843: Kwame Onwuachi on Pitching Investors, Cooking All Hours, and Golf Taking Over His Life

This Is TASTE

Host Matt Rodbard and Aliza Barbanal open with a culinary tour of New Mexico before interviewing Chef Kwame Onwuachi. The conversation explo

Key takeaways

• Kwame Onswachi is developing a CPG business to bring frozen Jamaican patties to retail grocery stores.
• Onwuachi's restaurant Tatiana is focusing on authenticity and staff reinvigoration rather than chasing trends.

Main topics

• New Mexico culinary highlights
• Kwame Onwuachi's restaurant empire

Notable quotes

I consider myself a human first and foremost.

Conclusion

An insightful look into how high-level culinary talent balances restau

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:07) All-purpose Italian seasoning is good. Nothing wrong with it. Everybody needs to stop fronting. Like, all this stuff is good. Speaker 1 (0:15) Be Speaker 2 (0:15) honest with us. What do we Speaker 3 (0:17) actually Speaker 2 (0:17) eat? Speaker 3 (0:18) Or what fulfills us and what fulfills our soul when we eat? Yeah. And that's what this book is really about. That's Speaker 2 (0:24) what Speaker 3 (0:24) I'm trying to say. I'm trying to show people how I actually eat. Speaker 2 (0:28) This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbard. Speaker 2 (0:35) Kwame Nwache, the chef behind Tatiana, Dogan, and Restaurants from Miami to Las Vegas, joins me in the studio for the very first time. On this episode, we get into his big ideas for the CPG game, his pull towards Ethiopian cooking, and we talk about his three books, capped by all hours, less a cookbook and more the documentation of what he actually wants to cook every single day. I hope you enjoy this episode. And at the top of the show, it's the return of Three Things, where Eliza and I talk about what is exciting us in the world of restaurants, cookbooks, and the food world as a whole. Eliza, we are back with Three Things. How are you doing? Speaker 1 (1:18) I'm doing well, Matt. I'm back from the land of enchantment, New Mexico. Oh Speaker 2 (1:22) my gosh, the land of green chilies. I've Speaker 1 (1:24) been once before, but being back in New Mexico, I really think it's one of the most beautiful places I've been in my life. Speaker 2 (1:29) I have to second that. It's incredible. I've been to Santa Fe and Albuquerque and driven around some of the places you were at. How about you start? Speaker 1 (1:36) Okay, I'll do my first thing, which is a breakfast taco truck that I went to in Santa Fe called El Chile Torrenado, which is like the fighting chilies using the Spanish bullfighting word for fighting. And they do burritos and tacos. They've been doing it for almost 20 years. And in 2023, they were a James Beard Foundation semifinalist, which is, I think, cool to see like an institution getting credit in that kind of way. And I had probably my favorite breakfast burrito that I've ever had there. Speaker 2 (2:04) As a Californian. Speaker 1 (2:06) Yes. But here's the thing. Speaker 1 (2:08) As some people know, I don't like eggs. So my breakfast burritos are not the average breakfast burrito, but everyone else I was with, you know, went that full route and enjoyed it. But I got this burrito that they do called the Mexican veggie burrito that has pinto beans, New Mexico hatch, green chili, of course, potatoes, Monterey Jack cheese, pico de gallo. It was so good. And my girlfriend, Shirley, kept accidentally eating it because we had all the burritos in the same bag. Speaker 2 (2:33) Accidentally. There Speaker 1 (2:34) were two different moments when she started eating my burrito and kept on being like, wow, this is even better than the last time I had it. Because she had like a meaty, eggy kind of burrito. And you were not Speaker 2 (2:43) willing to trade. Speaker 1 (2:44) Well, I didn't want to trade because... I was hungry, but then I would look over and I would see like a little bit of zucchini or like one of the veggies that was in my burrito kind of like peeking out of the corner and then I'd have to snatch it back from her. So even the meat, egg, breakfast burrito lovers were enjoying this one. They also do barbacoa, buche, like all kinds of meaty kind of foods, especially in the early afternoon. And I went right before the airport and it was like the perfect kind of Speaker 2 (3:08) closing Speaker 1 (3:09) thing to eat before I drove back to