501: Andy Stumpf—Gray Noise

The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe

In this episode of 'The Way I Heard It,' Mike Rowe sits down with Andy Stumpf, a former Navy SEAL and member of SEAL Team Six. Stumpf shares his extraordinary military career, including surviving

Key takeaways

• Surviving life-threatening injuries requires not just physical recovery but mental fortitude and a deep sense of purpose.
• The BUD/S training program is designed to break candidates mentally and physically, revealing who truly has what it takes to become a SEAL.

Main topics

• Navy SEAL training and selection (BUD/S)
• Combat experiences and survival under fire

Notable quotes

"You need the gray noise, man." – Andy Stumpf on mental clarity under pressure.

Conclusion

Andy Stumpf's story is a powerful testament to human resilience, discipline, and the transformative power of mindset. His

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:03) Hey guys, it's The Way I Heard It. I'm Mike. You know Chuck. Hi Chuck. Hello. You know, there are two kinds of interviews in general. There are probably more than that, but in my experience doing this now, there's the kind that leaves me feeling like I learned a lot from an expert in a subject, and I feel much smarter as a result of talking to this person. And then there's the kind of interview that leaves me... thinking, you know, I had no idea really who this person was. And now I really feel like I know him. Speaker 1 (0:39) Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you spent some time with him and confused him with someone else, I believe. Speaker 2 (0:45) It's such a weird, funny story, and we'll explain it as we go. But my guest is Andy Stumpf. And Andy has done and continues to do one cool thing after the next 18 years as a Navy SEAL. Served with SEAL Team 6. Multiple combat deployments. Lots of, what do you call them? Medals, accommodations. Yeah, I Speaker 1 (1:10) think five Bronze Stars. Five Bronze Speaker 2 (1:12) Stars. Got shot pretty badly. Recovered remarkably. Went back as an instructor in BUDS. BUDS, yeah. He's that guy, you know, and then he gets out of that and then he's like, now what? And jumps out of a plane 8,500 times and gets one of those wingsuits, you know. I've probably seen the videos of these people. Speaker 1 (1:33) They're just Speaker 2 (1:33) flying through these alpine valleys and landing in these meadows all over the world. And you watch these things on YouTube or wherever they pop up and you shake your head and you go, what kind of nut job would do that? This kind of nut job. Yeah. And then, of course, because he's all that and more, he's running a Black Rifle franchise out there in Montana. And he's got a podcast. And the podcast is called Cleared Hot. And I've stumbled across it a few times and just instantly liked the guy. He's just a likable dude who has lived a big life and written a terrific book called Drownproof. Speaker 2 (2:18) And full disclosure, I thought a guy named Greg Stumpf was coming in here, who I met many years ago, a Green Beret. And when I learned it was Andy, I was like, oh, oh, yes. Okay, this will be fine. I figured we'd chat for an hour about this, that, and the other. Two and a half hours later, I was like, I think I barely scratched the surface. But with respect to your time and Chuck's and mine, Speaker 2 (2:47) I cut it short. Speaker 1 (2:50) That was damn decent of you. Speaker 2 (2:53) We're calling this episode Gray Noise because at some point in it, apropos of whatever we were talking about, Andy looked at me and said, you know, man, you need the gray noise. And I'm sitting here trying to remember exactly what I said that would inspire him to say that, and I can't remember. But I like the turn of phrase. So what do you say? Speaker 1 (3:13) Gray noise. Speaker 2 (3:15) You need the gray noise, man. Andy Stumpf. So glad I got to know him. Stick around. I believe you'll say the same thing two and a half hours hence. Right after this. Speaker 2 (3:31) Pardon the interruption, but I just want to take a quick moment to thank my friends over at American Giant for continuing to prove definitively that high quality clothing can still be made in America for a fair price. They've been at it now for 15 years. So clearly they know what they're doing. And what are they doing exactly? I'll tell you. They're sourcing locally grown cotton and they're building factories in towns across the nation where they can find and hire a local labor force. that cares about making a quality product. It's simple. It's not easy, but it is simple. Consequently, when you buy a piece of clothing from American Giant, you're not just buying a sweatshirt or a t-shirt or another pair of jeans. You're investing in a local supply chain. Also want to thank them for putting the MicroWorks logo on a limited line of tees and sweatshirts and donating the proceeds back to my foundation. We're using that money right now to fund our next round of work ethic scholarships, and I'm grateful. Check out the high-quality staples, the hoodies, the