‘Lanterns’ Episode 5 Instant Reactions | Midnight Boys
The Ringer-Verse
The Midnight Boys return with special guest Chris Ryan to react to the intense twists in 'Lanterns' Episode 5, including the shocking Manhun
Key takeaways
- The Manhunter reveal was a pivotal moment that reshaped audience understanding of the series' mythology.
- John's arc as 'The One' suggests deeper cosmic significance tied to the Green Lantern mythos.
Main topics
- Manhunter reveal in Episode 5
- John's identity as 'The One'
Notable quotes
'This episode felt very Ozark. Damon Lindelof did Watchmen, Leftovers, Lost.'
Conclusion
The Midnight Boys and Chris Ryan conclude their episode with a mix of emotional reflection
Transcript preview
Speaker 2 (0:17) Welcome into the Ringerverse. This is, of course, the Ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. We are Steve, the architect, all in the builder and tinkerer of things. Jomie, the explainer, a dinner on. You've got questions, he's got answers. Old man Van, he of the receding resurgent hairline. And sitting in today, Chris C.R. Ryan, the prince of the Ringer. Together we are known as the Midnight Boys. We'll be right back after this. Speaker 2 (0:50) Chris, that was a good pew-pew. Thanks, brother. I was wondering. I was wondering if you're going to get involved. If I was Speaker 4 (0:54) going Speaker 2 (0:54) to do anything? Speaker 4 (0:55) Look, I'm glad it's the nexus of fandom because I'm a fan of you guys. Wow. I'm curious why I got drafted to fill in for Chuck this week. Speaker 2 (1:05) You guys want to answer? Speaker 1 (1:07) First name on the board? First name on the board. Absolutely. Yeah, Speaker 2 (1:10) 100%. I mean, you know what's happening at the company, right? You know what's happening. Okay. All right. So, follow us on socials. At the Midnight Post spot on Insta and TikTok. At Ringiverse on Insta, Twitter, Facebook, and TikTok. Jomie. Speaker 1 (1:25) I'm actually glad you brought that up because it's a really important conversation that we've been having on this pod for a minute. Van came out and said that he deserves. to be third chair on the big picture. He Speaker 2 (1:37) did Speaker 1 (1:37) say that. That's true. Speaker 2 (1:38) And Speaker 1 (1:38) you, most people would claim that you are the leader in the clubhouse. Then it's Tracy Letts and Van is in the mix somewhere. Van's Speaker 4 (1:47) in the mix. Speaker 1 (1:48) Would you respond to his claim for third chair? I think Speaker 4 (1:51) sooner or later, the third chairs need to talk about whether there's like a different stage for us to be on. You know, why are we... Why are we putting all of our effort into being the third chair of somebody else's pod? I like this. Why are we maybe teasing three chairs? You know what I mean? Like you, me, Tracy. Three chairs. Our own pod. And then we, we actually go at them. The people are looking for a replacement for Comptown. They've been Speaker 2 (2:19) talking about it. We Speaker 4 (2:21) do that. Speaker 2 (2:22) But I say we do it even more direct. I say they drop. a conversation about the movie and then we drop one two hours after. There you go. Speaker 3 (2:30) Exactly. Just some Drake Kendrick type shit. That's right. A lot of Speaker 2 (2:34) subliminals in Speaker 4 (2:34) there. Speaker 2 (2:35) It's like, oh, you know, there's another podcast that's called The End of Endgame, Blue Bar. If you're not going to get that on here on three watch shares. The Speaker 4 (2:43) big picture is a big Speaker 2 (2:43) tent. I Speaker 4 (2:44) think there's room for everybody to hang out and talk about movies. I'll tell you something. Here's Speaker 2 (2:47) the Speaker 4 (2:47) deal. This Speaker 2 (2:48) is what I liked about Speaker 4 (2:49) it. That was just... My Speaker 2 (2:49) James Tallarico. I get it. You came back there like, Speaker 1 (2:52) wow. Speaker 2 (2:53) What I liked about it is that you Speaker 1 (2:55) challenged the establishment. Speaker 2 (2:56) Yes. You challenged the establishment, but you also challenged the establishment because you got to give it to Tracy. Tracy challenged the establishment. Speaker 1 (3:03) Yeah. Yeah. All right. We're on YouTube. Like, Speaker 2 (3:05) comment, subscribe, share. You can watch every Midnight Boys and House of Art episode on YouTube.com backslash at Ringiverse and also on Spotify. Programming reminders! On Monday, House of R continues their Lanterns coverage. Lanterns is being very good to