‘Lanterns’ Episode 7 Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

The Ringer-Verse

The Midnight Boys provide an in-depth reaction to the penultimate episode of 'Lanterns', focusing on the psychological complexity of the Hal

Key takeaways

• The 'Halogram' serves as a narrative tool to present a version of Hal Jordan devoid of the trauma that defines his true self.
• Hosts debate whether the emotional weight of John's interaction with the construct is diminished by its lack of authenticity.

Main topics

• Lanterns Episode 7 Analysis
• Hal Jordan Origin Story

Notable quotes

The construct is supposed to give us the presence of Hal.

Conclusion

A high-energy exploration of character development and genre tropes th

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:05) Welcome to the Ringerverse. Need my hat. This is, of course, the Ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. We are Steve, the architect, almond, the builder, and tinker of things. Jomie, the explainer, a dinner on. You've got questions, he's got answers. Old man Van, he of the receding resurgent hairline. Coke baby Chuck, 24 karat closer. And we are known as the Midnight Boys. We'll be right back after this. Speaker 2 (0:41) I had like a gas attack. Jesus. Right in the middle of that? There was a gas attack in this Speaker 4 (0:48) episode. Speaker 2 (0:49) Oh. Speaker 1 (0:53) I Speaker 2 (0:53) like that. I'm feeling so great. I'm feeling so great. Follow us on socials. At the Midnight Boys Pod on Insta and TikTok. At Ringverse on Insta, Twitter, Facebook, and TikTok. Speaker 1 (1:05) Jomie. Are you going to put the hat on at some point? At some point, yeah. You're just going to have it right there. No, man. Social's going great, man. Again, thank you guys for rocking with us. It's going crazy, fellas. They're loving the Lanterns coverage. This is up, man. We only got one week left. Jomie, I've been looking Speaker 4 (1:20) at your shirt this entire time. Are you trying to look like Bear from Obsession? Is that the goal? Oh, shit. Speaker 2 (1:28) Bear was wearing the bowling shirts and stuff. Speaker 1 (1:30) That's crazy. Speaker 4 (1:31) Am I tripping? That looks like the Bear shirt. Why Speaker 1 (1:34) would you even put me and Bear in the same? Don't do me like that, man. I was just, I didn't know if it was, you got the fits. I was just wondering. I think Speaker 2 (1:41) it looks good. Thank you. Move to Speaker 1 (1:42) bowling shirts. Thank you. It's Speaker 2 (1:44) Nigeria colors. Speaker 1 (1:46) It's green and white, yeah. In that Nigeria color? Yeah. Why did you look at me like that? I can't say that? That's wrong? No, it's not wrong. I Speaker 2 (1:55) don't understand what you guys got going on, man. We're on YouTube. Like, comment, subscribe, share. You can watch every Midnight Boys and House of R episode on youtube.com backslash at ringerverse and also on Spotify. Programmer reminders. On Monday, House of R continues their lanterns coverage. On Wednesday, Ringiverse recommends it's back. You're special. On Friday, Buttmash gives their reactions to Star Wars Galactic Racer. Steve, what is that? Speaker 3 (2:22) It's probably one of my most anticipated games of the year. This is basically a follow-up to their Pod Racing game, and I got to see this at Summer Games Fest, and it looks incredible. Pod Racing game was amazing. Speaker 2 (2:33) Yeah, it's fun. I never played it. Speaker 3 (2:35) Wait, you never played the Speaker 2 (2:36) N64 Pod Speaker 4 (2:37) Racing game? I don't think so. Oh Speaker 1 (2:39) my Speaker 4 (2:39) God, Speaker 3 (2:39) it's one of the best arcade cabinets. I remember that because it looked like the Pod Racer. Mannequin? Oh my God. You haven't seen Speaker 1 (2:44) any of the new stuff? I mean, they dropped a trailer a couple months ago. It's like fun, Speaker 2 (2:49) man. Speaker 1 (2:50) There was one Star Wars video Speaker 2 (2:52) game that was on the N64. Rogue Squadron? I'm not sure. I played the shit out of it. But other than that, I can't say that I've been a big Star Wars video games guy. Speaker 3 (3:03) I think you Speaker 2 (3:03) might like Speaker 3 (3:05) Jedi Survivor. Fallen Jedi. So I played that. Speaker 2 (3:09) I played some of these games. Speaker 3 (3:11) But like... I don't know. Some of them were good. Some of them, not so much good. Zero Company. KOTOR. KOTOR, yeah. Speaker 2 (3:18) Man, Knights of the Old Republic. Rogue Squadron, none of that moved you? I mean, it's not that it didn't move me, but you guys have to understand. For the least. You guys, you guys have, oh, that's with the guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Star