Stephen Graham on Acting, Adolescence & Al Pacino

The Romesh Ranganathan Show

Romesh Ranganathan hosts acclaimed actor Stephen Graham for a deep dive into his career and personal influences. The conversation traverses

Key takeaways

• Stephen Graham uses music, such as Plan B tracks, to establish the necessary energy for characters like Al Capone in 'Boardwalk Empire'.
• The filming of 'Boiling Point' required extreme presence and meticulous planning due to its one-shot nature.

Main topics

• Acting methods and character research
• Hip-hop culture and breakdancing

Notable quotes

It's all about being present in that moment.

Conclusion

An insightful look at how personal history and cultural passions infor

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:00) It must be amazing to just be a straight up ledge. Like you are, you're undeniable. I'm deniable. So like what I was, the difference between you and me is, listen, I'm not saying I'm untalented, but there's an argument about me. You know, like you would accept counter arguments. I'm deniable. You are. Undeniable. Nobody has got anything bad to say about you. It's amazing. Speaker 3 (0:24) That's slightly, yeah, I mean, I don't know what to say about that. Thank you very much for your very kind words. Speaker 4 (0:29) No problem. I think Speaker 3 (0:30) you're a legend as well, do you know what I mean? Speaker 4 (0:32) Thanks, man, but deeply flawed. Aren't we all as human beings? Well, if you look at my online mentions, it's very Marmite, mate. There's as many people hate me as like me, I'd say. Really? Yeah, I reckon. Yeah, and some of them in my house. Speaker 3 (0:51) I'm Stephen Graham and I'm going to be on a Romesh show. Shut Speaker 2 (1:05) up, Romesh. Speaker 4 (1:10) This episode is brought to you by Counselling Directory. I've been very open about my mental health struggles over the years. I've tried everything from meditation to hypnotherapy. I like to keep an open mind. But something that's really helped me is therapy. I think it can be great if you struggle with anxiety, if you're going through something like a breakup or a loss. It can also be really good if you just need someone to talk to that isn't your partner or your dog. Sometimes it can, though, feel like even finding a therapist is an uphill struggle. Where do I look? Are they legit? How do I know who's going to be right for me? So that's why I think Counselling Directory is so great. It helps you find a therapist that's right for you, whether you want to see someone face-to-face or online. They have over 29,000 therapists and counsellors across the UK. So even if you're picky, you should be able to find someone. And all of the therapists on the directory are verified. You can take the time to read their personal profiles, learn a bit about them and how they work, and then contact the ones that you like in your own time. And that, I think, makes the whole thing a little bit less scary. If you've been thinking about therapy, visit Counselling Directory and find a therapist that's right for you. Speaker 4 (2:19) My guest today is a BAFTA, Emmy and Golden Globe winning actor who's widely considered to be one of the most talented and versatile actors of our generation. He's also a writer and producer and runs his own entertainment production company alongside fellow actor and wife Hannah Walters. After early roles in Snatch and Gangs of New York, he rose to prominence playing skinhead Combo in Shane Meadows' This Is England. He's since starred in movies including Martin Scorsese's The Irishman and the one-shot film Boiling Point, as well as TV series Boardwalk Empire, Line of Duty, Peaky Blinders, A Thousand Blows, The Virtues. and the Netflix phenomenon Adolescence. Fucking hell, that's a lot, that is. It's the legendary Stephen Graham Obey, everybody! Thank you very much. Mate, what? Speaker 3 (2:59) I felt like you was asking me one of the questions there on a game show I was about to come up with the answer. No, don't bank it, you can carry on. Speaker 4 (3:08) Does that feel amazing here? I mean, you must have heard that a lot, right? Yeah, Speaker 3 (3:10) I've never heard a Speaker 4 (3:11) soliloquy like that. Speaker 3 (3:13) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 4 (3:14) There's a lot going on there. It's incredible. Now, we're very excited about this. We've got a present for you. We've got a present for you, Stephen. Okay. Now, this