‘Slow Horses’ Season 6 Is an Energetic Return to Form. Plus, Chuck Klosterman!

The Watch

Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald kick off The Watch with a lively discussion of the Season 6 premiere of 'Slow Horses,' praising its return to form after a perceived

Key takeaways

• Season 6 of 'Slow Horses' marks a revitalized return to form with tonal depth and narrative complexity.

Main topics

• Slow Horses Season 6 premiere
• Showrunner transition and creative continuity

Notable quotes

'This show fucking rips again.' – Andy Greenwald on Season 6

Conclusion

The episode celebrates 'Slow Horses' as a consistently strong series that

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:05) I need supports to have to clear the room. Speaker 3 (0:08) Stand up and walk now. Speaker 2 (0:11) Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at TheRinger.com and joining me in the studio after stiffing me for the bill at an Italian restaurant, it's Andy Greenwald! We Speaker 1 (0:24) did have a nice Italian meal in London recently. We did. Yeah, we split it though. We did. We had to. It Speaker 2 (0:30) is Thursday and today we are talking about the first episode of the sixth season of Slow Horses. Yeah. And then later in the episode, I talked to Chuck Klosterman about his new book, his upcoming new book, Rock. It was a great conversation with Chuck. I've known Chuck for two decades now, more than two decades. And it's awesome that he is still writing books that provoke and intrigue. I love this premise. And the premise of his book is really fascinating. It's what if the Velvet Underground had essentially... flipped positions with the Beatles in 1967 and become the biggest band in the world and how would the world have changed going forward? Speaker 1 (1:09) We have talked about this in different contexts on this podcast, but I think of everyone that I've ever met in this long and winding road of life. Yeah. There are only two people who are exactly consistent and exactly the same on the page, on the pod, and in person, and they are Chuck Klosterman and Bill Simmons. Speaker 2 (1:26) Oh, yeah. Do you think I have like a weird dark side that I don't show on this? the page or the pod? No, it's weird. You're kind of more musical Speaker 1 (1:32) theater off the pod. You're very merry. I Speaker 2 (1:35) do. I'm so, so excited to be alive. Jazz hands Speaker 1 (1:38) all the time. I am Speaker 2 (1:39) excited to be alive. You want to know why? Because I still get consistent pleasure like slow horses in my life. So we're going to talk about this first episode. Spoilers for the first episode. Speaker 1 (1:47) But do you want to say also just no spoilers for life? Because we are recording this early. So like, what if something crazy happens in TV on Wednesday or Thursday? Are you going to drop in some news? Maybe. Speaker 2 (1:56) Yeah. We don't have to be pretty significant. Speaker 1 (1:58) Okay, I'm really excited to see what fits the bill. Speaker 2 (2:00) Yeah, there's usually like, it's like the same thing with like, if an all-star gets traded, it's an emergency post, but not if it's like the 23rd best player in the league. Should Speaker 1 (2:11) we just run through some like reusable headlines? You know, like Paramount Warner Brothers merger hit another speed bump on the road to approval. I Speaker 2 (2:22) don't think that would. That would not bring me into the office. Speaker 1 (2:24) Should we do some obituaries? No, we shouldn't. Okay, all right. I'm just trying to be helpful. I'm not going to be here. Speaker 2 (2:30) All right, let's do sort of broad strokes. Yeah, yeah, Speaker 1 (2:34) yeah. Speaker 2 (2:34) There's some important things to note about Series 6, Season 6 of Slow Horses. I would say probably one of the most consistently rewarding television shows of this decade. Certainly the most consistent. And Speaker 1 (2:46) one of the great Speaker 2 (2:46) productions of this decade, I would say. The idea of... adapting a long-running spy series by Mick Herron and using a book per season, although this particular season uses multiple books, has just been an absolute boon. I think it's a show that I anecdotally feel grows over time, that people go back and rediscover or discover as more and more people inevitably wind up using Apple TV, either as their set-top box or as a... a streaming service of choice. And I think Tonally is probably for too long been thought of as just one thing. And one of the cool things about this season is I think it's going to explore some darker corners of the slow horses world. Speaker 1 (3:36) Right. Speaker 2 (3:37) And I think you could see that in the first season, first episode. Speaker 1 (3:39) I think it's also worth noting, and I apologize if you did, I was, I just been, I've just fallen down a Google rabbit hole about Spanish golfers shouting out our Monday podcast. It's, A much richer text than you might have believed. Speaker 2 (3:52) Tuesday podcast. Speaker 1 (3:53) Sorry, Tuesday podcast. This guy is it. Yeah. Quick question. What day is it today? It Speaker 2 (3:58) is Speaker 1 (3:58) still Speaker 2 (3:58) Tuesday. We're just recording it for Thursday. Crushing this. Speaker 1 (4:03) Unstuck in time, not Penny's boat. Yeah, that there's a new showrunner. Speaker 2 (4:06) Yeah, that was my next big, big thing. Was that Will Smith Speaker 1 (4:10) who had guided the first five seasons. And not that Will Smith and also not the other one. Speaker 2 (4:15) The Dodgers catcher. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1 (4:18) Not the catcher for the Los Angeles Dodgers. Yes, Speaker 2 (4:21) he did not make Slow Horses. Will Smith has been on our podcast, the writer and showrunner for Slow Horses. And he did Yeoman's work running five seasons, pretty much back to back to back to back to back. And has left the show for practical purposes and also because he's working on other things. And Gabby Chiappi has come on and done season six. Yes. And I believe a different writer is show running season seven. Ben Speaker 1 (4:47) Van Stone. And it sounds like they Speaker 2 (4:49) are now kind of settling into a, there's one crew that works Speaker 1 (4:52) on the odds and one crew that works on the evens. Which is what happens also with the directing because Adam Randall, who's directing this season, directed season four. Saul Metzstein, who won an Emmy this week for directing season five, also directed season three. Yes. It is funny. I mean, I can speak from experience, but it is just remarkable how there actually are ways to, quote unquote, make this work. Consistent television, yearly television. But you have to plan for literally things like this. Like one person can't do two, let alone three seasons all at once. And it is funny how in every example, other than The Pit, which I think is more explicitly on like a 90s model, like it's taken a lot of these shows. multiple seasons to figure it out. Yeah. And this speaks very well of their operation and what they have going forward because this is no slight at Will Smith, who, as you said, has done something amazing in adapting the show and getting it up to this level for five straight seasons. But I have to tell you in front of you and Kaya and Kai and if anyone's listening, you know, now that they don't know what day it is anymore, I thought the last season was kind of the weakest. Okay. And I am not sure if that is like... qualitatively the case, but I was less taken with it. I found its attempt to get its arms around some real world stuff in modern London and politics and right-wing journalism just felt a little more ham-handed with the overall comic tone of everything. I also have to say my previous weakest season was the one before which lurched in the opposite direction and introduced Harkness played by Hugo Weaving as like the Darth Vader character that's haunting this whole thing. So... I was kind of in a place with the show where I was like, it's always a B to B plus, but I am not sure if I'm deeply in love with either the broader comic version of it, ripped from the headlines and having a laugh, or the like, actually it's all one story and there's darkness. And then, Chris? I fired up season six. Yeah. Speaker 2 (6:48) And Speaker 1 (6:49) this show fucking rips again. Do you? I loved it. Did you watch more than season, than first episode? I watched the first two. We won't spoil it. Yeah. But I was so excited by the first one. I had to keep going a little bit to see where we were headed. Speaker 2 (7:01) You've put your finger on something really interesting. I think I was higher on the other two seasons that you just mentioned. And Speaker 1 (7:05) they were good. I just meant in terms of my relationship to the show. Speaker 2 (7:08) But Speaker 1 (7:08) they were kind Speaker 2 (7:10) of doing something that I guess, you know, I've read some of the McCarran books. I have not read all of them. Speaker 2 (7:17) I think that there is a common kind of twist in them where it starts out with you think it's this adversary, but it turns out this adversary is the one pulling the strings. And, you know, you basically you'll you'll think, oh, the Libyans are attacking London. Why? And then it's like, oh, it's white. White nationalists are actually doing it. Speaker 1 (7:34) Gotcha. Speaker 2 (7:35) I feel like that move had been pulled a couple of times in various ways. What I. Also noticed was that it was maybe breaking under the, we're going to just put these people in their roles. Yes. And they never deviate from established behavior. In Speaker 1 (7:52) every scene, Roddy will say this, River will do this, and they're stuck. Yeah. Much like the characters are stuck in Slough House. And Speaker 2 (8:00) I thought that there were some like reasons for real hope because, you know, River's constant moaning about why is he at Slough House? He wants to do real work. get out of this place. And, you know, there, there had been some steps towards like three-dimensionality that I think was really helpful. Speaker 1 (8:18) It Speaker 2 (8:18) explodes in this season. I think that this season is, is among the best of, of the lot, if not since the beginning. I know I've, I think I said last season, like Slow Horses is fucking back. And I will admit that I have no self-control when it comes to Slow Horses screeners that I watch them. I tend to watch them in a, basically a binge. My secret shame is that I think Slow Horses would be like an elite binge show. It's six episodes. I think people could watch them in three or four nights and maybe even understand the totality of the stories even better. Speaker 1 (8:53) Which I struggle with. Speaker 2 (8:54) And this is a one crazy night season. And I think it would almost be... Better ingested that way. I know that there are a lot Speaker 3 (9:03) of Speaker 2 (9:03) people who also wait several weeks for Slow Horses to be done airing so that they can watch in this fashion. Just a note, I thought that this first episode was wonderful. Yeah. First of all, even though Randall has previous