‘Pacific Heights’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Kyle Brandt

The Rewatchables - The Ringer

Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Kyle Brandt dive into 'Pacific Heights,' a 1990 thriller starring Michael Keaton as an obsessive landlord. The hosts dissect its cult status, real estate horror themes, and Keaton’s post-Bat

Key takeaways

• Keaton's dark turn after Batman defined his career

Transcript preview

The Watchables is brought to by the Ringer Podcast Network where you can find Chris Ryan, the one and only. That's me. The Watch, World Cup, a lot of World Cup going on right now. I don't know when this is running, but the World Cup will still be going. Okay, then I am still doing the Adam Freeland show colon the beautiful pod where we talk about the World Cup. Talk about soccer. Uh-huh. Yeah, hopefully by the time people hear this, USA will still be alive. Let's hope. Let's hope. We'll be like, holy shit, we got through the groups. Kyle Brant's here. Hey, Bill. You said you have an announcement. What do you got? I do. I have an announcement that affects us all. I was listening to the mailbag episode of this very podcast. Oh God. And there was a gentleman who had a grievance with you and Meade Bill. And then in the wake of that grievance, Chris Ryan had a solution to the grievance, and we even have the clip, if you wouldn't mind Craig Horback, to choose the Storm Family portrait as the piece of memorabilia to keep from heart to kill in 1990. It's seen early in the movie right before Felicia Storm was brutally murdered during Fort Worth Mason and before their son Sunny escapes, see attached as Penance please do an episode on Deadly Ground. So he sent a picture and this is the Storm Family's photo. I didn't notice it. I apologize. I know Kyle apologizes as well. This is amazing. I can't believe they did this. I think. To make up for this you should get those made into t-shirts and wear them the next time you in crime. Oh no. I feel like Kyle is crazy enough and there's no football right now that he's gonna show up on a rewatchables with the Storm Family Portrait on there. We appreciate the feedback. We listen. We're always trying to pay attention anytime I can make the show better and ladies and gentlemen I'm thrilled to tell you we got him. We got him. We got him. We got him. We got him. We got him. We got him. We got him. We got him. We got We got the unironically named Sunny Storm and we got Mason Storm who is mean mugging the artist who is painting a family portrait. Yeah, you just love to see it and guys I got him coming your way too. I'm so thrilled that I have this. It's also Mason Storm watching himself commit to foreplay with his wife, you know, like it's a stunning medit textual commentary on family and sexuality in it and now you have it as a t-shirt. It's a t-shirt. This is a six-person pod. So they're going to be joining us for Pacific Heights, Mason Storm to talk real estate. We got it! So is that supposed to be Sharon Stone? No, it's Felicia Storm. I don't think it's Sharon Stone. Oh yeah, yeah, she was in the other one. Great looking wife who got a shotgun to death in the first act. Jesus. Unbelievable stuff, Kyle. I don't know. It's gonna be hard for me to concentrate on the podcast. I know. And yet. And yet, Pacific Heights is coming up next. presented by Fandel Predicts. You can predict the summer soccer showcase with Fandel Predicts from the opening game to the final whistle stay locked and sign up now for your $25 bonus on Fandel Predicts go to Fandel.com slash predicts to sign up offered by Fandel Prediction Markets LLC a registered futures commission merchant 18 plus restriction supply see terms at Fandel.com slash predicts slash bonus. Offer. I'm going to. All right, I don't know if it's from hell month or from hell summer. We'll see this might run in July, so you are for all we know. The USA might be in the Final Four by the time this is... It can happen. But I told Kyle Brant the premise. I told him some of the movies. he said when Pacific Heights is ready. Yes, I'm there. Why? What is it about this movie? Well, Bill, I don't know whether you realize this or not. You referenced this movie over the years on this pod here and there. Just connected to Keaton, connected to this, that it'll come up and every time you do, I was like, oh, it'd be great to do a Pacific Heights pod. And then recently you were listing the movies for for Howe month. And the second you said Pacific Heights, CR goes, oh, that's the one I want to do. And every one I want to do. And every time you want to do. And every time you do. And, because of course, because of course, me it's just the rare, rare Zillow thriller. You don't see a lot in that genre and I remember it making a big impression on me as a kid despite having no knowledge of real estate law or renters rights and I think it's because it was fully evil Michael Keaton immediately in the wake of Batman he decides to do dark money pit and I just remember thinking that was so cool and I loved this movie and I don't know how big the audience is but every time it hits for me and the rewatch great. This is a crazy one that was on cable constantly. When I turn this on to rewatch it, I was like, I kind of don't need to do this. I have this movie committed to memory. I remember so many nuances of Keaton's performance specifically. Yeah. Who's kind of in this movie like Hannibal Lecter? Were you gonna play with a razor blade during this pot? Or no? Just kind of move it around. I let some roaches out in the house. You know, but you know this one has been kind of lost to history a little bit. I don't even know. not constantly on it. I don't think it's had any kind of like critical real evaluation but it is a rollicking you know what is it a hundred minute long throw ride tenant from hell. New York Times described it as an eviction thriller yeah. Mm. Which I think it might be the only one of its kind. I saw this in the theater. It's a great date movie. It's both scary and not scary at all. I watched it