us. It's a gift that keeps on giving over here on the Ringverse. Have you experienced this on the watch as well? Speaker 4 (3:21) Yes. Speaker 1 (3:21) If Speaker 4 (3:21) anything, I think we have undercovered Lanterns. A couple of times there have been other shows or events that have forced us to be like, we have 10, 15 minutes for an episode. I'll tell you the truth, though. I feel like I'm coming at Lanterns from a little bit of a deficit when it comes to my knowledge, my ball knowledge. I'm not a DC guy, right? I'm more of like a Marvel dude, if I'm anything. And so my relationship to the show is kind of in the Tenet zone, where it's just like, don't overthink it, just feel it, you know? Speaker 1 (3:52) Yeah, Speaker 4 (3:53) that's my guy. So, I mean, the show makes no fucking sense to you. Well, I'm actually quite happy to be here today, because this episode in particular, I found very moving and somewhat confusing. Oh, Speaker 2 (4:04) great. We'll get into that entire thing. Okay, you know what? Before we get into that, just on that. on that note, this show, even the DC stuff might be a little out of your depth, but as far as like the show show of it, this is CR coding. Speaker 4 (4:19) Oh yeah. It's Chris Mundy who did Ozark. The very first scene of this episode felt very Ozark. Damon Lindelof did Watchmen Leftovers Lost. Oh Speaker 3 (4:27) yeah. Speaker 4 (4:27) And Tom King, who I know is like a great comics writer. So it's not, it's all, it is also True Detective. with a fucking Speaker 2 (4:35) super ring. So I Speaker 4 (4:36) get it. Speaker 2 (4:36) Like, it's Speaker 4 (4:37) awesome. Speaker 2 (4:37) In that regard, do you think that a lot of people who aren't into comics, is that why the show you feel like is reverberating so much? Because people can enter the show. You don't have to give a fuck about the Green Lanterns. I think you can be, Speaker 4 (4:46) it is one of the few things I've seen achieve that, like, equilibrium of, like, it will satisfy people who have been reading DC for decades. It will satisfy people who are like, what is on Sunday night on HBO? Let's hold Speaker 2 (4:58) that because I got something to Speaker 4 (4:59) say. I have a bold Speaker 2 (5:00) proclamation to make. Bold proclamation to make later on. Okay. On Friday, Bud Mash gives their reactions to Resident Evil, the movie, the Resident Evil movie, which, gotta be honest with you guys, was such a gigantic announcement, and I feel like it's kind of flying under the radar since everything's... I know that this movie's coming out in a couple weeks, right? Yeah, next week. Right. Speaker 1 (5:20) I kind Speaker 2 (5:21) of feel like we raced here. This is a big... fucking deal. It's Speaker 1 (5:25) been a crazy summer. Speaker 2 (5:26) It's a crazy summer, Speaker 3 (5:27) but this was announced late and nobody's really seen it or there's been no real word of mouth about it. The word Speaker 4 (5:34) of Speaker 3 (5:34) mouth is Speaker 4 (5:35) very good. Speaker 3 (5:35) It Speaker 4 (5:36) would have Speaker 2 (5:36) to be. There's always no way he can miss, but it's interesting that they're doing the Resident Evil title as if it's your... standard horror movie that gets released wide but then sneaks up on everyone because the word of mouth is so good. They didn't lean into, oh, this is a video game movie. Interesting. Well, Speaker 1 (5:53) I mean, because it is a video game movie, right? It is based on Resident Evil, but it's not like Leon. It's not based off the game game itself or the characters from the game show. So it's kind of a little different in that regard. And also, an update on Ring of Quest. Steve. Speaker 3 (6:09) Yes. First of all, thank you all. To all who watched and enjoyed the latest episodes, it was a privilege to get to do it again, and we're very, very excited to do more. So we had two come out in sequence of a week or so, and we're going to be shooting a little bit more at the end of the year, and we're going to be having some more come out this year. So look forward to that. D Speaker 2 (6:31) &D Speaker 3 (6:31) on your Speaker 2 (6:32) motherfucking ass, bitch! On today's episode, we react to the fifth episode of Lanterns. The fifth episode. Which I think, I'm just going to let you guys know, it's Speaker 1 (6:44) a Speaker 2 (6:44) masterpiece. I fucking Speaker 1 (6:45) loved it. Speaker 2 (6:45) I loved it. All right, but we're going to be spoiling the show, spoiling everything that happened in this show, everything that happened in past shows. We're also going to be spoiling stuff that has happened in the comic books, all kinds of different stuff. Spoiling Landers, Green Landers, fucking Ryan Reynolds, whatever the fuck you guys want, we're going to spoil it all. Steve? Speaker 1 (7:03) We're getting ready to Speaker 2 (7:04) talk about Landers. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are coming. All right, to begin our reactions, guys, this is about to be a fucking adventure. To begin our reactions, because Charles is not here. Charles is not here. Charles, our fucking leader, is not here. Charcles. We once again bring you the Midnight Manifest. Is he going to tell you all you need to know or are you going to get all of it? I'll try. Jomie, the explainer is going to explain this show Speaker 1 (7:45) to you. Jomie, take it away. All right. This is Lanterns, Episode 5, directed by Greta Van... Vasant Patel and written by Justin Britt Gibson. We start in 2007. Carrie's car breaks down in Rushville while she's on the run and when the Gotham goons catch up to her, Zoe saves her life in exchange for her loyalty. We'll get back to that later. Fast forward to 2016, Hal tells John that he crashed the car in order to get him off the board, you know, with him being a snitch and everything. Hal then meets with Anton and the aliens from episode 2 and convinces them that the Manhunter is making so he can apprehend Zoe by himself. Speaking of Zoe, she lets John get blown up and explains her plan while offering a similar deal that she offered to Carrie in 2007. She heals John's wounds and then puts her plan in motion. Zoe starts blowing up Rushville to lure out Hal and deplete his ring while John escapes the hospital. She's making that as a distraction, but Anton sees right through him and kills him. Hal gets her cornered, but she escapes. Hal goes back to the motel where John is waiting for him. As they're duking it out, Zoe blows up the motel with another one of her suborbital lasers. When the dust settles, she finds Hal laying in the rubble. But where's John? He's perched up in a sniper's nest and one-shots Zoe with tears in his eyes. He goes back to take the evidence of her death with the heart and confirmation that she is a Manhunter, takes the ring and the lantern from Hal, and goes to meet the Guardian. But instead of taking the oath and becoming the Green Lantern, John leaves the ring with the Guardian and walks out. And that should mean I manifest for episode five of Lanterns. Speaker 2 (9:11) I'm going to say yes to that. I'm going to say yes to that. Zoe doesn't matter. Speaker 1 (9:16) It doesn't matter. I'm Speaker 2 (9:17) going Speaker 1 (9:17) to say yes to this. No Charles. Hey, you fucking held it down. No, no, no. Nice job, man. Speaker 2 (9:22) Held it down. Speaker 1 (9:23) No self-deprecation. Speaker 2 (9:24) You explained the shit out of that, Jomie. I did what I could. Doing your thing. All right, we're going to start the show in a different way this time. Let's go to CR's casual corner. Okay. You said that you were confused. That's why I just Speaker 4 (9:35) wore a sweatshirt Speaker 2 (9:35) today. Speaker 4 (9:36) I was like, let's keep it cash. Let's keep it Speaker 2 (9:37) cash. What were you confused about in this episode? I Speaker 4 (9:39) think I was a little bit confused about the sacrificing of the town. by both John and Zoe. So John is essentially looking, I'm sorry, not John, Hal and Zoe. Hal is looking at this as his opportunity to save his own job. I think I understand that part, right? So he is like, I am going to misdirect Anton, I'm going to misdirect John, and then I get the prize, which is bringing the last Manhunter back to the Guardians lifetime contract Shohei Otani, right? Zoe, who has essentially developed a tender loving cult among the people of Nebraska here because she has gone around saving people's lives in various ways, then sacrifices all these people to deplete John's ring, right? Like you said, so that Speaker 2 (10:27) she can. What? Like, what's the endgame for her? So I had this same question. And I actually had to ask Kalika this. So she knows that they're eventually coming for her. She knows that they're eventually coming for her. So she's been Speaker 4 (10:46) training these people for Speaker 2 (10:47) decades to Speaker 4 (10:47) do that. Speaker 2 (10:47) She's Speaker 4 (10:47) been Speaker 2 (10:47) training these people