Karma, Enlightenment & the Wisdom Beyond the Mind | Shyalpa Rinpoche | Shekhar Natarajan

Tomorrow, Today

In this episode of Tomorrow, Today, Shekhar Natarajan hosts His Eminence Shyalpa Rinpoche, a Tibetan Buddhist spiritual leader, to explore t

Key takeaways

• Resilience and adaptation are core strengths of the human spirit, especially evident in the Tibetan diaspora's preservation of language, culture, and Buddhist teachings.
• Karma is not punishment but a natural law of cause and effect; our actions shape our present and future experiences.

Main topics

• Tibetan exile and cultural preservation
• The philosophy of karma and reincarnation

Notable quotes

Always make sure you give others to win. Make sure you always take the loss.

Conclusion

Shyalpa Rinpoche's journey from exile to spiritual leadership underscores the enduring

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) Always make sure you give others to win. Make sure you always take the loss. Speaker 1 (0:10) I've actually given speeches bare feet in large conferences and people find it extraordinarily strange. Speaker 2 (0:22) And I used to joke and say, Italian only knows how to eat tomato, that's all they know how to pay. I didn't like it, I didn't Speaker 1 (0:30) like it. Speaker 1 (0:35) And doing the right thing is also subjective. Like, you know, doing the right thing for me is different than doing the right thing for you. And then we have to exhibit moral coherence. Speaker 2 (0:48) And he had to, so like, boil his own leather shoe, Tibetan traditional leather shoe. And he had to soak this in the water and then boil it and had to eat as a food. Speaker 1 (1:27) Welcome to another episode of Tomorrow Today with Shekhar Natarajan. Speaker 1 (1:33) First, I got like a couple of big announcements to make. We officially reached 1 million subscribers on the show. We just launched the show about like four months ago. And it has taken off like wildfire. And today, we also have about 50 million views on the show. So the incredible love that people have been showing is truly fascinating. Because the whole essence... of thinking about humanity and how technology will impact humanity in the future and our readiness to that has been resonating quite a lot so we are incredibly thankful to the audience for the subscribers for all the love and keep spreading the message This is also the 25th episode that we are shooting today. And I have been trying to chase you down, his eminence, Shalpar Rinpoche, for almost like, I think like four months now. I saw you in Davos. I was inspired by your speech. And ever since I've been trying to basically find like some way to connect with you. And I know that you've been traveling all over the world, spreading the message of peace. So it's an incredible honor for me to finally record and this is the 25th episode and we are super excited about this. Welcome to the show. Speaker 2 (3:02) Thank you very much for having me here and I'm sorry it took so long to find me but now you get to be around me all the time. Speaker 1 (3:13) Yes, and it is also an incredible honor to have you be part of the journey of what we are building. And I know that like, you know, I'm excited to be part of the journey that you are like trying to go. And we're going to unpack all of this in this show. Truly excited about what we're going to talk. So let's start from the very beginning, his eminence. So you were born in a refugee camp in Tibet, you know, to parents. And you have basically like, you know, what did that refugee camp give you that still continues to be there in your life? Like, what was that like? What was that moment of being there in the refugee camp, being born there? And kind of what experiences have you carried from there on? Speaker 2 (4:06) Yes, a little bit small correction. I was born in the Himalayas as a young child. As I was growing up, one very interesting thing is that my parents had to learn a completely new language. They are in a completely new setting. So where are they from? They are from Tibet. They are from Tibet. And later, from the Himalayas, from Nepal, they moved to India as well. As I was raised in India and Nepal, we felt that somehow human beings are capable of adapting to any given situations. So the more you challenge yourself or more circumstances or situations challenge you, I think there is a great strength in humanity where they are able to face it. and overcome it. So today what I remember very, very meaningfully is that even though you are no longer in Tibet, we are able to have the culture, tradition, language, spiritual training that we otherwise would have in Tibet. So in a way we are able to preserve this in such a way today. Speaker 1 (5:38) Because Speaker 2 (5:39) within Speaker 1 (5:39) this Tibetan language, Tibetan