with my wife this weekend. She loved it. It's incredibly fun to make fun to make fun of Matthew Modine, who will get into with a lot of thoughts, but some stuff I like, tremendous San Francisco movie. We talked about this during the Basic Instinct Pod. This like early 90s, San Francisco. Great job. You can see Alcatraz at one point. It's Potero Hill. It's Potero Hill, the corner of 19th in Texas, so it's not in Pacific Heights. movie, it's right, right as this from hell thing is taken off. We talked about the peaks 92, but fatal attraction lays the tea leaves or something like this. And then, as Kyle pointed out, kind of a tremendous, I learned something movie. Mm-hmm. I didn't know anything about tenant rights, evictions, what the laws were. Yeah. What I could get away with when I was a tenant someday? Once you're in, man. This is like the main this of the movie. Did they take money from you deposit? Nope. Well, you're still in. You're good. Knock yourself out. I think California has more lenient tenant rights than other states, but I did later in my life like when I was in my late teens early 20s. I lived in a house in Boston where the landlord died and we just stopped paying rent. Wow. For like a full year and then the widow was like, what's up with you guys? Like you haven't paid rent in a year and we were like nobody asked. You know, you know. where it was going to be impossible to get us out. And that widow was bankrupted because these brat kids didn't pay her dead husbands rent. Jesus, you are. Just skating, no big deal. That's like better than a legal cable. That's incredible. Well, free rent. To that point though, like what I watched it now as an adult, what freaks me out is like I'm not afraid of Freddie Krueger. I'm not afraid of going in a dark basement. I'm terrified of systems that I'm terrified of and that the teeth of bureaucracy sink in, whether it's HOA, IRS, whatever it is, getting its teeth into me and I can't protect my family, especially since in this movie the couple, they throw it all in on this house. Like the great American dream, this is our future, it's an investment, and it's being taken from them. Really relatable and very, very scary in a way that like a slasher movie is not. And also, there's very few movies that shape your perspective completely. on the carder-hays side or you could be on the mowdine and mow-griphus side but there are people who are on the Carter-hays side well just like I don't have enough money to pull off renting this place but I'm in and I'm just gonna follow like that's like the worst case scenario right yeah this is like a pretty evil guy but there's been I remember like we when I lived in Charleston I got six months left for Pacific Heights. There's a whole process here. We worked it out with the landlord, but you know, you kind of put the chest out. It's like, you think you're better than me. We can't have a body. And what's nuts is that is that moment when after Carter Hayes gets beat up and the cop comes and the cop holds like a legal class right there on the sidewalk and where Drake is like, he's got no right to be here. And the cop's like, when he's in. He's got rights and he's just schooling mowdine's get a lawyer kid that's the crux of the movie and by the way Modine when we get to the the overacting award like mowdine goes five different times oh my god and considering the fact that he's going up against Keaton here who's just like throwing a hundred and three he's Mizrawski at the end of this game yeah I saw him live on Friday night you went to that game yeah I was amazing When you, what happened after you left the real world in Chicago? Did you have a place to go or did you have to move back home? No, I almost immediately moved to Franklin Avenue at the base of Runyon Canyon, like by the Magic Hotel, like right there I got an apartment on like, Mademoiselle and Lebrayo. Yeah, I like that. So I got my first apartment, had a roommate, had a roommate, it was like, all right, it's a move out day. It's like, is, is it's like, is it's like, is it's a I'm here now my stuff's here is it move out day me and our niece are just gonna stay for a while we've been here for four months and we're gonna get Tanya to stay through I was just gonna keep finding out what happens we stop being polite great idea Bill I was kind of thinking that I you know there was their story going around about Carl Anthony towns when he got traded from the Timberwolves was like they gave me 10 minutes to pack nine years of stuff here and I was like there would be a whole new Pacific Heights twist of people moving into athletes houses after they just and being like I'm not leaving, but you're like, you know, cats squatter. Sure. Yeah, what if cat just never left Minnesota? That's right. He's like, nah, I'm good. Yeah, does Jimmy Nolan say like, I know the trade legally happened. Craig, do you have a terrible tenant story? When I lived in Brooklyn, a year after college, we had a true slumlord. Like, our place was a complete piece of shit and we eventually stopped paying rent and realized there's nothing this guy can do so we didn't pay rent for probably didn't pay rent for probably anything to harass you back? He threatened us and we said like we'll get a lawyer and he never responded. We never saw the guy in person. We went to his office. It was always closed every time we came by so we just stopped paying. Mm. This is what happens. But that's New York. I think in like Florida and Texas it's a lot harder for the tenant. The other weird thing about this movie is I think it's a 101 because you think like there's been 75 we did hand the Raxicicacicacickeel. It's 75 versions of 75 versions of the movie that movie with the movie with the movie with the movie with the movie going to try to rope in the dad and all the the mistress from hell that's a that's I don't remember another tenant or eviction from hell right? Well this could be I mean so it would be so fun to remake this for Airbnb now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And to be like