Touker Suleyman: I Lost Everything! How I Rebuilt My Fortune, Bought A Brand For £1 & Why I’m Leaving Dragons’ Den

Thriving Minds with Alberto Zandi

Entrepreneur Touker Suleyman recounts his dramatic rise, catastrophic financial collapse, and eventual resurgence in the fashion industry. H

Key takeaways

• The danger of early success: Suleyman admits that initial wealth led to a false sense of invincibility and a lack of proper oversight.
• Critical importance of due diligence: A 29% stake taken without investigation resulted in a domino effect of debt and liquidation.
• Negotiation strategy: Effective negotiation requires understanding the other party's motivations and being prepared to walk away.
• Brand value vs. manufacturing: Suleyman realized that while manufacturing provides margins, owning a brand provides scalability and exit value.
• Resilience through failure: He emphasizes that failure is a necessary teacher and that one must never give up despite total loss.

Main topics

• Entrepreneurial resilience
• Business due diligence
• Fashion industry history

Notable quotes

The life of an entrepreneur has many roads, ups and downs. No matter what you face, you never give up.

Conclusion

A powerful testament to the necessity of grit and the wisdom gained fr

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) You've got 800,000 of debt. You've got one little shop. What are you going to do with it? I said, I'll buy it off you for a pound and I'll take on the debt. A good entrepreneur can enter a sector that knows nothing. If they're good at picking people, they can do any business. It was like a movie, you know? She had two public companies, young age, Aston Martin, the whole thing, it all looked too glamorous. Speaker 1 (0:18) It was only success, success, success. So you feel like you could do anything. And then all of a sudden, debts, liquidation, losing your house. Speaker 2 (0:25) Yes. I think it's a classic example. Speaker 3 (0:29) Tuka Suleiman is one of the world's best-known entrepreneurs, investors and retail leaders. With more than 50 years in business, he has built and transformed major fashion brands, famously acquiring Hawes & Curtis for just one pound and turning it into a multi-million pound business. He is also one of the longest-serving dragons on Dragon's Den. where he has invested millions into some of Britain's most promising emerging companies. If Speaker 1 (0:56) you could give one advice, only one advice to an entrepreneur, what would it be? The Speaker 2 (1:00) life of an entrepreneur has many roads, ups and downs. No matter what you face, you never give up. I took a 29 % stake without doing my proper due diligence. So that's a big mistake. So the whole thing was like a domino effect. Lost everything. Well, it's a lesson learned. is very important in whatever you do in your life. I've learned that the hard way. Speaker 1 (1:24) You'd become a dragon in Dragon's Den. After 10 years on the show, what makes a good founder and a good business to invest in? Tucker, thank you so much for coming this morning. I know you don't do many podcasts or none whatsoever, so I feel very privileged that you're here with me today. Well, privileged. Thank you. Take me back to the beginning. What was your childhood like? Speaker 2 (1:44) Well, look. Speaker 2 (1:46) I remember distinctly when my family was from Cyprus. And in those days, Cyprus was run by the British. And there were problems in Cyprus, intercommunal problems. So my family decided to leave Cyprus in 1959. long time ago and Speaker 1 (2:08) i Speaker 2 (2:09) remember as a five six year old being on a boat Big boat. Speaker 2 (2:16) Coming into Dover, being lost on that boat. As a very young child, the boat was massive for me. I got lost on that boat. And I remember coming in. in the English fog in those days. That was my first remembrance of my young childhood, coming into a country as an immigrant. Although I had a British passport because Cyprus was part of Britain, part of the UK then. And my family in Cyprus, my father was a businessman. He used to import... It's natural. cigarettes into Cyprus. So he was quite prominent. But he realized that the uncertainty and the security of Cyprus meant that he wanted his family to be safe. Speaker 2 (3:08) So we came to the UK and we stayed with some family friends for a while. And then my father then went into partnership in a restaurant. Speaker 2 (3:22) And I remember distinctly in Camberwell, Speaker 1 (3:25) London, Speaker 2 (3:26) this south-east London. And as a child, I remember being surrounded by my father working hard. It was really hard work to keep us going. Speaker 2 (3:41) At that time, opposite where we were, there's my child at a very young age. There was a club. Speaker 2 (3:50) Called Clubland. It was run by a Methodist Church priest Speaker 2 (3:57) But the whole thing there was, it was a community of... Football, games, community. Speaker 2 (4:08) I remember his name now, Reverend John Butterworth. This is in the early 60s. And I got involved there. And it's probably where I first picked up what I call my leadership. I became head person there. I became head captain of the fleet. It was a leadership, you know. And I went to a very ordinary school. Speaker 2 (4:34) And probably that was the first form of my personality. And of course, at the age of around 10, 11, I had a bit of a scare. On my left hand here, my hands were blew up. And I went to the hospital and they said, we'll have to amputate