tees, the denims, built to be worn year after year after year at American-Giant.com slash Mike. It's quality you can feel. and a true American success story you can be proud to support. Use code Mike at 20 % off your first order at American-Giant.com slash Mike. Speaker 1 (4:56) American Giant, American made. American Giant, American made. Speaker 2 (5:08) And I do apologize. My producer gave you one of the magical glasses, which is heat activated and reveals my face, apparently. It goes away as it gets cooler. So, yeah, you're drinking from my noggin, dude. Thank you. Not all ideas scale. The etymology of your surname, do tell. Speaker 1 (5:33) I guess German, Germany somewhere. I haven't been able to trace it back an incredible distance. Many years ago, I'm going way back in the time machine for me, an aunt, I believe. I mean, an aunt. An aunt, an aunt, depending on where you hail from. I swear in Salt Lake, there are... genetic, not genetic, but familial records that go back. For whatever reason, that's the repository. Oh, it's the Speaker 2 (6:04) Mormons, man. They kept track of all this. Probably. Speaker 1 (6:07) So four or five generations in the U.S., hazier as we got back from Germany, but that Stumpf is... I mean, my father's name is Vaughn. Vaughn Stumpf? I have an uncle, a great uncle that I've never met, who changed his name because his birth name was Adolf Stumpf. I'm not joking. That Speaker 2 (6:28) was a good Speaker 1 (6:28) call. That was a good call. He went by Audie for the rest of his life. I bet he did. So I'm going to guess, given that name's popularity, really went off the charts on the other end, over the end of the bell curve, that Germany is largely where we draw our lineage from. I'm guessing the gene pool is deep. Yes. In Speaker 2 (6:47) Stuttgart. I love the story you shared with me off camera. We'll revisit that in a second. But I got one for you, too. Full disclosure. Okay. A guy called Stumpf. Yep. Reached out to see. I didn't think you Speaker 1 (7:01) were really going to tell him this. Speaker 2 (7:02) I'm going to tell him. Speaker 1 (7:03) There's not that many of us. Speaker 2 (7:04) Well, this guy was Greg Stumpf. Speaker 1 (7:08) Okay. I Speaker 2 (7:09) just had a trace recollection of meeting him maybe 15 years ago. He was a Green Beret. And he got shot up. And he was running some sort of. organization in DC and I had something to do with it once upon a time. Sorry, it's sketchy. It was a long time ago, but I remember the name. Stumpf. I'm like, oh yeah, that guy Greg Stumpf. I checked him out online. I'm like, yeah, he was great. Let's have him on. So we booked him, but Speaker 1 (7:39) it was you. That's fair. To be honest, that's totally fair. He probably would have been more interesting. Green Berets are fascinating. They know so much about warfare in general, let alone their tactical prowess. Speaker 2 (7:52) They're utterly, I was going to say unexampled. And I guess that's fair because all you guys live in a different sort of vertical. Less than you would think. But the personnel, like, you know Evan, I'm assuming, given your... Speaker 1 (8:06) Yeah. Speaker 2 (8:07) Your shirt. I call him Wee Speaker 1 (8:08) Man. He could stand under this table and not touch his head. I actually call him Micro SF to his face because I think he's the shortest SF person to have ever lived. Special Forces. Correct. Green Beret. Odd that they chose a painter's hat to really round out the uniform, don't you think? How is that? Well, he is... I've known him for quite some time. He's one of my best friends. Didn't know that. Yeah, I have watched him toil for years in his journey through private to public company and just... Speaker 1 (8:45) Building and scaling, scaling back, building, scaling, scaling back. Yeah. Watched the wrong people be brought into the rooms. You need to bring the adults into the room now. Shockingly enough, the adults really cared about themselves and less about the company. My opinion, not his. I'm speaking for myself, not for Evan. It sucks to see somebody who has built something so impressive struggle to be able to enjoy it because he's still so just in the trenches with it. Speaker 2 (9:14) I had him on, I guess a few years ago, I guess. I think it was a... Speaker 1 (9:17) Did Speaker 2 (9:17) you use a Speaker 1 (9:18) booster seat? Speaker 2 (9:18) No, but we were long distance. So it was, it's such a prophylactic, you know, these, I mean, I was so glad when we were locked down to have the ability. Speaker 1 (9:28) Yeah. Speaker 2 (9:29) Right? But it's just so not. It's way different. It's totally different. But he was great. And I was struck by this idea that he was building a coffee company with a Green Beret. attitude, you know, and it was informing the way they marketed it. And I was trying to get to, you know, how else do you think about business that sort of rhymes with the business of, you know, being lethal. And he was still kind of sorting it out. And as I watch the whole thing continue to evolve, it's not easy what he's trying to do. Speaker 