Speaker 2 (5:41) culture, Tibetan Buddhism, Entire teaching of Buddhists, entire teaching of Buddha is available today, more than anywhere else. Used to be available in Sanskrit, but no longer is available in Sanskrit. So no other languages carries this much teaching. Hundreds of volumes of teachings of the Buddha, which is so precious. And we are able to learn from a very young age, four or five years old. So I feel very very fortunate, very very meaningful to be born in this family. Which is completely a spiritual family. Very much devout, you know, Buddhist family. Speaker 1 (6:30) Thank you for this wonderful, beautiful gift that you have given me, His Eminence. Tell me more about this. I'm so curious now. Speaker 2 (6:39) It is my great pleasure. to greet you with this Khata. Khata is a Tibetan word. This is a way we greet everyone in our tradition. So this greeting is very, very special because this brings auspiciousness in your first meeting. Also, there's a practical reason behind it. in high Himalayas, and because of the weather and altitude, flowers are not easy to find. Speaker 1 (7:14) And Speaker 2 (7:14) so this also represents flower. Wow. In a beautiful way. So this is whether we greet a very, very high enlightened master, or just a friend, or a colleague, or business partner, we always offer khata when we first greet them. Speaker 1 (7:34) Thank you so much. It's truly an honor to have this. It's my pleasure. And I'm excited to be part of the board that you're building as well. Truly honored to be part of it, the World Peace Board. So you were born in exile in the Himalayas. So your parents actually came from Tibet to Himalayas. So tell me a little bit about that whole journey of your parents, your birth and the... What did that refugee camp give you? Speaker 2 (8:07) It's very, very unfortunate that my parents had to escape and had to leave Speaker 1 (8:15) in a Tibet hometown. On Speaker 2 (8:17) the way, they have endured so much pain and suffering. Especially, I was told that my father, he escaped from Tibet. Only child from his family. The family did not leave, but he left. On the way, he had to cross the Himalayan pass and snow mountains, rugged terrains. And he ran out of little food that he was able to carry himself. So on the way, halfway through, he could not find anything to eat. And he had to boil his own leather shoe, Tibetan traditional leather shoe. Speaker 1 (9:05) And Speaker 2 (9:06) he had to soak this in the water and then boil it and had to eat as a food. Wow. Of course, the leather did not digest, could not digest. So he almost died halfway through. And then my grandparents, they rescued him. Your mother's side? Other side, mother's side rescued him. And then slowly, slowly he recovered and came to exile. And however, you know, they're such a strong spiritual family. When they were in exile, they are not having any kind of like a, so like a negativity towards what they have experienced. Rather they understand is their karma. Rather they understood it's something that they had to endure and they have to deal with it. Instead of revenging in certain ways, they are able to have compassion. And the way to have compassion is they try to preserve and protect the culture, language and tradition by leading me and others of my age into spiritual training. and education and everything that they have given to us is kind of very, very impressive because they could not speak Nepali language or Hindi language or any other languages they are able to face there. They can only speak Tibetan at that time. But at the same time, they are able to survive in a very, very meaningful way. Today, so... Out of all refugees, Tibetan refugees are the most vibrant. Speaker 2 (11:01) most sophisticated refugees who are able to preserve and protect Tibetan culture, Tibetan language, Tibetan Buddhism. And not only that, Tibetans are all over the world today sharing the message of peace, message of compassion, and the wisdom of Buddha. Speaker 1 (11:23) This is quite a feat. Quite a feat too. Tell me a little bit about like, you know, Tibet itself. Like, what are the struggles of Tibet? Speaker 2 (11:35) Tibet is one of the most beautiful places on this earth. The highest plateau in the world. Of course, sometimes it's not easy for us to breathe because thin air creates altitude sickness for some people. But for Tibetan... And Tibet is like a heaven. It's known as a snow land and a paradise of Buddha of compassion. It's very interesting for me because Tibet is a difficult terrain and high altitude and snow mountains and a very cold and harsh situation. Tibetans were able to bring the most meaningful thing in Tibet in the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th centuries. Buddhism. Buddha's teaching from Speaker 2 (12:35) Nalanda, Brikram