his hand. Speaker 2 (4:58) Luckily, I went to another specialist and they put, you can see the scars still, they put plastic drains through my hand to take everything out. And if you see my fingers on the left hand, they haven't grown. Speaker 1 (5:10) No. So Speaker 2 (5:11) if ever one wanted to know my DNA, that's my DNA. You see? Speaker 1 (5:16) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 (5:17) So that was my young childhood. And then as a young kid, I became a good squash player. Speaker 2 (5:24) So I remember coming from South London and traveling all the way to Wimbledon Squash Club to learn how to play squash. And I was playing with the top guys in those days. And in those days, there was a big family called the Kahn family. They used to run the squash world around the world. And I was very fit. And at all that stage, it was being in the background of my family. Working hard. Me creating my personality. Speaker 2 (6:02) It gave me the vision of where I wanted to go. Speaker 2 (6:07) And I remember, and I went to a very ordinary school. South London. Speaker 2 (6:14) I came out with quite high grades. And of course, like any immigrant family, you want your children to be a doctor, to be a lawyer, to be an accountant, to be all that. Speaker 2 (6:28) So I decided my first job. was I was an article clerk in a firm of chartered accountants in Southampton Row. initiative. Speaker 2 (6:42) And I think I was earning about five pounds a week as my salary. Speaker 2 (6:49) I'm trying to think of the name. Speaker 2 (6:53) From there, I learned very quickly. I was given. The job of sorting out the paperwork for small businesses. And there were three types of businesses in those days that made money. property. celebrity and fashion. Speaker 1 (7:13) There Speaker 2 (7:13) was no internet, no mobile phones, there was nothing. And as a young kid in my late teens, early 20s, I worked for WOS, I noticed that very quickly... The aspiration of where money was being made. in the early 60s or mid, whatever it was then. Speaker 2 (7:35) mid 60s and Indirectly we were doing an audit in a fashion company Speaker 2 (7:42) I took some dresses, bought them, gave them to my grandmother. A week later, she calls me and says, those dresses you gave me. Where do you get them from us? Can you get more? I said sure. She said I sold those I want more Speaker 3 (7:54) And Speaker 2 (7:55) indirectly I got into the fashion business indirectly Um, And then... I knew that accountancy wasn't for me. I was much more ambitious. And I... How Speaker 1 (8:11) did you know that? Speaker 2 (8:12) And I met a Greek gentleman, Nick. He had a factory. Speaker 2 (8:20) in Dorsden Lane. Iceland. Speaker 2 (8:27) Very charismatic gentleman. Great talker. He was probably much more mentally advanced than what he was doing. Speaker 2 (8:37) And he said to me, look, I can make the product. You can sell it. So I went out, sold the product. Speaker 2 (8:46) I remember my first order was from CNA, UK. They were very big in those days. Speaker 2 (8:52) And that's how I started. And then eventually I brought out the partner and. Speaker 2 (9:00) I had offices in Little Portland Street in the 70s, and I soon became a forceful figure. Speaker 2 (9:10) supplying CNA, Arcadia. And it was different in those days. It was real. Speaker 2 (9:18) Call it rag trade. Around the area, every little first floor had lights and factories everywhere, fabric moving around. There was an excitement. It was a time of Bieber, Twiggy. There was a whole, you know. It was different. Again, no computers, no telephones. And it was very personalized. There were characters. Speaker 1 (9:47) And Speaker 2 (9:47) you'd walk around Great Portland Street, Little Portland Street, all that area. And you see the characters walking around. He was doing that. He was doing that. Just the characters. And everybody was competing about who would have the most lavish showrooms. Speaker 2 (10:03) And of course, at a very young age, probably at 21, no, not 21, sorry. Yeah, probably in my early 20s, I had my first Aston Martin convertible. I made my first million doing this. And after that... Speaker 2 (10:26) And then I met people in the city. This was the era before the Big Bang. So in those days you had... Speaker 2 (10:37) Lord Hanson, Cordy White, Asil Nadir, Turkish Cypriot, George Walker, the boxer. It was those days where if somebody walked into a company, the share price would double the next day. People are going to buy that company. It was that era. Penny stocks were pounds. It was like the Wild West. Speaker 2 (10:59) Somebody said to me, look, there's a small company in the clothing business that you should look at. Speaker 2 (11:07) Here I am, a public company, this is. Here I am. in my mid-twenties, wherever I was then, out of my depth. So I got involved in this company. The shares were 3p. Within two weeks, they were £4. On the back of probably this Turkish gentleman, Asun Nadir, who was on a whirlwind, whatever. And then... Speaker 2 (11:34) the brokers Speaker 2 (11:38) I remember the name, Lang and Cruikshank. I'm not sure if they're around anymore. I met them and they said, oh, we have a company called Bamba Stores. We'd like you to buy into Bamba Stores. It's an opportunity. Speaker 2 (11:53) Here I am thinking Young kid, in my 20s, chairman of a public company. I could be chairman of two public companies. So I had an old friend of mine, who's hopefully still alive, David Caddy. David Caddy was