1 (10:05) No. The lethality is a very small portion of any of those worlds. So special forces for people who don't know, because people confuse us all the time, is the painter's beret. It is specifically the green beret. And they'll probably recognize the movie with, I want to say Eastwood, but that wasn't it. John Wayne. Yeah, which inspired generations of people to join the green berets. We had Charlie Sheen and the documentary known as Navy Seals, which... Also got many generations of people. I'm not sure for the Speaker 2 (10:33) right reasons. It Speaker 1 (10:34) inspired something. The only scene in that movie that's accurate is when he's so drunk, he's laying face down in the ocean with a stripper's high heel shoe in his hand. That's about the only accuracy there. But, uh, Special operations is all of that. The job I used to do, Evan's job. The lethality is the tail end of just coming from a career that solves problems. It's just nonlinear problem solving is all it is. Then you can apply that to a mission set where you get to take a ballistic tool with you and use it or not, depending on the problem that you are presented with. But it actually is. I don't want to say it's simple, but it's not easy. But that is what that world is. It's just problem solving. Speaker 2 (11:12) What years were you over there? Speaker 1 (11:14) So I joined in 1996, so I had a good amount of time pre-9-11, which I'm thankful for because I got to watch the evolution of that community. Speaker 2 (11:21) And Speaker 1 (11:21) then the last day of June 2013, they medically retired me. Speaker 2 (11:26) You were shot close range AK. It was like four or five medals. Was it Bronze Stars? Yeah. What do you do for Bronze Star exactly? How does that happen? Speaker 1 (11:40) Hell if I know. Speaker 1 (11:43) The award system is so weird. If you look at a Bronze Star from World War II, and I'm not talking, people are going to get very upset at me, but they can do this exercise. Do a Bronze Star review from World War II, and then do a Bronze Star in general review from the Global War on Terror. I feel like I would give mine back for a cocktail napkin, just a nice thank you, because what they were getting, you know, it's like... Single-handedly charged several machine gun nests without any cover. Nude. Yeah. You know, wrestled somebody to death. Picked up the machine gun, ran it several kilometers, and somehow sunk a destroyer. Bronze star with Speaker 2 (12:24) me. Like Audie Speaker 1 (12:25) Murphy stuff. It's insane. I'm appreciative of the awards. You don't have a heavy hand in it. Speaker 1 (12:32) The direct answer is there is no specific guidance in the military. If you do this, you get this. If you do that, you get that. It's very subjective. Is it weird in Speaker 2 (12:42) the way that I talked to, you know, Clint Speaker 1 (12:45) Romashay? Not well, but I know who he is. Speaker 2 (12:47) Yeah, he wrote a book called Red Platoon. Speaker 2 (12:52) Keating. Fort Keating. Yeah. Right? I think he... Oh, God. They were outnumbered 4-1. He got out, ran back in, got his dead buddies out, and just was instantly tapped for that. Rightly so. And I've talked to him, and I've talked to Gary Sinise, and met a bunch of other guys. And there's just this... There's an awkwardness about receiving such a thing. Speaker 1 (13:21) I just left the Medal of Honor Museum in Texas. Really? We were just there for Black Rifle, actually. Uh Speaker 2 (13:26) -huh. Speaker 1 (13:26) Yeah, and I can explain the... Yeah. Speaker 1 (13:30) Oh, Speaker 2 (13:30) boy. So we're looking at a World War II Bronze Star. So the Speaker 1 (13:32) Bronze Stars, yeah, I mean, again, for people who don't know this, the Bronze Star is the highest award that you can get for both combat and non-combat operations. So the V device is what separates whether or not your actions occurred under enemy fire or in a combat environment. But you can, the citations will start one of two ways. It will say for heroic achievement. which would be a bronze star with a V, or for meritorious achievement, which is a bronze star without a V. Beyond that, above a bronze star, everything is assumed or by doctrine has to occur in combat. There's no silver star with a V, which is a really good way to, when you see people wearing those, engage in very interesting conversations about the story behind it. Yeah. Or purple hearts with a V. No, there's none of those things. It's just what they, the difference in what those... people did was extraordinary. And then again, after leaving the Medal of Honor Museum, we were there three days ago, Black Rifle was celebrating the 100th birthday of eight veterans. So there's a banquet hall there that you're able to rent out and it gave us access to just walk around the new facility in Arlington. I left that never wanting to speak of my own military service again. Well, you've made the point better than I could. I just, I'm sorry, submarine captain that sunk a train. Still trying to figure out how that happened. Wow. Yes. He had a flag of all the ships and on