Shilla, and they're from India. So today, Tibet is very, very special place because Tibetans are able to apply this teaching. The outside external harsh reality is easily related with insight, wisdom, and realizations they're able to obtain from the blessing. of Buddha's teachings. So example, for instance, there is one practice in our tradition called Tummo, heat practice. So in that snow-capped mountain, a meditator can stay in the cave or outside the cave, and all the snow around him will melt. So no snow will be near him as he was practicing in that place. So this is like a quality, no? I mean, that is like how I see Tibetans because this is why patience and compassion and understanding of Tibetans is spreading everywhere beautifully with great many Buddhist leaders in our tradition. So I think today, when I talk about Tibet and I said, you must go to Tibet at least once in your life. But of course, acclimation is very important. So don't go there, it's rushing and everything. But once you go there, people are able to live with very little, very happily. And people are really good hosts and hostesses. They will never treat you like a stranger. And that is a quality I see in the Himalayas, which is very unique for many people. So today... wherever I travel around the world, no matter where it is, and I'm always received with smile and kindness and bow to me because they recognize, oh, he is from Tibet. Speaker 1 (14:42) So why was your father like exiled? Like why did he escape Tibet? Like what was going on? In Speaker 2 (14:49) 1950s, there was a cultural revolution, Chinese and communists at that time. And I had a fight with the Tibetans there. And some Tibetans, I think 100,000 or more Tibetans, were not able to relate to that and had to escape because of the invasion. Including Dalai Lama. Including Dalai Lama at that time. And so my parents even came a little bit before that. So they came almost like at the same time. Speaker 1 (15:22) And Speaker 2 (15:23) so they had to escape. There was a big, all over China, and a big cultural revolution, and many, many destructions happened. So, this is the main reason why they escaped in Tibet. And Speaker 1 (15:39) like, so the people of Tibet are able to still hold on to the original system of values, though there is... Yes. Tibetan Speaker 2 (15:47) system, there's no such thing as Tibetan system separate from teaching of Buddha. So Tibetan system is completely decorated with the essence of Buddha's teaching, love, compassion, generosity, patience, and moral conducts, and understanding, and so on and so forth. So if there is no Buddha's teaching, you can say there is no Tibetan culture. So it's very, very interesting in that way. So today, more than ever, Tibetans in exile, as well as in Tibet, they are... completely enjoying their culture and tradition because it is treasured from all over the world and people from all over the world. So it's very, very interesting in a sense that I wish everybody is able to embrace wisdom culture all over the world. And it doesn't matter whether it's for Tibetan or whoever, the wisdom culture which comes with the compassion. is something that we all should be able to treasure it and apply it so that our lives will enrich beyond imagination. Speaker 1 (16:59) Very good. So you were born in the refugee camp and then at the age four, Like someone comes and says, you know, hey, your son is meant for a higher purpose. He comes from a different lineage of Allah and like he's reincarnated soul and we need to take him down the path of spirituality. We need to start teaching him the ancient wisdom, the philosophies and like you are the anointed one, you know, the incarnated one. Speaker 1 (17:37) What was really that moment like? Like for your mom, your father, for yourself as a child, because you're a four year old. I know my four year old started just like barely blabbering at that time, you know, like he started like creating conversations with us. So what was going on at that time in your family? It's very Speaker 2 (17:59) interesting, you know, my family, as I said, very spiritually. Speaker 2 (18:06) practicing and spiritually involved family from Tibet. So as they are in exile, I was born and then I supposed to have visited a temple with my grandmother. At age four? Even younger. Even younger. And so at that time, they found me, folded my hand. when I reached the temple. with my grandmother. So they took it as a very good sign. Maybe accidentally I did this, I don't know what happened. So they found me doing this mudra, respect mudra. And of course this is also very meaningful because in our tradition this symbolizes the wisdom, this symbolizes compassion. And wisdom and compassion, inseparability is the way we... say Namaste and we say Tashi Delek and bow to