‘Lanterns’ Season 1 Finale Instant Reactions, Plus a Talk With Chris Mundy | The Midnight Boys

The Ringer-Verse

The hosts react to the Season 1 finale of HBO's Lanterns, analyzing its grounded approach to superhero storytelling and its focus on character-driven resolution over traditional CGI spectacle. They

Key takeaways

• Chris Mundy confirms the finale deliberately avoided a CGI boss battle to prioritize emotional closure, drawing direct comparisons to Daredevil Season 1 and Smallville's character-first approach.
• The hosts highlight how Hal Jordan's death and Noah's Manhunter programming explore nature vs. nurture, with John choosing mercy and trust over preemptive violence, which Mundy identifies as a core thematic pillar.

Main topics

• Lanterns Season 1 finale analysis
• Character development and heroism (John Stewart, Hal Jordan)

Notable quotes

"Fear is actually just emotional intelligence."

Conclusion

The episode delivers a comprehensive breakdown of how Lanterns successfully recontextualized

Transcript preview

Speaker 5 (0:00) you Speaker 5 (0:05) Welcome into the Ringerverse. This is, of course, the Ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. We are Steve, the architect, Almond, the builder and tinkerer of things. Jomie, the explainer, Adidaron. You've got questions, he's got answers. Old Man Van, he of the resurgent Guy Gardner hairline. Coke Baby Chuck, the 24 karat closer. Together we are known as Alpha Midnight Boys. We'll be right back after this. Speaker 5 (0:42) All right, follow us on socials, at The Midnight Boys Pod on Insta and TikTok, at Ringiverse on Insta, Twitter, Facebook, and TikTok. You know what I mean? Speaker 6 (0:54) Yo, guys, we're really excited. I mean, just want to thank you guys for following us through this Green Lantern coverage. You guys have been really, it's been really incredible to see what you guys are saying online. Man, these niggas need Speaker 4 (1:07) to get off Speaker 6 (1:07) our nuts. Speaker 5 (1:08) Clipping the podcast and all that stuff. Sharing it. Sharing it, man. What happened? What'd I miss? Speaker 6 (1:15) Oh, you're not on Twitter anymore. No, what happened? Oh, Speaker 5 (1:17) he's Speaker 6 (1:17) not on Speaker 5 (1:17) Twitter Speaker 6 (1:18) anymore. It's bad. Why? They took part of the conversation we had with Vanessa and Justin. The Speaker 3 (1:25) Kamala Biden conversation. Oh, y Speaker 6 (1:30) 'all Speaker 3 (1:30) put Speaker 6 (1:31) that in the group chat. Yeah, what'd they say? I didn't see it. Speaker 3 (1:34) It's bad. Speaker 6 (1:34) Who's going crazy? You know, the Speaker 5 (1:36) Twittersphere. Speaker 6 (1:38) You know what I'm saying? That right-wing section of online where they're like, these people and they suck our dicks. You know what I'm saying? Speaker 5 (1:44) There's points. Vanessa and Justin are on the show. And they're great. They're awesome. Phenomenal writers who are a part of one of the best superhero shows to come out in a long time. And you're not. Let them talk about what was going on. You don't have to be a cuck. You can have your opinion. But any toxicity will be met with commiserate disrespect. Speaker 2 (2:04) Yes. Any Speaker 5 (2:05) toxicity will be met with that same amount of disrespect. When are you coming back to Twitter? I'm never coming back. Are Speaker 3 (2:10) you off threads too? Basically, yeah. Okay. Never? That was a very short stint on threads. Speaker 5 (2:15) Look, I might go there every once in a while to post about Tailgate or something like that, but I cannot live in constant reactivity. I have to be able to think and formulate things that are building. So I can't. continuously be on anything to where somebody says something and it immediately triggers an emotion in my body. Can't do it anymore. So I understand that being a part of the conversation on there and the news breaking on there is still bar none. I'm not trying to be holier than thou. But just for me, period, living my entire life in a state of reactivity makes me less curious and it makes me more like, think about me going on all Reddit. and leaving long ass things, talking to the people, that's dare ready. So like for me, I don't need to be in that space. Like I don't do well Speaker 4 (3:02) with that. Speaker 5 (3:02) I fucking Speaker 4 (3:02) love this. This is Jon Stewart leaving the lantern in the room. Speaker 5 (3:07) There you Speaker 4 (3:08) go. Speaker 5 (3:09) You like blue sky? You on blue ski? No, I mean, look, you might see me pop up