the bottom center is a locomotive. I don't know if it was on a boat. I want to know, did he, was there a bridge going around and he torpedoed that and it fell in? It's the most fantastic thing I've ever seen. Speaker 2 (15:10) He sunk a train. That's what it says on his citation. That's fantastic. Speaker 1 (15:15) It is. Speaker 1 (15:17) There's the you know at the dinner table we had a living Medal of Honor recipient from I believe it was in either Iraq or Afghanistan the guy bum rushed a suicide bomber Grab him drug him away. The vest came off detonated his feet I think he was one of the few people to live cartwheel him 50 50 yards away You know, multiple. I'm like. Speaker 2 (15:36) Can't beat that. Yeah, you got me. Speaker 1 (15:38) It makes you not want to say anything about any of your service. Let's just focus on those people. Speaker 2 (15:46) Do you Speaker 1 (15:47) ever think Speaker 2 (15:47) about the way recognition kind of migrates in and out of the military or maybe, I don't know, tactical to practical awards versus trophies? the proliferation of recognition, we all have to get something, the absurdity of the ribbons, like whatever it is. I've never really thought about it, but I would imagine it kind of started in the military. And how did it get so deep into civilian life? I Speaker 1 (16:18) don't know. There's a lot of confusion about it. The problem is, you know, we had the Bronze Stars up. That is a particular medal in the Global War on Terrorism. realm that people don't understand the difference between a V and not having a V. And it happens so often where somebody will have a Bronze Star without a V, which they should be incredibly proud of. And what they did is enough. And they will start talking about how it came from their combat service and all of these things. And I don't dig too deep into the pool because you'll go crazy, but it's not a good thing that people don't understand that because it can be manipulated. And quite frankly, I can only speak from my experience and only the community that I came from. The award system is not as pristine and clean as people would like to think. At some point, and this is my opinion, I'm not speaking for the Navy, but early on, I would say around 2003 or 2004, the award system at least became loosely tied to the advancement system. So let's say you are the officer in charge of an element that is overseas. And the person who held that role before you in the unit that you are replacing got X award and they go to a promotional board and they are highly promotional because of that. You then go hold that role and maybe you didn't do anything that would necessarily be commensurate with that level of award, but you get it because you're in a leadership role and then it starts becoming an expectation and then awards start being in some sense tied to the rank and position that you're holding as opposed to the actions that you are supposed to take to justify them. And that happens on the enlisted side as well, because you have to hit leadership wickets to be at least eligible for advancement. And as soon as that happens, the validity of the system, at least in my opinion, is broken to agree. Speaker 2 (18:15) The idea that the best path for the most people is a four-year degree didn't evolve by accident. No, that was a deliberate attempt to convince an entire generation that they were doomed to a second-class life if they didn't go to college. And you know what? It worked. A lot of people borrowed a lot of money to pursue an education that simply wasn't right for them. Well, today, parents and kids are finally beginning to realize that a four-year degree is not the only path. to success. And that's why I'm happy to recommend exploring K-12. K-12 powered online schools offer career and college prep programs that are designed to help students find their full potential, no matter which path they choose. If your kid's looking to get a jumpstart on a real world career before they graduate high school, K-12 lets them explore fields like IT and healthcare, business, and of course, the skilled trades. where the opportunities are voluminous. They get a head start on real, relevant skills and hands-on experience while they earn their high school diploma. That's a game changer. And look, if college is their goal, K-12 can help there too. They provide experienced counselors to help your student choose the right school, navigate the application process, even find financial aid and scholarships to cut down on the future debt. It's about helping. Your kid turned their potential into an actual plan. Go to k12.com slash row to learn more. That's the letter K, the number 12, dot com slash row. The Speaker 1 (19:54) letter K, the number Speaker 2 (19:57) 12, dot com slash row. Speaker 2 (20:05) Well, look, I'm asking you this because I think a lot about honorary degrees. Speaker 1 (20:13) I Speaker 2 (20:13) think about degrees a lot. You know, a college degree, it's a thing that, you know, my foundation deals with a bunch. It's very elitist. Speaker 1 (20:25) As somebody who