Nick Saban

This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von

Nick Saban joins Theo Von to reflect on his retirement from college football coaching, detailing the psychological shift required to step away from a relentless,

Key takeaways

• Saban reveals he spent 50 years 'in a hurry' without realizing it until retirement forced him to slow down.
• He describes success as momentary consistency, warning that resting on laurels leads to complacency and bad habits.

Main topics

• Retirement decision & post-coaching life adjustment
• Perfectionism, consistency, and the psychology of winning

Notable quotes

"Success is not a continuum. It's momentary."

Conclusion

Saban's candid reflections provide a rare, grounded look into the mental toll of elite coaching while

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) He's probably the greatest college football coach of all time. And I know he didn't like hearing me say probably right there. His run at the University of Alabama will never be matched, I would guess. He's had seven national championships. What he's done is unprecedented. And he has a new documentary out this week on ESPN. It's called Saban. I suggest that you enjoy that. I am grateful for his time, truly. It was an honor. Today's guest is Nick Saban. Speaker 3 (0:49) Yeah, just one of those days. Sometimes I have those days where you're just like, how am I going to get it all done? You ever have days like that? Oh, yeah. Today's one of them. Has it been? And did you have to regroup a little? Or like, what do you do like in a moment like that? Because I'm sure you've had them like at like kind of intense levels. And then it's like regular day to day level. Sometimes I'm just like, there's not a breath deep enough I can Speaker 2 (1:10) take. Sometimes it feels like. But, you know, I'm so used to grinding through it, coaching 14 hours a day. one problem after the next, one solution after the next, I can usually sort of grind through it. What I don't do very well at is having nothing to do. You know, that after being so busy for so long, I mean, now when I don't have anything to do, I'm like, like my wife, she didn't, she, you playing golf today? Speaker 3 (1:38) Get out of here. She's like, we're going to build a course in the backyard if we have to. I go to Speaker 2 (1:43) church on Sunday morning and then she says. Well, you're going to play golf afterwards, right? I don't want to see you until 2.30. Yes, I guess it's Speaker 3 (1:51) kind of new for her that now you're Speaker 2 (1:52) home, right? That's right. I came home one day at 3 o'clock. She said, what are you doing here? Speaker 3 (1:59) Where did you Speaker 2 (1:59) meet Miss Speaker 3 (2:00) Terry at? Speaker 2 (2:02) seventh grade science camp. We went to different schools in West Virginia. She went kind of the city school and I went to the country school. And, um, but we met at science camp. Now we lived about 10 miles apart, but that's like worlds apart, you know, back in those days. Oh yeah. Uh, yeah. But so we always liked each other, but I could never see her. And it wasn't until I was a senior, she was a junior that we started dating. So, um, Speaker 2 (2:33) So there would be 55 years in December. We've been married Speaker 3 (2:36) and how did our congratulations? It's been fun. That's cool. No, it's great to hear that. How did you propose to her? Speaker 2 (2:46) I think over the phone, if I remember right. What, like a recruiting call? No, I mean, I was at Kent State. She was back home going to Fairmont State, and we talked on the phone. But, you know, in those days, I mean, you know, it was expensive, you know, to talk on the phone. So we'd have these short conversations maybe once a week or whatever. And she came to visit during the season when I was playing. kind of talked about it then but did Speaker 3 (3:15) you ever make you get down on like did you ever make you go through kind of the formal no Speaker 2 (3:19) not really wow and then we had our honeymoon and wheeling at the wheeling holiday inn uh did you really oh yeah and went to big boy you know with the strawberry pie yeah Speaker 3 (3:33) That was where your honeymoon was? That was it. Oh, that's pretty cool. I will tell you this. I had a show in Pittsburgh one time, and I had a couple ladies offer me the wheeling feeling after the show. I didn't get any of it, but. Speaker 2 (3:46) Yeah, that's not one of the most accommodating places to visit. Speaker 3 (3:52) Yeah, yeah. I've had some good times. I did a show at the Big Sandy there in Huntington, which was really cool. I did a show one weekend when the guy. Remember they made that movie about the plane that crashed from Marshall? Oh, Speaker 2 (4:06) yeah. Speaker 3 (4:06) It was just that horrific tragedy that happened there within that community. And the guy who didn't take the plane, the coach's name was Red something. He was speaking at the hotel that I was staying at Speaker 2 (4:17) that day. I remember Speaker 3 (4:18) that Speaker 2 (4:19) story. Well, you know, ironically, I was playing at Kent State at the time, and we played them at Marshall several weeks before that actually happened. Really? It was really interesting. They had a pretty good team. Yeah, it