833: Salsa, Sauces & Sides with Rick Martínez and Sunny Lee

The Splendid Table: Conversations & Recipes For Curious Cooks & Eaters

This episode of The Splendid Table explores how peak-season produce can be transformed into bold, flavorful salsas and side dishes. Host Francis

Key takeaways

• Salsa is more than a dip—it can be a standalone dish with endless variations and textures.
• Caramelized onions and chilis can create a rich, spreadable salsa that rivals traditional sauces.

Main topics

• Salsa as a versatile food group
• Seasonal cooking with peak produce

Notable quotes

"Salsa is its own food group." – Rick Martínez

Conclusion

This episode celebrates culinary creativity and seasonal abundance by s

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Support for this show comes from Feeding America. Great things are not built alone. They require the right pieces coming together for a purpose. And right now, as families face rising food costs, it's important to come together and end hunger, hand in hand. Farmers, advocates, donors, volunteers. When we connect our actions, we aren't just separating parts. We are a movement building a system that feeds millions. This Hunger Action Month assembly is required. You can give now, volunteer, or speak up at feedingamerica.org slash hungeractionmonth. Speaker 1 (0:38) I'm Will Anderson, and this week on the very first episode of my new music history podcast, The Monday Music Club, we're talking about one of the pioneers of rock and roll, Sister Rosetta Tharpe. She is the coolest. She recorded the very first rock and roll song, inspired everybody from Elvis to the Beatles, and absolutely shredded on electric guitar. She also got married in a baseball stadium in front of a giant crowd way before Taylor and Travis did. Her story is incredible. So if you're a music geek like me, or even just a casual music fan, check out this week's episode. Speaker 1 (1:16) This is The Splendid Table from APM. When you go to the farmer's market this time of year, when summer and fall blend together, it's just the best. I just love it so much. And maybe you're thinking of tomato sandwiches, or you're looking at the hearty greens, and you're thinking of a comforting braise. But maybe you're basking in all this glory and getting a little overwhelmed. Well, later in the show, we'll talk with Chef Sunny Lee of the instantly beloved new restaurant Sun's in New York City. Speaker 1 (2:05) a place specializing in banchan, the many delicious produce-forward side dishes that are key parts of a Korean meal. She'll answer the question of, what do I do with all of this? And here's another question you should be asking. How can I make all this produce melt my face off? Well, the answer to that is make salsa. Salsa is always great, but it's never better than when you have geek produce. It's not just a dip or even a sauce. It's its own food group, according to our good friend Rick Martinez. Rick's new book is called Salsa Daddy, and you're about to find out why. Speaker 1 (2:41) Hey, Rick, it's great to see you. So good to see you, too. Happy end of summer. I know. I'm not ready, but we can pretend like we're ready. Well, luckily where I am, summer really never ends. Stop. Don't even start. Don't even start. Oh, we have 10 months of summer. It's fine. Exactly. Okay, well, for those of us who are not so blessed to live in the Pacific coast of Mexico, you know, I actually, something. I remember distinctly thinking, when you first actually started talking to me about wanting to write a book about salsa, it was such a simple thought, but it really crystallized in my mind in a particular way. When you said, you know, salsa literally just means sauce. And, you know, there are salsas of all kinds. But when you wrote that, there was a particular salsa that changed your life. And it made you realize that the possibilities with salsa were... Speaker 1 (3:39) Kind of infinite. So I love your story of that revelation so much. And I actually love the salsa that gave you that revelation so much. Why don't you tell us about that recipe? Sure. So, you know, like, I mean, I obviously grew up with salsa. My parents had salsas that they made. There was always salsa in the house. There were always salsas at family gatherings. So, you know, I was very much. used to the idea of table salsas existing. And I wasn't really aware at that time of the idea of, you know, salsa as sauce. Like we obviously also had guisos and moles and pipianes, but I didn't, I never thought of those as salsas. And, um, I have a friend in Mexico city who has this amazing taqueria and he had made me this, uh, uh, Speaker 1 (4:30) torta that was really just like smothered in this incredible chicharron tomato chili de arbol salsa. And as if that wasn't enough, he then brought out what was essentially this tower of salsas with these beautiful little ceramic bowls, about probably 12 of them. And they were all filled with different salsas. And so, of course, like, you know, I was like, I'm just going to taste all of them because I want to make sure that I get the perfect salsa for this torta. And there was one that basically it wasn't really a liquid. It was kind of, you know, just holding its own form. And I was like, what is this? And he basically told me it's caramelized onions and serranos. And I was like, wait, what? Like, he's like, yeah. And I tasted it. Speaker 1 (5:22) And imagine the most sublime French onion soup, but with like a really sharp kick of a spicy caramelized serrano. So you got all the sweetness and caramelization of the onions, but then like this, you know, very Mexican note of, you know, a deeply charred serrano. And it was so incredible. And it just sort of blew my mind. And like, you know, so the, the, the onions were, were just chopped. So it wasn't, you know, it wasn't pureed. It wasn't pourable. It was, you know, basically like a little spread. And I was just like, had you had this before? Did you like how, what were, what is the Genesis of this? And he's like, no, I just like caramelized onions. And so I'm like, okay, well that's, yeah, I get it. I mean, so do I. And, and why not? Like I put that out as a salsa. And I was just like, you know. Speaker 1 (6:25) It's so funny because, you know, I had become so accustomed in the United States to people saying, oh, that's not the way that my family did something, right? You publish a recipe for tamales or for a pozole or a guiso. And, you know, there's always someone that's commenting, that's not the way that you do it. That's not the way they do it in this state or this city or in my family or in this. you