has neither an honorary or a real degree. Well, I remember Speaker 2 (20:29) I graduated from a community college a long time ago. and then a university after that. And I owed them $330 in parking tickets. And before the commencement, they called to say, pay up or there's no degree. You're just going to be on stage. You'll get an empty thing. And I thought, well, you can't. There's no way you can't not give me the degree. Speaker 2 (20:58) I don't think I've ever told you this, Chuck, but I went down the rabbit hole of resentment and weirdness. And I wound up going to see a Styx concert with my friend instead of going to graduation up in Madison Square Garden. Jeff Wilson. Speaker 1 (21:11) Right. Speaker 2 (21:12) And they mailed a degree to my dad's house. And I remember he called me and said, oh, I got your receipt in the mail today. Like, my receipt? Because, you know, receipt, degree, whatever. I'm like, oh, man. And so now just and people have invited me to speak at graduations a bunch. And I've been offered honorary degrees. And I've never really been able to do that just because that for me, that's where it started to feel like, what are we doing? Why? Like Maya Angelou, God bless her. She had a lot to say and she said it beautifully. But she had many like. 40 or 50 honorary degrees. What Speaker 1 (21:56) does it mean at that point? Speaker 2 (21:57) Well, in her case, it meant that, you Speaker 1 (21:59) know, she Speaker 2 (22:00) was referred to as a doctor and a credentialed. It's just Speaker 1 (22:05) so odd to me. I agree. I don't understand it. Yeah. I don't understand a non-honorary degree, let alone an honor. I don't understand the point of it. Why bestow that on somebody or gift that? What are they supposed to do with it? Speaker 2 (22:18) I don't know. I guess you hang it. But my point is, I think it all, it's like that movie with Keaton, Multiplicity. Like if you look at the guy you described before, the guy who sunk a train, okay, under insanely hazardous conditions. Let Speaker 1 (22:37) alone many other things that he sank. Who Speaker 2 (22:39) assumed all the imaginable risks. Yeah. You know, and put his life and his men's lives on the line. did whatever they did, sank all those things, and then just to train to let everybody, okay, that guy gets something. He Speaker 1 (22:51) got the Medal of Honor. Okay, Speaker 2 (22:53) there you go. Yeah. Now, everything is lesser than. Everything is a version of, okay, that was pretty brave. Speaker 1 (23:02) Yeah. Speaker 2 (23:02) Not quite as brave as that guy. And then we're in this crazy chronology, this crazy hierarchy. And I don't know, man, it just seems like a... an odd way to order our lives. I Speaker 1 (23:16) agree. And then, like I said, the system I described, what if there wasn't any bravery, but the advancement board is six months away? What do you do? Right. It breaks the system. And everybody's aware of it. I mean, I know I am not the only person that feels this way. Maybe I'm the only person who wants to say it publicly, but it's the reality of what it is. And it sucks because I think, I would hope that those things mean something because I've watched people do things that they got those type of awards for, and I don't have the words to describe it. Speaker 2 (23:52) And yet you talk a lot about, I mean, you've got words. Your podcast is, you Speaker 1 (23:58) know what? I try to get other people to talk more though. Speaker 2 (24:01) I've noticed, I've noticed, but you're the guest here. So no, I'm not saying here, Speaker 1 (24:06) I'm saying on my own show. Okay. I'm fascinated by other people. I think you're probably the same way. I think it's easy to host a podcast and talk for hours, especially if you're legitimately interested in other people's life and experience. I'm the most resoundingly born person that I know. And you could ask my children. I think they would agree with you. Well, Speaker 2 (24:27) here's how boring you are. And I don't know you, but we just met. You literally fell over yourself confessing that you saw me in a hotel restaurant a month ago eating. And you knew you were going to come here to see me. But you and your wife, you just sat there and observed. Speaker 1 (24:45) She wasn't observing. She was focusing on eating. I was concerned about your safety. And I was making sure you were okay. Speaker 2 (24:54) But you didn't walk over to say hello. Speaker 1 (24:58) Never. You were enjoying a private moment. Why would I do that? Speaker 2 (25:01) Well, I can only defer to the species to which I believe you belong. Yeah. And suggest that what you've just espoused would put you in a very skinny minority. Speaker 1 (25:17) Some buses are shorter than others. You know, some have flavor windows, some do not. Speaker 2 (25:25) Have you ever walked up to somebody you've recognized or were curious about out there in the wild and just said hello? Do people come up to you these days? Speaker 1 (25:34) I have never approached a celebrity, even when I have worked in environments when they're present. If the meeting