was. So that was the same season that you were playing and the team just Speaker 3 (4:39) was gone. Yeah, gone. Speaker 2 (4:41) Wow. Speaker 3 (4:42) Crazy. Speaker 3 (4:45) That's pretty devastating. There it is right there. William Alfred Red Dawson was the Marshall assistant coach who did not pass away in the 1970 plane crash because he was away on a recruiting trip and drove back instead of flying. That's right. Yeah, I haven't spent a ton of time up there, but it's always nice when I do. Did you guys take a lot of family vacations and stuff whenever you were growing up up there? Speaker 2 (5:07) No, not really. I mean, it was... Work, work, work. You know, my dad had a service station, never wanted to leave, and I worked in it from the time I was 11 years old. So we never did. Speaker 2 (5:23) Terry and I always tried to do that once we got established. Myrtle Beach was the spot. It was like going to the French Riviera when you're from West Virginia. So we went there quite a few times. Drive down eight hours. Oh, yeah. There you go. Look at you right there, Nick and Terry. Speaker 3 (5:45) That's it, baby. That's magic, baby. Speaker 3 (5:49) Whenever you guys got married, did you have like a wedding song or anything like that? Like, do you have like a... Yeah, but I Speaker 2 (5:55) wish you wouldn't ask me those kind of things. I'm supposed to know that I don't really remember. Speaker 3 (5:59) Okay. Speaker 2 (6:01) We'll edit in a good answer. Speaker 3 (6:02) Okay. Speaker 3 (6:04) Yeah, I won't say a word, man. I'm quiet on the creek over here, man. I got nothing for you. Well, how about this then? Is there a gift that she got you, like an anniversary gift over the years, one that you really kind of prized that she gave you? Speaker 1 (6:20) That Speaker 3 (6:20) comes to mind. That comes Speaker 2 (6:22) to mind. Speaker 2 (6:24) You know... Speaker 2 (6:27) We enjoy being together so much, and we're best friends. She's always been so supportive and helpful in everything that we've done that it seems like those kind of things are a little bit second nature. She's always told me what I needed to hear, not what I wanted to hear, and has been very helpful in my development. I mean, when I was in college, I couldn't get up in front of a group and speak. And she was a speech English major debate team. I lost a few of those through the years, you know, the arguments. But she really was helpful to helping me develop, you know, confidence and public appearances and that type of thing. So she's just been so supportive, was a great recruiter, you know, great relationships with people. Speaker 2 (7:23) I don't remember very many gifts. You know, most of the time I'm giving the gifts, you know, not getting them. Yeah. I think dads are just hard Speaker 3 (7:32) to shop for too. But I guess I'm hearing you say that she's just, it's just kind of the eternal gift of you guys. This connection has always been the bigger value Speaker 2 (7:40) of anything that you, that you could just kind of get somewhere. That's Speaker 3 (7:43) right. Yeah. Is there a specific moment that comes to mind that she, that she was. really there when you when it was like a space where you couldn't figure something out oh Speaker 2 (7:54) yeah there's a lot of those you know i i think that you know especially once you get to be a head coach Who do you talk to? You Speaker 1 (8:02) know, Speaker 2 (8:02) your assistants are kind of your second lieutenants working for you. And when you have issues and problems, yeah, they can input certain things. But certain big decisions, you sort of have to make on your own. Yeah. And so who do you have out there that you can go talk to? And, you know, that's one thing that Miss Terry was always someone that I could talk to about an issue or a problem. And it's interesting sometimes that the outside perspective. is Speaker 2 (8:31) a little different than your perception of what it might be. And that's very, very helpful. Because even though she's your wife, she's still, she's not locked in it like you are. Right. Yeah. That's Speaker 3 (8:41) a good point. A head coaching, it kind of seems kind of lonely. Speaker 2 (8:44) It is. It can be. It is. And I was fortunate through the years to have, you know, he's in the documentary, Dr. Rosen was always someone that I could talk to about. you know, psychological disposition and how to try to, you know, motivate certain types of people and players. And he and Miss Terry were probably the two people that had the biggest impact on me and the direction I was always trying to head in and how they reinforced it. Speaker 2 (9:15) It seems like from an Speaker 3 (9:17) outsider's perspective that you've had like an amazing life, right? Do you feel like you've lived up to your potential? Speaker 2 (9:25) Like, do you feel like that? Well, you know, I sort of look at it a little different. I mean, is winning games, is that really what your life's potential is? And Speaker 3 (9:37) it's not a judgment. I'm just genuinely curious. Speaker 2 (9:39) No, no. But compassion for other people, helping other people. Could we do more like we have a Knicks Kids Foundation? Could we be doing more to help other people? Have I helped our family enough? Have