for this. This, she believes, if she can destroy the... If she can defeat this Green Lantern and destroy this alien foe, She believes that this will get her safety in some kind of way. That after this, there'll be either a new Green Lantern, because she also makes the deal with Jon Stewart, and that he won't hunt her anymore because he'll be under the same deal that the rest of the town is under, or that she'll make such a mess that the aliens that were coming for her will leave her alone. Speaker 3 (11:19) So Speaker 2 (11:20) I think her thing is to end it now. Now, I don't know, and this is an interesting part of it, I don't know, and you guys can check my work on that, I don't know... How she would have known that when the Guardians eventually sent the lanterns at her, that there would be the opportunity to corrupt or swing a younger lantern that would then replace the older lantern and give her a way out of that. That is the only thing that I, because a plan to beat the lanterns and never have them come back. would either have to like, you'd either have to kill all the lanterns or you'd have to kill the Earth lantern or you'd have to know that there was some deal or maybe she was going to use Hal. She was going to give Hal that same deal. Speaker 1 (12:03) Well, if I recall correctly, nobody knew that she was on Earth. It wasn't until the aliens started dying in episode one at the football game that we were like, okay, that Hal realized like there's a Manhunter. Those were Anton's guys. Yeah. Those are Anton's guys, right? This Speaker 4 (12:18) alien race. And we do find out also, and we could just mention things in the episode. We do find out that Anton and Zoe had children together. Speaker 2 (12:28) Well, Anton was, Zoe's a manhunter. Anton was one of the first people that she gave this deal to. Yeah. Speaker 4 (12:35) And then obviously did to them what she did to the people. What she did to the people. Exactly. Same thing. Speaker 1 (12:41) I think her manipulating John. was just a stroke of genius in the moment. In Speaker 2 (12:46) the Speaker 1 (12:46) moment. It was just something like, boom, I can do this. Remember, Anton says part of the Manhunter's thing is to go and lay with the most powerful person in order to assume power. And so when he's like, Macon is the bad guy, and he's like, so you're saying that you were sleeping with... with Megan. He's like, Speaker 3 (13:06) yeah, Speaker 1 (13:06) you know. That was a great Speaker 3 (13:08) line from Hal being like, you know, you've been all over the galaxy. It's not on purpose. It's about an opportunity. I wanted to dap him up right there. Speaker 2 (13:15) Oh. Speaker 4 (13:16) Oh, okay. That's real. Speaker 2 (13:18) I'm like my guy. That's real woke for Jim. You see Speaker 1 (13:21) some Speaker 2 (13:21) shit you never even thought of before up there. All right. Let's start back at the beginning then because I think a lot of people had that question, by the way. She's like blowing up the whole time. I'm like, what the fuck is she blowing up the whole town for? And she's blowing up the whole town to deplete the ring, but also these people, just like Megan. knew that this number was getting called. Like, Speaker 4 (13:36) theoretically, I guess the other thing I don't know, is there any limits to Manhunter's power? Does it have to be within the realm of the town that they've colonized? Could she have just gone to Omaha and started blowing stuff up? And then like Hal's going to have to come here because his oath is to save people or protect people. I Speaker 3 (13:54) think they've kind of laid the groundwork of that because like also to kind of like constrict the actual like scale of the show to make the manhooders be like they have to start from like the smallest and most like desolate parts of a society in order for it to grow. Sure. Which is a good metaphor. And Speaker 2 (14:07) that Speaker 3 (14:07) was her outsider. Exactly. But you also want to Speaker 2 (14:10) maintain some kind of control, right? If you're doing it in Omaha, then the FBI. No, no, no. I'm not saying she Speaker 4 (14:14) should brainwash the people of Omaha or or or. have them all signed this contract with her. I'm saying she could have had, this destruction could have happened anywhere on earth. You could use the suborder of lasers anywhere. But Speaker 2 (14:25) my point is, if you go and you do it in Los Angeles, or if you go and you do it in some gigantic