the temple and things like that. So I'm sure they have this very deep meaning in their mind. So their infant doing this in front of the temple as I reached the door, they took it as a good sign. Imaginable because they are spiritual people, they are in this tradition and they're really... honors this kind of gestures and this kind of behaviors because it's a beautiful behaviors in their tradition. So then after a while, of course, they took care of me as a child probably and two great elderly, you know, Slogan master. And they're supposed to have told my grandparents that this child is a very special child and you guys should protect this child and don't... and get in a dirty, don't, you know, it's like always keep it very pure and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So from there onwards, so I was like recognized as something they should really hold on to very closely and must be giving me more opportunity to really train in this tradition. That was like how it happened, it seems to me. And then later on, as I was a little bit older, in our tradition, and as a reincarnate child, we have to go through rigorous training. Rigorous training morning. How did they identify you as a reincarnate Speaker 1 (20:47) child? Speaker 2 (20:48) So these two masters who have identified me as a... So like a special child. And there's many ways to recognize reincarnated child. But my one is like, supposedly this two great person from our village at that time, supposedly have told my grandfather and grandmother that this is a special person. This is how it is recognized. And there's other tradition is sometimes. Speaker 2 (21:17) like a child himself will say, oh, I am the reincarnation of such and such. As soon as they open mouth, they're able to say that. That is another way. And another way is also they have, you know, like a 20, 30 very special child and their names are put in the vase and then they pick one and who is considered. the reincarnation. So there are many many ways that conducted in our Speaker 1 (21:50) tradition. Speaker 2 (21:50) But the most important thing is that in our tradition what I've found is that there is that demand. There is this devotion and respect for such reincarnated master because many reincarnated masters in the past have performed well so to speak. carry on the tradition and so wonderfully and serve humanity and serve their own village and temple and so on and so forth. So there's huge demand for it. So this is how I think our culture and tradition is very well preserved because purity is intact in this tradition. So this is how. Is Speaker 1 (22:34) not all life reincarnated in general? Speaker 2 (22:37) Yeah, absolutely. Actually, I always say this. Either you are reincarnation of the butterfly or that buffalo, you never know. So you are. But in this tradition, it is institutionalized. So you Speaker 1 (22:55) are a master. Master, and then Lama, that's Lama, and reincarnate, right? So we make this Speaker 2 (23:00) into an institution, right? institutionalized way is Tibetan reincarnation way. Otherwise, who is not reincarnation? And we all have Buddha nature, enlightened quality. So whether we are ant or whether we are human being, we have that Buddha nature, right? Ant can be reborn as a human so that we will be having more possibilities for enlightenment than being as ant, right? So I think, yeah. Absolutely in the reincarnation of all souls. So Speaker 1 (23:36) like, you know, I believe in this, you know, in this whole tradition of everything in your life, you think you're absolutely like, you know, the master of. But, you know, I feel like you're really, you've chosen your contract in life. This is what you wanted. You've been reincarnated into this life to perform certain activities, whether it is, you know, seeking certain goals in life. And everything in my life has been, I feel like subconsciously they appear at the right times. Like whether it is, I come, you know, I was born in like very humble family, like in slums. And people have shown up in my life at different times, coming into my life, helping me at different moments. And when I look back at it, they're like miracles, like God has performed in my life. And I feel like, you know, these are all contractual. Like me meeting you, having the discussion with you, and you thinking about like absolute intelligence. And I'm working on angelic intelligence. that's like God's way of saying like the two bodies have to connect and basically have to like, you know, so do you believe in that theory in this philosophy or like, am I the only guy who thinks about it? No, Speaker 2 (25:06) as you said earlier, when we are in the living room there, it is karma, you know, I think definitely this is not something you and I only decides. There is a cause and effect. So