I been a good parent? You know, when you talk about all those things, not. how many games you won you always think that hell there's a lot of things i could have done better and um that's what i sort of constantly try to be a better person set a better example for people be a better leader help people create value for themselves show people that you care about them i mean all those things are really really important to me because my goal as a coach was always How can I help these guys have a better chance to be more successful in life? So it was a lot of personal development, importance of getting an education. How do you develop the habits on the field to reach your full potential? So that's where, you know, I spent most of my time. But now, not coaching, I still look at other people and how can we impact the future? And, you know, just like we're building Saban Center, which is, you know, Speaker 2 (10:51) student center for young kids growing up. It's going to be our legacy, you know, in Tuscaloosa. So how can we impact education and career development in young people? So all those things. Could you have done those better? I think I probably could have. And will continue to try to do it the rest of my life. Do you feel Speaker 3 (11:12) like you've been kind of like a perfectionist? I know that's just a word that people throw around. Like, do you feel like you're a perfectionist kind of? Speaker 2 (11:19) It's not a judgment Speaker 3 (11:20) of you. No, I Speaker 2 (11:21) do. Just curious about it because I want Speaker 3 (11:23) to explore that because there's not a lot of people you can explore kind of that term with sometimes. Yeah. Speaker 2 (11:26) So Speaker 3 (11:26) that's why I'm asking. Speaker 2 (11:27) But I think that, you know, and this is kind of in a documentary, but, you know, when I was a kid growing up, having compassion for other people was really important. Accountability was really important. In other words, if you had a job to do and you didn't do it exactly right, you're going to do it over again. So you learn how to be accountable. But one thing that, you know, my parents always emphasized is, It wasn't about winning or beating the other guy. It was about... Did you do it as well as you were capable of doing it? So, I mean, we won 30 games in a row when I was in high school or something like that and won the state championship, and that was never good enough. And I asked my mom once, why is it never good enough? And she said, it's not about winning the game. It's not about beating the other guy. It's about did you do it as well as you're capable of doing it. So that. that makes you kind of a perfectionist. Right, because the competition is always you. It's always you. And the other thing that that instilled in me was I never had what I call relief syndrome, which is, you know, it's kind of human nature. If you do something of significance, you think you're supposed to be able to rest on your laurels. Yeah. And we kind of promote that in society. We promote it in business. Even players, you know, they would win a big game and they'd say, Can we have Monday off practice? Speaker 2 (12:46) We get rewarded for winning this big game. Well, I'm thinking about how we're going to win the next game. Right. And did we play well enough in that game to win the next game? And what do we need to improve on? So I never, ever developed that. Speaker 2 (13:02) rest on your laurels because I was never allowed to. And it goes back to that word that you're talking about. You can never be perfect, but you're always trying to close the gap on perfect. Speaker 3 (13:13) And I Speaker 2 (13:14) think great competitors, whether it's Kobe Bryant, Tiger Woods, you know, Michael Jordan, you know, those guys could always take the next challenge, man. It didn't matter how much they won or what they did. And that's how I wanted our teams to be able to compete. And I felt like I had to set that example. So if I'm satisfied and I'm. thinking everything's good. We don't have to focus on attention to detail and prepare for this game the right way. And, you know, there was actually two times at Alabama we won 19 games in a row, and we lost the 20th game. And we didn't play very well in either one of those games, not to take anything away from who beat us, and it was all because of complacency, blatant disregard for doing what's right. You're complacent. And then you start developing bad habits, and it starts showing up in your performance. I spent a lifetime trying to avoid that and never got it done. Not the way. Speaker 2 (14:13) Won 19 in games in a row twice and couldn't keep it going. I mean, some would describe that as keeping it going, though, you Speaker 3 (14:19) know? But I understand. I understand what you're saying. Do you think it's tough for you to feel success? I know it's kind of a similar question, but I always have a tough time feeling the success. I feel like a perfectionist, or I feel like I am a lot of times. I know this haircut doesn't really say that, but... What's under it does though. And I feel like that a lot of times. I just feel like it's hard for me to have fun sometimes because perfection doesn't really allow a lot of space for fun. There's just not a