know, state in the U S and, and the freedom of this gentleman, you know, uh, Takiaro in Mexico city to just say, you know what? I love this. I'm going to make it, I'm going to put this out for my customers. Um, and it just, it really kind of floored me. And. Speaker 1 (7:14) I wanted to capture that not only for myself, but, you know, for my fans and my followers who, you know, cook my recipes. I wanted them to have that same, you know, feeling of freedom to experiment and cook what they like and then use that as a salsa as well. Yeah. So now that it's, depending on sort of where you are, but it's late summer, early fall. You know, this is the best time of year at the farmer's market for me anyway. It's like when you're getting all the amazing produce of summer, you're starting to get a little bit of the fall stuff coming in. And, you know, I walk around, I'm thinking not just what can I do with this produce? What salads can I make? What like roasted vegetables can I make? You know, it's totally changed my brain. I'm thinking all the sauces I can make too. So I walked past my peach orchard farmer the other day stand and it reminded me of your salsa Tejana. Speaker 1 (8:10) the Texas salsa, the Texan salsa in your book. Tell us about that one. So this one was really an ode to my father. My father, when I was growing up, he had a pecan orchard and a lot of peach trees. And, you know, so every summer we picked the peaches and my mom used to make these amazing peach pies and peach cobblers. And then later in the fall, like right around Thanksgiving, my dad and I would walk the pecan orchard and pick and taste all of the different varieties of pecans that he grew. And, you know, and I remember thinking, you know, it was, it was incredible because, you know, like, I mean, as, as a younger kid, I just thought of, you know, right. Nuts. It's just nuts. You buy a bag of nuts at the store and that's that. But when he started growing them, he actually grafted different varieties onto native Texas stock of the trees. And then. Speaker 1 (9:08) basically grew like hybrids. And, you know, some of them were like really meaty. Some of them were a little bit more oily. Some of them had really thin shells. And each one had a very distinct flavor. I mean, they still tasted like pecans, but some were a little sweeter. Some were a little bit more nutty and more savory. So I wanted, you know, basically to pay homage to that of my father. I remember thinking, I have no idea if this is going to work or not. And it's either going to be really amazing or really horrible. Because one thing that I have learned while I was writing this book is that, you know, particularly when you make salsa with fruits or anything on the sweeter side, you have to be really aware of balance because you have, you know, the sweetness. And also because in your mind, right, like for me, Speaker 1 (10:05) Pecans and peaches, like I equate with peach cobbler and pecan pie with desserts, right? Your brain automatically wants to go in that direction with whatever you're used to eating. So if you're used to eating strawberry shortcake and you want to make a strawberry pico de gallo, you have to make sure that you pull it into the salsa direction. So that means using onion and garlic and really tempering the sweetness with those sharper flavors. And so I used a lot of lime juice, some orange juice, some charred abaneros. I grilled the peaches. I toasted the pecans and then ground it up. And it was really, really amazing. The toasted nuts gave this really beautiful counterpoint to the peaches. And then the fruitiness of the abanero and the citrus really played into the fruitiness of the peaches. Speaker 1 (11:01) But because, you know, it obviously had like charred red onion and some charred garlic as well, it definitely played in the salsa space. Yeah, it's more savory. Yeah. Yeah. And it was, I mean, I think at that moment, the fact that it was to me such a successful salsa, it was another moment for me where I was like, I can basically turn anything into a salsa, I've decided. And also that strawberry pico de gallo I mentioned, that is not in the book, but I have done that this summer. The strawberries were so incredible in Mexico this summer. And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to do it. Why not? It was really, really delicious. Highly recommend. If you have good strawberries, make a pico de gallo. Just replace the strawberries with a tomato. Speaker 1 (11:46) And that's the Rick Martinez salsa daddy origin story. That's how you became the salsa daddy. I can do this with anything. Well, actually, funny you mentioned pico de gallo, because I think for a lot of people who, you know, didn't grow up with a lot of Mexican culture or cuisine, you know, that's their first impression of what salsa is. And obviously, tomatoes are such an important part of that. At this moment in the market, you know, late summer, to me, living in New York, you know, Plenty of people get amazing tomatoes far earlier, but like our tomatoes really don't get really good, honestly, until September. September, yeah. So they're amazing now. And rather than make a pico de gallo, we just talked about your father, your mother's salsa de mesa, table salsa, is so simple and so classic. And it's mostly tomato, right? Yeah. And she would make this. Speaker 1 (12:39) You know, this was normally a summer version. I mean, she had like the same basic recipe or formula for her salsa and then would just change it depending on the season. So my parents had a big garden. So they grew jalapenos, they grew onion, garlic, tomatoes. And so when everything was fresh, she would just go pick it. And there was a little salsa pot. I mean, it wasn't, I mean, it was just a little. saucepan. But that was typically what she made her salsas in. And so I knew when that little pot was on the stove, that it was time to refresh the salsa in the house. And I remember being able to hear when the tomatoes and the jalapenos and the onion were boiling in the water, the lid would kind of like bounce up and down and make this little clicking sound. Speaker 1 (13:36) But yeah, like it was, it was just so simple, you know, and I don't think, I mean, she, I know she didn't have that recipe written down. It was just like, you know, she picked a couple of tomatoes and used a piece of onion and, and threw in a bunch of jalapenos and covered it in water and then just, you know, boiled it until it was soft. Speaker 1 (13:53) And then she had a mocajete and she just like smashed it. And she strained it out of the water first and then just smashed all the