501 - Donald Trump’s Endgame

The Tim Dillon Show

Tim Dillon interviews New York Times reporters Jonathan Swan and Maggie Haberman about their book 'Regime Change,' covering Trump's first term, with discussions on power, nuclear temptation, and U.S.-Israel relations. The episode critiques media saturation and public apathy toward political realities.

Key takeaways

• Trump seeks historical legacy through power displays
• Nuclear use is a fantasy he contemplates deeply
• Media access requires institutional backing

Transcript preview

Ladies and gentlemen welcome with the Tim Dylan show. We have Jonathan Swan coming on and Maggie Haberman, they are the reporters from the New York Times who just wrote the biggest political book of the year regime change and this thing sold out everywhere and it is it's about the first year of the Trump presidency we talk Epstein, the war in Iran, the assassination attempt, Charlie Kirk, etc. And it's doing very well I was in a suburb of Iran, and I tried to get the book and some woman is you kind of you know a little bit of a larger woman was like it's sold out you know like it's kind of one of these there's just a certain type of person who works in a bookstore it's a larger lass who has kind of that wet hair that kind of you know what I mean it's kind of curly but it's not you know and she's got like a lany And she's behind the information desk and you're like, hey, what about regime changes? She's like, it's sold out. They're doing a reprinting now. And you're like, okay. Great. So I couldn't even get it. I haven't read it. And I won't. But I think it's important to discuss, no, because I know a lot of what's in it. But I will read it. I haven't read it. And I don't think I won't. And I won't You should. Who cares? Everyone's reading it. We talk about Vance. We talk about Trump. Cash Patel. We try to get into stuff. It's hard to do anything in 50 minutes, which is what I realize. You know, they're on this massive press tour. And they, and I want to go deep with them and we tried and it is pretty good. I think the interview is good. But this is why when Roggin this three hours with people it is much better because you scratch the surface But they're both really sharp reporters and they have tons of access to the White House But I tried to get that book I couldn't get it and then I went over to William Sonoma to try to buy to buy a bunch of stuff and this woman was walking me around the store Halala? Hala? And we got a bunch of stuff, but then I tried to do the tap and she goes, we need the actual card. Now I just have Apple pay on the phone. I don't have the card info. So we had spent about 40 minutes walking around the store, selecting different things and choosing colors of things. And then she goes, we don't, you got it, we need the actual information. And then I just had to get in my car and leave. And I felt bad about that. I'll go back today with my actual card. I don't know. I think they had the order and I might just come in with my actual card. They still have the order I got a bunch of stuff I need. Got a nice coffee maker, a brevel. Nice espresso, uh, cappuccino maker. A bunch of stuff I need. Got a nice coffee maker, a brevel. Nice espresso, uh, cappuccino maker. And, uh, exciting stuff. And, uh, uh, exciting stuff. exciting stuff there. So this interview is coming up and we hope you enjoy it. I think it's a great interview. But again, it's like they're writing for the New York Times. So again, there's no evidence, Epstein's intelligence, and they haven't seen any evidence. No one's seen evidence. No one, you know, it's all, you know, okay. All right. All you can do is ask. And what people mean by that is like that they weren't in the room. Like there's, there is evidence. I'm not trying to impugn their credibility because I know that they're like straight-laced reporters. They're like, we have not seen evidence. And it's like, well, there is, though. But I understand you haven't seen enough evidence to make that claim okay, because they have standards, I appreciate, but it's like, well, there is evidence. There's just not like, maybe like, maybe you couldn't convict him in court, like that type of evidence. But I also think there's that evidence. Also, I believe there's that, ironically enough, I actually believe there's that evidence too. But you know, you do the best you can. And I appreciated them coming on. These are the big. dogs at the New York Times. I asked them if they were afraid of getting replaced by me because... And the Princess Diana Bear. Hello, I'm the bear. Are you scared of being replaced by the Princess Diana Bear? They have a serious answer. They have a serious answer. They have a serious answer. But, you know, we're heading into the summer now. And I don't know that anyone will care about any of this. I don't even care about it. I don't care about any of it. You know, as I was doing the interview, and by the way, I'm not trying to insult either one of them. As I was doing this interview, I don't care about any of this. I don't, I have no, it's just, I don't care anymore. I don't, I don't care anymore. I don't care about any of this. I don't, I have no, I have no, I have no, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's Well the thing is that Netanyahu actually yeah yeah, I bet I think you're right I don't doubt the reporting How long can one care about this once it's quite obvious what this is? Once it's exposed like what it is? much about how and why. It's like if someone rips you off, you got ripped off. You know, like you're in a car with your wife, she's like, you know what I think really happened? Here's what probably happened. You go, you got fucked. I don't want to keep going over this. It's like, I don't even want to, you know what I mean? Like, I bet we're not the only ones to get taken by that. Yeah, whatever. I'm concerned with us. limited bandwidth you have to go over and again it's not to take anything away from them in their book which I'm sure it's fascinating but there's just a limited amount of bandwidth you have like one of the revelations are like you know