is, I'm going to give Georgie full credit for this because I said, I think this would be a great gift for Stephen. All right? And Georgie... Has gone to 15 different shops. Oh, God, I'm nervous Speaker 3 (3:44) now. I'm going to show Speaker 4 (3:45) you the gift. Okay. And then I'm going to tell you exactly Speaker 3 (3:49) what happened. Okay. Let me just say, though. Yeah. And Hannah gives me so much shit for this, basically. I'm really terrible at pretending that I like something when I don't. Speaker 4 (4:01) That's fine. I'm going to be honest with you. If you don't like this. But now I feel really sorry for Georgie. Well, she looks like she's crying already. I haven't even turned on yet, Rog. All right, here you go. Just say what you think. Well, go on. No, Speaker 3 (4:14) you said Speaker 4 (4:14) there was a Speaker 3 (4:14) story behind Speaker 4 (4:15) it. Speaker 3 (4:15) Well, open it first and then I'll tell you. It's a little Speaker 4 (4:17) bit of a story, but have a look. See what you think. If you don't like it, it's fine if you don't like it. Speaker 3 (4:24) Oh, oh, oh. So this is Speaker 4 (4:27) a vinyl copy of Young MC's Know How. Speaker 3 (4:35) Oh, Georgie! Fucking Speaker 4 (4:36) hell! Speaker 3 (4:37) What a present! Oh, my days! That's phenomenal! Now, I'm not blagging it, you can tell, can't you? I've gone tingly and everything. That's absolutely... How did you... So, basically, Speaker 4 (4:52) Georgie went to 15 different record shops. She ended up in a shop called 181. 181, yeah. Yeah, hip-hop shop and cafe. That, what you're looking at there... This is a genuinely true story. Georgie said, we're looking for a present for Stephen Graham for the Romesh show. He didn't have any copies. He sold Georgie his copy. What you are holding is the owner of the shop's vinyl copy of that tune. Really? Because they're so hard to get hold of. Speaker 3 (5:19) Oh my God. He's got a little note Speaker 4 (5:21) in there for you. As soon as he found that it's for you. I haven't got my bins on. That's all right. It says, legend, legend, legend. Here's the record. Basically, that's Speaker 3 (5:29) the Speaker 4 (5:29) gist. Speaker 3 (5:30) What's his name? I can't see. So this is Rod from Speaker 4 (5:34) 181. That you are looking at, he said he's actually played it at clubs. So that record has done the rounds. Speaker 1 (5:43) Wow. He said it's quite worn, but it's very loved. Speaker 3 (5:48) Rod, thank you very much, mate. Thank you very much. How many shops did he go to, George? What a gift. Speaker 1 (5:54) Well, virtually I went to lots. I called around lots of places. Okay, so you didn't go to Speaker 4 (5:57) lots. No, it's just good to mop up the story, really. Sorry, Stephen. Georgie looked online for about ten minutes, found Rod. Found Rod and said, Rod, these are very nice. That's phenomenal. And then Rod, when you went to the shop, Rod got the record. I'm laughing. This is not actually a... Rod got the record and played it. So Georgie was in the shop. And he played it for Speaker 3 (6:18) you Speaker 4 (6:18) just to Speaker 3 (6:19) show you that it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was very offensive. Speaker 4 (6:22) And you were in a bit of a rush, weren't you? So you were going, this is really cool. Oh my God, this is the full version. Can you hurry Speaker 3 (6:26) up, please? Yes. Is it a remix? Yeah. Wow. Thank you so much. That is absolutely brilliant. As soon as I get home, I'm going to bang that on. Yeah. Did Speaker 4 (6:37) he say it was... I didn't realise it would be that... I didn't think it would be that difficult a job to get it. I Speaker 1 (6:42) think because it was quite popular. Right, Speaker 4 (6:44) at the time. Speaker 1 (6:44) Yeah. Speaker 4 (6:45) But Speaker 1 (6:45) actually, it was really hard to track down across London. Speaker 4 (6:48) Yeah, and you got shouted at by a punk shop, didn't you? Speaker 1 (6:50) Yeah. Speaker 4 (6:50) Find up a punk shop and said, have you got Young MC? And they went, this is Speaker 2 (6:54) a punk shop. We tell you that's hip hop. Get off the line. Speaker 4 (6:59) Should we shout them out? Fucking nest of pricks. Speaker 2 (7:06) That's a great name. Speaker 4 (7:09) Do you know all the lyrics to that tune? Quite possibly. And do you do it karaoke? Is that true? I have Speaker 3 (7:17) done it karaoke, I think, once. Have you ever been to hip Speaker 4 (7:21) -hop