on these things to promote something or get the lay of the land, but like being... online like that. I got too much shit that I want to accomplish. We're on YouTube. Like, comment, Speaker 6 (3:20) subscribe, share. Speaker 5 (3:21) You can watch every Midnight Boys and House of R episode on YouTube.com backslash at Ringiverse. Thank you, like Jomie said, to everybody that's running the YouTube going crazy. That's amazing. We're going to keep that going by continuing to feed the beast on YouTube. Programming reminders. On Monday, House of R finishes their Deep Dive Lanterns coverage. They have been absolutely phenomenal. There's a lot of show that... Lanterns gives us. And our sisters over there are doing a fantastic job at contextualizing all of it. On Friday, Bud Mash covers Valor Mortis and Forever Ago. Steve? Speaker 3 (3:59) Yeah, Valor Mortis. I think that's a Souls-like game. And forever ago, that's like a it's an indie road trip You don't Speaker 5 (4:07) know Speaker 3 (4:07) I don't know I wasn't asked to play this I'm not saying Speaker 4 (4:10) like 80 games He said Speaker 5 (4:13) Souls-like I'm out Ben's putting me to work I'm playing like 20 games with Ben You lying bro Oh, but no, he right though Valor Mortis is a Souls-like action What's Souls-like? Souls Speaker 3 (4:23) -like, it's like Are you familiar with Dark Souls? No, no. All right. Well, it's a very like difficult action adventure game. Speaker 6 (4:30) Well, what is it though? Speaker 5 (4:32) It's Speaker 6 (4:32) like a game formula. It's Speaker 5 (4:33) a Speaker 6 (4:33) very hard game where they kind of like, they just throw you in there and you have to kind of like learn by yourself. Speaker 4 (4:40) It's like Elden Ring before Elden. Yeah, you know Elden Ring? It's like if you die, Speaker 3 (4:43) all of your stuff resets and you got to go out and get more stuff. Yeah. Elden Ring Speaker 5 (4:47) though, for the time that I got into like Elden Ring, there was Elden Ring, but there was a different one though. There was a game that came out. And I'm telling you guys, I played the game. But I can't remember the name of the game now. I had to play it for Cybernet. Okay. And it was a game like Elden Ring. What was it called? Bloodborne? What was it called? Skyrim? I don't think it was Skyrim. Elder Scrolls. Elder Scrolls! Oh, so it probably was Skyrim. Elder Scrolls Oblivion. Oblivion! Is that the name of it? It's Elder Scrolls Oblivion. And I kind of got into Elder Scrolls Oblivion for a little while. That's just great. It's classic. Speaker 6 (5:22) That's for y'all. Y'all got it. Give me my scent trails and my yellow markings. Yeah, blue, green paint gamer right Speaker 5 (5:27) there. Speaker 6 (5:27) Give me my yellow paint, bro. Speaker 5 (5:28) All right. New York Comic Con update. Ooh. Update, motherfuckers. We will be hosting a meetup in New York. It is Saturday, October 10th at 8 p.m. Mm-hmm. Okay. I head to Hill Country and go downstairs to the bar. Okay, listen. I'll say that again. Head to Hill Country. Hill Country Barbecue? Hill Country Barbecue and go downstairs to the Boot Bar to find us. The Boot Bar. No badge needed. No badge needed, guys. If Speaker 3 (5:57) you are attending New Speaker 5 (5:57) York Comic Con, come to our panel at the Javits Center. That is on Saturday, October 10th at 4.30 p.m. Okay? Then later on, go to Hill Country Barbecue Speaker 4 (6:07) and go to the Boot Bar. Come see us, man. Hey. Boys with the boot box. Hey, y'all better act right, you know? We not having no San Diego shenanigans. Right. Hopefully that guy don't got a... I mean, you imagine he just flew Speaker 6 (6:19) to D.C. It's the same guys. It's one guy. You can't come. But if you in New York, if you in Philadelphia, if you in Baltimore, if you in D.C., if you in Jersey, man, come through. Come see your people. Speaker 5 (6:30) Come hang out with us, bro. Yeah, man. It's going to be funny when y'all see that nigga at Comic-Con next year. Speaker 5 (6:39) Nah, Speaker 4 (6:40) he Speaker 5 (6:40) gonna be at the raft, Bell Reeve or something like that. They can't contain him. Arkham. Just got out. Just got out. Can you imagine getting parole from Arkham? No. Arkham is only for like the worst super criminals though, right? Speaker 4 (6:59) There's prison breaks every other week. So it's kind of like. Speaker 3 (7:02) But I feel like there's a gen pop in Arkham, right? There's not a gen pop. I don't know. It's Speaker 5 (7:08) an Speaker 3 (7:08) insane asylum. It's Speaker 5 (7:09) an