is natural, I will say hello, but I leave them to do their thing. And that's just based in, I think, people. in that world. It's fascinating to me. I know some relatively famous people and I can see the struggle of them living a normal life, whatever that means. But as an example, I was at an archery event with Joe Rogan. He was trying to get to the bathroom. Oh, Joe can't take a piss. It took 30 minutes for him to go maybe 30 yards. And I remembered that. And he's the kindest man. He stopped and said hello to everybody, shook their hand, took pictures, all of those things, because he's very appreciative of it. But I know he wanted to take a piss. And I remembered that. That left a mark on me for sure. So I just let people do their thing. I knew we were going to sit down in a month. And I could tell you a weird story. It's probably one of the more awkward stories that you've ever had to open with. So, you know. Speaker 2 (26:30) No, man, but you could have made it so much weirder. As we discussed, you could have simply walked up, taken a piece of sushi, put it in your mouth. Or just touched it as I was talking. Yeah, Speaker 1 (26:39) just touch it. Walk up, Speaker 2 (26:40) touch food and say, you don't know me yet, but you will. Just Speaker 1 (26:43) a sip out of your wine glass and just walk off into the smoke. Speaker 2 (26:47) That would have been amazing. Yeah. Speaker 1 (26:51) It's Speaker 2 (26:52) not Speaker 1 (26:52) me, though. But you Speaker 2 (26:54) thought of it. Oh, Speaker 1 (26:55) trust me. I thought of a lot of things. It doesn't mean I'm going to do it. My mind is not a place you probably want to go visit. Speaker 2 (27:02) I honestly don't know what I would have done. You walk up, you just put your hand on my meal and say, big fan. And then just walk away. I just don't know what I would have done. Speaker 1 (27:15) What would anybody do other than sit there and probably paralyze shock? Speaker 2 (27:19) I'd like to think I would have applauded, just to say good for doing something that's, you know, it's rare to see something you've never seen before, to experience something that's just brand new. Speaker 1 (27:29) I'd rather let you have a nice meal. You guys seem like you're having a good time. Yeah, I was there with what's-her-name Mary. Speaker 2 (27:35) I've heard of her. Yeah. Speaker 1 (27:38) People do come up to me a little bit more now, and I always just thank them for doing so. And, you know, usually they want a picture, or these days they'll ask me to sign the book. And, of course, I mean, what am I going to do other than say yes? Speaker 2 (27:50) The book is... Drown Speaker 1 (27:52) -proof. Drown-proof. Mm-hmm. Has nothing to do with the water or swimming, Speaker 2 (27:55) but, Speaker 1 (27:55) you know, Speaker 2 (27:56) catchy. Is it actually a word, Andy? Or is it two words? Speaker 1 (28:00) It's Speaker 2 (28:01) a Speaker 1 (28:01) word. in common usage. Drownproof. In the world, it is a physical evolution at Bud's, and I think it was actually called Drownproofing. I think it's a word. On the title, it's one word. Speaker 2 (28:14) Because you guys go through all sorts of, you know, delightful little crucibles. Speaker 1 (28:20) That one actually isn't that bad. Assuming, and I'm going to put a huge asterisk on this, that you are comfortable, yeah, there it is, that you're comfortable in the water. Speaker 1 (28:32) Now, so this title picture nerds people out. And I have to tell the story of the picture, too. So the person who took that used to be a SEAL. He became a very high-end photographer. And he had access to the training facility because of that, because he was a known entity. So they let him come in. He has an entire book of images that would just blow you away. Speaker 2 (28:51) Well, let me just say that as images go, that's terrifying. Speaker 1 (28:54) That was one of my favorite evolutions because your head is only above the water for about a second. So that's all you can hear them yelling at you as you go back down to the bottom, which is why if you're comfortable in the water, but for people who are audio only, this is a portion of the evolution called drown proofing. In the picture, their feet are tied together above the ankle. Their hands are tied behind their back with a similar piece of rope. We don't do that to them on the first day. Coming in hot. It's a crawl, walk, run training pipeline. People think it's ultra high speed. It's not. They probably spend a week just holding their hands behind their back. And then I think we start with the Velcro straps that you can undo. Eventually, so you have to bob for an hour, which it is if you can relax and control your breathing. Exceptionally easy. You exhale to become negatively buoyant. You bounce off the bottom, come to the top, grab some air. Somebody yells at you for a little bit and you just go back down. Speaker 2 (29:46) So it's opposite. Bill, you exhale. Speaker 1 (29:49) Exhale to go down. You get your air on the way up. Then you have to swim the length of the pool with your arms and legs tied