Killer. Star Killer. You guys have to understand that, like, my video game-ing. It's not as wide as you guys. Speaker 3 (3:38) I Speaker 2 (3:39) play video games, but it's mostly sports video games. And then one or two other video games outside of that. Marvel Speaker 3 (3:45) vs. Capcom. Marvel Speaker 2 (3:45) vs. Capcom. But I'm not as big of a gamer as you guys are. Speaker 3 (3:48) Safe. Ball and gun gamers over here? What happened? All Speaker 1 (3:52) right, Speaker 3 (3:52) let's have some respect. Not in a derogatory sense. Speaker 1 (3:55) That was derogatory. Ball and gun gamers. What's that? Speaker 3 (3:59) So you either play 2K, Madden, any sports games with a Speaker 1 (4:04) ball. Speaker 3 (4:04) Or Call of Duty. Or Call of Duty. battlefield anything with Speaker 1 (4:07) a gun. I Speaker 3 (4:07) don't play those Speaker 2 (4:08) shooters like that. I played Star Wars Battlefield, but I don't play those shooters like that. I play like, it's, I'm a ball Speaker 1 (4:15) and spider guy. Speaker 2 (4:16) Ball Speaker 1 (4:16) and Speaker 2 (4:16) spider? Ball and spider. Ball, look, man, sometimes I don't want to play that shit. How's that sound? That's fair. You know what I'm saying? I don't fuck that shit. But I'll play this game. I play the fucking Nazi, not the Nazi, the samurai game that you guys How did Speaker 1 (4:33) you mix those two things up? Yeah. They were Speaker 2 (4:35) on the same team Speaker 1 (4:36) at one point. Speaker 3 (4:37) Okay. Speaker 2 (4:39) How's that sound? How's that little dose of reality? How's that little dose of reality for you? Speaker 1 (4:44) Samurai was... We've been having a good day. Can we get to the show? How's that little dose of reality for you? Come Speaker 2 (4:49) on, man. How's that? They're on the same team. I remember that Ken Burns documentary. Well, look, things have changed, and we should respect that. Right. How's Speaker 4 (4:58) that Speaker 2 (4:58) feel? I mean, Speaker 4 (4:59) historically... Japan was getting their colonial shit on. They were Speaker 2 (5:04) fucked Speaker 4 (5:05) up. We saw Godzilla might as one. We know what it is. We got our Speaker 2 (5:10) history. We got Speaker 4 (5:11) our history from Speaker 2 (5:13) Godzilla. Hey, we got to apologize, man. We got our history. Fuck what you learned in school. We saw Godzilla might as Speaker 1 (5:22) one. On today's episode, Speaker 2 (5:25) we react to the penultimate episode of Lanterns. Now. Speaker 2 (5:31) We're going to let you guys in on something. We also interviewed series writers Vanessa Baden-Kelly and Justin Brick Gibson. And we're going to have that episode for you maybe a little later on this week. Maybe you guys get a little bit more than what you bargained for. A little bit more Midnight Boys. You can't have too much Midnight Boys. You know what I'm saying? Thank you Speaker 4 (5:51) for everybody running the fucking numbers up. Keep liking. Keep fucking subscribing. We're going to be here all year. We're going crazy, man. Speaker 2 (5:57) We love it. Okay. Before we get into the show, Steve, we're going to be spoiling stuff. So we need... to warn people about that. And we do that with a spoiler warning. Take it away. Speaker 1 (6:09) We're getting ready to talk about Speaker 2 (6:12) you're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. All right. Got to begin our reactions. Only way to do that is with the midnight manifest. Only person that can do that is Chuck Waggon. Chuck, take it away. All Speaker 4 (6:29) right. This is your. Lantern's Midnight Manifest for the penultimate episode directed by Geeta Van Sant Patel, written by Mundi Lindelof and King. We flash back to 1975 in the origin story of Hal Jordan. Jordan Sr. is a cocky test pilot with little respect for authority or stunting his son's own greatness. Hal's father tells him about the Jordan family curse and leaves his son with a key to a lockbox. In the present, the Halogram is suspicious of John digging his body up and refuses to open the large black box that real Hal left in storage until the Halogram speaks with Carrie to corroborate John's story. Halogram and John start to bond with the consciousness of Jordan, praising Stuart for his ability to maintain constructs without the ring on his finger. The Halogram finally meets Carrie, but after the emotional reunion admits to John that he doesn't trust the Sheriff. Hal opens the intergalactic black safe, which features a backpack, gun, and porter to another dimension. The portal takes John and Hal to the planet where Eitan's people died. While on the planet, Hal reveals that he comes from a long line of suicidal men and then saves John