Ex-CIA Agent Speaks Out: JFK, 9-11, UAPs, MLK, MKUltra & Everything Trump Is Hiding

The Tucker Carlson Show

A former CIA officer reveals his disillusionment with the agency over COVID origins, vaccine mandates, and alleged cover-ups. He claims the pandemic likely originated from a lab in Wuhan and accuses intelligence leaders

Key takeaways

• CIA suppressed early evidence linking COVID to a lab leak

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) The city moves fast, but your vibe, that's different. Sharper, smoother, more alive. I just a boy, a boy, habanthak you in this wild night, a pyrn to say my boy, so that's just a boy. The new Honda city isn't just made to drive, it's made to feel. The new Honda City, all new vibe. Thanks a lot for doing this. How long were you at CIA? I joined the CIA in 2013. I was in the State Department before that, private sector. I served a Second Ranger Battalion, State Department, CIA. When did you leave CIA? I retired on 30 June, so real recently. Month ago? Yep. Yep. Last year you became a whistleblower. It was before last year, but yes. I think it started long before last year and had to do with vaccine mandates, which is a separate topic from COVID origins, but yes. You first came into my attention anyway, and thank you for fighting vaccine mandates, one of those countries ever done. But COVID origins, you went very public, you testified in the Congress. Why did you decide to do that? Well, there's a subpoena. That helps make a decision process. Okay. So, no, but in all honesty, I came forward and I had done a transcribed interview for six hours and 40 minutes behind closed doors with the Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee. When it looked like that the CIA was obstructing our investigation, when it looked like every obstacle was being put in place, when the subpoena came, I was, frankly, I was happy to go. I was happy to speak publicly. But then you become, I mean, you're in a different category once you do that, I think. That's a big decision, isn't it? It is. It is. You know, I hate to say it, I had some practice with the COVID vaccine mandates. And frankly, you know, maybe we'll be touching on this earlier. But that story that came out publicly on May 13th in front of Senator Rand Paul's committee, I had passed that story to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in April of 2024. I'd also given it to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, two oversight bodies in 2023. And the first time I came and spoke to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on COVID origins was actually in November of 2021. Now, the story was a little different then. but I came forward multiple times trying to let them know that we're being lied to. So those two committees, you pronounce their, I mean, you spelled out their formal names, but just the House and Senate and Intel committees, the oversight committees. This is the legislative branch's oversight of the most powerful, arguably the most powerful agencies in the government, which have very little civilian control, particularly CIA. I think there are only, what, three appointees at CIA? I believe three appointees, which is, in my opinion, not enough. Oh, it's totally crazy because it means whoever's elected by the public doesn't have any control over this agency, which I think is proven true. But anyway, the control is supposed to come from the Congress in the form of these two committees. So when you tell them something really rotten is happening at CIA where you work, you expect they're going to do something about it. I did. I think COVID opened my eyes. I was naive. I was an operations office. sir. So I didn't, I spent most of my time out in the field. Collecting intelligence, recruiting spies. That was my job. I was not an analyst. I was not collecting other people's intelligence and turning it into finished intelligence. And I was a bit naive about the process. You're doing the traditional work. When people hear the term CIA, they think of what you are doing for a living. Yes. Which is not what most people there do. Correct. Correct. You know, the director of operations does the conducts the operations for the agency. We collect the intelligence. We collect the intelligence. And this is why this whole... Like living in foreign countries. Correct. You know, I was gifted many things from the agency. I was gifted Mandarin language training, Arabic language training. I probably could use some brush up on Arabic, but my Mandarin's still pretty good. You know, and they give us a lot of authority to live and work overseas. I love the job. I love the job. And despite everything that's happened, I actually still think if you're a motivated, critical thinker, you should try and get into the director of operations. It is a fun job. It's a good job. I tried to get in for that exact reason. Probably never should have admitted that because I've been accused of being a tool to CIA ever since, which I'm not. I think the center of it will make it clear I'm not. But for that reason, I thought it sounded like a very interesting job. It's great. You don't think about the politics. There's no politics in the field. It's such a small group of people that you get to come back and talk to about what you're doing. So if you're in the office, you come back and you're like, hey, I collected this intelligence. I recruited this spy. I did