karaoke? No. Mate. Where's that? So it's run by my mate Rob Percy. It's a travelling night, but it's karaoke, but just hip-hop. Wow. I run a nightclub for the love of hip hop. Yeah. And with mine too, and Rob Percy. So Rob does hip hop karaoke as part of the thing. And we originally did it like club time, so 10 till 4. And then we were too old for this. So now we do it from like 3 till 8. And the people that come and do it, one guy came and did a Digital Underground tune. He brought the glasses. Which one? Humpty Dance. Humpty Dance. Yeah, Humpty Dance. And he brought something. Because in a Speaker 3 (8:01) 69, my Humpty nose will circle your rear. My nose is big. I'm not afraid. Big like a pickle. I'm Speaker 4 (8:07) still getting paid. Speaker 3 (8:08) Yes, mate! Speaker 4 (8:09) That's a great impression, Speaker 3 (8:11) man. Thank you very much. Speaker 4 (8:12) He brought glasses with the nose. Played Speaker 3 (8:14) by Speaker 4 (8:14) the Speaker 3 (8:14) ladies and living it up. Sorry, I know I can't stop thinking of it. Yeah, Speaker 4 (8:17) he brought Speaker 3 (8:17) glasses and everything. He brought glasses Speaker 4 (8:18) and the nose. And somebody else. Chain. Yeah. If somebody else did food, they'd go in. One guy. I know it's not strictly hip-hop. He did 21 seconds, all of the verses. Wow. Including the chorus. One guy. One fella. Did the whole lot. It was mad. It was mad. Wow. How important is music to you now, then? I know you've got a hip-hop background, but how much does music play a part in your life now? Massively. There's always music. Speaker 3 (8:47) Hannah's phenomenal at finding new artists and stuff. And my dad. always brings new artists and now obviously you've got Grace and Alfie who bring music there's always music in our house yeah it's a it's a necessity I think do you know what I mean do Speaker 4 (9:02) you use it at work I do yeah I do in Speaker 3 (9:04) many different ways I do for kind of I'll find a song that gives me a mood for a character right Sometimes that's kind of a little road I'll go down. And it can be anything, do you know what I mean? It can be absolutely anything. It can be classical music, it can be hip-hop, it can be anything. But just something that I'll get me into that Speaker 4 (9:24) character. How do you choose what song? Is it like, do you look at what the character's traits are and then try and find something that matches that or something that they might listen to? Is that what you're thinking? No, it's more that kind of thing, Speaker 3 (9:37) what you said first of all. It's just something organically that I'll listen to a song and it'll give me that feeling or that intention, do you know what I mean? It'll just create that mood for me, basically. tend to find a song to get me into the mood base of the character. Sounds a bit wanky and pretentious, but it's Speaker 4 (9:55) not. Speaker 3 (9:55) Well, I Speaker 4 (9:55) would say, even if it did sound wanky, which it didn't, it's working for you. You know, like, what would be embarrassing is if you did that and you were shit. Yeah, of course. That would be... No, look, see, I'm randomly... So, Speaker 3 (10:07) what I do remember is, one of the ones that really stick out is when I did Boardwalk Empire. Yeah. And when I was playing Al Capone, it was kind of... I couldn't, it was, he was a wonderful character to play, do you know what I mean? So much fun. But what I used, because there was levels to him as well, we were not just trying to play that one-dimensional kind of aggressive hard man, do you know what I mean? There was complications to him and kind of trying to get into that understanding of who he was as a man. And Ben True, Plan B, his first album, he had a song on there which, there was a lyric in there which went, Speaker 3 (10:44) I'll stab you in the eye with a baro, the same fucking baro you used to sign your gyro. And that just, don't ask me why, but it made me think of Al Capone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because Speaker 4 (10:54) when I heard that, I was like, fucking yeah, we'll stab you in the eye with a baro. Speaker 3 (10:57) Do you know what I mean? And what are you doing with a fucking gyro in the first place? But it was everything else that was in that song, but it created that kind of... It gives you that energy that Speaker 4 (11:05) you need to have for that. Yeah, for that particular role. Speaker 3 (11:07) Don't