Speaker 2 (14:48) lot of room for it. Well, but I don't think I had a lot of fun because the fun of it is winning. That's the fun. Getting ready and doing all the things it takes to win is not that much fun. Speaker 3 (15:01) But Speaker 2 (15:01) to your point, Speaker 3 (15:03) when you Speaker 2 (15:03) think like you think and like I think, and you are as successful as you are because of the way you think, incidentally, success is not a continuum. It's momentary. And if there's anything that you've done in the past that you think is going to impact the future, you're infected with success. You know, I mean, you want to be a flash in the pan and say, I can do something exceptional once. but have no conception of how to do it on a consistent basis. So I always define consistency for our players. Consistency success is consistency and performance. And that's what I wanted our players to think. You know, a great example of that is we won the first national championship at Alabama in 2009. We won the Rose Bowl, beat Texas. Everybody's excited. Everybody's celebrating. We have this big celebration in the stadium. and I don't know how many people were there. It was pretty full. And I get up and I said, this is not the end. This is the beginning. And I was sending a message. You know, we created a new horizon, a new expectation. So we've got to look ahead to what we have to do to continue to get better. It's like climbing a mountain. You know, once you climb the mountain successfully, you become the mountain. So everybody's shooting at you. How did you do it? What do we need to do to change? How are we going to beat those guys? Well, if you don't keep improving, it's not going to happen. I mean, they're going to get you. They're going to get you. And that's hard to get people to understand. But you understand it, and that's why you don't have so much fun. I didn't have that much fun for 50 years. I didn't have that much fun. I enjoyed winning. I hated losing more than I liked winning. So I was always trying to avoid. The setbacks. Yeah. And looking forward to what I had to do and have the foresight to know what we had to do to be successful in the future. Speaker 3 (17:03) Yeah, it's interesting because yeah, once you find success one way, other people are going to gravitate towards it or you've already done it. So you also need to set a new challenge for yourself. But then what's interesting about you is to go inside of what you'd already done and kind of look at the pieces of it and be like, what worked really well here? What can still evolve and what can be different? That's an intense level of Speaker 2 (17:24) scrutiny, I think. Well, but to me, there's two parts to that. First of all, we changed how we played football through the years. We changed the way we played offense. We used to run the ball and play good defense. We won championships doing that. Then we went to the spread. We went to no huddle. We went fast through RPOs and all that stuff, which is what the rule changes. That was what you needed to do. Well, we didn't play as good on defense because we played a lot more plays. And the other team scored more points, but we scored more points too. So we technically changed how we played the game to take advantage of rule changes. Got it. But we never changed the culture of what it took to be successful. The togetherness as a team, positive energy, positive attitude, accountability, be responsible to do your job. What do you have to do to dominate the competition? That never changed. That never changed. But football, the technical parts of it, sometimes change. Was there, like, Speaker 3 (18:28) I'm trying to think about, like, having fun. Like, have you ever been on a water slide or anything like that? Speaker 2 (18:32) Oh, yeah. You have? Oh, I know how to do all that now. I got thrown out of the water slides most of the time. Did you? We used to go on Senator Manchin, you know, who was the U.S. Senator from West Virginia for Speaker 3 (18:43) a long time. Speaker 2 (18:43) Oh, Senator Manchin, Speaker 3 (18:43) yeah, yeah. He's in your documentary. Speaker 2 (18:45) Yeah, so, yeah, well, we used to go on vacation. We both went to Myrtle Beach. But we never, ever made it through a summer without getting kicked out of the water slide. What were y'all doing on there? Speaker 1 (18:57) You Speaker 2 (18:57) know, doubles Speaker 3 (18:58) and Speaker 2 (18:58) triples and running over Speaker 3 (18:59) people. Oh, yeah. Yeah, sometimes we'd get there early and just run down it. Like they had one kind of bus and it was a water slide, but it was almost not going to be like at any moment, you know. And it was just like a tetanus shot. Like it was kind of a safety hazard, I think. But we would get there early and run down it right before they started the water and that was always a good time. And I was just curious if you're able to also have like other types of fun outside of. outside of football and what that's like for you? I Speaker 2 (19:26) think that's the one thing that I learned through the years. I think there was a time when I was an assistant coach when I didn't do that very well. It was work, work, work, work, take your work home, never, ever be able to separate. But when