The Truth About the Biggest Act of Domestic Terrorism in American History

The Tucker Carlson Show

Kathy Sanders, who lost her two young grandchildren in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, shares her decades-long investigation into the attack

Key takeaways

• The official story of Tim McVeigh as a lone wolf terrorist is increasingly seen as a fabrication by survivors and investigators like Kathy Sanders.

Main topics

• The Oklahoma City bombing of April 19, 1995
• Challenging the lone wolf narrative

Notable quotes

"It won't be very long when I tell someone I lost my grandchildren in the bombing, they'll say, which one?"

Conclusion

Kathy Sanders' decades-long pursuit of truth reveals deep inconsistencies in the official

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:04) Ever notice whenever there's a history-changing act of violence, it was a lone wolf? It was a lone wolf. It was a random crazy guy. We have no idea why he did it. That would be the guy who killed JFK and RFK and MLK and the Butler shooting. I mean, it just goes on and on and on. Almost all shootings in real life are between people who know each other or trying to steal something from one another. But all the political killings are just some random crazy person. It's weird, isn't it? What are the chances? Speaker 1 (0:34) But when you question the official story, the people in charge don't even respond. They react like people have got something to hide. They just attack you. That's what liars do. Journalists doing their job, which is seeking real answers, are a massive threat to their power. So noticing is the crime. And that's certainly the case with the subject of our new series, The OKC Bomb Files. This is the story of what actually happened, to the extent we know, at the 1995 bombing in Oklahoma City that killed 168 people. Now, you'll recall that the feds told us the bomber was a guy called Tim McVeigh, and he was a veteran white supremacist lone wolf. Speaker 1 (1:16) But over the past 31 years, a lot of evidence has accumulated to suggest, well, really to show that's a full-blown lie. There were many more people involved in that crime. We're talking to a person today who lost her two young grandsons in that bombing, and she has spent the last 30 years investigating the attack herself. She's smart, she's methodical, she's not crazy, and she has a lot to say. She's here today to tell us why she believes that the FBI's story about Tim McVeigh acting alone is a lie, and who else may have been involved, and how the government knows more than it has admitted. Here's Kathy Sanders. Kathy, thank you so much for doing this. Well, it's my pleasure. Thank you. I think most Americans under, let's say, 40, have only a dim understanding, if any knowledge at all, about what happened in Oklahoma City. Can you tell the outline of the story for us? I'll be happy to. Speaker 1 (2:23) People don't know about Oklahoma City because it's not even in the history books, not even in Oklahoma. What happened to me was on April 19, 1995, I woke up one morning and I went to the bedroom next to mine because my grandchildren lived in my home. My daughter was a young divorced mother and Chase and Colton lived in our home and everything in our life evolved around these little boys. And I went in to wake them up. And they weren't in there. And I thought, how strange. So I walked down the hall to the end of the hallway. And sometime during the night, Tucker, those two little boys, two and three years old, had toddled down the hall and gotten in bed with their mother where they spent the last night of their lives. I turned on the light in the bedroom like I did every morning. Speaker 1 (3:18) At our house, we always started with a song. It's like, good morning to you, good morning to you. We're all in our places with sunshiny faces. What a nice way to start a new Wednesday. And the little boys begin to giggle, and we get them ready for school, for daycare. In our home, it was a group effort. Edie's working on the boys. I'm working on the boys, brushing their teeth. And we get them all dressed and take them into the kitchen where we feed them breakfast. Speaker 1 (3:50) Edie and I load them in the car because she and I not only lived together, we worked together downtown, and we took the boys and dropped them off at the daycare. I remember the little crumbs on... Colton's face when we left him. We went on to our office to go to work. Edie had been sick on Monday and Tuesday before the bombing on Wednesday, and she had kept the boys at home with her. She was going to stay home on Wednesday as well, but on Tuesday night, she got a call from a co-worker that said, Edie, you've got to come to work tomorrow because we're having the office birthday parties for the people whose birthdays were in April, and it was Edie and another girl's. And so Edie agreed she would come in, but she might go home afterwards if she still felt bad. So she went into the office. Speaker 1 (4:44) I'm two floors above her, and she's walking across the floor to blow out the candles on her birthday cake when the bomb goes off. It's this huge explosion, unlike anything I'd ever heard before. I knew something had happened, and it was bad. So she and I, I ran the two floors down to her office, and I opened the door, and everybody's looking. out the windows. They're trying to figure out what happened. Someone is on the phone and they hang up the phone and they said they just blew up the bank. And I said, Edie, let's go see. So we run down three flights of stairs and out the front door of our office, which was three blocks from the Murrah. And there wasn't a car one moving in the street. It was like we'd entered the twilight zone. Speaker 1 (5:40) We look up the street. The bank's intact. There's big sheets of plate glass