there are many things that are not easily. We can define what is happening. So cause and effect is the key. Because as long as we have this physical body, as long as we are living in this world, we are bound by karma. No matter who you are, you are bound by karma. Unless you are able to find complete liberation in this very moment. to be able to enjoy total validity of this reality in front of us. So in a sense, absolutely, it's not something that we alone creates. Karma is happening all the time. And it's very important to realize that nobody is going to be able to measure the sort of varieties of karma and depth of karma. Can you imagine right now as you and I am talking here in this beautiful studio in Hyderabad, countless karmas are happening. We cannot even imagine. So this is the limitation that we have. We are only able to see the karma in front of us. Can you imagine what's happening right now even in Hyderabad city itself? Speaker 2 (26:42) so many sufferings, so many upheavals, so many happiness, so like countless things are happening. So if you think about that way, really, I mean, we are not really able to really enjoy anything, not even a point zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, you know, percentage of, you know, life is not, you know, what we are able to experience. So it's really, really profound. to know that and act according to meticulous way of abiding by the law of karma. You know, absolutely right. So I was talking about AI and AI, you know, as I gave talk in Stanford and other places. And everybody knows AI, the first one, and say, okay, it's artificial intelligence. Then say, okay, this is AI and AI. What is another AI? So then I explained and I talked about another AI, which is absolute intelligence, right? So I was talking this for last two years. I'm sure you are also planning of angelic, you know, intelligence for quite some time. And then we meet in Davos and we had little interaction there and we are connecting. And now here we are together, you know, meeting the minds and meeting the heart and meeting the visions and absolute intelligence and angelic intelligence. Speaker 1 (28:14) This is karma. Speaker 2 (28:17) This is supposed to happen, supposed to be there. And I did not put much effort in making this happen. I'm sure you did not put that much effort to make it happen, but it is happening. It's happening. So it's so beautiful when we realize everything is karma. And if we are able to believe in karma, that doesn't mean that we leave everything to karma. It's not like that. So I think we see how limited we are. by not knowing the law of karma. And we are only bound in this small world where what comes in our head and what is in front of us for who we are relating instead of being able to recognize the workings of karma. So when we see the workings of karma, I feel... somewhat responsibility to truly help everyone, whoever needs whatever kinds of help. But if we cannot help, make sure we realize we have no right to hurt anyone. So this is very important because moment you hurt anyone, you're hurting yourself. But you're not believing in the karma. You're not believing in the cause and effect. And cause and effect, the result is absolutely certain. Nobody can escape from the result of karma. No one, as long as there is mind. Of course, if it's a rock, there's no karma for the rock. Speaker 1 (29:53) True, true. So, now let's go back to the four-year-old again for a second. And so, you know, a four-year-old craves for a lot of things. Playing, enjoying, climbing trees, like falling from the tree, right? hanging upside down, like having favorite food. But you had to give up all of that and practice philosophy, religion, the ways of life, deeper understanding of meaning of life and seek excellence of mind, so to say. Did you ever have like, you know, at the age 4, 10, 20, 25, 40, whatever it was, did you ever feel like I want to be that other child who's like playful, who wants to do this? Did your mind crave for that? Speaker 2 (30:58) Definitely, because when I was studying as a young boy, my peers and I see from my window, they're playing soccer. They're playing football. And they're running around. They're playing. And I just say, wow, they're having a great time. They're having a great time. So I was bound there. My grandparents and my teacher were there to train me. And I used to say, oh, I have to go to pee. So in one hour, I have to go to many pees. That is a way for me to get out there and to at least say hello to them and just kick one ball or something like that. Then I have to rush back because my grandparents were expecting me to run and study. So my grandmother especially, she's a very, very kind lady, very, very strong lady. And amazing how she is, you know. For me, she never learned