insane asylum. Yeah, but Speaker 3 (7:10) they don't have 50 jokers running around there. They only have one. They might. Right. There's another jail. Oh, Blackgate. Blackgate is the jail jail. Blackgate is for Speaker 6 (7:20) the regular people. One of the goons might be in Blackgate. Yeah. Speaker 3 (7:24) Right? But the head guys, you take them to Arkham. Yeah, but you could have less criminally insane people and also go to Arkham. But you're not like the Joker. Nah, man. I mean. You're not scarecrow. And it's not Batman not using. It's an Speaker 4 (7:36) asylum. It's not a prison. Yeah. So it's less people. And more care. Yeah. Okay. Like you said, is Victor Zsasz to Speaker 3 (7:44) Blackgate or are you sending him to Arkham? Who? Victor Zsasz. Speaker 4 (7:47) He's Speaker 3 (7:48) in Speaker 4 (7:48) Arkham. He's in Arkham. If you're in Batman's rogues gallery, you're probably in Arkham. But like Deadshot would be like. Blackgate. Blackgate. Okay. But the thing is, the problem specifically. Speaker 6 (8:01) with Arkham, they'd be breaking out every week. If Batman was a real one, put your money over there. Bruce Wayne, give him a couple, couple mil. Bruce Wayne don't give a fuck about mental health. Yeah. Clearly not. Speaker 5 (8:10) He doesn't care about his own. Yeah. Therapy could help him with what he's going through, but he chose not to. All right. Okay. All right. On today's episode, that was a neat little tangent. You guys, please come visit us in New York. We're going to be there. Having a great time this next week. But on today's episode. Oh, it's actually this week. It's Speaker 6 (8:26) actually... We leave on Wednesday. It's actually this weekend. Yeah. On today's episode, Speaker 5 (8:30) we react to the season finale of Lanterns. There's been so much talk. There's been so much speculation. So much discussion. But now, where are we? The end. Of this season, at least. Speaker 2 (8:43) Gotta Speaker 5 (8:44) get into it. Give the streets what they want. In order to do that, we have to spoil some shit. It's gonna get spoiled. Everything's gonna get spoiled. Spoiling everything. All right? Steve, run a spoiler warning. Speaker 5 (8:58) We're getting ready to talk about Leonard. You're listening to a reaction podcast. Speaker 5 (9:08) The spoilers are coming. I would also like to say that stick around because after our discussion, we are going to have an interview that the four of us conducted with showrunner, executive producer, and writer Chris Mundy. Speaker 3 (9:23) Yeah. Fun time. Your Speaker 5 (9:25) boy, Speaker 4 (9:25) creator and creator of Ozark. Creator of Ozark. Speaker 5 (9:28) Big deal. You love Ozark. Love Ozark. Love Ozark. But we still have to react to this in order to do that. We need the Midnight Manifest. The only person who can give you that is Chuck Wagon. Chuck, take it away. Speaker 4 (9:42) All right, this is your Midnight Manifest for the season finale of Lantern Season 1, Dirt and Stars, directed by Alik Sakharov, written by Chris Mundy, Damon Lindelof, and Tom King. The finale begins with the love story between Hal and Carrie. The sheriff picks Hal up from prison and they begin their life together in Rushville. Things take a turn for the worse when Hal's house is attacked and he's burned alive. Noah saves Hal and rebuilds his skin using the same machine that his grandmother did on John. The star quarterback reveals to Hal that he's a Manhunter. but demands the disgraced Lantern not inform his mother that he's been aware all along. Back in the present, Sinestro reveals that Noah broke him out of prison. John waterboards Sinestro in the Fear Lake until the villain reveals that he made a new Lantern for the Manhunter to use with Hal's decommissioned ring. John takes the Lantern but refuses to charge it, fearful of any booby traps Sinestro might have laid into the cracked and yellowing Lantern. Noah ambushes John in Rushville and takes back the ring. He admits to killing Hal and asks John to help him. with an assisted suicide before his Manhunter programming turns him into a genocidal weapon. John doesn't believe him and forces Carrie to admit that she was Hal's real murderer. When Hal confronts her about Noah, she panicked and killed him. Instead of turning Carrie in, John says that's not what the real Hal would have wanted. John calls Guy Gardner and informs the Green Lantern that he'll be taking over the jurisdiction of Earth while he can have the rest of the sector. Hal Graham says he loves John before disappearing