falling down around us. I had no idea what had happened. And Edie turned to go back into the building where it was safe. And I'm walking behind her. And then I look up the street. And I see the smoke rising from the Murrah building. And I said, Edie, the babies. So we take off running, and we get to the south side of the street. And she had tennis shoes on because she was planning on going home, and the parking lot was a long way from our building. I didn't. I couldn't keep up with her. I said, Edie, wait, wait, wait up. We stop at the south side of the building. Speaker 1 (6:24) And we're surveying the damage. And the windows were all blown out of the windows. And there were blinds just dangling in the air like ruptured blood vessels. It was just a mess. I'd never seen anything like it. And then we hear, boom, boom, boom. And we see this black billowing smoke. And I didn't know what that was. But we turned and we ran to the north side of the building. And when we did, it was the cars in the parking lot blowing up. And I turned back to look behind me. And we saw the daycare. The Murrah building was nothing left but just a pancake pile of rubble. Speaker 1 (7:20) And my daughter falls to her knees, and she begins to cry, my babies, my babies. And Tucker, that was the first time in my daughter's life she had a problem that her mother wasn't going to be able to fix. We're running through the rubble trying to find the babies, and a second bomb threat came, and people were running all away from the building. They were stampeding, trying to get away. Another bomb, another bomb. Well, we're trying to get in. And a law enforcement official grabbed us and said, you can't go in. He physically made us leave the area. We were told to go to the children's hospital, that that's where they were going to take the children when they were removed from the building. So at the hospital. Speaker 1 (8:15) I lost all track of time, but my son was an off-duty police officer, and he had seen his mother and sister on TV, and he came downtown, and he said, Mama, don't worry, I'm going to find the boys. And he left, and he came back, and I knew when he walked through the door, something was wrong. And I jumped up, and I said, Danny, Danny, what is it? What is it, son? He goes, Mama, did Colton have on little green shorts and a white shirt? And I said, Yes, son. Yeah, that's Colton. And I see the tears on his face. And I said, Son, is the baby gone? Is the baby gone? And he puts his big old arms around me and goes, Yeah, Mama, I'm sorry. Colton's gone. And he held me for a few minutes, and then he sat me in a chair, and he goes, Mama, where's Edie? Speaker 1 (9:13) Well, by this time, I couldn't stand watching her grieve the loss of the children. I was grieving the loss of the children. I was grieving for her. It was just horrible. And I said, son, she's around the corner in the chaplain's office. And in a few minutes, I heard a blood-curdling scream, and I knew my son had found my daughter. And later that day, he found my oldest grandson had also been toe-tagged. Nothing like this had ever happened in my life. I mean, this was so foreign to me. I remember Tucker telling an interviewer when asked about this, just in the weeks after the bombing. I told him, you know, it won't be very long when I tell someone I lost my grandchildren in the bombing, they'll say, which one? And haven't we come a long way? Speaker 1 (10:10) We've had so many bombings, so many school shootings. The whole world has changed. And I wouldn't believe this story about the bombing if it hadn't happened to me. I would have been one of those people. I live in la-la land. I like to be happy. I would have never believed anything like this could have happened. A few weeks after... the bombing. We had a dinner at our home. I reached out to the 19 families that lost their kids. We're sitting in the den. We're talking about our children. People were saying, well, my little girl lost her arm. And I remember one mother saying, the only thing I ever seen about my baby again was his toes. I got to touch, kiss his little toes. And another grandmother, her baby was, grandson was beheaded. Speaker 1 (11:09) And then one mother speaks up and she said, well, when I dropped my son off there, I saw the bomb squad downtown. We didn't believe her. The next day... When she dropped her son off that morning, of course, before the bombing, she saw a bomb squad? She saw the bomb squad downtown there at the Murrah building when she was taking her son in. Before the bombing? Before the bomb went off. So electrolytes, that's a term people are using everywhere suddenly and for good reason. Staying hydrated is key to health. You need electrolyte salts to do that, but what salts do you use? Well, we think the answer is Redmond salt. Most electrolyte brands hide where their sodium comes from because the answers are a little off-putting. Relight by Redmond is an exception. Speaker 1 (11:58) to this. Redmond has mined its salt from Utah since 1958, meaning the final product is totally real. Most things at the grocery store are not that real. Sorry. So there's no sugar, no artificial sweeteners, colors, flavors, and not a single chemical preservative. Relight has over 60 trace minerals, great and natural for all of your bodily systems. Whether you're getting ready for a workout or fighting to get through the day, Relight will work. 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And that's the one I thought I should believe. Of course, everyone did. But it's like, were they down there? And it made my husband so mad. The next day, he went down to the fire station. The chief said, no, we didn't have our bomb squad down there. We didn't. There wasn't any prior knowledge. Because some other people had said they'd seen the bomb squad truck with the bomb