Ray Winstone

This Cultural Life

In this episode of This Cultural Life, actor Ray Winstone reflects on his journey from a schoolboy boxer in East London to an international

Key takeaways

• Winstable's early childhood was defined by playing in bombed-out sites in East London following the war.
• He credits the Repton Boxing Club for teaching him respect and a sense of community that transcended social divides.

Main topics

• East London childhood
• Boxing and discipline

Notable quotes

If the world was run like a boxing club, we wouldn't have any problems.

Conclusion

The episode provides an inspiring look at how personal heritage and ph

Transcript preview

Speaker 5 (0:06) Welcome to This Cultural Life, the series in which leading artistic figures discuss the influences and experiences that most inspired their own creativity. I'm John Wilson, and my guest in this episode is the actor Ray Winston. A schoolboy boxing champion, he built a reputation playing tough working-class characters after being cast in the Borstal drama Scum at the age of 17. Winston won huge acclaim for his performance as an alcoholic, abusive husband in the film Nill by Mouth, directed by Gary Oldman, and Jonathan Glazer's sexy beast in which he played a bank robber forced out of retirement. Other big-screen roles include the Martin Scorsese The Gentleman Speaker 4 (1:03) Ray Winston, welcome Speaker 5 (1:04) to This Cultural Life. Thank you very much. You were born in East London in 1957. What are your earliest memories of home life growing Speaker 4 (1:12) up? My early life was Timbales, you know, outside toilet. Right. They were the days. And when you used to walk to school, there was all bombed houses. It was from the war. It was 12 years after the war. And you played in those bomb sites. Yeah. That was the playground, you know. I remember one of our mates had an accident on the bomb site. And the police used to come along, the old Bobby, local Bobby. He used to give you a clip around the ear and send you home. It's for playing in there. But there was a bike on there and the spoke went in his eye and knocked his eye out. And so when we went to school, we used to go for him. All the kids used to stand outside waiting for him. And we'd watch his mum put in the glass eye. That was the early days. But you kind of realise from that part of London, because it was the docks down the road. You know, Silver Town, Canning Town and all that. When you went on a Red Rover as a kid, you know, 10 years away, 11 years away, you was going all over London on a Red Rover ticket. You could do it then. I'm not saying there weren't bad people around, we just didn't know about it because the news reports, you weren't getting it on the news. So a happy childhood. Yeah, and it was a freedom. It was a freedom about moving around. What did your parents do? My dad was, like my uncles, a lot of my uncles were in the meat market. Smithfield? Yeah. My dad, he was in the meat market to start with, then ended up in the fruit game. Uncles were in the fish market and the meat market. So, you know, there was always parcels. We were very, very lucky. Although people probably weren't earning a lot of money at the time, I think the average wage was about 16 quid a week. Speaker 5 (2:50) But you always ate well. Speaker 4 (2:51) Yeah. Speaker 5 (2:51) And you moved to Enfield in North London at the age, I think... Speaker 4 (2:55) At about eight? So did that feel... Eight and nine, ten, something around. But that came about because without my dad knowing... See, I couldn't read till I was about 11 properly, you know. The education where I was was two years behind. I realised that when I moved to the school in North London, you know. But my mum actually bought a house. She was very savvy, you know, just on the borders of Winsmore Hill and Enfield. bought this house, a George Reid house, for four and a half grand, which was a lot of money in them days. My dad didn't even know. She said, we're moving. And he went, all right. Because he'd been happy in renting accommodation, the old man. Speaker 5 (3:34) But if you're moving from West Ham, from Plastow, from the East End to leafy Speaker 4 (3:40) Winchmore Hill, the suburbs, did it feel like a cultural change? Yeah, absolutely. I just felt like I was a bit different over there. It was like alien. Were you treated differently? Yeah, I think so. Because, you know, I wasn't very intellectual at school. Did you speak differently to the other kids? Even though you've only moved, what, three or four miles north? Yeah, absolutely. I missed home. Speaker 5 (4:08) On This Cultural Life, Ray Winston, my guests choose the most important influences and experiences that have inspired their own creative lives. And your first choice for this programme is boxing. You joined the famous Repton Boxing Club in East London, I think at the age of 12. Who got you into Speaker 4 (4:24) boxing in the first place? I think, it seems to me, I don't know whether this is correct, but in a lot of cultures, especially in North London, they talk about football and birds. That's what guys do, you know, talk about football and girls, right? I think in the East End they talk about boxing and girls. Boxing for me was, my dad, he boxed. My grandfather boxed. Everyone around us, you know, uncles and that, they all boxed. It was expected. It was almost like you had to learn how to look after yourself. But I think the difference with boxing as a sport is it teaches you something else. It teaches you respect. For your opponent, it teaches you. Being in a boxing club is, I don't know how you can explain it. It's like everyone in that club comes from all walks of life, all creeds, all religions, and that goes out the window. As you walk through the door, it all goes out the window. Cultural melting pot. Yeah, and don't even think about it. That's your club mate. That's your friend. You're all there to do the same thing. You all spar together, you work together, you play together. And for me, if the world was run like a boxing