this operational act. The only people who can cheer you on is that small fraternity of people. And so it's a special. It was a blessing and a gift. Everything good in my life was touched by working at the CIA, which is why COVID woke me up to sort of a mess. I mean, we're supposed to be, and people laugh when I said. So you're not living in McLean, Virginia, at headquarters, near a headquarter. You're like abroad, right? For a lot of this time. Oh, most of my career. Yeah, it was abroad. It was abroad. And I loved it. I finally came back to headquarters in 2019, right before COVID hit. And being a CIA case officer, or even any intelligence officer, your job and people are going to laugh, especially when you say CIA, our job is truth. So we go out, we go into this. of misinformation, lies, different types of motives, and we're supposed to pull out that little tiny nugget of truth, write it up and present it to policymakers so that they can make wise decisions. In the most altruistic way, that is what we're supposed to do. And what COVID revealed was most of us don't, most of the agency, they lost their sense of discernment. They gave up on taking a hard look at what was happening. around them. And I could not believe, I mean, I was running work on financial intelligence against strategic rivals. And I had an office. I was running two big branches. And I had like seven people who had come to my office every day and like, we're not crazy. We're not crazy. This, this masking, this thing where they want to test us all the time, like this shot, we're not crazy. This doesn't seem right. And that was, that's what started me down the road. There was a few other things before that. It was, you know, a few other things before that opened my eyes. But I'm also a slow learner. I mean, I spent some time in the Middle East looking at dumpster fires saying, well, you know, I know we didn't actually get this done, but thank God we're here for democracy. So I mean, I own that. You believe that? I did. I did for a long time. I no longer, I think that we probably we should take a good, hard look at the decisions we're making on foreign policy. And I think that whole thing about no new foreign wars was probably a good idea. Most Americans were strongly in favor of that, plank in the platform. Homeownership has always been at the center of the American dream. It is an actual asset, a place people work their entire lives to build, a place of stability and security and real value. Right now, though, too many homeowners are stuck swiping credit cards to cover groceries. There's basically a survival tax of 20% interest or more. 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So there's point in blank, where did COVID come from, do you believe? It was a lab incident. It was a lab incident in Wuhan. And it spread from, it was already, the cat was already out of the bag. I think if I, you know, people look at my public testimony, I'm convinced that the intelligence community could have made a pretty sound assessment by mid-2020, that there was a significant chance that this was some variety of lab incident that occurred that caused this pandemic. And a lab incident changes how we view public health, public health policy. So if it's a natural incident, I have a feeling, you know, if Americans, and I said this during the testimony, if Americans knew that the basis for the vaccines, for example, came from a nucleotide sequence that was given to us by the Chinese government. And we just took it, put it into a computer model, and said, well, here's our vaccine. And people were like, but didn't you just say it came from some lab in China and Wuhan? They probably would be a little more hesitant to put that in their body. I personally think any new technology is unwise to... That's confirmed. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We got, I think it was, I forget the exact date. It was early January. The nucleotide sequence was sent from the Chinese CDC over to, I believe it was our CDC, but it was sent over to the health establishment here in the United States. We took that. And it was put into a computer modeling that, I mean, my guess is there was probably a lot of previous work done on COVID. So, sorry, on coronavirus. research. I should be precise on that. There's all sorts of coronaviruses that we've been looking at over the over the years. It was a famous outbreak, of course, in Asia. So do you believe that the virus just escaped from the lab, the famous lab in Wuhan? Do you think it was an accident? I think that we need more data from the CIA to actually fill out what Director Gabbard was doing. But yes, I think that it escaped from a lab in Wuhan, and it's spread everywhere. Inadvertently. Inevertently, I think. I think. There's no direct evidence right now that says, yes, they did it deliberately. That's quite a hedged answer. There's no direct evidence right now that they did it deliberately. So the possibility exists. Possibility exists because, I mean, I'd love to give you a direct answer. Right. But the CIA would have had to have given the information that was requested from Director Gabbard's Directors and Isters Group. That probably could have cleared everything up. We, when I conduct an investigation, actually an intelligence operation, if I'm going after a target, first thing I do is put together a timeline. Okay, a timeline of events, known things about