Speaker 4 (11:07) fuck with me sort of thing. Speaker 3 (11:08) Yeah. Speaker 4 (11:09) Yeah. Yeah. I should start listening to that, man. Change up my style, do you know what I mean? I feel like I'm too late, but no, but I need to fucking, I need some of that fucking baro-jaro energy, man. No, you don't. Fucking fuck someone up. No, you don't. No. I'd love it, though. You're smooth. I'd love to do it for a day. You'd love to walk around like that for a day. Just to be a fucking bad man. You know, like, I sometimes, like, with hip-hop in particular, put on, like, some pretty aggressive tunes and then I'm walking around the supermarket. Yeah. And you think you're a proper, I think I'm Speaker 3 (11:38) a Speaker 4 (11:38) proper bad man. Yeah, I know what you mean. Choosing cereal. A bit of Speaker 3 (11:40) Ice Speaker 4 (11:40) Cube or something Speaker 3 (11:41) like that. Yeah, Speaker 4 (11:41) yeah, Speaker 3 (11:41) yeah. Speaker 4 (11:41) And you're pushing the Speaker 3 (11:42) trolley. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Speaker 4 (11:45) Yeah. I remember, like, I interviewed Ice Cube once. Did you? Yeah, for my radio show. And I said to him. This is not about me, by the way. I'm going to let you speak at some point. No, Speaker 3 (11:56) it's Speaker 4 (11:56) all right. We're going to get a lot Speaker 3 (11:57) of Speaker 4 (11:57) fucking hate for this. It's a two-way conversation. We've got Stephen Graham on. Do you want to let him get a couple of words in, you prick? I can already predict the comments. But when I said to him... Don't look at them. Yeah, I know. I can't help it. It's how I masturbate. Don't fuck it. Oh, God, no. Fucking hell. Speaker 3 (12:12) Yes, keep calling me bad things. Tell me I'm a... No, sorry. Speaker 4 (12:17) I've just said that word. It's really sorry. I didn't mean that. It's all right. We do it loads. Don't worry about it. No, I... That's Speaker 3 (12:24) a weird perverted image you've just put in my head there, which I can't shake at the minute. No, do you know Speaker 4 (12:28) what? It was Speaker 3 (12:29) a slight exaggeration Speaker 4 (12:30) of the truth. I fucking hope so. Speaker 4 (12:35) But the honest truth is there's something about me that likes seeing people having a go. I don't know what it is. So if something like that happens, I want to see it. I don't know why. It's bad, isn't it? It's like some sort of... You don't do that, I take it. Well, you don't get me. Speaker 3 (12:55) I Speaker 4 (12:55) don't Speaker 3 (12:55) really look. I try not to look. I don't really... Do you know what I mean? People will tell me things that might be on it, but I try not to look. Speaker 4 (13:02) Because you Speaker 3 (13:02) can go down a rabbit hole, only takes one person to make one bad comment and that sticks in your head. Yeah. Speaker 4 (13:08) But when I said to Ice Cube, he did a song called, he did an album called Death Certificate. On the album, there's a song called Bird in the Hand, right? And it's all about how young black males fell into drug dealing in the 90s. It was like a real snapshot of black America at that time. Speaker 4 (13:26) I was interviewing him and I said, I just wanted to say I thought the way you encapsulated the journey to drug dealing that a lot of black men in LA were facing is really accurate and on point. I think, Romesh, what are you talking about? How can you possibly know? You grew up in Crawley. Well done, Ice Cube. I thought you nailed that, bro. What was his Speaker 3 (13:48) response? He Speaker 4 (13:49) just got excited that I knew that. He was just like, thank you. As soon as they think you're an actual... fan. Rappers don't want to do interviews. So as soon as they know that you've actually listened to something, they're delighted. Have you watched that one where you interviewed... Ray Kwan. Speaker 3 (14:05) Yeah. Speaker 4 (14:05) Wow. And Rob rapped in front of him. Yeah. And he wasn't too bad. He was alright actually. You've got to give him his credit. He was alright. Yeah, he was alright. Yeah, he was alright. I think he benefited from low expectations. Yeah. But he was pretty good. Have you doubled... I know you were in a breakdancing crew. Speaker 3 (14:23) When Speaker 4 (14:23) I was a kid, yeah. Yeah. When's the last time you threw down? Speaker 3 (14:28) Probably at a christening and pulled me up or something like that, I think. No, it was... Because it was