Albuquerque. Speaker 2 (3:11) Oh my gosh. So Santa Fe thoughts. I mean, I think Santa Speaker 1 (3:15) Fe is beautiful. I've been once before for Christmas, which is actually a really nice time to go there. They have a lot of interesting kind of cultural traditions there. And we really only spent the night in Santa Fe, but I think it's always fun to go there. You Speaker 2 (3:26) can also have your burrito Christmas style. Speaker 1 (3:29) Yeah. So Christmas is like red and green salsa at the same time. This was not like a smothered burrito in the way that they do often in New Mexico. This was like a handheld self-contained burrito. But I'll mention some of the other. Yeah. more smothered burritos that I had as well. Speaker 2 (3:45) I'm sure you have more to say. Speaker 1 (3:47) Yes. What's your first thing? Speaker 2 (3:48) My first thing is a product I've gone back to many times when at Platform, that pier over by the meatpacking district, there's a bunch of great restaurants there and within this food hall. And I love going to Basu. I love that restaurant. They have great fried chicken and karaage and great sandwiches and some bowls. But really, every time I'm there, I grab a bag of their their miso caramel popcorn. Speaker 2 (4:17) And I love it. It is like truly my favorite popcorn. So Betsy was from Miyako Kyogoku and really love what she has represented in the industry for a decade. And we've caught up a couple times over the years. And really, this CPG needs to go huge. It's like the best Cracker Jack you're going to find. There's, you know, it's caramel corn made with red miso, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, and white sesame and finished with salt and vanilla. And it is delicious. It's available now at JFK. So if you're flying out, you can find the Bessu brand there. I'm not sure which terminal. Terminal 4. And really, there's other flavors. There's a shiso sour cream, a nori crunch, and a black sesame soy butter. I haven't tried all of those. Wow. But I want to. I love the branding. It's just such a great popcorn. And that's from Bessu. Speaker 1 (5:08) I love the sound of that. Oh, I Speaker 2 (5:10) think you'll love it. I'm going to get a bag. I'm going to bring one into the studio. Speaker 1 (5:12) I would love that. My next New Mexico recommendation is a true Albuquerque institution called Frontier that's been open on Route 66 since 1971, right across from one of the universities there. And they're famous for a couple things. Fresh squeezed orange juice, their house-made flour tortillas that they're doing enchiladas with and burritos and things of that nature. And most of interest to me, the famous Frontier sweet roll, which is a big... Buttery cinnamon roll that is smothered in this like sweet sticky sugar glaze, but then griddled with butter. So it comes to the table and it just kind of has this froth, this halo of butter on top of it. It's so soft and squishy. And we got one for the table and then kind of immediately had to get a second because they just were Speaker 3 (5:57) so Speaker 1 (5:57) good. They do sell them online. I think you probably have to like griddle them yourself to get the full effect. But I love getting to go to a really classic. regional restaurant. And I think like walking into Frontier, it was like the New Mexico Albuquerque experience that I really wanted. And the sweet roll really did live up to the hype for me. Speaker 2 (6:16) I'm like dying to try this. I think it's like a great reminder to griddle your baked goods. Yes, totally. Speaker 1 (6:22) Or, you know, if someone has a waffle iron, I do not. But every winter I think about getting a waffle iron and I have, you know. waffle ironed a Cinnabon before to great effect. So that would be nice too. I Speaker 2 (6:33) love that waffling a Cinnabon. I feel that's amazing. But just throwing a bunch of butter in a pan and kind of pressing it a little bit too. If you're like your baked good is like maybe a day. late, you know, a little stale. Speaker 1 (6:45) Yes. In this case, like I really think it's just warmed in the butter because it doesn't have like a crispy quality. It has that kind of soft gooey quality to it. I also got a breakfast plate that had a green chili enchilada and a hard shell taco and some beans and rice together, which I think was good. But I think the sweet roll is probably the most kind of distinctive thing. Speaker 2 (7:05) I really want this right