place. Lioness team comes for you. Lioness team comes for Speaker 4 (14:33) you. Speaker 2 (14:34) The Speaker 1 (14:34) response Speaker 2 (14:34) is going to be crazy. This is something she can relatively. Speaker 2 (14:39) control. Speaker 4 (14:40) Yeah. And like she can know everybody. And she had all the Rube Goldberg machines like with the water tower and everything. Right. So let's Speaker 2 (14:47) start at the beginning. This was very Ozark. The DNA of this scene was all over. Ozark's DNA, should I say, is all in this scene. We have Carrie escaping Gotham. And we see in that her Faustian bargain. Almost not Faustian though. Faust doesn't really save you, right? The devil doesn't really save you. In that, I thought this thing was genius for two reasons. Number one, just a little bit of a narrative Easter egg to our Gotham. The fact that this is where the fucking criminal, it's a place that you will run away from. It's a place that you would put yourself in this, whatever this wit pro type of situation she was looking for, this personal wit pro. And that she looked like she really wanted to leave it behind. So it's very important for world building. It's a good world building scene. Also, Also a scene to where it both built intrigue and answered some questions because in the episode before we were wondering if Zoe was really the Manhunter and they go right away. She's really the Manhunter, but that doesn't end the mysteries or the questions. And then it propels the episode forward. Right. Speaker 3 (15:52) And I think we can get into our like Manhunter projections later on. But like to me, I think that the Manhunter mystery is still. Speaker 3 (15:59) relatively unsolved as to what we have another timeline now to arc through. Speaker 1 (16:04) It's the most solved thing that we've ever been solved. I agree with Steve. You guys are not serious. Speaker 3 (16:08) No, I am serious. We have a whole nother, who killed Hal Jordan? Why is the ring gone? Like, there's Speaker 1 (16:12) a Speaker 3 (16:12) whole set of questions to answer Speaker 2 (16:14) for. Speaker 3 (16:14) We'll get to it Speaker 2 (16:15) later. I think we know who Manhunter A is. Speaker 3 (16:17) Yeah, but we don't know what else left in the wake. I Speaker 2 (16:19) agree with Speaker 1 (16:19) Steve. I think there could be a second Manhunter, right? I'm not saying it's not above the realm of possibility. But I am saying that it would be a stretch because she says in the episode, it was just me. I was the only one that survived. They blew everybody else except for me. I'm the last one. And then we see her die. And so, I mean, you could— I think the real thing is y'all keep thinking the boy is the Manhunter, the all-state varsity quarterback. Leave that boy alone. He just want to throw touchdowns, man. He don't want to be killing. I'm Speaker 2 (16:51) not putting him Speaker 1 (16:51) past him. He don't want to be conquering words. Speaker 4 (16:54) I think that that was the last Manhunter, but I think the bigger reveal was that the Manhunter was a Guardians creation. That the Guardians were like, we basically started this whole thing. We tried to flip a switch to turn it off. And this is, we've made mistakes. So, like, is there going to be any accountability for them? Right? Or are they such supreme and superior beings? I actually don't know the answer to this question. Outside of justice. Like, do you know what I'm saying? I do. Speaker 2 (17:24) Yeah. Now, from comics canon, that wasn't a reveal. That the Guardians created the Manhunters. That's known. That's Speaker 4 (17:31) known. Speaker 2 (17:31) So from comics canon, that wasn't a reveal. I don't want to jump too far ahead because I want to talk about this. But I have to. I'm sorry. There's something that is said in the show. Speaker 2 (17:43) When Carrie says, I owe her, she gave me a gift, I think people think that she's talking about the freedom after she ran away from the guys in Gotham. I don't think that's what she's talking about. I think she's talking about her son. A miracle. Yeah. She said she gave me something, she gave me a miracle. I don't think that she's talking about the freedom, the run. I think she's talking about her son. I think that's definitely like... Speaker 2 (18:13) I would not bet against that. Speaker 4 (18:16) And Speaker 2 (18:16) I Speaker 4 (18:16) don't know, but I did like the fact, first of all, it's just really good writing when you're like, this