317. Plot Twist: The Second Story Hiding Inside Every Great Pitch
Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques
In this episode of 'Think Fast Talk Smart,' host Matt Abrahams interviews acclaimed screenwriter Rhett Reese, known for hits like Deadpool and
Key takeaways
- Every pitch contains two stories: the story of the idea and the story of the listener's success if they invest in it.
Main topics
- Dual storytelling in pitching
- Rhythm and timing in communication
Notable quotes
We're selling with two stories: the actual story we're selling, and the second story where the executive is the protagonist.
Conclusion
Rhett Reese's insights reveal that great communication isn't just about conveying information—it's about
Transcript preview
Speaker 2 (0:00) Hi, Matt here. I wanted to remind you that for each episode, we provide English language learning support, where we share useful information to help you develop your English skills. Check out these English language learning and other resources, along with our newsletter and deep dive videos at fastersmarter.io under resources. Now a word from our sponsors. Their support covers the cost of production, allowing us to bring you this episode free of charge. Speaker 2 (0:27) Strawberry.me makes coaching accessible, affordable, and global, connecting you with a coach who's the right fit for you. I've had the privilege of working with some truly great coaches, and I've also spent many years coaching others. And I can tell you firsthand, coaching makes a real difference. The challenge is that coaching has often felt out of reach for a lot of people. It can be expensive, difficult to access, or something people assume is only for senior executives. That's why I really appreciate what Strawberry.me is doing. Growth shouldn't depend on whether you happen to have access to the right mentor or organization. Everyone deserves support in becoming more effective, more thoughtful, and more confident in how they show up. Visit Strawberry.me slash smart and take 50 % off your first session. Make sure you let them know Matt sent you. That's strawberry.me slash smart. And now back to our conversation. When communicating, there are often two stories being told at the same time. My name is Matt Abrahams, and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. Speaker 2 (1:41) Today, I'm excited to speak with Rhett Reese. Rhett is an acclaimed American screenwriter and producer best known for co-writing massive blockbuster hits like Deadpool, Zombieland, and G.I. Joe Retaliation. Alongside his longtime collaborative partner, Paul Wernick, together, their films have grossed over $3 billion. Rhett has also been very vocal on the impact of AI on films and television. Well, welcome, Rhett. Not only am I a huge fan of yours, We go way back. Speaker 1 (2:12) We do. And I'm so happy you had me so we could catch up because we do. We go back all the way to the psychology department as undergrads. At Stanford, Speaker 2 (2:20) we had a professor, Phil Zimbardo, who was a guest on the show, and he would have people take tests in pairs. And we were actually, we took tests together and I'm sure you carried me. Speaker 1 (2:30) We reached out to each other as a lifeline, I think. We got an A, I remember. We did very well on that test. It was Speaker 2 (2:36) a great class. Well, I really appreciate you Speaker 1 (2:38) being here. Thank Speaker 2 (2:38) you. Speaker 1 (2:39) Thank you for having me. Yeah. Speaker 2 (2:40) Shall we get? started? Speaker 1 (2:40) Yes, let's do it. Speaker 2 (2:42) So you've had an amazingly well-accomplished career. Congratulations. And you are known for very witty and punchy lines. I'm curious, how do you toggle being really concise and clear and getting ideas across, but at the same time being playful and allowing for that spontaneity that you're known for? Speaker 1 (3:02) Well, I mean, I do think that comedy, much like other forms of communication, is best delivered in short bursts. I do. And I am pretty ruthless when it comes to reducing a line to its absolute essential, you know, number of words and its comedic elements. And when we write comedy, we tend to try to find a rhythm that ends with the funniest word of the sentence. So for instance, we try not to write past our punchline or to write past the funniest word, because when you're hearing a joke, you are hearing a setup, a setup, a setup, and then the word that contains the surprise or the twist or the humorous thing that makes you laugh. And the rhythm is very much like boom, like that. You know, it comes at the end of the sentence. And if you write past that, if you write a line that has the funniest word. not at the very end, but near the end, and you write extra words, I think what happens to the brain is that the brain hears the funny word. It wants to laugh, but then it hears subsequent words. It needs to assimilate those words and understand what's being communicated there. And I think it somewhat muffles or mutes the comedy. We really try, whenever we write a line that's intended to be funny, to pare it down to its bare minimum, A, and then B, have it finished with the funniest word. And that has held us in pretty good stead, that strategy. Speaker 2 (4:27) And those very same rules apply to writing presentations, pitches. Absolutely. This is like a reunion show. Hillary Price, who is a Stanford undergrad with us as well, writes the single panel comic strip Rhymes with Orange. She talks very similarly to you about. whittling it down to what's the essence of the most important part, the humor. Because if you think about a one panel, you do that right away. Speaker 1 (4:52) You don't have Speaker 2 (4:52) a lot of time. But it's the same idea that you have to be thinking about the exact word, the placement of the word. So you're echoing that advice that as we think through our communication, many of us just want to get that information out there, but you can be very strategic about that. And I appreciate that. Let's talk about pitching because you've had to pitch a lot of movies. Do you... Beyond sort of seeing it as a story, which I think is really important and taking people on that journey, what other advice and guidance do you have and have you learned in the pitching that you do? Speaker 1 (5:21) Well, one of the things I would say is that we're all salespeople at the end of the day. Everybody who works in freelance work certainly is. And so we're selling. When we go into that room, we're selling. And we're selling with two stories, really. The first story is the actual story we're selling, right? And we... treat it very much like a campfire story. Like we're sitting at a campfire. When I say we, I've got a writing partner. We are sitting around a campfire and there's someone opposite us and it's at camp late at night and we are telling them a story and we really treat it as such where we take the listeners needs into account. We try to keep it short and fun and funny and exciting and it builds and it has a climax just like the actual screenplay. So that's one story we're telling. And then I think the second story we're telling, which is a subtle one, is one in which the executive to whom we're pitching is the protagonist. And we are basically pitching them a story of their success should they buy this project, if that makes sense. No, absolutely. So everybody has got their own problems and their own challenges. And an executive's problem and challenge is. I've only got so much money and I've got to spend it in ways that are beneficial to my company. I've got to buy the right ideas and I've got to make hits. And in order to do that, I have to place faith in the right people. And so I think part of what we do is sort of pitching them a vision that, hey, we know what we're doing. You're in really good hands. You have a problem. You need good movies, right? Like we are the solution to that problem. If you decide to. hire us, if you decide to buy this pitch, it is going to lead to you in your life having greater success. It is going to pay off down the road. You are going to see a vision where you, the protagonist of your story, succeed and win out, so to speak. And I think that is the second story that's very subtly being worked in, not in a manipulative way, but in a way that just says, look, I'm here. because I have an idea