and Stuart finally charges his ring while reciting a new oath. That has been your Midnight Manifest for Lantern's season finale. throwing it back to you, Van? Speaker 5 (11:06) Muted finale that I thought was fantastic. Speaker 4 (11:10) Okay. Speaker 5 (11:11) I don't know what I expected from a finale. Obviously, I expected to get answers about the remaining Manhunters and wherever they might be, who killed Hal Jordan. But I don't think that I thought the show would be able to successfully wrap up all of its conclusions and storylines in such an accessible way. There weren't very many moments. in this show where I was like, Jesus Christ. Yet and still, it completely flowed. It completely worked. It all came together seamlessly and beautifully and to me, put the finishing touches on one of the greatest seasons of superhero television storytelling that I've ever seen. Speaker 4 (11:53) So can I ask? Speaker 4 (11:56) because we've been doing this for a while, this finale kind of circumvents our expectations of what a superhero show finale should be. Absolutely. Oh, yeah. What are the finales, since we've been doing this, that have worked when they're bombastic in that way? When it's a big shootout, when it's a big villain? Because it's like... Loki. Loki season one. But that was just them Speaker 3 (12:20) talking, really. That was the finale. Yeah, Speaker 5 (12:22) but like, oh, Speaker 4 (12:23) I Speaker 3 (12:23) guess you're right. That Speaker 4 (12:24) wasn't a big knockoff. So the times Speaker 5 (12:26) where they have gone big, you'd say WandaVision, which is the weakest part of that season. Yeah. I would say Falcon and the Winter Soldier. That Speaker 4 (12:35) was the weakest part of that season. Speaker 5 (12:36) I Speaker 6 (12:36) mean, they tried to do the whole talking thing at the end. Right, with him doing big in the studio. Yeah, Speaker 4 (12:41) but Speaker 6 (12:41) he got the Speaker 4 (12:41) suit and then there was all the kung fu and all that shit. And it wasn't the best Speaker 5 (12:44) part of that season. Well, that's because this show avoids something. And we talk about the serve Dracula thing, which this show kind of does. But this show avoids something that those shows didn't. This show, he gets the ring and then he flies away like at the end. Yeah. This was a Daredevil season one finale to me. Well, even in Daredevil season one, you're right. Well, he's got a costume and he's fighting people. And he fights. There's the big showdown with Kingpin. Speaker 4 (13:12) But that season, like this season, is very much, if you had to boil it down to a sentence, we are making this character, turning him into Daredevil. And this, I was like, oh. By the end of the episode, I was like, this was always Jon's story. This was never going to be the thing where Jon gets the right, because. I can't lie. Deep down in my heart, I wanted John to get the ring and get busy. I wanted him to steal the ring from Noah, start slinging that shit around, and they went for something that I think was... Speaker 4 (13:42) I'll put it to you this way. I ended up liking this season finale because Kyle Chandler and Aaron Pierre are so electric and the chemistry is so much. By the time they admit that they love each other, I'm like... this is kind of what TV is for. Speaker 5 (13:58) So, I totally agree. Let's think about what the purpose of the season was. Like, what type of hero they were trying to make. We're going to talk a little bit to Chris Mundy about this when he comes on at the end of the show. But with Daredevil, if we compare just to that, because that is a finale that really works, even though they do the big fight theme. With that, he finally has the suit. Speaker 4 (14:21) You Speaker 5 (14:22) know, you have seen Daredevil throughout the entire season get cut. cut up the hand, cut them all up, and you're like, he's not going to be able to do what he's doing unless he adds a couple of layers of protection onto him. He's not going to be able to face off against Kingpin and all of this stuff unless he's the fully formed daredevil that we know him to be. This story is about what makes John a hero. And when you think about it, what makes him a hero is breaking the programming that he got. The programming, the raising, whatever you guys are, I don't need you guys to go crazy in the comments again. I said what I said, and I believe what I believe, and even he believes it, because him becoming a fully formed individual is what had to happen. That is what made