from his own fear gas that plagues the planet. And then, da-da-da, Sinestro returns. Speaker 1 (7:33) That has been Speaker 4 (7:33) your Midnight Manifest for the penultimate episode. Where I want to start with you, Van, is... Hal Jordan, to me, has one of the more iconic origin stories in the DC canon in terms of his father being a test pilot that crashes. Speaker 2 (7:51) And Speaker 4 (7:52) this episode tweaks it a little bit. How do you feel like they handled Hal's origin story? And does it kind of make, to me, this... added a layer of depth of why Kyle Chandler is playing this character in this specific bravado way. Speaker 2 (8:09) Yeah, he's trying to fill a hole that's left in his heart. And not just a hole that's left in his heart by his father, but a hole that is generational. That Hal does not seem to be able to escape, right? This entire framework is about the curses that we are given and how oftentimes those curses become comfort. Speaker 4 (8:28) Yep. Speaker 2 (8:28) And I thought they did a great job at that. The ball being sort of an analog for the ring and Speaker 1 (8:35) not Speaker 2 (8:35) really feeling like you want to give the thing up that makes you who you are. I'm the starting pitcher. I'm the one that has to finish the game because that's where my worth comes from. And so Hal being stuck on that, even as he's a child, you know it's not going to do anything but metastasize Speaker 1 (8:50) the Speaker 2 (8:51) older he gets. As far as what you're talking about with the tweaking, I have no problem with the changing of these origin stories. as long as it serves character, which I think this Speaker 4 (9:01) one Speaker 2 (9:01) does. As a former Speaker 4 (9:02) pitcher, do you feel like the coach deserved to get punched out? Oh my God, yes he did. Speaker 2 (9:08) I mean... No man on? Not really. Not really. Like, if you... He's such a no-hitter. Speaker 1 (9:17) No, he was almost a no-hitter. Almost a no-hitter. That's Speaker 2 (9:21) a Speaker 1 (9:21) very important game. It's a Speaker 2 (9:22) complete game. Yeah, Speaker 1 (9:23) but Speaker 2 (9:23) how close was he? He was one out. One out away. If they come and ask for the baseball, you get a baseball. You gotta get a baseball up. You gotta get a baseball. But Speaker 1 (9:30) I think that's the... I mean, it's a very simple but effective metaphor of him. Not wanting to give the ball up. He's literally right there, two outs away, complete game. I think the main thing that that opening bit serves is that Howell never had a shot. He was always going to end up like that, especially with his grandfather and his father, what they went through. But him being in the office with the coach and his dad, and he explains to his dad what the deal is, his dad goes, How many else you say there were? One out? No men on? And he turns to the coach, you're like, ah, it's cooked. How was always going to end up the grouchy, annoying person that he was going to be because that's how he grew up and his dad was riding with him the whole way. You know what happened to me in Speaker 2 (10:17) that situation? My dad would have yelled at me and the coach. Separate instances Speaker 3 (10:23) or at the same time? Speaker 2 (10:24) My dad would have been like, hey. When a coach say, get a ball up, get a ball up. That's the coach. All right? And then he'd have been like, hey, bitch, the fuck? You see my son out there dealing? You going to take the ball out of his hands? He the best you got. But that's not what Hal's father enabled him because he was still chasing his trauma. I thought it was an amazing way to book in the episode. Speaker 4 (10:48) I will say that's not how I thought it would go because usually I was like, oh. Are you giving the keys because you want your son to be like, hey, yo, don't let mama get the porn stash. Like, if I'm done, you got to take this out. Things that are Speaker 3 (11:02) passed down from grandfather to son to son. I Speaker 4 (11:07) mean, back then, the magazines were rare. Speaker 3 (11:09) Yeah. Speaker 1 (11:10) You know what I'm saying? Speaker 4 (11:11) These are, just Speaker 1 (11:12) don't get them dirty. It's not 2026. It's not just on the phone, you know? It's not like that. Speaker 2 (11:17) For the articles. For the articles. So, look, we get into the story here. We get back to Rushville, right? And we get Construct Hal. Construct Hal, who is such an interesting narrative device because he's free of a certain degree of the trauma that our Hal has. Speaker 3 (11:39) I thought this was very interesting and I thought, I was afraid that this episode would rob John and Hal. personally, of a sort of catharsis