behind your back. It's not that hard either, but it's different. You need to keep more air in your lungs to maintain that positive buoyancy. You're basically dolphin kicking. Then you come back, and I still don't understand why we do this. They start bouncing again. They throw a mask into the pool. You have to wiggle your happy ass over there, pick the mask up with your teeth, and then bob with that in your mouth for... an indiscriminate amount of time. Then you have to do a front somersault and then it's over. Again. Why do Speaker 2 (30:22) you have to do a front somersault? Speaker 1 (30:23) Everything beyond the swimming back and forth, I don't understand. I think comfort in the water. Also, what is not shown in this picture, there are instructors in the water and it's a one-to-one ratio. Speaker 2 (30:33) Oh, a somersault underwater. Speaker 1 (30:35) Underwater, yes. Oh, okay. Like, suck it out of the pool. Now Speaker 2 (30:38) get out and Speaker 1 (30:39) dive. I mean... Yeah, the job requires a variety of physical skills. Sometimes the somersault is one of them. There is a robust safety net for the students. It's one-to-one. One student is watching a student as they're in the pool. So one's on the pool deck and there are instructors all around. There's dive medical officers on the pool deck. It's really not that bad if you are comfortable in the water, which is actually what this is testing. Speaker 2 (31:01) How many people sign up, try out, who aren't comfortable in the water? And how many of those? Speaker 2 (31:10) somehow power through on a percentage basis. Man, I Speaker 1 (31:15) don't think there's any studies on that one, but I think we can hypothesize it's a single-digit percentage. It's got to Speaker 2 (31:19) be. Speaker 1 (31:20) I was a BUDS instructor for 18 months, and I don't remember why I was out there. The training facility abuts the Pacific Ocean with large sand berms. There was a student standing out there on the sand berm just marveling at the Pacific Ocean. So I walked up and said, what are you doing? He said, I've never seen the ocean before. He did not last long. Jesus, what was I thinking? That is a question I've been asking myself and my children since they were born and I was young. Speaker 2 (31:46) This is some pretty high cotton from Joe, who wrote, if the world went completely sideways from a zombie virus outbreak and we had to put together a militia to save the human race, Andy Stumpf would be my top draft pick. Speaker 1 (32:00) I will say this. He wrote nearly five paragraphs. It was an incredibly personal endorsement, and they had to pull what they thought. I don't know what they thought people were going to get from that, other than maybe somebody good to have on a team if there's a draft pick. Did they leave the rest of it somewhere in the book? No. No, it would have been the entire front cover, which I don't know if that sells. Speaker 2 (32:29) If I'm being honest, and I always try to be, especially in these commercials, there's a lot about AI that makes me uncomfortable. I don't like the way it's impacting the publishing industry or the film industry or the music industry or, frankly, anything artistic. What I do like are companies that are using AI to make hard work more productive. That's exactly what Diggs is doing and the entire construction industry. is now paying attention. Diggs has built a software tool driven by AI that keeps builders from drowning in reams of disconnected information from toxic text threads to rogue PDFs. It simplifies everything by taking blueprints, takeoffs, homeowner approvals, all that stuff, and putting them in one. place. So when you need to know the exact tile option that a homeowner approved weeks ago, you don't have to call three people or scream at your dashboard for a half hour. You just ask Diggs and the AI finds the answer in two seconds. This technology is saving builders 40 to 50 hours per project. which is why Diggs is expanding like crazy. Full disclosure, I haven't used the product personally because I don't build houses for a living, but if I was having a home built, I would absolutely insist the builders use Diggs. I've also met the owners of the company, Ryan and Ty. They're awesome. I've kicked the tires, and I've personally invested in Diggs because I think they're going to be huge. Go to diggs.com slash Mike. Save 40 % off your first three months at D-I-G-S. Speaker 2 (34:08) Can you dig it? Do you still have the entire quote? I do. Is it framed? Speaker 1 (34:17) No, but I'm going to with some of the worst reviews of the book. I'll just do them side by side. That's great. I love it. People's internet behaviors and actions are fascinating to me. Oh, man, me too. I love to see the expression of just humanity coming apart. Yeah. I got a raving one-star Goodreads review that is several paragraphs, and I currently have my producer framing it to go in the studio because it just warms my heart. Speaker 2 (34:44) Well, look, I mean, it's a way to take your power back. I had a lot of interesting mail years ago. I paid