Jon Stewart. He can already work the ring. He worked the ring and made a big fucking drill episodes ago. He can already do all of that stuff. What he couldn't do was think for himself, make decisions for himself, and worry about only... being a hero from his point of view. And once everything happened to Rushville, everything happened to Hal, he had to make decisions on his own, by himself. That is what entitles him to be the Green Lantern of Earth. And that is what is completely driven home and tied up with the bow at the end of this season of television. Speaker 4 (15:39) This was the first time that John didn't pull the trigger, where since he was a kid... He's always had a weapon in his hand. Speaker 6 (15:50) And Speaker 4 (15:50) he always had to shoot the apple. And it was interesting when he's talking to Noah and reveals that Zoe wanted a mercy killing. And like, I do think it was, it's a controversial choice. I don't know if I fully like it. But story-wise, it was satisfying to be like, oh, to be the Green Lantern, he has to do the one thing that Hal couldn't. which is realize like, who am I without this ring? Who am I without this weapon? And I thought it was very, very interesting that for, for John, he has to make the choice of letting Noah live and being, cause he sees himself in Noah. And I was like, Oh, that's like, he has Speaker 5 (16:29) to trust. And he has to also learn how to pick his battles. Yes. Speaker 4 (16:34) To fight his fight. Not somebody else's fight. Not Hal, not his parents, not the Guardians. Being a Speaker 5 (16:40) good soldier for Jon Stewart is not now nine months, mission critical, never leaving until that ends in something disappointing. It's the way he feels, what he needs Speaker 6 (16:52) to do, and what he thinks is right. He let the ball go, right? Hal wasn't capable of letting the ball go. It's what got him killed. That's Carrie's son. She's not just going to let you mess around with him and get him hurt or endanger himself, whatever. For John, he realized the kid really don't want to do nothing bad, man. If I leave him, I trust Kerry to make it work. It's a done deal. I walk away. He let the ball go when Hal didn't, and it got Hal killed. Here's Speaker 4 (17:24) the Speaker 6 (17:24) thing. Speaker 4 (17:25) I am killing the kid, though. If I'm John, I'm like, hey, bro, I've seen Terminator. I know how this goes. Yeah, but... You've Speaker 5 (17:33) seen Terminator. What Terminator got to do with this? Speaker 4 (17:35) You've Speaker 5 (17:35) seen Terminator. Speaker 4 (17:36) A fucking killing machine? Yeah. Speaker 5 (17:39) It's a reverse Terminator. But it's not. This is different, though. How is this different? Well, I'll say, okay, number one, which version of Terminator are we talking about? Let's be precise. I Speaker 4 (17:47) feel like this is T2. He's the liquid one. Speaker 5 (17:48) Okay. That liquid one is not... That's not... He wasn't raised by no nice white family. It's Speaker 4 (17:54) definitely Speaker 5 (17:54) T1. It's definitely T1. If it Speaker 6 (17:56) is T2, you know who it is? Speaker 5 (17:58) It's actually... Schwarzenegger's character in T2. It's him. He had enough programming to end up being like a good father to Jon Stewart and stuff like that. And he had to make this decision at the end of it. Another chip in his head. He had to get in a liquid lava or whatever like that. Yeah. It's very, me and my dad, we both did like that. Like when he did, it was very upsetting. But, but like to your point, I think there are going to be a lot of people who go, got to kill to kill a robot. And, Gotta put Carrie in Speaker 4 (18:30) jail. She killed a human being. If we stay on Noah, we have to be real. This little boy broke out Sinestro. At that point, I'm just like... You Speaker 3 (18:40) got Speaker 4 (18:40) a lot more red in your legend than you did on Noah. John wasn't really breaking down how crafty Speaker 6 (18:45) you have to be. I'm giving John some bail here because the name of the game is anybody... I mean, he mentioned it. He could have called a guy, overpowered a guy, took a guy's ring. He could have been done that. You feel me? I feel like he's like, look, if anybody going to take out Noah, it's got to be me. I'm the only one who can talk to him. I'm the only one who can see where he sees. That's why at the end of the day, he's like, yeah, give me the ring. I'm going to charge that thing because I'm going to take earth. Because if guys show up with the Manhunter, it's not going