experience directing this show, I thought that there was a noticeable difference from the visual palette of the show. There was more handheld. This felt less like... I was on a set or like a pre-established group of sets in London. And more like a, I'm hunting around this city with these people as they try to figure out what's going on. Speaker 1 (9:41) I mean, the show is, has been elite at saying, well, now we're going to shoot Hackney this way, or we're going to use the Barbican that way. Or even in this season, like Towpath Cafe and the small boats, like it's Speaker 2 (9:52) a Speaker 1 (9:52) beautiful, characterful. slice of London that isn't always on our American screens. And it always takes good advantage of that. But I'm completely on board with what you're saying because there is a different visual language already, which is a cool idea for a show that, you know, has different personalities season to season and is telling a single story each season. But some of the, just the shot composition and the framing, like in the, not the trailer park, but the, what would you call it? The storage container park that begins the action is. Like I paused it. Slow Horses, despite it winning an Emmy for directing, has never been a show where I'm like, boy, the visual storytelling is what brings me back. Yes. And this season was was heartier. Speaker 2 (10:33) I also think there's this interesting line where some people come to shows and they want that show to be a repeatable pleasure. And I think that this has been that for several years. If they had continued to just do the exact same thing, and obviously they're adapting books, this season, I believe, is Slough House and Joe Country, I want to say. That's Speaker 1 (10:56) right. Speaker 2 (10:57) Yeah, Joe Country and Slough House, the two McCarran novels that this season is drawn from. And it's already been renewed for season eight. And like I said, I think they'll go for 10, but who knows? It's really as long as Oldman wants to do it. the reason why the new director, the new direction for the show or the new visual language of the show worked is that you can't just do what these people do forever and not have your worldview changed. And so the show needs to reflect that. And I felt like you could just look around London and it just felt like decay. Speaker 1 (11:27) Yeah. Speaker 2 (11:28) It's pissing rain constantly. Yeah. The sky is completely washed out white. Like there's no skyline. There's no... Sorry, Speaker 1 (11:36) this all felt quite familiar, but go on. Scenery. Speaker 2 (11:38) And... I think that we're more in, like you mentioned, the opening scene takes place in this port district of shipping containers stacked on top of one another where an ex-Sly House agent has retired to teach karate to children and try and... pitch people on his idea of like vertical integrated like shipping containers as apartments, the new flats of the future. Speaker 1 (12:09) Now, I'm curious your opinion on this. It's either the beauty of the show or the challenge of the show. So I remembered, I've not rewatched the series. I remembered that there was a Scottish slow horse in the first season who got fired. I assumed when the season began on him that that was the same guy, but I can't say I carried a lot of institutional memory of Struan Loy or had feelings about him, which is maybe the point. Later in this episode or in the episodes that we've seen, another character that has made a similarly brief appearance on the show is brought back, but another character who I believe we've never seen is also targeted because we could say this conceit for the season, I'm sure other shoes are going to drop, is that there is a... targeted a team of assassins, one of whom excitedly, I would say, is played by Kyle Stoller, who we adore from Andor, are tracking down ex... Soler. Kyle Soler, sorry. Ex-slow horses and killing them. Yeah. So... I have to say, I've never watched Slow Horses with that kind of encyclopedic, like Sopranos-esque, like, oh, I remember that's the capo of Jersey from season one. I can't believe he's stepping up into this bigger role. I Speaker 3 (13:22) don't Speaker 1 (13:22) think it asks you to. But I don't think Speaker 3 (13:23) it needed to. But Speaker 1 (13:24) you may have experienced that as a viewer of a little bit of disorientation of like, am I supposed to know this? The show makes it okay for you, but it does, I guess, reward the memory. Speaker 2 (13:35) Yeah, and Paul Higgins, who plays Drew and Loy, was... most notably like one of the funniest characters of all time on the thick of it. He's Speaker 1 (13:43) a great comedian. And, uh, Speaker 2 (13:45) I just feel like you can feel mildew rust. This, this is, and, and this is reflective, I think of England's kind of constant. identity crisis of like, are we an imperial country? Are we still, you know, a powerful intelligence service? Are we influencing the world around us or are we just lucky to be here? You know, this small island that doesn't make anything anymore, you know, and that came across in the visual language of this episode, I thought. And there's a Speaker 1 (14:19) great scene that does this in the first episode that accomplishes so many things, but it's the first time we see River this season in Diana's. new office as first desk and the combination of the rain and the giant windows, which play quite differently than the giant windows in another Regents Park set spy show, The Agency. The dampness leaking through the windows as the scene is