#337 Cardinal Burke - The Old Testament

The Shawn Ryan Show

Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke discusses the spiritual significance of the Old Testament with Shawn Ryan, reflecting on personal experiences wit

Key takeaways

• Spiritual warfare is real and often manifests through fear, anxiety, and physical disturbances like malfunctioning electronics or allergic reactions.
• The Old Testament prepares humanity for Christ by revealing God's plan of salvation and His enduring love throughout history.

Main topics

• The Old Testament as preparation for Christ
• Spiritual warfare and demonic manifestations

Notable quotes

The devil absolutely hates anyone who brings the truth to others. And of course, the Bible is all truth.

When Our Lady appeared at Fatima, she showed them hell so they could understand what was at stake—eternal separation from God.

Conclusion

Cardinal Burke concludes that the Old Testament points unerringly to Christ and calls

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:05) Cardinal Burke. Yes. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Sean. I'm glad to be with you. Thank you for coming. This Speaker 1 (0:13) is Speaker 2 (0:14) extremely surreal for me. So we took a long shot and I didn't think there was a chance we would get you here. And here you are sitting here. Speaker 2 (0:28) It's an honor. It's an honor to do this. So thank you for making the trip. Speaker 1 (0:32) Not at all. I respect very much what you're doing and you're reaching out to a great number of people and with important messages for them. And so I am happy to be some little part of it. Speaker 2 (0:50) Well, let me start you out with an introduction. Speaker 2 (0:56) Raymond Leo Cardinal Burke. You're an American Cardinal widely respected for your expertise in canon law and church governance. You previously served as Archbishop of St. Louis and as a Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, the church's highest judicial court. Pope Benedict XVI elevated you to the College of Cardinals in 2010. You are known internationally. for your defense of traditional Catholic doctrine, the sacred, liturgy, marriage, family, and the sacraments. You are also the founder of the Shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe in La Crosse, Wisconsin, which you established as a place of pilgrimage, prayer, and spiritual renewal. Thank you. Speaker 2 (1:45) And Cardinal, I was hoping you could lead us in prayer before we get started here. In Speaker 1 (1:50) the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, amen. Almighty God, we ask you to guide us in our conversation, to remove from our minds all distractions, and from our hearts any wrong affections, that we might understand more perfectly your will for us, and have the courage to... to carry out whatever it is you ask of us. We ask all this in the name of your only begotten Son, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, who is with you in the Holy Spirit, one God forever and ever. Amen. Amen. we ask especially the intercession of our lady of guadalupe on our conversation today and also saint lawrence whose feast the deacon and martyr whose feast we celebrate today in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit amen so like i said i've been really Speaker 2 (2:48) nervous about this and uh i'm gonna be honest it's been uh i'm gonna be a little vague here but i did a Speaker 2 (3:02) psychedelic experience about a month ago, a little over a month ago. I've done these a couple of times and the first one I found to be very healing. It actually took me off alcohol. I've been four and a half years now off alcohol. And then I went to do it again and I believe I was shown hell and there was nothing there. There was no... sense of God or Christ or anything good. It was vacant and all I could feel in my body was extreme fear and extreme anxiety. And this went on for an hour and a half. And before actually I did one two days before that and I met demonic entities and we'll kind of keep it at that. Speaker 2 (4:09) I don't know exactly what that all meant, but I did get a clear message from God a few days after I returned home. Things have been very odd around the house, around my family. Supernatural things have been happening. I've been through four exorcisms with two different priests. It's not going away. And I feel this strong urge to... Speaker 2 (4:57) use my platform, my channel, my audience, not my audience, but deliver my audience a understanding of the Bible and everything that's in it. I've had picture frames fly off the wall. I've had manifestations happen inside of my body. I've had all kinds of weird stuff happen. And last night, Speaker 2 (5:35) It all kind of resurfaced. It had been about a week since anything had happened, and it all kind of resurfaced. And around 1245, every smoke alarm and the smoke detector in the house went off. Numerous times, all night long, I felt these manifestations come back into my stomach and into my body. And I started having the same nightmare. over and over again last night about it was basically nightmares uh they were extremely vivid trying to rip my family apart me and my wife and my children and i think that this is happening because something doesn't want me to do what we're about to do today i Speaker 1 (6:25) would think so too Speaker 1 (6:29) The devil absolutely hates anyone who brings the truth to