a Tibetan alphabet even. She doesn't know how to read. But she can recite prayers. for one, two hours in memory. Wow. Okay? So that's just like how, and she never had education to go to a school or anything. She was the housewife and she was looking after the animals and Tibet and so on and so forth. She's so strong. And she's so strong, she was really focusing on my study because now she believes that I am the reincarnation, right? Because someone told her that. So she felt responsibility, but she is very spiritual person. And she will be very tough on me. So, okay, come back. It's your time to study. Don't fool around with those kids. You are different. And I come back and I have to study. Not necessarily I'm very happy with that. Right? Then when I go to school and she have saved 25 paisa and 50 paisa, all these things, then she will put in a box and give it to me. Okay, you go and take this now. So all this time she is very tough on me, studying. work and study, study, study. She's making me do it. But when I'm going to school, she has this connection with me. Here, you take this. So skillful and Speaker 1 (33:39) so loving and so caring. A real selfless person. What did you do with that 25 paisa? Speaker 2 (33:46) Of course, that's a lot of money. We can buy lots of chingums and balloons and all these things. At that time, 25 paisa is like today, maybe a thousand rupees. So we are very happy. And you used to spend them on balloons and all that stuff. Yeah, like whatever. you know they have jamaru like it yeah to come with this kind of small things we used to buy them but normally all the kids they have toys and i never had toys my toys are bell and damaru and bell and bajra and things like that because that's what i and i had to use and train myself so i used to say that you know you guys are lucky to have burby doll as your toy and I never had a bell and timer as my toy. The Speaker 1 (34:37) power of memorization, I will give you, there was something very strange that happened to me. So I used to travel quite a lot when I was in my early days of my career. Like, you know, when I was working for PepsiCo, I used to be on the road. And then every other weekend, I used to go visit like this mentor. He was 92 at the age when I met him. He was the founding father of industrial engineering. And I would go spend like the Saturday, Sunday, Friday evening, Saturday, Sunday with him learning about how to think about the whole industry itself, the practice of industrial engineering. And I learned it from the master. Right. So. My wife used to basically get very bored and she would say, you know, I want to go visit my mom and dad. And so she would go away for like two, two and a half months because I'm traveling so much. Right. And then every night I used to play Vishnu Sahasranamam. Right. And I never knew a single word of it. Never. Like I've like sometimes I like, you know, I've heard it like when I was young, but I've never like. Speaker 1 (35:55) I've never learned it, so to say. But I used to play this all the time in the night. And one day I wake up and I know every bit of it. Speaker 1 (36:10) And so much so that like, you know, and I used to listen to a certain, certain way of reciting it. And I was able to recite exactly the same way that was recited every day because I was playing that every night and while I was sleeping. And I would like, you know, subconsciously my mind like kind of like heard it. And you know, I started like, I can recite Vishnu Saraswati Namam without like anything. So, but I cannot do any other thing. I cannot recite any other thing. So, like when you talk about your grandmother, right? That power of memorization and God's gift of like you trying to recall subconsciously what is already embedded in you is such a beautiful thing. How do you invoke that sort of? inner like latent capability of yours? Speaker 2 (37:10) I think it's mainly your will and conviction, you know. Now, if I think about my grandmother at a very young age, you know, how she was in Tibet, there's no recording to play. She keeps hearing it all the time? Maybe her mother or father praying as she was a child, maybe, you know. And then can you imagine, they have to go after yaks and goats and sheeps, you know, they have to look after all these animals. You know, and the parents, they're not there all the time to train your youngster, right? And maybe their parents are praying in the morning or whatever. I cannot imagine how she is able to memorize more than even I am able to memorize today. I can read very well, I can write very well, and I was trained in that way. But the way she was able to memorize is really strong will. And the conviction where she felt prayer is the answer. So she was praying and she wanted to pray. She learned to pray, right? So