an attempt at being emotional but fails. Yeah. It's operating on a higher level. Speaker 2 (14:46) Yeah, and I thought, like, you know, Jack Loudon, who may or may not become James Bond soon. Speaker 1 (14:53) Yeah, crazy. I Speaker 2 (14:54) think he had been Speaker 2 (14:57) River has been underserved as a character perhaps in the last couple of seasons. Specifically last season, even though I was enthusiastic about the season itself. Right. I felt like you could see over the last couple when they had to shoot Jack Loudon out. Speaker 1 (15:12) Yes. Speaker 2 (15:12) And that his schedule, because he's obviously a pretty popular actor and is in Pride and Prejudice coming up and, you know, maybe scarce if he is James Bond. Speaker 2 (15:23) That you could see certain scenes where certain sequences or certain storylines that felt like this is how much we have three weeks with him. We have to shoot his stuff. He's going to be in France. Speaker 1 (15:33) Look at wearing like a super sick, all black, like travel ensemble. Some Speaker 2 (15:38) of that is probably from books. Some of that is creative choices, but some of it I think is this is how much time we have this person when you're shooting. a show basically every year, you have to work around the schedules of the actors. And if it's going to go on for this long and these actors are starting to get bigger and bigger, Rosalind Eleazar is now like the star of the Chris Rock movie. Speaker 1 (15:58) And she was absent last season. I mean, she had one moment and then was gone and now is going to be back. Speaker 2 (16:02) Yeah. Gary Oldman is really the most consistent figure in this entire scenario. So it was exciting to me to see River with Diana. River with Jackson. River in the office again. Like, River moving around and this show kind of relocating itself around his character. Speaker 1 (16:21) And, you know, I don't know if we're spoiling the first episode. I'll refrain from it. But putting him in a different position emotionally, starting him... No, Speaker 2 (16:28) we Speaker 1 (16:28) can spoil the first episode. Okay, so in the first episode, it's established that his grandfather, played by Jonathan Pryce, has died. Yes. Between seasons. Now he still is appearing in flashbacks. And I think Jackson is like, show me the body. But it gives... Jack Loudon different notes to play and also allows him to be kind of disgusted and over all of it, not ping-ponging between what he wants the park to be and what he knows Slough House to be. He's just kind of sick of it and moving at his own tempo. But then also just the stakes are super high. Like it is, you can't pull this card every year in a show like this, but this is the season where they like pull a trip and alarm and they're like code black. turn off your phones. Like we're going dark. We all have to go Speaker 2 (17:09) to safe houses. And we all have Speaker 1 (17:10) to like, and it's, it's incredibly, it's incredibly exciting. And it, and again, I don't necessarily want to credit the new showrunner, but maybe I would credit some more time and space for this unit to work on this season. But the integration of, for example, Roddy's demeanor and his one-liners and his complete obliviousness. Much more seamless. It's much, it's toned down a lot. Yes. Like last season at its best, I think was. situation comedy, and I say that as high praise, but it was like four people standing in a room, and River would say the River line, Jackson would pass gas, and then Roddy would be like on a different planet and on a different show without any reality of like, I almost died tonight. Speaker 2 (17:52) And I also, you know, they have a nice big ensemble, but they don't always have something for everyone to do. Or they'll have like a, you know, I enjoyed River and Co. kind of being off. That was good last year. Doing stuff together. There was a lot of really good stuff from last season, but everything seems to be playing in harmony this season. And everything is in its right place. And I do wonder if they kind of like turn the knob down on Jackson. Yes. One or two slots. Not necessarily in terms of like his behavior, although it's still grotesque, but... He was in so much, I feel like, over the last couple of seasons that I was starting to be like, is this like a comedy about this guy? You know? Yes. And it's about like, he's the smartest guy in the room, but first he's going to fart in it and then he's going to drink everything and then he's going to smoke indoors. Speaker 1 (18:44) And always be right. Yeah. And always be smart. And that became a little bit of a crutch. Yeah, there was just something that was just really bracing about the A to B to C of this episode in which Struan Loy is killed. Flynn, who's the head of the dogs, finds out about this and asks... What's that? Flight? Flight, sorry. I'm watching like at slightly off speed. So I'm getting the names just like one. Or I'm just testing you. You know what I mean? It's the Mandela effect. I'm Speaker 2 (19:14) just Speaker 1 (19:14) a very big Flight fan. But on my version, it's Flynn. Yeah, sure. Like the Berenstain Bears with an E. She goes to Diana who says don't, saying maybe we should tell Lam. And Diana says no. And then she does go to Lam. And what I liked about it was there was no, Lamb's going to behave the way he's going to behave, but it didn't go through the comedic motions of him not caring about this. Yes. Like, clearly this is significant and concerning, and it's just pushing those emotional chips forward in