 7 (10:27) why don't we throw in the Speaker 8 (10:28) kitchen and the primary bathroom? And you're like, cool, let's do that. Speaker 7 (10:33) But Speaker 8 (10:34) sometimes it's not. And sometimes it's not a great fit. And so we have kind of these measures of, we have a frequently asked questions on our page that are on our webpage that we send at the inquiry stage to say like, hey, here's our project minimum. If you don't fit that, like for the right project, we may take projects that are... a little under that. And so I think sometimes I have conversations with people who are like, who either weed themselves out or like, I think it's too small of a project for you. For us, we have the expert offering, which is a great thing for us to be able to kind of curtail those people into. So we're not just saying like, no, I can't help you with that. But my team will tell you, I have been known to take a one-room project that has led into a much larger scale project. But I also have taken the project that is the one-room project because we needed it at that time for overhead and to pay the bills. And I'm very clear with the clients that your design fees are probably going to outscale what you're looking for. But if you're okay with that, we're along for the ride on this one-room project too. Speaker 6 (11:34) How often does the one-room project? grow? And what are sort of the, what are the green flags for being like, oh, this one has growth potential versus this is a very finite job that I'm taking? I Speaker 8 (11:50) think for us, they have, they've scaled quite a bit or become larger just because it's like, if you give a mouse a cookie situation and clients really... realize that and understand like, oh, well, I have been wanting to do this work in this other room and I can save costs by having the trades do the work at the same time. And I do have the excess funds. I think a little bit of that has shifted probably I felt in the last year, year and a half of people feeling a little bit more guarded about that. But I would say that I'm still, we still see it happen quite a bit. Speaker 7 (12:24) Yeah, same here. I think we're big on relationships. And as soon as we have a great relationship that is... felt mutually, right? We're providing great value and they're seeing great results. Then it does tend to snowball into suddenly we're having a kid and we're buying a second property. And so there are all these other opportunities. And then it becomes like they're not even considering another designer. And that's the goal is that it's this mutual relationship that we really love working with them. And they aren't even thinking of working with anyone else because that relationship is so deeply established. One of our designers is in Mexico with one of our clients right now. And I'm like, hey, what about me? So that relationship is so, so important to us. And I really want our team who's here today to have that with all of our clients. I really think that that's such an integral part of all of this is trusting the person that is in your home and making these decisions with you and providing that deep, deep value. Speaker 6 (13:23) For the clients calling who are very clearly wrong for what you do, what is the intake process? And, you know, I know, Melissa, you said some of them maybe weed themselves out because of your FAQ page. But what are some of the roadblocks that each of you are placing along the way to kind of help people self-select out? Speaker 2 (13:44) I think just being clear and upfront with expectations. Speaker 2 (13:49) is one of the keys, one of the key factors, just like from the start. I don't know, when it comes to like budgeting and things of that nature for me, I'd like to, you know, do a proposed furnishings budget. And I kind of come in high and low numbers. I let them go home. They get to circle and feel where they're comfortable. And then we move forward. But like if a client has a very small budget, I'll just reinforce money, money, money, money, investment, investment. Typically, they'll get tired of it. They'll kind of go home. Speaker 2 (14:19) And that just means I'm not the right fit. Right. Because NSO... Yeah. Speaker 6 (14:27) I want to be on that call. Money, money, money, money, money. Speaker 2 (14:30) Let's talk about one of the most important parts. Yeah. Speaker 6 (14:33) Have we talked about your budget Speaker 2 (14:35) yet? Yeah. Speaker 7 (14:37) Yeah. Similar here. We have an investment guide that we really try to leverage for... introductory conversations and early education and making sure that they understand what the investment process looks like from design fees to materials and construction and labor costs. So we're constantly pushing that to set the precedent of here is the typical investment. This is what this looks like. And we have had several clients who have said something similar, like, you've said investment guide four times in this, you know, and I'm like, I know, because I think it's so important that we level set with you. So making sure. that they understand that. We have also changed our pricing structure many times when something is the ROI on it isn't necessarily matching our time investment, then we will raise prices in certain avenues and make sure that it feels more elevated and more premium. Speaker 8 (15:28) And I mean, similarly, I feel like having that money conversation as early as possible is really the key. Is that like first phone call? First phone call. Yeah. First phone call for sure. And opening that door because I think if there's a hesitation to release or I, and we've all heard it, I don't have a budget like you have. a budget. Like Kardashians have a budget. I'm going to say a number at a certain point that's going to scare you. And like, I want to do that now while we're face to face before we're in a contract with each other because then it just gets messy. So, but I do think it is what makes us us because it is part of. our entire process. We are constantly talking about money and being a good guardian of our client's budget, but also making sure that we are being very frank about what these real costs are because they are not minimal these days, as we know. Speaker 2 (16:18) I'll say just quickly, I think some of it really comes down to educating, of course, our clients. When a potential client comes to me, I say, have you seen my portfolio? Have you seen my body of work? Then in the back of my head, I know that this living room costs $75,000. And I know that this sofa was around $10,000. So when they come to me, I can speak from an educated standpoint. And especially when it comes to faux finishes and plasters and murals and decorne and all these custom things. I got a friend yesterday. He said, oh, I love this ceiling medallion. He thought it was wallpaper. And I'm like, but no, it's not. It could be. It's custom. But you can tell how the corners meet and how it's mitered. And I can kind of point out some of those nuances. And Speaker 5 (17:02) the price tag. Speaker 2 (17:03) And the price tag. And the labor. Yeah. That's another large component. Yeah. Speaker 6 (17:08) One last question and then we have to move on. Are all of you doing this intake conversation yourselves? Or is that something you've outsourced to a team member? And what are the pros and cons of maybe some of these not great leads not ever hitting you guys? Speaker 2 (17:25) I'm Speaker 6 (17:25) a Speaker 2 (17:25) one-person show. So I do have a bookkeeper and a CPA. But for the most part, I do everything else on my own. And I would say the con would be I'm also a people pleaser. So that's the hard part is when I have to tell someone no or tell a client that we're not the right fit for whatever reason. Speaker 7 (17:42) I'm doing them myself as well. So when someone inquires, I personally am responding to them within 48 hours and typically scheduling a discovery phone call within a week. And I do those myself, but my team is on the call. And now we have a system where, similar to Melissa, we're grading them and basing the intake on lots of different factors and deciding what priority they are in our funnel. And then... our follow-up strategy is dependent upon where they fell in that grading system. So Speaker 6 (18:13) you're not going to leave that call with a like, I can't wait to work with you. You're always going to leave that call with, we'll get back to you. Yeah. Speaker 8 (18:19) Yeah. I am also taking all of our inquiry calls. And I think probably the con is similar to Evan is that like I, my strengths finder tells