C - Curry

The Two Hungry Chefs

In this episode, chef Romy Gill joins the hosts to discuss the rich regional diversity of Indian cuisine and the impact of food culture on i

Key takeaways

• Romy Gill discusses her upbringing in West Bengal and how it exposed her to diverse Indian cultures beyond her Punjabi roots.
• The hosts credit chefs Atul Kochhar and Vineet Bhatia with bringing significant recognition to Indian cuisine via Michelin stars.

Main topics

• Regional Indian cuisine
• The terminology of 'curry'

Notable quotes

In kitchens... there is less racism in the hospitality because people love food.

Conclusion

A heartwarming exploration of how culinary traditions evolve through m

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) This is not how I, you know, this is the dish, but they'll still put a curry. Speaker 2 (0:05) So Speaker 1 (0:05) that really still used to upset, not upset me, really wind me up, but I just think I've given up. Speaker 2 (0:12) It's Speaker 1 (0:12) not going to, it's Speaker 2 (0:14) not going Speaker 1 (0:15) to. Speaker 2 (0:15) We all get to that point at some point. Speaker 1 (0:16) In kitchens, it's like learning so much. It's like world kitchens. If Speaker 2 (0:21) you go Speaker 1 (0:21) to a kitchen, people are from different countries. And there is less racism. in the hospitality because people love food. Speaker 3 (0:29) What's in your bag? What have you got? So I Speaker 1 (0:31) did not read my emails. Speaker 2 (0:39) Romy Gill, P-U-R letter C. Speaker 1 (0:42) Oh, wow. For Speaker 2 (0:43) curry. Speaker 1 (0:44) Yeah. Speaker 2 (0:45) Because we know how much you love curry. Speaker 1 (0:47) Yeah. But Speaker 2 (0:47) also we know that you frown upon me using curry powder. That's fair. Speaker 1 (0:58) It's fine. Each to their own. Speaker 2 (1:01) That pained her. Speaker 1 (1:03) I am not going to say you can't. Each to their Speaker 2 (1:06) own. Okay, fine. Would you like some fizz? It's an English fizz from Suffolk, Speaker 3 (1:12) I think. Speaker 1 (1:13) I think they're doing really good sparkling wines at the moment. We are. England's doing some Speaker 3 (1:17) very good wine. There is no good thing about climate change except for English wines. Speaker 3 (1:27) Honestly. Speaker 2 (1:27) Yes, you're Speaker 3 (1:28) right. It's improved with it. You're Speaker 2 (1:29) right. Speaker 3 (1:29) Yeah. Speaker 2 (1:30) I've heard that from the UK Wine Association person. Speaker 3 (1:35) I think that's where I actually got Speaker 2 (1:37) the line from. I think you Speaker 3 (1:38) told me about this. Speaker 2 (1:39) He stole the line from me. Who did you hear that from, Mike? Let's just do the cheers. Cheers. Speaker 3 (1:48) Welcome. Welcome, Romy. We're the two hungry chefs. We're the two hungry chefs. Speaker 2 (1:53) And we're always hungry and we've got very hungry friends, which is why for once we invite you here for us to cook for you. Yeah, Speaker 1 (2:00) I'm so excited. I love, love people cooking for me. Speaker 2 (2:04) I love to cook for you. Speaker 3 (2:04) I've cooked for you once before. A few times, actually. You like to come to my restaurants, which is nice. No, Speaker 1 (2:09) you have Speaker 3 (2:09) cooked Speaker 1 (2:09) for me many times, and I love your food. And I've eaten Jeremy's food a few times. Yeah, Speaker 2 (2:13) we have. And we all know each other, obviously, from Ready, Steady, Cook days. Yeah. You know, it's nice to have the RSC family back. Speaker 1 (2:20) Yeah. Speaker 2 (2:21) In full swing. Speaker 3 (2:22) Absolutely. It's a joy. It's a joy to have you. Speaker 1 (2:25) And also, C, why couldn't you say C for curry? Why not courage? Speaker 2 (2:29) Courage. Curry courage. Well, it's our podcast. We can change it. You won't, right? Courage. Speaker 1 (2:35) Because to be in this industry and to come from a background where, you know, not many female chefs around in India, I mean, now, yes, before, to be able to open a restaurant in a very small town and then to get that recognition, I think that takes courage. Speaker 3 (2:55) It does. It takes massive courage. Round of applause for you