others. And of course, the Bible is all truth. Speaker 1 (6:41) finally fully in our Lord Jesus Christ, but the Word of God leads us to Him, and that's what the devil can't stand. Our Lord Himself told us, He said, the devil is a murderer from the beginning, so he does all kinds of things to try to destroy people, attack the family, principally is one of his principal attacks, but attack individuals. Speaker 1 (7:11) Then our Lord went on to say, He said, He's a murderer from the beginning, a liar, and the father of lies. And so the more you come to understand the truth, the more you're attracted to the truth, the more you seek the truth in our Lord Jesus Christ, He's going to give you trouble. Speaker 1 (7:31) He likes especially, I find, to get into electronics and those kind of things, to frustrate us, to divert us, discourage us. I often say I think his principal temptation is discouragement. He can convince you that what you're trying to do is not possible or it's just going to bring you harm, and so you abandon it. Then he's achieved his purpose. And so it's very important for you to have courage, which I know you have, and not let him work this kind of rightly called devilment, in other words, his little tricks and so forth to lead us astray. Speaker 2 (8:20) I used to look for signs that were good, that made me feel good. I had... Speaker 2 (8:27) Without going into too much detail, I used to see the number 444 all the time. And I would take that as, I'm on the right path. I'm doing something good. Supposedly that number means your guardian angels are looking out for you. Sometimes I think that maybe those signs have led me astray, or maybe were deceptive. Speaker 2 (8:58) But these ones that I'm getting now is as horrific as that experience was and as much as I want all of this to stop, I'm also thankful for it because it has immensely strengthened my faith in Christ and it absolutely lets me know that I'm on the right track here. Speaker 1 (9:23) Yes. You know, it's interesting what you just recounted to me about the vision of hell. When Our Lady appeared to the three children in Fatima in 1917, the world was in a terrible state, the First World War and the rise of communism. And she appeared to these little children to call for reparation for sins, to devotion to her Immaculate Heart and through her Immaculate Heart to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. and she, and then of course the Holy Eucharist, but she gave the children a vision of hell and in order for them to understand fully what is the alternative. In other words, we either convert our lives to Christ, we either turn to God, purify our lives of everything that's not of God, or... we go in that direction. And of course, as you said, it's empty. There's nothing good there. There's nothing that's lasting, that's beautiful, nothing true. And so it's a terrible thing to have such a vision. But it can be a real grace, too, because we never forget that. And when we're tempted to veer from the way of Christ, then we... Remember that, and we want to get back on the right path. Speaker 2 (10:54) I've had things speak to me through white noise machines. I've had two pretty severe allergic reactions right after communion. I know you've been spiritually attacked probably much, much, much more than I ever have been or will be. How did it stop? Speaker 1 (11:27) The only answer there is to persevere. St. Paul says to stay the course, fight the good fight, stay the course, keep the faith. And sometimes these, well, it never really ends until our Lord finally takes us home to himself. Throughout our life, he told us, he said, If you will follow me, take up your cross daily. And that's what we have to do. And that means also fighting our own inclination to evil, fighting the evil influences that are around us that want to draw us away from life, which is in our Lord Jesus Christ. And so I say this, that as long as we're... striving with all our heart to love Him and serve Him, then we remain at peace even amongst the so many lies that can be told about us, harm done to us by others and so forth. But we remain serene because we know that we're with our Lord and that that's all that ultimately really matters. We can suffer. Speaker 1 (12:52) many hardships both in our bodies and mentally and spiritually. But if we can offer it all with Christ, even can we imagine someone, God the Son in our human flesh, what his passion meant for him or what all the lies that were said during his public ministry. Sometimes we hear our Lord say some pretty hard words, like those words where he told those who were denying who he was. Speaker 1 (13:33) invoking their own Jewish faith, but not understanding that he was the fulfillment of their faith. I mean, he said to them, you know, you follow Satan. You're not following the God of Isaac, Abraham, and Jacob. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, you're following Satan. And so I think we can't ever... Speaker 1 (14:02) hope that we won't have to suffer, that we won't have to endure hardships and even, and you've had some unusual experiences which no doubt are connected by the richness of the life that you've led, even in its really difficult aspects. Speaker 1 (14:28) those attacks that will continue to come, but we gain serenity. And the Eucharist, of course, is the principal source of that serenity. It is Christ himself who comes to nourish his life in us. And also a great help is the Sacrament of Penance Confession. where we meet our Lord through his minister, but the encounter is with our Lord himself. For instance, now they want to try to force priests to reveal what's said in confession. Rightly, priests could never do that because the conversation of the penitent is with God. The priest is just an instrument, and the priest has never any license or permission to ever reveal anything. that is said to God through him. But that sacrament, it's also called the sacrament of reconciliation, the sacrament of peace. But it is a powerful help to us to know that we can open our lives to God in a very concrete way, confessing our sins, and then knowing that in his mercy he forgives us and gives us grace to begin again. Speaker 1 (15:49) I suppose one way to say it is every day is a new beginning for us. We set forth again on the way. This life is a pilgrimage. That's why pilgrimage to holy places has always been a major devotion, because it reveals to us that this life is not our... our real home. Our real home is with God in heaven. This is for us to be on the way to Him, our pilgrimage of life. And so we set out every day anew and try to stay on the path. And pilgrimages are not easy, and neither is life. But our Lord is with us. He's promised us that. He doesn't lie. He said he would be with us in the church until the last day, and we stick with him, and then we are at peace. Speaker 2 (16:47) With summer travel, even learning a few real phrases can completely change the experience. You're not just pointing at a menu or hoping someone speaks English. You can order food, ask for directions, and actually connect with people a little more when you're there. That's why I like Babbel. Me and the team have been using it for travel because it's built for real-life conversations, not just memorizing random vocabulary or staring at grammar charts. The lessons are quick, practical, and built by more than 200 language experts. So you're learning phrases you'll actually use. And even just 10 minutes a day with Babbel can help you start having real conversations in as little as three weeks. They've got interactive dialogue, personalized reviews, and even podcasts. So you can work it into your day, whether you're traveling, driving, or just trying to get a few minutes in before bed. Babbel's award-winning app has sold over 25 million subscriptions, and it's backed by a 14-day money-back guarantee. If you've got summer travel coming up, now's the time to start so you can actually use what you learn on the trip. Right now, Babbel is offering listeners up to 60 % off. Go to babbel.com slash SRS. That's babbel, B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash SRS for up to 60 % off. Rules and restrictions may apply. This is happening. I just found out this is happening to somebody else on my team this morning. I know it's happened to you from the very top of the Catholic Church. Why does he allow this to happen? Speaker 1 (18:28) This is the question that everyone asks, and I think we have to look to our Lord Himself. Why did the Father permit that evil people should unjustly condemn Him and then put Him through the cruelest passion and death that was imaginable at that time? Why did God the Father permit it? It was for... for the purification of sin and for the... Speaker 1 (19:02) the offering of life completely to God. Nothing that is not of God should be any part of us. And so we accept these sufferings, unite them with those of Christ. There's a purification that takes place in us, and all of us need that. And at the same time, our hearts expand to be more Christ-like, to let His love enter more fully into our lives so we can bring His love to the world, to others, to our best. We live in a culture of society which is so terribly misguided. People are doing horrible things to themselves and so forth. Some people give up on it. No. We have to try. You mentioned the word family before, and that is essential. We have to, in our families, in our homes, make Christ the king, have Christ rule in our lives and in our families, and that will transform those around us. It transforms society itself. The other thing is... We have no right to see the direct results of our giving ourselves more fully to Christ. But we know that if we do, it will bear its fruit. And maybe in a time when we'll already have gone to the Lord, it will have died. But that's what grace is. It continues its work, and we know that we will have done then what our Lord asked us to do. I mean, when he was hanging on the cross, he died on the cross. A soldier pierced his heart with a spear. they thought that they finally put an end to this troublemaker, to this insurgent or whatever they wanted to call him. But in fact, and that's a great symbolism of the piercing of his heart, this blood and water that flowed out were signs of the life of grace. By that death, he brought the life of grace of the Holy Spirit. Speaker 1 (21:27) unceasingly and immeasurably into the world. And who is better known today, who is more important today, who is better known, who is more loved than our Lord Jesus Christ? Our Lord Jesus Christ, they thought, by that ignominious death that they had destroyed. And that's one of our principal objects of devotion is the crucifix. And people would say, how could that be the symbol of your religion, our Lord with all of his wounds and dying or dead