entire show has been about taking the ring off of somebody's finger. Where do you open this episode with Carrie's finger? You know what I mean? These are guys, and Justin Brick Gibson worked with Damon on the Rey movie that never went for Star Wars. He is like an accomplished screenwriter. He's very good. The guys in the... top of the room are very good. They're just going to sprinkle this show with stuff. It's a faint, it's a misdirect. To Steve's point when he was talking about like, what do we have to find out next and like how much we, the remaining mysteries. One of the things that's a hallmark of Lindelof's stuff is like, the thing you think is going to be in the finale or two seasons from now, I'm going to handle that in the third episode. Yeah. This is Speaker 3 (19:03) the finale of a show that was only about Nebraska. Yes. But now we have... three more episodes to figure out a whole nother, we got a whole nother show's worth of stuff. The thing Speaker 2 (19:13) about the show is we all thought it was the origin story of a Green Lantern. It's not about that. It's really not about that. And Lindelof does this every time. Every time I think I know what the show is about, the show is not about that. Did I expect for John to at some point reject the Green Lantern Corps as it exists right now? Certainly. I expected that. But what I did not expect was the death of Zoe in this episode, the death of the Manhunter. I didn't expect them to take characters off the board and then leave more story on the board with... Was it three episodes left? Yeah, Speaker 1 (19:48) you Speaker 2 (19:48) think Speaker 1 (19:48) this is like a penultimate episode. Right. Maybe in a finale. If we do this in episode five, we still got so much game left to figure out, like, if there is a second Manhunter. They got eight of these, Speaker 4 (19:58) right? Yeah. Or Speaker 1 (19:59) how, like, obviously, John said, I'm not taking the ring. So then how did Guy get it? You know, and how Speaker 2 (20:05) does he Speaker 1 (20:05) fit into the story? There's so much stuff on the table, and I can't wait to see what happens next. Okay, Speaker 2 (20:09) so let's go back a little bit. So we come out of that, and... We're back with Hal and John. Hal is almost getting, in this show, a little bit drowned. His character's almost getting a little bit drowned and overshadowed. He still has some tricks up his sleeve. Speaker 1 (20:27) The Speaker 2 (20:27) trick that he pulls with Anton. I don't think Anton ever really believed him. I just think he had to go check it out. But it feels like right now, Hal Jordan is completely overwhelmed by the depth and the scope of what's happening in Rushville. I Speaker 1 (20:40) don't think he's overwhelmed, but I do think... I was disappointed in Hal. I'm not going to lie to you. Because we saw what happened in episode four, and Sinestro's like, here's what you do. You make the kid look silly. You kill the Manhunter. You come back to Aura. You're a hero. And I'm like, man, how better than that, man? How smart than that, man? How am I going to fall for that? Speaker 4 (21:00) His mission is superficial. So it's going to feel like he is starting to feel like a hollow character because he's not... There's no meaning to it. Speaker 3 (21:08) He's not trying to act out his oath. He's trying Speaker 4 (21:09) to act out... I need to have job security. Speaker 3 (21:12) That's the most Speaker 4 (21:13) important thing. All these people are getting vaporized. There are bombs going off. There, you know, all this stuff is happening. I've got this, this, this kid who's training with me. I'm basically like gaslighting him into like, you know, God knows what. And what he's doing is only trying to keep that Speaker 2 (21:30) ring. But that makes it interesting to me that he lied to Anton. He lied to him. He knew that Zoe was the Manhunter. He could have given Zoe, he could have made an actual deal. He could have made an actual deal to turn over the actual Manhunter that would have probably fucked John too because that motherfucker is laying there at that point or some point right after that with no skin on his body. Burning John Stewart alive in this show is so interesting. Like they burned a man alive. He went through a lot. So I'm still wondering because you're right. Hal's mission is shallow, but John's is too. They're both trying to satisfy a Speaker 4 (22:07) personal goal when their whole deal should be for a collective