my dues at CBS for a while and then on the QVC cable shopping channel. Speaker 1 (34:57) Strong. Yeah. Speaker 2 (34:58) Three years there. How was that? Well, I'll tell you. It was instructive looking back. I actually didn't talk about it for years. And then when I started to talk about it, It was kind of funny and kitschy. And then the more I thought about it, the more I realized, well, it certainly wasn't Bud's, but it was a training ground for sure. I bet. And it was sleep deprivation. And it was very, live TV is very uncomfortable. And we have no training at all. And they're just bringing you things. And your job is to kill eight minutes at a time. It's not exactly mortal stakes, but it's Speaker 1 (35:36) a Speaker 2 (35:36) weird set of muscles to develop. Speaker 1 (35:38) Yeah. Speaker 2 (35:39) And you either do it or you don't. And, you Speaker 1 (35:43) know, Speaker 2 (35:43) like so many useful things in this ridiculous industry, I learned there. This has, what, eight lessons, eight life lessons to keep your head above water. That's pretty clever, too. I didn't come up with that. Speaker 1 (36:00) Did Speaker 2 (36:00) you come up with the lessons? Speaker 1 (36:02) I think so. Did you do anything, Andy? It could be argued. I mean, how far back in time do you want to go? I like to set the bar low and then trip over it. Well, I don't want to dwell Speaker 2 (36:12) on all the combat stuff because I think you're probably sick to death of talking about it. Speaker 1 (36:16) You'd be underwhelmed by it anyway. It's not what people think. Speaker 2 (36:20) Okay, what is it? Speaker 1 (36:21) You're making the best decision you can in the moment with limited information, and Speaker 2 (36:24) then you get the rest of your life Speaker 1 (36:25) to think about it. It's about what it is. Speaker 2 (36:29) This is a pure aisle. I can do so much better than this, but to get shot at close range with an AK, Speaker 1 (36:35) what Speaker 2 (36:37) flavor is the pain? Speaker 1 (36:41) The best way I can describe it, you're old enough to remember this. Remember the Bash brothers, Kinseko and McGuire? Oh, yeah. We're talking peak juice, not early, when they were somehow evading the drug testing program, if there was one in baseball. If you would have given either of them a baseball bat with about a nine-inch nail sticking out of it and let them wind up, that's what I think. I've never tested this, but in my mind, this is the way that I could describe it. That's about what it felt like. Where'd it get you? Hip? Yeah, high up on my left hip. Spun me towards the person that was shooting at me. About a year later, I found the belt that I was wearing that night because they cut most of my clothes off me. The second round that that guy shot at me, I'm thankful that it spun me towards him and then I pushed off with my foot. I ended up stuck under a vehicle just watching a guy shoot at me. Very super heroic. Just pinned because of my gear. And I'm just like, ah! Speaker 2 (37:34) On the positive side, here's another star. Yeah. Speaker 1 (37:38) The second round, the guy shot at me, traveled down my belt about six inches, burning it along the way. And then the copper jacket of the round is still attached to my belt. So had it not spun me, again, this is a hypothesis, that one was higher. I couldn't have put a tourniquet on the one that did hit me, but it missed my femur. It missed all the arteries and veins. The second round, had it interacted with my pelvis, very unlikely that we'd be sitting here today. Those are generally fatal and excruciatingly painful. Can't even Speaker 2 (38:07) imagine. Speaker 1 (38:08) Yeah. Speaker 2 (38:09) So does the pain, how does it linger? Speaker 1 (38:13) I Speaker 2 (38:14) was Speaker 1 (38:15) just about to say it wasn't that bad. But it wasn't that bad. By the time I got to the hospital, so eight Americans got hurt on that objective that night. I was one of the least injured. We were flying in TF-160 little birds to load the people up to get them out of there. And some of that was blue on blue. that was not all enemy that was it was a breaching charge that was detonated when american forces were close it was it was gnarly um by the time i got to the hospital i took a bradley fighting vehicle in the back of one with a guy who'd been shot in the hand my ankle actually hurt worse than anything because the round interacted with my sciatic nerve. And so it short-circuited it from the point of impact all the way down to my ankle. So my chief complaint when I got to the hospital was actually my ankle. I felt like that Bradley, somehow I'd been taken outside, roll over my foot and then put me back inside of it. So the doctors were very gingerly, you know, cutting off my shoe, cutting the pants off, exposing everything, putting me into the x-ray and the CAT scan and then looking at me. Nothing. There was nothing. not that they could see it and then they were asking about the pain um and like yeah it's right i couldn't move my left leg for about a year i was a hemiplegic for about a year so