to go well. I'm the only one that I trust to deal with this Manhunter business if it does indeed come back. Speaker 4 (19:24) What happens if Noah gets a little freaky and now we got a bunch of fucking Manhunter children running around fucking Earth? Well, John said that that's going to be his problem later. Speaker 5 (19:32) He's a Manhunter children. Isn't he half Manhunter? Yeah. He's half. So like now, I mean, the Manhunter vibes, they just go down. The biracial Manhunter? They just get diluted. Yeah, biracial. Oh, it comes back. Y'all know how you get a quarter. Put him on the Manhunter list? Jesus Speaker 6 (19:45) Christ. Speaker 5 (19:45) But we know that there are certain, Speaker 6 (19:46) you know. The Manhunter list. Manhunter list. Speaker 5 (19:50) But no, so. You know, this is a chance. And that's another thing. Like, Jon operated with such certainty in other aspects of his life. He almost had to be certain in order to do stuff, right? This is uncertain. Like, the only thing that he knows is that he wants to try to be a Green Lantern under his own rules. Everything else, he's kind of taking a chance. You're taking a chance by letting Carrie go. You're taking a chance. Speaker 4 (20:14) You're Speaker 5 (20:14) letting Carrie go. Speaker 6 (20:15) That was... I mean, again, who cares? Like, I'm serious. Like, the town don't care. Town doesn't care. Like, Hal's dead. Nobody told anybody that Hal's dead, except only people who knew Hal's dead are Carrie, John, Noah, the town, and what's his name? And Carol Ferris. Yeah. That's it. Carrie could have Speaker 4 (20:35) had a conversation with Hal. Like, hey, Hal. Now, Speaker 6 (20:38) killing him. She didn't even use Speaker 4 (20:40) that. Speaker 6 (20:40) That was an act of passion. I think that was, like, the weirdest part of the episode to me because I had to watch it a couple times because I get. why she would kill him Speaker 3 (20:49) like in that moment. But Speaker 6 (20:51) to be Speaker 3 (20:51) driven like that to kill him? But to be driven Speaker 6 (20:52) like that just to be like one pop. I was like, dang, man. Speaker 3 (20:55) She just seemed very stressed and then just innately shocked. That's your guy? I thought they would talk about it some more or something like that. Speaker 6 (21:00) Yeah. Speaker 3 (21:01) Or he'd have an ultimatum or something. Yeah, that scene Speaker 5 (21:04) was interesting because she has been trying to protect Noah for his entire life, right? Against people knowing and everything that's going on. And John, it is, excuse me, Hal. It is in Hal's directive, in Hal's makeup to want to take him out. Speaker 6 (21:22) So Speaker 5 (21:23) the question is, who was going to act in that situation? Speaker 4 (21:26) But also, I want to shoot Hal some bail. He saw what happened to Rushville. He saw what happened when you let a Manhunter gain too much power. So there is a part of me where I'm like, it's not like Hal could have easily called up John or Guy and be like, There's a Manhunter. He tried to do it a different way. And that's, maybe that's what got him killed. He knows how dangerous Speaker 5 (21:51) Manhunters are, period. Not just Rushville, but in terms of like the kind of havoc that they wreak wherever they go. So for him, it was always going to be existential. For her, it is existential. And she, at this point, you know, when you think about it, normally in this entire show. Hal already always has a trick up his sleeve. He can always, his gut always lets him know that something is going to happen or somebody's not what they're going to do or what they think they're going to do or what they're really thinking. And at this point, I don't think he knew she was capable of that. Speaker 6 (22:23) I Speaker 5 (22:24) think that he didn't think that his gut maybe the one time it betrayed him. He did Speaker 4 (22:28) pick him up out the pen. That's some beer. That's day one. Speaker 6 (22:32) Draco sees him in a book bag. Frat shot got a little kick back. Do you think? Speaker 4 (22:37) Zoe. Speaker 4 (22:40) I was like. Speaker 4 (22:42) Was Zoe fucking around a little bit and did this on purpose because Carrie was acting like it was an accident and I'm like It don't it seemed like Zoe purposefully put a man under I Speaker 6 (22:53) Mean she did I mean she definitely knew yeah, so yeah, it probably was but Speaker 4 (22:58) Carrie didn't say Speaker 6 (22:59) it like did I am I miss remembering noble carried carry I mean, it's immaculate conception right the