a senior partner. at Speaker 2 (12:13) Coopers and Libran, who are now PwC. Speaker 2 (12:18) So I called up David and said, David, what do you think? He said, right, let's look at the, you'd think a public company, all of the accounts. Speaker 2 (12:30) It'd be awkward. Speaker 2 (12:33) So I went to see the business and talked to the owners. Speaker 2 (12:40) or the founders. And the finance director was going to live in America. Mr. Vernon, the Vernon family. Very distant. He's probably dead now, Mr. Vernon. Speaker 2 (12:56) I looked at it and said, I could do something here. I could turn this business around. Speaker 2 (13:01) So David and I said, why don't we visit the assets? So we went to the warehouse. Speaker 2 (13:09) And as David says, it was all dusty. And he said, it's as well as coastal that just come out of Russia. He said, I remember these distinct words. He said, look, net assets are 16 million. Speaker 2 (13:24) Let's write off six million. Say ten million. is what this business is worth. It's what you can do with it. And I said to David, look, David, we know that the business needs more money. We need to do a rights issue. We need to review the business. So Speaker 2 (13:47) I took a 29 % stake. on the back of that without doing my proper due diligence. Yep. Speaker 1 (13:57) The due diligence was just walking around the factory? Speaker 2 (13:59) Yeah. So that's a big mistake. I always repeat the due diligence is so important. Listen, whether you're going into business with somebody, whether you're buying a business, whether you have a girlfriend, you always do your due diligence. There's always a history. You've got to know what you're getting yourself in for. It's really important. So I got myself in a position where I'd already bought the steak. And I remember distinctly, David Cady came to me with a big report. I've still got the report. I've still got it in my office. It's that thick. Speaker 3 (14:34) Cooper's Speaker 2 (14:34) Alarm Report. I think it cost £40,000 in the 70s, that report. Speaker 2 (14:41) He threw it at me in my office. He said, they're busts. I said, sorry? He said, the bust. Speaker 1 (14:47) This is after buying the business. Speaker 2 (14:49) Yes. He said, everything's been overvalued. The property was worth two million, they put 10 million. This was worth, stock was that. Jesus. You know. so Speaker 2 (15:02) What happened was Okay. And I was the chairman of the company now. I've been there for two or three months running the business. So the next day, we called the stockbroker and said, we should have an extraordinary meeting to discuss where we go from here. And we're in a room, Coopers and Libram, Lange and Cruikshank, lawyers, the whole thing in one room. Speaker 2 (15:31) I was advised that I should resign. Speaker 2 (15:36) As a chairman. Speaker 1 (15:37) Why? Speaker 2 (15:38) Because the company was insolvent. And my advice from everybody is to look, you're a... You're an innocent part of this. It's going to go into liquidation. But the funny thing was very simple. There was Bamba's share price had gone up tenfold on the back of my name. Speaker 1 (15:57) Within three months? Speaker 2 (15:58) Yeah. So John Southwell, I'm sure she's still alive, picks up the phone to his people. This is like 10 o'clock in the morning. John Southwell here. Speaker 2 (16:13) Just to let you know that at two o'clock, we're going to suspend the shares of Bamber stores. Between 10 and two o'clock, all the cronies came out of the stock. The stock. Nobody knew. That was how the stock market worked in those days. So the share price plummeted. And at two o'clock, they suspended the share. But all the guys that they put in, the people that put me in there, they all came out. So there was I. And of course, Speaker 2 (16:44) Bamboo stores eventually went into liquidation. So I had another business, Millions, which was another public company, also took a stake. Speaker 2 (16:52) And again, we did the same thing and we had to raise two or three million pounds. Speaker 2 (16:59) And I got a phone call. Speaker 2 (17:03) from Asil Nadir, the Turkish guy who owned Polypec. And And I explained the situation to him. Speaker 2 (17:13) He said to me, look, do nothing. We will take up the rights issue. Speaker 2 (17:19) I said, look, I've only got six weeks. Speaker 2 (17:22) to come up with money. No problem. Speaker 2 (17:28) Two weeks went, didn't hear. So I called him, oh, he'll call you back. Four weeks went, nothing. On the last day of the six weeks, I get a phone call. from his secretary. Mr. Nadir has decided not to proceed. Speaker 2 (17:44) Right That same day it hit the papers. He got it taken out of the papers. But I had no time to go back and raise the money. Speaker 3 (17:53) My Speaker 2 (17:54) time was up. Cash flow was up. Public company, another public company, you know? On top of that, I had another private company where I started from, which guaranteed, so the whole thing was like a domino effect. Lost everything. Speaker 2 (18:08) There was a young age. I had a house in Highgate. which I gave to the bank as a guarantor. Lloyds Bank. Speaker 2 (18:20) So from building this journey from zero to being chairman of two public companies on this... Speaker 2 (18:30) And I think at a young age, a lot of young people who become very successful think they can walk on water. Speaker 1 (18:36) Yeah. And Speaker 2 (18:37) I went through that stage. Think that I can walk on water. This was like it was like a