Episode 577: Helping Kids Navigate the Messy Side of Friendship
The Whinypaluza Podcast
In Episode 577 of The Whinypaluza Podcast, Rebecca Greene interviews Jessica Speer, an award-winning author and parenting expert, about helping
Key takeaways
- Friendship conflicts are normal and part of learning social-emotional skills; they don't indicate a child is inherently 'bad'.
- Parents should listen without judgment and help teens practice healthy ways to express themselves, such as using gentle language like 'I feel frustrated because I want to be heard.'
Main topics
- Navigating friendship conflicts in middle school
- Social-emotional development in teens
Notable quotes
"Don't shrink, don't puff up, just stand your sacred ground." – Brené Brown
Conclusion
Parents play a crucial role in helping children navigate friendship challenges by
Transcript preview
Speaker 3 (0:00) No need for whiners, why need for boozers? Speaker 2 (0:04) Have some wine and join us on the Whiny Palooza Podcast with Rebecca Green. Welcome Speaker 3 (0:10) to the Whiny Palooza Podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Green. I'm a wife, mother of three, and licensed clinical social worker. I also have three fur babies at home, too. My passion has always been to help children and their families. I always dreamed of being a wife and a mother. Parents are always learning through their struggles, failures, and successes and joys. I am no stranger to this wild ride of parenting, and I know behind every great parent lies a team of supportive friends and family. I want to be part of your support system. I want you to know that you are not alone. We are in this parenting world together. Join me every week. for insightful discussions with experts on parenting and marriage, as well as other parents who have found the secret to successes in parenthood. You'll learn tips and tricks to make life with your family better than ever. I hope you will follow along with me while we dive into what it takes to Speaker 2 (1:12) achieve a happy family. Speaker 3 (1:15) Hello, everyone. This is Rebecca Green for the Whiny Blues podcast. And I am very excited today because I get to talk to the wonderful Jessica Spear. Jessica, thank you so much for being here with me today. Oh, Speaker 1 (1:28) thank you for having me, Rebecca. I'm so excited to chat with you. Speaker 3 (1:32) We're going to have such a good conversation. This is like. the perfect topic for our listeners. Let me tell you about Jessica. She is an award-winning author, speaker, and parenting resource expert who helps children, tweens, and families navigate friendship, social challenges, and growing up with confidence. Through extensive research and conversations with hundreds of kids and teens, Jessica creates engaging books that combine real-life experiences, practical advice, and interactive activities. BFF or NRF, Not Really Friends, and Middle School, Safety Goggles Advice. Those are like the best titles. She frequently contributes to media outlets on topics including friendship, parenting, social-emotional learning, mindfulness, screen use, and adolescent development. Jessica lives in Colorado with her family. Are you in Colorado right now? Speaker 1 (2:35) I am in Colorado right now, and it's just beautiful. It's a beautiful, almost summer day. Speaker 3 (2:41) That's awesome. Awesome. We finally have some nice weather in Buffalo, New York. Finally. Good. Speaker 1 (2:48) Good. Speaker 3 (2:48) Let's hope it actually stays this time. But now that I've introduced you, everyone knows why I've been so excited to talk to you. And I have to start with the coolest book title ever. Okay. What inspired you to write BFF? Or NRF, Not Really Friends. Speaker 1 (3:07) I know, I know it's Speaker 3 (3:09) a Speaker 1 (3:09) mouthful. BFF or NRF, Not Really Friends. And the subtitle is A Girl's Guide to Happy Friendship. Although the book applies to everybody. And I'm working on a gender neutral one right now. So just putting that out there. That is coming. But what inspired me is I am the mom of two daughters. And I noticed when they were preteens. Friendship started to get complicated, which reminded me of my very own life and my very own experience. So as a social scientist, that got me curious. So I started researching, which led into a friendship program that I ran in schools, which led into that book. I was on a hike one day because I'm in Colorado and I'm thinking, okay, what could I call this book? And I didn't want to go with any of the tropes. I didn't want to go with bully. I didn't want to go with mean girl. I didn't want to go. I just wanted to describe situations where it feels like not really a friendship. So that's where I came up with NRF, not really friends, because to be honest, we've all done that. And so when I speak to schools and kids and parents, Let's recognize that we've all been an NRF at some point in our lives for various reasons. So I approach it from that way with a lot of openness and gentleness. But it's really good to know when we find ourselves in these situations and how can we navigate that? How can we navigate that so we are taking care of ourselves, but also not adding more heaviness and meanness to the world? Speaker 3 (4:45) I love that. I mean, you said so much. And I love the word curious. I love that it made you curious what was going on. So I'm curious, what were you seeing in friendships that was concerning you most? Speaker 1 (5:01) What I'm seeing, and as we dive into this, I'm actually also studying mental health counseling. So I've got a master's in social sciences, and I'm finishing another one in mental health counseling. I've been deep into human behavior for a long time. And so what, you know, sometimes we as humans want to just jump in and categorize people and, you know, put blame and, and what's really happening, especially when we're talking about young people is we're people, young people. and adults who are learning skills, who are learning to interact with other complex humans. And we're learning social emotional skills, we're learning conflict resolution. So normally that's what's happening. And what we're layering on top as humans are the stories and the