big where Speaker 4 (14:34) I came from as a kid, you know what I mean? It Speaker 3 (14:36) kind of... You Speaker 4 (14:37) know, it just blew up, didn't it, really? And there was a few Speaker 3 (14:42) people around by ours who were into it and a lot of my cousins were into it. Our little pop, he was brilliant. He was, God rest his soul, he was a wonderful breakdancer. But there was two lads in particular, Darren Ailey. and Justin Henry who were phenomenal and they kind of took me under the wing a little bit do you know what I mean and taught me a few moves and stuff like that and everything and we used to take our lino down to the townie when I get all blaster and do it in the townie and earn a couple of quid did you get Speaker 4 (15:09) a crowd? Speaker 3 (15:10) yeah we had a good circle around us yeah we were alright do you know what I mean it was decent Speaker 4 (15:15) we Speaker 3 (15:15) were good so we'd go every Saturday morning to the townie And my man never knew, but my auntie Vera was there once and I'm breaking and I look up and I was like, oh shit, there's our Vera. And I just carried on. And then I finished and she was like, what are you doing? I was like, well, we're just break dancing. She was like, yeah, there he goes, yeah. Give me 50 pence or something like that. There you go. But it was just, it was, you know, it was something that, it started from the community centre, going to Como, the boys club up the top of Ruffey. And then it just kind of progressed from there really. Speaker 4 (15:47) And do you, did you indulge in any other stuff? Like, for example, I did a little bit of graffiti. You know, like when you do the pillars of hip hop? Yeah, I had Speaker 3 (15:56) to Speaker 4 (15:56) go, yeah. Yeah, Speaker 3 (15:57) on Speaker 4 (15:57) my own skill. Did you have a tag? Speaker 3 (16:00) Yeah. Yeah, but it was a bit of a dickhead because my nickname, but it was a good nickname. My nickname was Dutchie. Right. Because me and my ma went to Holland for a little bit when I was a kid and I come home and one of my mates, David McMahon, David McMahon went to him, where have you been? And I was like, oh, we were in Holland and he was like, I'm going Speaker 4 (16:19) to Speaker 3 (16:19) call you Dutchie from now on. So in Kirby, I was known Speaker 4 (16:22) as Dutchie. It's amazing how nicknames start, isn't it? Yeah, but it's a great nickname, isn't Speaker 3 (16:26) it? Speaker 4 (16:26) Dutchie, it's Speaker 3 (16:27) a Speaker 4 (16:27) botched Speaker 3 (16:27) nickname. But then when you spray it on your own school, I mean, no one can say it wasn't you, can they? What a gobshite. Speaker 4 (16:37) Dutchie. Yeah. Speaker 3 (16:39) Was that you, Stephen? No, sir. I think it fucking was. Yeah. So, yeah, I did a little bit of that. Yeah. Yeah, and then we'd done it in school, didn't we? Remember we had to back our books and stuff like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you'd do the block writing and stuff. That's Speaker 4 (16:54) why I kind of loved the whole hip-hop thing so much because, and I know a lot of other music journalists have this, but it felt like a proper culture. You'd have mates that were good at DJing. You'd know people that were into breaking, graffiti. You'd have a guy spitting a hot 16. Do you know what I mean? All of that. It was an amazing, it just totally... I mean, I still slightly, occasionally, I feel like I still dress like I'm influenced by hip-hop. Occasionally, Lisa will go to me, this is starting to look like a fancy dress now. And then I have to change. I get the same. Do you really? Yeah, I do. In fact, Speaker 3 (17:30) the other day, we both came down in a pair of trackies and we looked like a fucking dance troupe or something. We had similar trackies on me and Alan. It was like... oh, what are we doing? But yeah, every now and again, she'll tell me the same thing. Yeah. It's like you're 53 now, do you know what I mean? But you can't help it, can you? When you see a piece of clothing or an item that you really, that reminds you of that nostalgia. Yeah, Speaker 4 (17:51) yeah. Like a number of tracksuits, I just, I ended up getting like a MF Doom tracksuit. Like there was like a, I got a custom MF Doom like tracksuit made just like his album cover and it arrived. And I showed Lisa and she was like, okay, it's cool. And then I put it on and she went, what are you doing? I said, I'm just coming. She goes, you