the target that we're investigating. If I don't have everything that goes in that timeline, I can't give you a full answer. Right. And, well, CIA simply refused to provide the information. And it was obvious early in the outbreak that this was from the lab. I mean, there were Chinese researchers who said it. And then subsequently, you know, disappeared. But people were saying this from February of 2020. Yeah. And it always seemed likely to me. But the U.S. government from the very beginning went along with this pangolin lie. Yeah. And then subsequent to that, even when it became obvious that it was a lie, we were describing continued the cover-up. Why? Well, part of the reason, I mean, Fauci is part of that reason. And, you know, I'm going to be very blunt about it. And since I'm going to be blunt and also give my opinion, you know, when I was sitting in front of the Senate, I wanted to make sure I was very accurate in everything I said. I don't want to give some supposition, but I will give a little supposition here as well because, you know, I have a brain, I think. You know, I've got synapses that fire off and occasionally when I see data, I don't, you know, if it look, yeah, quacks like a duck. Right. So I think Anthony Fauci was fully aware that the funding that had gone on for various types of dangerous research, dangerous gain of function research, have been going on for a very long time. Okay? different viruses, different bacteria. And, you know, there are, I see connections to, for good reasons as well, biodefense. I see connections to research that goes on. But I think they understood that a house of cards was going to fall down. If this got out too quickly that there is a distinct possibility that American know-how, American expertise, I mean, we really do. I mean, I take a look at some of the scientists that the IC relies on for expert advice. These people are really, really impressive people, okay? You know, they receive funding to go do research. They're involved in health. They're involved in biodefense. All of a sudden, you've got a virus that looks, boy, it's sure. There's a couple ties. the tie the financing over to Wuhan, China. He had to know. He had to know what that looks like at the end of the day. So instead, based on everything that's out there, he gets the proximal origins of SARS Cove 2 written with his buddies. That paper gets waved around the I-C as the end-all be-all as the paper to prove that, yes, it's a zoonotic origin. And he had to know when he's pushing these type of experts, a variety of experts that he pushed towards the IC. Once in February of 2020 and again in June of 2021, he pushes those experts in. He wants to ensure that narrative is pushed at the IC level. And unfortunately, I'm going back to the comment I made before, you know, some people just appeared to swallow like hook line and sinker. There was actually, I read an email where a very senior person. And I wish I could name names, but a very senior person, basically wave that paper around and said, well, we've got our answer. That was somebody who was in a position to sort of influence, not sort of, in a position to influence how the IC looked at SARS-Cove 2. Why are they covering it up now? Fouchy's gone, new administration. I think that there's an embarrassment piece again. I think, you know, you don't want to be caught with your pants down. I think that... You don't want to be caught? At all. Covering up from a global pandemic that killed hundreds of thousands of people. Yeah. So there's, I think, I think, and hold on, let me be very clear about who doesn't want to be caught with their pants down causing a global pandemic. Very, the senior people within DNIs, the part of the DNA that's responsible for looking into, WMD matters and bio-weapons matters and the Weapons and Counter-Proliferation Center over at the CIA. There's very senior people over there that had a heavy hand in what happened. And it's not the analyst, like the technical analysts that were pushing saying, hey, listen, guys, this looks like this is a lab leak. Their careers were destroyed for pushing it. This is the story that I really want to make sure it gets out. I want to correct the record. They were not bribed. there was a number of analysts inside the CIA, and they did everything in their power to include writing a little dissent email that went all the way up to the top of WCPMC, saying, hey, listen, guys, we're technical experts, and I'm paraphrasing, obviously, we have this much expertise, and it looks like a lab leak. Their careers were destroyed after that. They weren't no longer part of that establishment. and if there's ever a... So the entire leadership of CIA swung behind this lie that it was from an animal? Yeah. And why are they still doing it? Well, because I... Well, I'll tell you what, when the CIA produces the documents that were requested to help finish the investigation, I think we'll have a better answer on why. But how can CIA get away with not producing those documents or documents from the Kennedy assassination 63 years ago? they also haven't produced, as you know. Who allows that to happen? Oh, that's a pack question. There's a few pieces to that. So senior managers allow it to happen inside the CIA. And oversight, to some extent, let's it, well, oversight has failed clearly over the years. I'm not criticizing, right now I just want to be clear. I think actually