accusations and the emotions. We're complicating all this, but if we pull back, we pull back to the highest level, what we've got are two humans or a group of humans trying to navigate situations the best they can with skills they've got. So what I do in my books is let's talk about those really common stories, those really common things that happen and ways we can go about that because we're learning. We are learning and sometimes we do things because we Speaker 2 (6:12) don't know another way. Speaker 1 (6:13) You know, so yeah, so when I was running groups with kids and a lot of schools run groups off off my books now. The books are like off the shelf, like, you know, skills training. So we practice these things because of course we don't know how to do this until we practice it and learn. So, so how do we stand up for ourself in a way that, you know, we feel good about and also is respectful to the other person? You know, how do we set? boundaries in a kind way. So these are all learned skills. So that was the longest answer to your question. I love Speaker 3 (6:45) it. I love your answer. And I want to tell you, I'm deep in it with teenage girls. And I am just amazed that... I love that you said stand up for yourself because I don't think I was very good at it at their age. And they're so much better at it than I was. So I love seeing that. But it's Speaker 1 (7:06) a Speaker 3 (7:06) skill, like you said, that we have to learn and practice. Speaker 1 (7:10) Yes, yes. And, you know, when I've got two girls that are now 18 and 20 and when they were, you know, younger, I had to learn. found this quote that was so meaningful for all of us because the three of us, we tend to be a little more gentle souls, you know, so we are those that it's a little bit harder for us to do that. So the quote that, you know, got us through was like, don't shrink, don't puff up, just stand your sacred ground. That was, it's a Brene Brown quote, but we would all use that in these moments where like, okay, I need to do this, you know, let me do this in a way that feels really good to me, like to who I am as a person, what do I value. So for the parents listening out there, you'll find a few of those little terms or phrases or quotes that are your go-to, you know, that really resonate with your kids and teens, that resonate with you, and they might give you some inspiration in those moments where we are trying to find the courage to do hard things. Speaker 3 (8:10) Yeah, because we don't want our kids to shrink. We don't want them to huff and puff and say something they'll regret. We want them to learn that middle stand your ground. Yeah, I love that. I will remember that. I'll go teach it to them later. So, okay, so there is normal, there's normal friendship conflict. And there's unhealthy. Speaker 1 (8:33) So Speaker 3 (8:34) as parents, how do we know the difference just to keep our eyes open? Speaker 1 (8:38) Yeah. Okay, so let's, you know, one step back, knowing that it's hard for young people and adults to hear feedback, just knowing that, okay? So we're on a lifelong journey that even if we speak up in the most, you know, graceful, appropriate way, it might be hard for that person to hear that feedback. But we have to try. So if our child or teen is in what the rules that I say that we need to speak up is if there's a behavior that's happening over and over in the relationship that is hurting the relationship, we need to let that person know. And we might need to practice with our kid or teen how they might speak up in a way and the timing of that. And it usually comes from private moments starting from, I, hey, I'm feeling really frustrated because it feels like you're not listening to me sometimes. And I want to feel heard in this relationship. Can you blank your request? So you notice I started gently. I started with I. I said it simply. And I had a request. But, Speaker 2 (9:52) you know, Speaker 1 (9:52) just doing this from experience, that may not land well. You might do that perfectly. So, you know, if the person keeps doing that and you have maybe reminded them a couple of times, it might be time to start pulling back from that. relationship. So that's my advice is that if something is happening repeatedly that's harming the relationship, you have sincerely tried to speak up and let them know and they are still not hearing you, it's time to make a decision. It's time to pull back. It's time to put in a stronger boundary. And, you know, wouldn't we want all of our kids when they come into their adult life to know that, you know, to not... stay in relationships that they're not being treated well. So that's the big picture goal is to realize our kids and everybody else deserves to be treated well in relationship. But we own part of that too. We have to speak up and let our needs be known. Speaker 3 (10:51) Yes. And I do see how complicated this is because there is a friend group. Right. So I will tell you just from what I'm observing as a mom that if someone in the group is maybe rubbing her the wrong way, I don't know that you can leave the friendship, but maybe I could encourage her to be closer with other people in the group. Speaker 1 (11:18) Yep. Right. Yep. And what, okay, so in my first book, the BFF or NRF, Speaker 2 (11:24) there's Speaker 1 (11:25) friendship truths in this book. And one of the friendship truths is you get to decide, you know, which of your friendships to put your energy into. So, so you're right. There's this complicated situation where there's a group and inevitably there's somebody in the group that you don't like that well, as much as the rest of the group. So that is it. tough situation. Do you want to leave the group or do you want to learn how to navigate that group and that person? And so, you know, that's a personal choice. Sometimes if it's so bad, they might choose to leave the group. But often what you've probably seen is that, you know, there's inner conflict in the group and it splits into two and there's taking sides and it gets really ugly. So know... That is going to happen. These are young people. These are young people and it is complicated and messy. So all we can do is keep practicing skills, stay