for that. The Speaker 2 (3:00) restaurant was, you had the restaurant for quite a while. How many years did you run it for? It Speaker 1 (3:04) was Romy's Kitchen. I started my career from Romy's Kitchen. So I wanted a name that kind of reflected my cooking. You know, when I cook, it's always about storytelling. Even if you see my books, it's about storytelling. It's about memories. It's about, you know, the food that I grew up in India. And especially if people think about Indian food. And like China as well, you know, Chinese food, Indian food. It's very different from one another. It's very regional. We speak different languages. We have different dialects. We have different traditions, rituals. The food surrounded around it is very, very different, you know. Speaker 2 (3:43) You opened a restaurant in quite a small town. Yeah. Speaker 2 (3:48) But it wasn't a traditional, what we would say is an English curry house, right? It Speaker 1 (3:55) wasn't, no. I think curry houses have a place. You have to give a lot to that. I think we are today here is because of the curry house. They gave the British people an introduction to spices, the different curries. Speaker 1 (4:10) But said that, I would not serve that in my restaurant because that's not the food I grew up eating in India. We've Speaker 3 (4:17) both been your food and it's fresh. It's insane. It's incredible. You opened my eyes to a whole new style of cuisine. But explain what you mean by not the food that you grew up. Like, tell me about the sort of regional cuisine that you cook. the influences that you draw from in your cooking? So Speaker 1 (4:38) my dad and my mom, they're from north part of India, which is from Punjab. So I'm a Sikh. I'm from a Punjabi background. My dad, like many... people migrated to West Bengal in search of work and my dad worked in a steel plant. So he was a farmer's son. He didn't want to do farming. So I think I'm so grateful to my dad that he moved there because I was surrounded with culture from different parts of India. So a lot of people come to work there. If I was born in Punjab, Of course, I would have the knowledge about the spices, but the way of cooking would be so different. You know, I would be growing up in a culture, in a village or town, wherever, Punjabi food. Speaker 2 (5:25) The different regions obviously have their different ways of cooking, but obviously they all, I guess, what's the right word? Converge at some point, you know, with the spices, like spices being the base of your cooking, of Indian cooking. The one thing that I go to when I try and distinguish something simple, like samosas, for example, a Punjabi samosa versus, say, a Gujarati samosa. Very different. Very, very different. Obviously, they've both got a pastry encasing and something spicy inside, but the difference of those, they must come from something. But I don't know what. Is Speaker 3 (6:06) it regional availability? Yes. Is it Speaker 1 (6:08) the seasons? It's also the Gujarati food is a little bit sweeter. So they add a lot of sugar to different things, Speaker 2 (6:15) you Speaker 1 (6:15) know, also vegetarian as well. A lot of parts where fish, they eat fish as well. They dry the fish, you know, and they dry the fish, they eat that. So different parts within that Gujarat, within Gujaratis, they eat different food. And similarly, Punjabis will eat different food. Are Speaker 2 (6:30) Punjabis more meaty? Speaker 1 (6:33) Depends. You know, mostly men used to years and years ago. with their drinks will eat meat or if there is a wedding, there's meat or fish around. But usually at home still, people eat a lot of vegetarian food. So we very much plant-based food. Speaker 3 (6:48) So Speaker 1 (6:49) like a lot of Sikhs who believe in the Sikh culture, you know, they don't even eat, you know, they won't drink, they won't eat meat or eggs even. They're pure vegetarians. They have a, you know, they'll eat dairy and everything. A lot of them won't. So if you go to Bengal, where I'm born and brought up, we eat a lot of fish there, a lot of rice there. So all dependent, like you said, you know, how the weather is, the soil