Trump talks to a lot of people that are very hawkish and pro-Israel it. Hold the phone. Wait, I can't. I don't understand. My brain is melting in my head. Are you telling me? And they're like, and then they're like, you know, Trump, uh, he wants to, he sees himself as a great man of history and did he, you know, he wants to make an impact on the global stage everything. You're like, yeah, I know. Yeah, well I know that. I didn't have to, I don't, and I'm not, again, buy their book, read their book. But like, it's one of those things, and this is again, I'm not, and again, I'm not, this sounds like I'm shitting on it, I'm truly not. But what I got from that interview is, you go, yeah. Yep. What are these revelations? But what are these? revelations. I'm serious. And again, not an attacking way or an accusatory way. I'm super grateful they came on. But what are we learning? What are we learning here? Trump is, you know, he's, he likes power. Yeah. What are we learning here? Trump is, you know, he's, he likes power. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. likes power and the people around him and he's at odds with his base, right? He doesn't really care, you just, you know, he's, uh, he likes power and exercising power and he wants to be remembered in history as like a psychopath, like Mao or Hitler or something, okay. But you could get that from just watching him a little bit. You want, this is the problem now with like, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem now, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's not a problem, and it's read the book I'm sure it's phenomenal but like you know the book already this is the issue that we have with everything they're like the revelations in the book are startling Trump didn't want the Epstein docks out yeah yes the revelations in the book are startling the out. Yeah, we knew that. Read the book. So I mean, I'm sure there are things in the book. They certainly uncover little things like Trump, Trump learned about Kirk's assassination from his son, Barron. There's things they uncover, they take you in the situation room, you know, and the people go. And again I don't mean to be, if you just made up your own book, like how close would you get to their book? Kind of close. Like if you just made up your own book from what you know already, you kind of have their book. If you just invented your book about how it happened, you'd be close to their book. You'd be close to their book. You kind of have their book. If you just invented your book, you'd be close to their book. Do you see what I mean? No one's, is anyone like really going like, how did this happen? Like, yes, I asked that question because I have to, but like, it's obvious how it happened. She's like, you know, Maggie Haberman, again, great reporter, she's like, Trump really liked the pager attack. Of course he did. It's great TV. It's an episode of MacGyver. an impressive display of violence which Trump loves. So like it's almost like yes does anyone like if you went up to someone in a supermarket it goes what do you think Trump thought about the Hezbollah you know the Israel pager attack on against Hezbollah does anyone think Trump would go well it's terrible you know you know innocent people could have been hurt No, he's gonna go, that was great. That was amazed. They bought these pagers from a company. They had no idea it was Israel. Then they all blew up. Yeah, that's what? There's no period of history that has needed less explanation than this period. That's what's difficult. Nobody needs to know anything. Because everyone knows it. it. Are there things people don't know? Sure, but the broad strokes of it are in front of your face. If you don't get it, you'll never get it. If you're confused now, there's no hope for you. There's no helping you. Trump doesn't care about anything that you think he cares about in the sense that like, He understands that it's all a show and basically what he wants to do is he's going to try to whack some leaders and knock over some countries so that in history they can turn around and go, yeah, that Donald Trump, he was the man. That's what he's trying to do. He doesn't care if you get an operation on your foot. He doesn't, it's not his, he's not trying to do that. He's not trying to, you know, he doesn't care. He doesn't care, he doesn't care. about deportations or immigration whatever he presented that he cared about he doesn't care about any of that he doesn't care term two is about let's wax some people I have because by the way when you have all that power and you don't could use it he's sitting around like what is it for he wants to fire a nuke of course he wants to nuke someone there's no way he doesn't want to nuke someone he wants to know what it feels like to order a first strike nuclear attack on someone Why have this capability and not use it? He wants to do it. Because this has been fun for him. He's like done all the things. Term one he was kind of like sandbag by his advisors are like you can't do this. He killed Solomani and then term two he's like yeah be fun to bomb people be fun to start a war. I want to do that and I'm sure he's like it be fun to nuke someone. You know be fun to press a button and vaporize. He's done it's done it all. He's done it's done it all. really except that. You don't look back at Trump's life and go, wow, so many missed opportunities. He's done it. He's been rich. He's been famous. He's been married like five times or whatever, four times, three times, whatever. The guy, you know, he's fucked a bunch of his friends wives and his assistants or whatever. The dude lived in New York, has a building with his name on it, has built buildings all over the world. Mega Star of reality TV is now the president of the United States again. Survived assassination attempts. The only thing he hasn't done is firing nuclear weapon and vaporize killing a large number of people at once. And you know Beebe probably went in there and was like, you know you could do that and history would look kindly on you. And Trump probably thought about it. One thing Trump still