on the cross? And it's because that is the way. The cross is our only hope. That is our way to really become of god and and to live in his his company and his communion thank you well Speaker 1 (22:29) But you shouldn't be surprised either that others on your staff, especially to the degree that they're united with you in this spiritual combat, which it really is, it's a warfare. And it's not by accident that in the scriptures oftentimes our Christian life, our life in God, the metaphors are either of athletic... athletic challenges or of war against the good against evil. And so it shouldn't surprise you that others will be. And that's important for us, too, to encourage one another so that people don't get destroyed by that or go off and say, well, I don't want anything more to do with that. Speaker 2 (23:17) I've never asked my audience to do anything for me personally, but I'm going to ask them today to please pray for me, my family, my team, and for you. Speaker 1 (23:30) Well, thank you very much, and I can assure you, as one, I have been and will continue to pray for you and for your family and for this work that you are doing. Speaker 2 (23:42) Thank you. Thank you. Speaker 2 (23:46) I was hoping you could pray over us after this. Speaker 1 (23:49) Yes. Speaker 2 (23:50) Thank you. So let's move into the Bible. Yes. The first episode of this new journey, an overview of the Old Testament. Speaker 1 (24:04) What is the Bible? The Bible is the word of God given to us in human language. That's why the Bible is treated with the greatest respect. St. Francis of Assisi said if he found even a scrap of paper that had a verse of the Bible from it, if we find such a piece of paper, we should treat it with the greatest respect. And why? Because God inspires human authors. to write what He wants us to know. And our Lord Himself quoted the scriptures from the Old Testament, and of course the Gospel writers were inspired to write His teaching, the story of His saving work, and then of the Church in those days after His ascension as the Church was in its first days of life. So the Bible is the Word of God. given to us through human authors. And the books of the Bible, we have 45 books in the Old Testament and 27 in the New Testament. The Old Testament, sometimes they say there are 44. Some people put two books together, but it's not really important. So we have 72 books, all inspired by God. that over the centuries the Church has recognized as truly the Word of God and therefore should be treated as most sacred. The Bible came to birth in the Church, first in the Old Testament through the covenants that God formed, first with Adam and Eve when He expelled them from the Garden of Eden after their sin. He promised to send a Savior, Speaker 1 (25:52) the son of a woman who would crush the head of Satan. Of course, that is our Lord Jesus Christ and our Blessed Mother. And then that covenant was renewed with Noah after the flood. There was a covenant renewed with King David and, of course, found its fulfillment in the incarnation in God the Son taking human flesh and Virgin Mary. God the Son is called the Word in the Old Testament. It's understood in the Trinity that God the Son is the wisdom of God, the Word of God. He reflects the mystery of God to us. And this is seen then in the most believable way in that in the mystery of the redemptive incarnation, that God the Son took our human nature, united it to his divine nature, to be the fullness of all that God was trying to reveal to us in the scriptures. And so it's important to understand the inspiration of the word of God and that nothing in the Bible can lead us astray, that every word that's in the Bible, even the most... minute details and in some way can lead us closer to God and that the Scriptures are those that the Church has recognized over the centuries that are handed down to us. Before we began the show, I was happy to give you a the latest English translation of the edition of the Bible produced by the St. Paul Center and Ignatius Press. St. Paul Center is in Steubenville, Ohio. Professor Scott Hahn, who is a great student of the scriptures, together with others, put this translation together. And it's wonderful because it has these notes. that help us to understand words or events that might be confusing to us otherwise. But we should every day devote some time, if God gave us His Word, and of course in its fullness, in our Lord Jesus Christ, when we ought to read His Word and to... make it part of ourselves. And of course, all the books of the Bible are important, but the most important are the Gospels, because they tell us the story of the Word becoming flesh, of the revelation of God reaching its fullness in the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ into our midst. And so we give a special attention to the Gospels and, of course, at every offering of the Holy Mass. a passage of the Gospel is proclaimed. First, a reading either from the Old Testament or from the New Testament, but then always the Gospel. And then what actually happens in the Mass is that, so we have this passage from the Old Testament, find its fulfillment in the Gospel, or if it's from the New Testament, St. Paul drawing us more deeply into the mystery. And then, We have the Mass in which Christ descends from his place at the right hand of the Father to the altars of our churches and chapels and makes new sacramentally his sacrifice