is. It all depends on that, what we have. And that's how we kind of, you know, depending on the region. Yeah, which is Speaker 3 (7:21) fascinating. Yeah, because that's slowly starting to creep. into the UK now, right? Speaker 1 (7:27) Yeah. Speaker 3 (7:28) Like, the regional differences in the cuisine you're starting to see pop up in restaurant-specific. But I don't think people understand, no. They've Speaker 1 (7:36) started to, actually. They've started to, especially in London. Yes. But London's a Speaker 2 (7:41) bubble. Speaker 1 (7:41) So, no, you have to understand that a lot of people don't like when I say that is that Dishoom completely changed the understanding of... British food, like, you know, understanding of Indian food. Right. Because they started with regional food. Sure. And also you have to give a lot of credit to Atul Kochhar and Vineet Bhatia. Yeah. They were the first Indian chefs to get Michelin in the same year. Speaker 2 (8:04) Yes. What I mean by, I think, that the sort of mass market aren't necessarily that used to, like, the regional Indian cuisines and is that I feel like there's not really as much this, like, Speaker 2 (8:21) educational distinguishing between the cuisines as there are in Chinese cuisines and their regional distinction. So, for example, you could talk to most people and say, oh, what do you think about Chinese food? And they might 10 years ago not have said, oh, I really like Chinese food. Speaker 2 (8:42) I don't think you'd get the same answer or a similar answer in when you ask about Indian cuisine. I think Speaker 3 (8:49) that's the circles you're in. Speaker 1 (8:52) Yeah. Speaker 3 (8:53) I think. Okay. Okay. In, in, in my experience, I still think to this day. like the people I speak to aren't necessarily understanding the differences in Chinese in you know Cantonese Malaysian whatever like they're still grouping massively okay Speaker 2 (9:13) okay so you fit you feel like actually we're they're in the same boat yeah I still feel like mass grouping of like Asian or Southeast Asian food yeah Speaker 3 (9:22) I feel like with School of Walk you're definitely you've been one of the the the leaders in your industry of showcasing the different regions and educating people. And it all comes down to education at the end of the day, right? Absolutely. And that's why you salute people like Atul and Vivek because they've been industry leading alongside yourself. You could add in Asma Khan and, you know, these titans who are showcasing as well. But you only know when you know. And I feel like maybe in my, not necessarily London bubble, but my hospitality bubble. Yeah. There's much more of a distinction now than there's ever been with Indian regional cuisine. Speaker 2 (10:03) Yeah, Speaker 3 (10:04) maybe it's the London thing. And Southeast Asian. Speaker 2 (10:07) But Speaker 3 (10:07) I think to the public, because I've been doing quite a lot of public-facing consumer shows over cuisines recently with Taste Test. Speaker 3 (10:19) I don't necessarily think that's filtering down to the general public. I Speaker 2 (10:24) think it takes time, a lot of time. And I liken it to, I mean, 15 years ago, we were working with, you know, a different appliance sponsor and they were trying to push their steam ovens. And even 15 years later, like most people don't know how to use a steam oven today, you know? And so like those things take a long time to be able to like educate. people or the masses certainly yeah about something quite what a big group of people seems is quite niche um is very very difficult you've done a lot of that through your books your cookbooks things like that let's bring it back to curry though i think like curry as a term like what what do you what do you think about curry as a term in general like like are you like does it Does it excite you or does it make you feel like it's kind of like overused as like it's too general? Yeah. I Speaker 1 (11:21) think it used to bother me quite a lot because in India we don't say curry, you know, because any dish that we make has a name. Speaker 2 (11:29) Right. So Speaker 1 (11:30) it's and everything here