Rick Crawford is on it right now. I'm definitely criticized. He'd be the member of Congress who oversees the House in Tokyo. Yes, yes. So historically they've abdicated their role in oversight. Let me give you an example. I want to give you a very clear example. When I was a young officer, not a young officer, but I had earned my stripes, done my work, and I was going to do my first meeting with a liaison service. Now most of the time it's like, good luck, buddy. Yeah, have fun. I actually had a senior officer pull me aside. He said, listen, here's how this. Reasons would be a foreign intel. Foreign Intel Service. So this is where you get declared to the Foreign Intel Service. You're no longer hiding from everybody. And you're working together on goals that you both care about, hopefully. And he said, listen, this isn't going to go well. Here's how this is going to happen. Here's what I need you to do. He did what rarely happens for CIA ops officers. He trained the junior officer on how to handle the meeting. I was so grateful. Years later, and I love the guy, years later, He disagrees with me, by the way, on just about everything of substance, but he's a great officer. And he pulls me aside. I had gotten a job where I was interacting with oversight on a very regular basis. My job was to ensure that the things that were coming from the CIA that were going over to oversight were truthful, honest. We were producing things that was valuable for them to actually do their job. So I had never really done that kind of work. I dealt with oversight before. He says, here's how oversight works. Take, for example, we are supposed to report all of the organizations that have human rights abuses that we work with. I mean, the CIA works with bad people. That happens. It's by statute. We're allowed to do that. But we have to report it. We have to make sure that they know. So we give them a list. And I don't know if it's quarterly or every other year or whatever it is, but there's a report that comes out. And he said, if, he was explaining to me, let's say somebody on the other side of the table says, hey, this service here, I don't like this. I don't want you working with this service. So he says, how do you handle that? I'm like, I don't know, you tell me. He goes, you say, well, just tell us to stop. And the meaning is, we know that you can tell us to stop, but you got to get everybody else to tell you to stop. And if we keep doing it, you got to get everybody else to pull the purse. strengths and that never happens. So like you should just tell us to stop doing it then. It's become a kabuki dance. In my opinion, a kabuki dance. I sat in an oversight meeting that was three years after a huge failure happened and they're asking the people sitting on the other side. The other people are talking to the agency officers. They're like, has anyone been held accountable for something that happened three years prior? And the agency lawyer leans in and says, we're holding the system accountable. So unless... How are we doing that? I don't... I don't... I don't... Well, if they're holding the system accountable, they need some work because the system keeps chugging away. 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Lots of brands claim to support liver health, but do so before their products have gone through testing. This has been tested. Everything checks all the boxes. Visit dosedaily.com slash Tucker. use the code Tucker for 35% off. That's dosedaily.com slash Tucker, code Tucker, 35% off. You're going to love it. Where does Tom Cotton, who is the senator who chairs the Senate Selects Committee on Intelligence, where does he fit into all this? Well, I think he's a chairleader for everything we do. He has no role in oversight. I think he's a complete cheerleader. And I'll give you a very good example. I provide you a couple documents here. after my hearing Senator Rand Paul sent another subpoena over to the OD&I saying we need all of this information I'll leave it with you we want it well Director Gabbert leaves Paltie takes over and Pulte gets a letter from Senator Tom Cotton's team saying hey listen here's what you need to understand Sissy maintains oversight responsibility. Since he's a Senate, Intelligence Committee. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. We maintain primacy on an oversight for these sort of matters. And so, hey, Pulte, make sure, make sure that you consult us before you decide to give anything over to them. Okay, and not only that, I said that I had done a six-hour and 40-minute transcribed interview in a skiff in March of this year for his gag. Republicans and Democrats were both Well, let me clarify that. The Democrat tried to leave, but I insisted that he stay. Now, I finished that transcribed interview. They won't give it back. They won't give it back to his gag. His gag is the... Sorry, the Homeland Security Government Affairs Committee, the one that Rand Paul's on and Ron Johnson's on. I think some of the Democrats around are Federman, a few others. Wouldn't know. They didn't show up to the hearing. So... You know, Sissy's saying you can't have your own transcribed interview. Sissy's saying we are the ones who have primacy over oversight over the Intel community, but they're not doing oversight. And how do I know they're not doing oversight? I've already sort of mentioned it. I went to Sissy in April of 2024, and I told them a