bait basically jeez better to Jesus right she had a Bill other Speaker 3 (23:08) people and they didn't end up pregnant. Yeah, that's what Speaker 6 (23:11) I'm saying Right? Like, literally. Who Speaker 4 (23:14) else Speaker 6 (23:14) was she with? She was with nobody. She said she got pregnant and hadn't been with anybody in Speaker 4 (23:18) a Speaker 6 (23:18) while. Yeah. Right. So, yeah. Speaker 4 (23:20) No, I'm agreeing with Speaker 6 (23:21) you. Speaker 4 (23:21) Yeah, but she was in the, like, this is what I don't get. You were in the fucking machine that gave you your finger back, and you just pop out with a baby. Zoey definitely was, like, typing in a, like, blah, blah, blah, Speaker 5 (23:33) blah. Maybe. Speaker 4 (23:35) Because she couldn't have kids with an old Speaker 6 (23:38) dude. Speaker 3 (23:38) Right, and at that point, she would have indoctrinated her to be like, you will be the vessel of carrying on the man of her legacy. I'm wondering more so why, Speaker 4 (23:45) because at the end, first of all, I was like, Billy, why are you fucking out here? Like, what did Billy know? Billy was just like... Billy, I think, Speaker 5 (23:52) was an instrument and a tool for the writers to throw us off. Probably. Because Billy does not have a lot of utility in this show. But he's always there. What is Billy doing? Why is Billy popping in? Billy's popping out? Billy was a way to throw us off. You know, early on, me having the wherewithal and the genius. Oh, God. Speaker 3 (24:13) Right. I'm just joking. But Speaker 5 (24:14) like, if you had that feeling, the other characters around Noah were the ones that were going to kind of distract you a little bit from the fact that it seemed like Zoe took extra special care of her grandson. Speaker 5 (24:30) that for whatever reason, she had the same type of bond. It didn't seem like it was a step-grandmom, but they did not look like each other. Speaker 6 (24:38) So Speaker 5 (24:38) there was some stuff that was going on. There was always a lot of mystery surrounding the kid, and then it ended up being the kid. How do you feel like that was actually reconciled, the fact that it was Noah all the time? Do you feel like it was too obvious at a certain point? Speaker 4 (24:52) I think it was very odd. I think there was a reason why we were like, you got to keep Noah on the board. And when it was finally revealed, it made story sense. But there was a little bit of me was like, this is very convenient. Like it. Part of me is like, oh, the show felt like it was missing a big bad because of the mystery. It kind of kept moving. And that's, I think, where I was like, oh, this was a muted season finale because everything that Jon was fighting is an internal battle. Speaker 3 (25:23) Like, Speaker 4 (25:23) it wasn't an external thing. I was like, oh, he's going to start slinging the ring at the football game. And I'm like. Oh, no, that's just not happening. Speaker 3 (25:30) That's the disorienting thing about this season because, like, we're built around this being centered around a big bad and that ended up being Zoe. And then once we got the 2026 timeline, we're kind of respun into disarray with Zoe. Even the big bad, though, Speaker 4 (25:45) because the reveal of John being like, she wanted me to kill her because she did not want to repeat the same genocidal act she did on the other alien. I Speaker 6 (25:53) agree. Like, I don't think so. And so that's why I'm, like, really interested to see, like. what the reception is to this episode. Because there is no big CG. We say, like, we don't want a CGI boss battle. Then when we don't get one, we kind of feel like, Speaker 3 (26:04) oh, Speaker 6 (26:05) interesting. I think this episode does a really good job of, like, ending the show, like, threading the, ending the threads of these characters in a way that feels fulfilling. Even though there's, again, no big CGI boss fight. But even as I'm watching the episode, I'm like, once, like, Noah puts the ring down and gives it back to John, I'm like, oh, they really not gonna fight. Speaker 5 (26:25) Yeah. Okay. Speaker 6 (26:26) Let's see how they do it. And I think they did it well, but I'm interested to see how Speaker 4 (26:29) people feel. Speaker 6 (26:29) This was an Speaker 4 (26:30) ending of a Naruto episode. You know, friendship solved everything. Speaker 5 (26:33) Well, I'm going to be real. Like, I think this is kind of sometimes my frustration with us. Because, like, not just us. I mean, us as a fan base. Not