between the two of them. Like, I didn't want Hal to die. without having reconciled something with John. But then we have this artificial thing that essentially is Hal that is devoid of some sort of trauma or some sort of, like, burden that made him stop uploading his consciousness to keep him even a little bit more brighter and more optimistic. Because he compliments John. He is able to praise him. He's able to help and work with him more. And as amazingly as Kyle Chandler played this, I don't know. I still kind of feel iffy about knowing that this wasn't actually the real Hal that would have absolved himself with John in the first place. Well, the real Speaker 1 (12:44) Hal never would have done that. Speaker 3 (12:45) I know. But does that emotional weight carry over knowing that... that reconciliation comes from something that isn't real. I mean, I think that choice is phenomenal because I'm like, that is what Speaker 4 (12:58) most death is like. Right. It is very rare that you get to tie. your relationship with someone in a tight, neat bow, they usually go and it's sudden. And I think it just creates so much tension in the story where it's like, Jon knows that this is a construct, but this construct is giving him everything that he wanted from the real Hal. And it's just such a phenomenal thing. Like, I agree with you. There's the emotional thing of like, but I want real Hal back. But that just is a testament to the show. That I miss this character so much that even the construct is fucking with me in the same way it's fucking with Carrie and John. I think Speaker 2 (13:37) that there's a couple of things here. One is that the construct is supposed to give us the presence of Hal. That's very true. The construct is also supposed to give us a deeper look into Hal. Speaker 4 (13:51) A Speaker 2 (13:51) look into the fact that Hal was at one point somebody. that John could have been friends with. Hal was, at one point, somebody that would have made a decent mentor for John. Hal was, at one point, somebody who John would have been able to have a relationship with that was a little deeper. And the ring that everybody seems to be so fixated on and the being of a Green Lantern, which everyone seems to be so wrapped up in, that is partly what made Hal into the Hal that we saw. John is litigating what it means to be the Green Lantern, past, present, and future at every moment in this show. Now he has a blueprint to what being the Green Lantern did to someone. How is that going to change the way he does it? How is that going to change the way he looks at it? Right? And seeing somebody that we could have loved even more so than we already did love the hell that we had just reminds us that there's a price to all of this. And I think it kind of deepens our understanding. of what this world thinks being a hero is. I mean, I want to move to the Speaker 4 (15:02) conversation with Carrie because it's so interesting when she reveals what Hal actually thought of John. Oh. I was like, that was so heartbreaking where he's like, oh, it's like rooting for your favorite football team. That always loses and you watch it because you're a fan. Speaker 3 (15:19) That was so well written. Speaker 4 (15:20) It was so well written, but also during that moment, I started laughing when the hologram was like, yeah, I don't trust her. Because I'm like, yeah, she killed me. Easy. I was like, do we think that? Here's the thing. His gut's never Speaker 3 (15:32) been wrong before. Yeah, that's valid now. That is now absolutely on Speaker 4 (15:38) the table. Speaker 3 (15:38) Why did, Speaker 4 (15:38) because there was that moment when you see the key that they leave for the storage unit. He wasn't leaving no clue for old girl. Do you think? towards the end, Hal was a little bit like, hmm. Speaker 2 (15:50) Maybe Hal found out that the son is a Manhunter and she killed Hal to protect him. Speaker 4 (15:59) One thing that somebody brought up that I thought was interesting. Speaker 4 (16:05) It's snowing when they go to the field, but there's not snow on the ground the rest of the time. Speaker 2 (16:14) Yeah. Like, what is that? I have no clue. I'm not from no place with snow. Y'all tell me. You from Chicago. There's snow and then all of a sudden. Wait, am I snowing? No, Speaker 1 (16:24) it Speaker 2 (16:24) was snowing, but I just think maybe it's Speaker 1 (16:26) like somebody's sad it's raining. Speaker 3 (16:30) Right. They were playing a football game. Like, right after. They were doing the hat ceremony, and they're going to have a game right after. No, no, no. He's talking about when he finds his Speaker 1 (16:38) dead body. When they