mainly, you know, like for you, similarly, and instead of listening to any Mozart or like a rock and roll or any songs or anything, you are able to have that as one of the most important priority for you in the evening, you know, as you are able to listen, right? So that connection. you know, it creates everything. So I think not only about the memorizing and prayers, and that applies to everything. Once you have a real conviction and when you are totally convinced that this is it, I think we are able to have the real power over everything. And we are able to have memory, we are able to overcome anything that we wish to overcome. And I feel that There's nothing that we cannot overcome once you have that strong will and commitment and a way to integrate in whatever thing we need to face. Speaker 1 (39:27) So you went from like... Speaker 1 (39:35) reading the spiritual philosophies and everything. And then like, you know, you, you went to Varanasi. Yes. And then you went to school there to Varanasi. Um, and, uh, you were a very bright student. You did extremely well there. Uh, you were also the youth leader, very vibrant. Um, so tell me a little bit of that journey. Um, and then like walk me into the journey of. the fisheries. Yes. Because that is a very interesting story. Speaker 2 (40:08) You know, it's very interesting that I was born with a silver spoon in the mouth, so to speak, in a spiritual training. As you mentioned, I was raised from a very young child as a privileged child because I have given this opportunity to be trained in that way. So then I excel in a little bit when I was studying and I was able to. Speaker 2 (40:40) I hate examinations by the way. I hate examinations. I don't like examinations at all. Whenever the examination comes, I say, look, there must be a way to get out and have to do this. But anyway, whenever there was examination, either I was number one or number two or number three. So I never fail from getting one of those three positions. Even when I have examinations. Speaker 2 (41:10) night before the examinations, I used to feel that I know more than my teacher knows. Because a teacher probably don't have all those memorized, all this studied. Very good, and I can write tomorrow, whatever question comes. But of course, still, I don't like it. I don't like the examination, and nobody should have to attend examinations, I feel. And nobody should, because... that doesn't justify who you are. So this is just like grading. I don't think nobody needs to be graded in that way, I think, which is, again, disrespect to our human intelligence, I feel. But anyway, so I was there studying, and then my grandparents, they say, okay, you have to marry now because you are the lineage holder of our family. You have to marry. tell me, you know, who do you want to marry? And we would ask to give her hand. So my grandfather was quite adamant, you know, he must be married. I was like 14 and 15. And I said, you know, please, you know, don't make me marry anybody right now. I want to have further study. So then at the age of 15, and I was granted to go to study in Varanasi. And then when I reached there, there's about 60 students who needs to compete for the position. So there's only 40 students can be admitted. There are 60 students. So we have to do the examination again, which I don't like. So I had to attend the examination. So we did attend and actually I have another friend from our village came with me. So I was number one, he was number two. So we automatically got selected. So that was a relief. Then in Varanasi, I stayed seven years studying Tibetan. language, Buddhist philosophy, and Sanskrit, Hindi, English, and things like that. So seven years then I spent studying Buddhist philosophy. Speaker 1 (43:42) What is the name of the school? Speaker 2 (43:44) Central Institute of Tibetan Studies, that's called. Central Higher Studies of Tibetan Institute or something like that. Now it's called Central Tibetan University. Speaker 1 (43:57) Very good. And so you went there, you studied for seven years. Yes. And then like, talk to me about the fish release. Oh, yeah. It's a life-changing Speaker 2 (44:09) moment. In between that seven years and around my fifth or sixth year, my parents both got very, very ill. And because of the village situation. Speaker 2 (44:27) My mother was in one hospital, a very, very poor hospital, but there is still a hospital. And again, five, six kilometers away from, my father was in another hospital. I was studying in Varanasi, so they both get sick. And my father was in a coma. And my mother also, sort of like cannot sense herself and both are in a bed within and almost dying. Speaker 1 (45:05) What was your age at that time? Speaker 2 (45:07) I must be 20 around there maybe, maybe something like that. And your