just us, but us as a fan base. So, if you have a big bad, you have to have the CGI fight. Speaker 4 (26:52) Sure. Speaker 5 (26:53) You have to have it. If you do something more nuanced, then you don't get the big CGI fight. Speaker 6 (26:59) What Speaker 5 (27:00) you get is characters resolving story, which is essentially what makes great television. We sometimes cannot be satisfied, to Jomie's point. It's like, if there is a big bad, if we ended up having a... If Sinestro's pulling the strings behind all of this and then we get a big Sinestro fight, well, does everything have to end in a big CGI fight? Well, no, it doesn't. There's another way to do it, which is the way that they did it. While it is definitely muted, I think it's interesting to explore a world where you don't have to have the fight, where the characters have learned to solve these conflicts in a different way. And so I think that that's actually, for me, Not just satisfying, but it was almost liberating. Speaker 4 (27:49) Yeah. Speaker 5 (27:50) Like, it was liberating to know that it can go that Speaker 3 (27:52) way. Speaker 5 (27:52) I mean, Speaker 4 (27:52) but also, if we think about it, the reason why, even if this wasn't my favorite episode of the season, the reason why the season as a whole to me is a success is that we got Obi-Wan. We got, like, we got everything that we said we wanted and we were still bitching. And I think a lot of times with like these superhero or sci-fi shows, we were talking to Mundy, we've talked to Justin and Vanessa about it. To me, it's more interesting to have the Green Lantern be something that not only is hard to use, but feels special. It feels like a lightsaber where it's like the minute you have a thousand lightsabers, the minute people are backflipping, like, oh, this feels a little less. Yeah, it feels, yeah, a little less special. And with this show, I was like, the Green Lantern ring still feels like something you can earn. It still feels like something that not just anybody can wield. And we know that John is going to be in Man of Tomorrow. We're going to get John flying around and doing all of the big stuff. Is that actually what you want to see on TV? Because usually it's not done well just because the budgets can't be what they need to be to make it look how we want it to look. Speaker 3 (29:01) And what it can do well is... wrap up that story. I think the one, like, even less so than that, I think the one, like, slight gripe that I would have had with this episode is that, like, there was a lot of very, very fast table setting in the beginning of this episode only to get us to that end. I think, like, when Sinestro has to explain, like, second and third hand to Hal O'Graham and John what Hal did with Noah to set up what we're going to eventually get to, I was like, okay, that's like a little... feels a little rushed and only just to use Sinestro for that purpose is odd. But then again, we're, we're back on track. I think that if to get that scene in the car where him and Noah are resolving those things are, is all worth it because that was one of my favorite scenes in the entire season. Speaker 6 (29:47) Yeah. Speaker 3 (29:48) I guess, I don't know. I don't, I don't mind. Like Sinestro needed a utility, Speaker 6 (29:52) right? Sure. So like who broke him out? He did that in episode three, right? He's always like... He's manipulating. Speaker 3 (30:00) He's telling the truth. And it could be bullshit. He could be lying. He manipulates Hal. How many times Speaker 6 (30:04) did he tell Hal, you got to kill John. You got to kill the kid. He's always trying to move stuff at the table. I was going to say he's bad at it. He's actually not because he actually did influence Hal in the first. But he didn't get John in this one, right? I think Sinestro's utility was used pretty well in this episode. But I do like... That conversation with Noah and John and the conversation that John has with Carrie, you guys are like, man, you should have turned Carrie in, man. I don't know, man. She was being a mother, man. You know, at the end of the day. Carrie Speaker 4 (30:37) is a fucking murderer. Yeah, Speaker 6 (30:40) she killed Hal. It's tough, man. We all make mistakes, right? She feels guilty. She's going to have to live with that the rest of her life. It's all good. It's always Speaker 5 (30:46) different when a white woman kills somebody. People act differently. Let it would have been like. Letitia or somebody like that, that'd kill her. The slammer, okay? It