wants to do and he probably admits is to close friends or people that he talks to you, I don't know. I think there's a part of him that wants to nuke somebody. There's just a part of him that wants to get the nuclear football out, put in the code. He would love it. He'd love the process of it. He would love, and he would talk about it. He'd do interviews after he goes, they bring in the football, you know the football, the football, the football, the nuclear thing, the nuclear thing, the nuclear thing, the nuclear thing, the thing, the thing, the nuclear thing, the thing, the thing, the thing, the thing, the thing, the thing, the nuclear thing, the thing, the thing, the thing, the thing, the thing, the thing, the thing, the thing, the thing, the thing, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the me wherever I go. We had it in Palm Beach. I spoke to the generals. There was no other way. We took a break. We were at Palm Beach. We were having a dinner and we had a Frank Sinatra impersonator there. He was singing. We told him to take a break. We wanted to treat the moment with the seriousness it deserved. So we stopped the Frank Sinatra impersonator right in the middle of my way, which is one of my favorite songs. He would be saying this. There's one of my favorite songs we stopped them. And he's, and he moment of silence and then we I pressed a button we fired the nuclear weapon and then we said before it hits the news we knew there was a 10 or 15 minute lag before we hit the news he goes at that point we just had the Frank Sinatra impersonator continued singing and he did that's life which was oddly fitting and then I could see footage they were showing me footage of the nuclear weapon detonating and I asked I go how many people get it immediately and then and then and then he would say something like I call him the uglies. How long do the uglies hang around? Like the people that get deformed or like get radiation poisoning? He goes, how long do the uglies hang around? And they explained to me they said, well, most people get it in the beginning, but then there's the uglies that run around. And then I asked should we put them out of their misery with another nuke, and they were like, well, I don't know about that, the second nuke's a PR nightmare, the first nuke we kind of the first nuke we kind of You say there was no other way, it ends the war. So don't think that Donald Trump doesn't wonder about what it feels, because all the people that he respects, or at least puts himself in their category, this list of crazy leaders, they've all killed lots of people at once. So he definitely thinks about what that would think, just from a visceral, like, what does it feel like to kill a bunch of people at once? So he definitely thinks. How does that feel like, power if you think about the ultimate power is to just from your country club press a button and kill a lot of people instantaneously he wonders about that death now probably he won't do it knock on wood thankfully but like he wonders about that and it excites him a little bit that's a type of guy it excites him a little bit maybe I'm not saying he's a monster or something but like he does think a little bit about you know what would it be like to fire a nuclear weapon it hasn't been done and he'd be the one to do it and he also thinks about like generations or now people be like Trump used a nuke he used a nuke and he knows that that would put him in the history books too is the guy that used a nuke because Truman used the atomic bomb but we haven't used a nuke And Trump wonders like what if I'm I guarantee he's like what if I'm the guy To do it. I think part of him thinks like that because that's the way he understands the whole thing because like He's it's a little bit kid in a candy store with him It's a little bit of willy wonka chocolate factory like outside People are like you know projecting on to him they're like he's a of America, he's going to get rid of the immigrant, he's going to do this, he's going to do that, but inside it's really with him like what does this button do? What does this lever do? What if I could do this? How could I, how many people could I kill with this gadget? What contraption can we kill these? How do we deal with them? Do we kill them? Do we, because that's how he understands the world. It's power, who doesn't, and the more power that you back at you and they're in awe of you. Whether they say good or bad things and he realizes that it almost doesn't matter because number one he won't be around but number two he also knows that he's gonna lose control of the narrative no matter what the only thing he'll have is the power that he exercised. Did I do it or not? So I do think that he sits down at night and eats like a overdone steak at Moralago and he sits there and he goes, you know, and he goes, you know in the back of his head he thinks about like what would it be like if I was the first president since Truman to fire a nuclear weapon. So what would it feel like the next morning? Because people will let you know at the end of your life you know you got I did it all I fired a nuke I did it all I fucked Marla Maples was this like third wife you had Tiffany with it was like a hot blonde you know and I I owned a country club and people showed up there every day and worshipped me and told me I was great and I became the president and they tried to kill me and I survived and I became the president again and I was sitting there one day at Moralago for lunch and I went the only thing left to do is to fire a nuclear weapon and kill a lot of people so that in history I'm remembered as a guy who did something. I want to do something. I want to do something. I want to do something. about. He's like, I just want to do something. And I don't want to like, he's not trying to like increase literacy rates in the third world. He knows that he's not like Jimmy Carter, who's like, I'll build houses for homeless people. Trump's like, that's not what I'm going to do. I want to be, he kind of doesn't mind if people like it was like a reign of terror. He doesn't mind that. He's not that