find the dead body. Speaker 3 (16:39) Yeah, yeah, Speaker 1 (16:40) yeah. Speaker 2 (16:40) How's Frozen out there? How's Frozen out there? Yeah, it's a little Speaker 1 (16:42) weird. Speaker 2 (16:42) It don't seem like it's that cold. I mean, also, I don't know how it, because they're wearing light jackets. Yeah. Every other time. They're wearing light. They are. They're wearing light jackets. I don't know if it gets, like, if it drops 35 degrees at night and it becomes snowy. Yeah. I don't know. You tell me. I'm not from this. I'm not from this tradition. You guys actually know this cold ass shit. I don't fuck with that dumb ass shit. Usually, Speaker 4 (17:05) like, the snow, that much snow would Speaker 3 (17:09) sniff. No, yeah, that would be noticeable. Yeah. There would be clumps of Speaker 4 (17:13) snow on the fucking sidewalks. Yeah. Everybody would be in parkas. But getting back to the, the hologram wasn't really fucking with Sheriff Carey. Like, he, I, cause. The hologram's like, I feel emotions. And I'm like, it don't seem like you do. He seemed very Speaker 1 (17:27) much like, yes, you are. I mean, him and Carrie don't have that kind of relationship that, you know, the real Hal and she did. But he did see what real Hal saw in her when she does the, you know, romantics don't say the romantic text. He's like, ah, I see the vision. Speaker 3 (17:43) You Speaker 1 (17:44) know, it's not me, but I could see why the real Hal would fall in love with you. Now, to your point, though, immediately after that, he was like, she did it. Do you think Speaker 2 (17:53) that he wanted to meet her so badly because he wanted to see who Hal was in love with or because he wanted to sniff around and see if she had something to do with it? Forking Speaker 1 (18:03) all those does. Speaker 2 (18:04) Yeah. I think he was also distrusting of John a little Speaker 4 (18:06) bit. He was also a little bit like, hmm, let me see who else was close to me. But if we bring it back to the previous episode, it gives credence to the fact that Hal was like, do not let anybody know. that we had this meeting. Who is the person on the board that they shared a lot of screen time with? Right. Is Carey. So I have to believe that in life, to your point, Hal figured out something and he's like, no one besides you can know this. Speaker 2 (18:40) So can we go to the hat ceremony real quick? Right. So I have two, I have a couple of things here. All right. The floor is yours. Well, number one, Speaker 2 (18:52) The offensive line. All right, man. Speaker 1 (18:55) That Speaker 2 (18:55) is Speaker 4 (18:56) not. Speaker 1 (18:57) All Speaker 2 (18:57) right, Speaker 4 (18:57) man. How could Speaker 1 (18:58) he Speaker 4 (18:58) not roll? Speaker 1 (18:59) I Speaker 2 (19:00) thought about it. I had the same thought. I had Speaker 1 (19:01) the Speaker 2 (19:01) same Speaker 1 (19:01) thought. Speaker 2 (19:02) I'm sorry, guys. I wish I should have asked Vanessa and Justin about this. I don't know what the fuck is going on, but they in Nebraska. Is there no corn for these corn fed boys? That's the future, man. That could have been the basketball team. He brought his offensive line out there. I was expecting to see some hogs. How is he upright? Speaker 1 (19:25) How Speaker 2 (19:26) is he upright? Because he got the Speaker 1 (19:27) speed, you know what I'm saying? He on that line. He running for his life. He's Speaker 2 (19:31) just out as soon as they hike the ball. He's gone. Number one. Number two, we have to check in with some of the schools that we said would be on there. From what I could see, it was Michigan, Navy, and Nebraska. There was another red hat on there. And Speaker 1 (19:44) we got to apologize to Steve and Lauren. That looked like Florida State. You think so? I didn't clock for Florida State, Speaker 3 (19:50) but they didn't show like a logo logo. But they didn't Speaker 1 (19:52) show that hat. I think that was SC. Nah, because it was. It was like a darker red. It was a darker red, and it looked like the Seminole in there. Because I watched, I went back like, because again, I was last week, I was like, ain't no way you're going to Florida State, bro. I look at that hat, and I was like, hold on. I went back like three or four times. I did the shout out to the Prestige TV podcast. Did my freeze frame it, did my pause it, and I was like. You can't really make out that last one. You definitely can make out Michigan, Navy, Nebraska. But the last one you can't really make out. But it looked to me like Florida State. What is the Speaker 4 (20:26) etiquette of an entire fucking town in school coming to see which hat you're going