Live: The Great Yogurt Feud

The Sporkful

In this live episode recorded at Little Island, Dan Pashman and Eliza Rothstein explore the culinary rivalry between Greek and Bulgarian yogurt. The hosts trace

Key takeaways

• Bulgarian scientist Stamin Grigorov identified the primary bacteria in yogurt in 1905 at the Pasteur Institute.
• Atanas Valev immigrated to America with two jars of Bulgarian yogurt starter culture to preserve its authentic taste.
• The brand Chobani was founded by a Turkish entrepreneur, despite being marketed as Greek yogurt due to existing consumer perceptions.
• Bulgarian yogurt is characterized by being creamy and light-bodied rather than the thick, strained texture of Greek yogurt.
• Dannon was one of the first global brands to popularize yogurt in the US, initially selling plain varieties before adding fruit.

Main topics

• Greek vs. Bulgarian yogurt rivalry
• History of Lactobacillus bulgaricus discovery
• The immigrant story of Atanas Valev and Trimona Yogurt

Notable quotes

There's no such a thing as Greek yogurt. It's just a made-up word.

Conclusion

The episode provides a fascinating look at how cultural identity and m

Transcript preview

Speaker 7 (0:06) Today Speaker 4 (0:11) we're bringing you a special live episode that we recorded recently at Little Island, a small park on a pier in New York. We did a run of three shows there. It was really fun. So many of you showed up to sit in the grass and watch. We had yogurt samples, live singers, and gorgeous weather with a view of the Manhattan skyline. All this to say, you should come see us when we do live shows. It's a good time. So here's the show, which began with our Bulgarian choir taking the stage. Speaker 7 (1:06) There Speaker 4 (1:25) are a lot of rivalries in food, right? Coke versus Pepsi, Ruffles versus Lay's. But there are other rivalries in food that no one really knows about because only one side cares. Like, you think Chicago deep dish pizza is laying awake at night worrying about St. Louis style? Probably not. As it turns out, there's a one-sided rivalry like this in the world of yogurt. Let me ask you, if I were to say what country has its yogurt, top to bottom shelf, the whole aisle, where is all the yogurt coming from that everyone wants to eat these days? That's right, Greece. Greek yogurt, Chobani, Faye, and a million others. Thick, creamy Greek yogurt seems to be all anyone wants to talk about, right? Lurking in the shadows, shaking its fist at this leviathan of lactose is another country. Can anyone guess what country that is? It is Bulgaria. That's right. Now listen to me. Bulgarians are obsessed with yogurt. They have a museum of yogurt. And they are pissed that their neighbors in Greece are getting all the attention. Listen to this guy. Speaker 5 (2:39) Don't get me started on this one. Because... I have to say this. There's no such a thing as Greek yogurt. It's just a made-up word. So you're saying there's nothing distinctly Greek about Greek yogurt? There's nothing distinct. And nobody can prove me wrong in this. Because it's so obvious. Speaker 4 (3:02) This is The Sporkful. It's not for foodies. It's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. And I'm jumping in here with the official intro because we didn't do the official intro at Little Island. It was a different kind of performance. So let's get right back to Little Island. Welcome to a live taping of The Sporkful podcast. Thank you. And we're thrilled to have you here. I want to welcome my friends at Yasna Voices, our Bulgarian choir. Speaker 4 (3:30) Some shows have a Greek chorus. We have a Bulgarian chorus. That's right. That's right. I think it's better. Yeah. And I also want to bring on my good friend Eliza Rothstein, audio producer and reporter extraordinaire. Welcome, Eliza. Hey, Dan. Great to see you. Now, you're the one who told me about Bulgarian yogurt. Speaker 6 (3:48) I did. I'm obsessed with Bulgarian yogurt. I've been eating it every day for, I think, the last 10 years. That's commitment. Speaker 4 (3:56) Thank Speaker 6 (3:56) you. Speaker 4 (3:56) So how did you hear about it? Speaker 6 (3:58) I was put onto it by a friend. I was living in Portland, Oregon at the time. And when I went looking for it, I could find only one brand in one grocery store way in the bottom corner of the yogurt aisle. And over the years, I've come to really love it. And so I've wondered, if this stuff is so good, why is it so hard to find? Why is it that all we see is Greek? Speaker 4 (4:22) How would you describe the taste? Speaker 6 (4:25) Sure. So the taste is really unique. It's super sour, super tangy, and very tart. But there's something textural as well that I really love. It's really light-bodied. Bulgarian yogurt has this refreshing quality that I really enjoy. Speaker 4 (4:41) And am I right? You're so into it, you went to Bulgaria, like on a yogurt research mission. Speaker 6 (4:48) Yes, yes. I took a yogurt pilgrimage to Bulgaria. This was last year. I was actually in vacation