now. Speaker 1 (7:08) What's your next thing? Speaker 2 (7:09) My next thing is I had a great meal at E Cavallini. I hadn't been back. I think we all went there in late last year. And so it's been about six, seven months. And, you know, the late summer visit to E Cavallini, I cannot recommend it more. A reminder, this is the restaurant from Nick Cartola of Four Horsemen. The restaurant translates to The Little Horses. And I had some great dishes. I had a spicy bluefin crudo on crostini with date butter and this perfectly scored little Japanese sardine with dried datarini tomatoes and these like neat little batons of cultured butter, like three little batons. So it's like, you know, this sardine and butter and these little dried tomatoes. Perfect little bite. I love this cucumber salad cold with colatura, which is the Roman style fish sauce. Really creamy and delicious. And had some fried squash blossoms. And then on the pasta front, there was this really great tortelli. that I just thought was filled with like a vegetable, like a leafy vegetable. And then there was the limon, like some of the really known for the pasta limon, the spaghetti limon finished with a sundae. And really like this is hitting on all cylinders right now. I love Cavallini and I think late summer, early fall is the perfect time because we remember September and October is still summer when it comes to produce. And it's the best time to eat at restaurants in New York, I believe. Speaker 1 (8:41) A good endorsement. Yeah. Speaker 2 (8:42) What's your lesson? Speaker 1 (8:44) I want to just talk about two quick other things I really liked in Santa Fe. The first is El Rey Court, which is this really cute hotel that I stayed at in Santa Fe. It's a remodeled Route 66 hotel that has so many architectural features that I admire, such as really beautiful old Spanish style tiling, like mosaics on all of the walls. They have court in that name, right? So it's kind of like a... ranch-style low buildings that are all around the center area that has a nice kind of park strip to sit in and just really thoughtful redesign after staying in like a pretty rustic hotel up at Ghost Ranch for a couple days. It was really nice to go somewhere that was like very aesthetically pleasing. And yes, we did take a lot of photos, but it was like a nice little... bar inside called Lorena that has mezcal cocktails and things of that nature. And then for dinner, also, I really love this restaurant called Tune Up Cafe. That's kind of a Santa Fe institution that was featured on Diners, Drive-Ins, and Dives. Okay. So you know it has taste. But I wouldn't say it's like, it feels very like... indie coffee shop restaurant kind of vibe. Like you can sit outside, you can sit inside. They're open all day. And I got mole negro chicken enchiladas that I enjoyed. But the best thing that my friends ordered that I was furious that I didn't get was the pupusas that they were doing. And they did a Salvadorian plate that had a tamal, pupusa, rice and beans together. These pupusas. And I grew up in L.A. and I've eaten a lot of pupusas are some of the best I've ever had. And one of the reasons why is that they're kind of griddling them on the flat top after before, like just kind of giving it to you steamed. And it has this crispy kind of external side and then the curtidos law and crema on top. And I was so furious. I almost ordered like an extra. a la carte pupusa, but, you know, the portion sizes in New Mexico were quite large. So I really felt like I needed to focus on my enchiladas. But I would definitely recommend going back and ordering the pupusas there. Speaker 2 (10:40) You really got a great survey of New Mexico and Santa Fe in particular. I Speaker 1 (10:43) tried, you know, I think like... There's so much to do there. And I had great jerky. I had great jalapeno corn nuts. I definitely felt like I had to come back home and eat a lot of raw lettuce afterwards. But, you know, that's how you know you've had a good time. It's a Speaker 2 (10:57) beautiful place. What's Speaker 1 (10:59) your Speaker 2 (10:59) last thing? The last thing is it's a book I've been really light on reading this year. And I'm working on a large project here at Taste. And we're all working on it. And it's been taking away from my reading. So I hope at the end of the year we can come together and talk about what we've read. We've done that every year. I'm sorry, I have a lot to