club, we wouldn't have any problems. Was it discipline as well? Was that what was important? Yeah, I mean, I wasn't the greatest trainer in the world, I have to be honest. But I loved the sparring, and that's when you kind of learn what it's all about. I remember my first senior boxing match. I'd boxed as a junior quite a bit. And when you turn 17, you become a senior. Now, that means you can fight people up to the age of 35. Now, when I was 17, I looked like I was 12. I didn't have a hair on me legs or anything, you know. But I remember walking towards the ring in this first fight as a senior. And I looked in the ring and there was this guy. He had tattoos. Don't forget, tattoos. And hairy legs, like a tarantula. And he was a man, you know. I'm still a boy, you know. my God, the size of him. And you know at that point whether you're going to win the fight or you're not going to win the fight. And I think that's the same for every fighter. Before you've thrown a punch. Yeah, before you've even got in a ring. But there's something about boxing that you learn and you carry this on into life. You have to dig deep and find something else to overcome that. Speaker 5 (6:48) Well, this is what I was going to ask. What are the transferable skills that you take from the gym, from the boxing ring to the theatre stage or Speaker 4 (6:55) the film set? It's that thing of picking up a script and it's a bit alien to you. The penny has to drop somewhere. And the penny can only drop when you take a deep breath after all the doubts in your head and you go, I can't do this. I can't do it. And then something inside you goes... Yes, I can. I can do that. Because I can't hang you for it. If you get it wrong, OK, that's happened. So it's self Speaker 5 (7:25) -confidence then? It's a Speaker 4 (7:26) self-belief? It's a self Speaker 5 (7:27) -belief. It's a self-belief that you have to find. You have to believe in yourself, you know, before anything else. The thing is, in the boxing ring, if you get it wrong, you get hurt. Well, it's one-on-one. Speaker 4 (7:37) You see, it's one-on-one. Speaker 5 (7:38) Yeah, but what happens? What's the worst that could happen? What's the worst that has happened? You get Speaker 4 (7:42) beat. Get knocked out. No, but on the film set, on the stage. You get beat, you get knocked out. But that's... No, but it feels the same. Does it? When you actually play a part... and you haven't got it right, when you go and watch the film, when this happens, you go and watch the film, you feel like you've been knocked out. Do you not instinctively know as you're delivering the lines whether you're nailing it? No, not always. I'm a believer in the camera does lie. It does lie, because I can feel all the emotions in the world. If you don't understand what that shot is and what they want from that shot, and that's up to you to find out, then you can get it totally, totally wrong. And I have done. that's when it feels like you've just been hit on the chin and you go over. Because there's only one person to blame there. You can say, oh, the director could have marked my car, he could have said this. You can only blame yourself, and you must blame yourself as Speaker 5 (8:31) well. And when you are the particular films that you either, you want to just kind of forget on... No, but it's a Speaker 4 (8:36) bit unfair because... Or performances. Yeah, but it's Speaker 5 (8:37) a Speaker 4 (8:37) bit unfair to say because, for me, there's other people who really believe in that film and I wouldn't want to... Mm-hm. actually take anything away from them, you know. Speaker 5 (8:47) I read that you fought, I think, 88 times. You won 80 fights. Yeah. So you were a good Speaker 4 (8:52) boxer. I was all right. I was a novice, you know. I had other things I wanted to do. To be a champion or be a pro, you've got to have something extra in you. In Speaker 5 (9:02) 2017, you were in the film Jawbone, which was written and starred another former boxer. Johnny Harris. Johnny Harris. And you were playing a veteran gym owner and trainer. Were you drawing on your own memories of father figures in the ring? Speaker 4 (9:16) I was drawing on Tony Burns, who was my trainer. He was the guy that ran... Mickey Carney, who ran Fitzroy Lodge as well, who was Johnny's trainer. I knew both men. Two men, for John and for me, that actually guided us. Going to a boxing club's not about becoming a champion. You find something else, you know. And these men, in a very cold, dry way, you know, they'll never give you an inch. They only say what needs to be said. And if you ain't done something right, they let you know. I actually enjoyed that because, you know, it's like my dad said to me once. It's old school. He phoned me up and you don't get much, you know, well done, son, you know, or arms around, you know, with that old generation, you know. I'd done Sweeney Todd and I got a phone call from the old man. He's phoned up and he said, hello, son. I went, hello, Dad. He went, Ray, Ray. He said, I've just seen Sweeney Todd. I went, yeah. I thought, here it comes, right? He said, that's the best thing you've ever done. He said, that was wonderful. And so I was shocked, you know, surprised. And in the same breath, he said, it's better than all the other shit you do. So it was like putting your arms around you, kissing you and then headbutting you at the same time. But that generates... And that makes me laugh because I know what he actually means to say. I know what he means. And Speaker 5 (10:45) that was a film version that you did in 2006? Yeah, it was a one-off. Not the musical? Speaker 4 (10:48) No, it's not Speaker 5 (10:50) singing for me, oh darling. Have you ever sung? Yeah. You can sing? Yeah, I used to be. I have too many cigars now. Speaker 5 (11:00) When you were 17, you enrolled in drama school. What took you there in the first place? I think my mum and Speaker 4 (11:07) dad to keep me off the streets. I'd done a school play. The only reason I'd done a school play is that I fancied one of the girls in the play,