in Greece. Sorry. But I traveled north. I took a detour to Bulgaria. Speaker 7 (5:37) Thank you. Speaker 6 (5:57) Now, I'm sure everybody here could point to Bulgaria on a map of Europe. But Speaker 4 (6:03) just in case, we got a map of Europe here. So this is Europe. Starting in the west over here, we have England, we have France, we have Italy. As you move east, there's Germany. We get over to Ukraine. This big green one here is Russia. And right down here, that is Bulgaria. Speaker 6 (6:22) Bulgaria is bordered by two yogurt powerhouses to the south. So there's Greece and Turkey. And then to the north, a bit to the east, it's bordered by a number of former communist countries. Bulgaria itself was under communist rule for about 50 years, from World War II all the way to 1990. Speaker 4 (6:44) Yeah, now, I don't know about you, Eliza, but I have to, if I'm being honest, I have like a stereotype in my mind of what former communist countries look like, and it's generally gray and concrete. Speaker 6 (6:53) Yes, I had a similar assumption, but I was wrong. Bulgaria is vibrant and colorful. I was there in the fall. I got to drive through beautiful mountain ranges and the leaves were turning orange and red and yellow. Bulgaria has an amazing coastline along the Black Sea, so you got these sandy beaches, turquoise waters. And the capital city, Sofia, is so colorful, it has an actual yellow brick road. Speaker 7 (7:23) So goodbye, Yellow Brick Road, where the dogs of society howl. I'm going back to my place. Speaker 6 (7:39) One thing, I confirmed. Speaker 6 (7:43) One thing I confirmed when I went to Bulgaria, yogurt is huge. It's everywhere. Their primary breakfast pastry is called banica. And banica is a phyllo-type dough filled with cheese and Bulgarian yogurt. And the custom is to drink alongside your banica a beverage called... Ayran. Oh, Speaker 4 (8:06) yeah, I love Ayran. Quick aside. So it's like a salty yogurt drink. First time I had it was in Berlin alongside a kebab. And like people want to pair food and wine. This was the best food and drink pairing I ever had was the meat kebab and the salty Ayran beverage. But that aside, I love that in Bulgaria, they're having for breakfast a yogurt filled pastry with a yogurt drink chaser. Speaker 6 (8:30) Right, right. And it's not even 9 a.m. yet. That's two yogurts. Speaker 4 (8:33) Right, right. Speaker 6 (8:33) The first night I was in Bulgaria, I stumbled into a restaurant. It had a lot of prepared food laid out in deli-style display cases, so I was able to try a ton. And I met the owner. His name was Konstantin. He's 27. He's from Sofia. And like many Bulgarians, he has a bone to pick. Speaker 2 (8:55) All the people in the world think that... Yogurt is Greek, but originally it's from Bulgaria. But we have bad advertisement, so all the people think that yogurt is Greek. But no, Bulgarian, and that's how you can make angry Bulgarian. Speaker 4 (9:10) That's right, Eliza. That's how you can make angry Bulgarian. It's true. You better watch it. Speaker 6 (9:15) It's true. Konstantin's family runs this restaurant. They make all the dishes. They're open for lunch and dinner. And I found out that 50 % of these dishes have Bulgarian yogurt in them. Speaker 2 (9:26) Oh, I have the tzatziki. Our variant is called snezhanka, and we make it with Bulgarian yogurt. I have katak. Katak is Bulgarian yogurt, Bulgarian cheese, and peppers. This is classic Bulgarian cake with yogurt. It's 50 % yogurt. Speaker 6 (9:46) So there's yogurt in pretty much every meal. Speaker 2 (9:49) Every morning, every day, nonstop I eat Bulgarian yogurt. Yeah, so I Speaker 4 (9:55) think we've proven that Bulgarians are serious about yogurt, right? You guys get it. But it goes deeper than that because some Bulgarians say that they invented yogurt. Now, that's probably not true. Sorry, Bulgaria. But I can tell you where this claim... I'm sorry, you can't have that one. But I can tell you where this claim comes from. It's all connected to the bacteria that turns milk into yogurt. Speaker 6 (10:18) So in order to make yogurt, any yogurt in the world, you need two types of bacteria, Streptococcus thermophilus and Lactobacillus bulgaricus. That's right. These bacteria work together to help milk. ferment. They essentially eat the sugars in milk and then they produce lactic acid. Speaker 4 (10:40) Yeah, and this lactic acid does a couple of crucial things. All right, first it gives yogurt its trademark sour taste and it causes the proteins in the milk to clump together and give yogurt its gelatinous texture. And Speaker 6 (10:52) if you have these two bacterial strains, it's pretty easy to make yogurt. You add them to some warm milk. You let that mixture sit and ferment overnight, maybe up to 24 hours. And then bada-bing, bada-boom, you've got yogurt. Speaker 4 (11:06) And these two bacteria are in all yogurt. Greek, Icelandic, French, Lebanese, you name it. Different styles of yogurt may use different ratios of these two bacteria to adjust flavor and