oh yeah you know because they've made some Airbnb horror movies like the I think it was the rental from a couple years ago with Dave Franco. Oh I kind of like that movie. Me too. And he directed that but they haven't made a I air the world cup and now the guy won't leave. Like that's that's sitting right there. And he's with seven people from Scotland. And they keep singing about John McGinn. They just keep singing songs and pouring beer on each other. This was another thing I loved about this movie that for some reason makes me think of Kyle Brandt every time I see this opening credits from the 80s or 90s. It starts out, James G. Robinson presents. Sure. I don't know who that is, but it just sounded, there's a certain weight and I just sounded, and I just disappointed that Mustafa Aukai couldn't have been involved. This was a Carolco. I think one of the last Morgan Creek movies. I can't remember. Yeah. And then Joe Roth was a part of this. This was had a lot of hitters. And it's worth saying it's Keaton's first movie after Batman. Yeah, let's do some Keaton. First movie after Batman. We talked about him in the past. I loved him in the 80s from the Letterman appearances, which we did with Billy Blaze. Johnny Dangerously Gungho, Beatlejou, He's a top five letterman guests. There's a couple of misses in there. A little clean and sober in there. But then Batman in 89, and it was like watching like one of your college buddies just become one of the biggest stars in the world. It's like really Michael Keaton's gonna be Batman. Yeah, he's like the closest thing we would have today would be Pratt right? Like, like, I saw him on Letterman a hundred thousand times. Like it was more. He had the one show he became Batman. He's tough, tall. Bill, I'm hearing a lot of things from the guys in Gotham. They're very excited about RV Dead's chances as attorney general. Hey, I talked to the Penguin Bill. His guys love him. They are ready to go to war for him for Gotham. And you know what? The cold weather is not a problem for the Penguin, we're hearing. And I'll tell you another thing, if the Penguin hadn't gone right there, Sean McVeigh was ready to take him. I'm glad you bring up McVeigh. I haven't mentioned him in 30 seconds. Did you know I'm friends with him in 30 seconds. Did you know I'm friends with him. in disguise. Peter you're great we love you I know you listen anyway Batman makes Keaton a massive massive star it goes from a wait why the fuck is this guy Batman too he was actually a great Batman because of the mouth yes the mouth with the mask look great he did the job he pulled it off what's your next move it's gonna be an eviction thriller actually with Matthew Modine and Melton Griffith so I couldn't find this in the research yeah do you guys because there's a phenomenon of like this has happened to And then the first thing that comes out is a horror movie that she had shot like three years previous and they're like from the star of the Hunger Games. I'm like, I bet she would have paid anything to have that flush down the toilet. Was Pacific Heights something that he agreed to previously previously? So he was like, I'm pivoting. Career man, career move of I want to be a little bit evil. But the thing is, actors love going evil. This is the best part of the best part of the movie. But the movie. Red Dawn remake came out after he was Thor, and they brought that out. But listen, I have a take. Carter Hayes. A lot of times in porn. Like I didn't realize I thought. Wow, look at this person. Going at it. Carter Hayes is Bruce Wayne if he had never gotten the money. And I think it's like Thomas and Martha get killed and he turns to crime. All the money goes to charity. He's cunning. He's dashing. He's brilliant. He likes the blonde women. Let's. Let's be honest. There is. There is like a very. moment with that black Porsche where he clicks the thing and that's like that's the fucking Batmobile like in the driveway that is exactly it he drives that fancy Mercedes at the end that's like the Wayne family car if Bruce Wayne had never gotten the money he's Carter Hayes when he's trying to take on that rich widow at the end he's rolling around he's got the vneec sweater on he definitely looks like Bruce Wayne at the golf club I've said this in previous pods and it sounds nuts but hanks and Keats and Keaton were deadlocked for years Mahomes of Josh Allen basically and and Keaton was winning in 1990 Batman was bigger than anything Hank did they were dead even probably going for the same parts where you could have flipped them in different movies and by the time we get to Pacific Heights this movie was a hit mhm and hanks has bonfire of the vanities basically the same year that's a bomb yes and then Melanie Griffith and then the next year it flips and hanks goes on his hanks run I think the thing I think the thing I think the thing I think the thing I think the thing I loved about him more when he's like this guy or Jackie Brown. Mm-hmm because he could also be the night shift guy but you can't be the night shift guy for 20 years, right? Night shift guy is like a five-year shelf wife like a five-year shelf-lip like the paper he's like a little darkness to Keaton. Yeah and I think being part of an ensemble or being part of a larger cast rather than being like the only person is helpful for him. Like the paper he's pretty good in spotlight. We cut these guys loose. I missed that. Yeah, living your... Don't you call me, ladies! You know it's an underrated... I found this out this weekend because it came up on YouTube. An underrated accent and spotlight is Tucci. Tucci... What's he doing in that? It's like Boston, but I maybe went out of state for school and came back. I went to Tennessee. Yeah. He's really a one-on-one and honestly a threat to listen to this podcast and sent some angry tweets. I just want to say I love Matthew Modine. I love Matthew Modine. I love back to Modine. I love Madine. I love Madine. And I'm taking on the next. And also this part, vision quest we love. We already did vision quest. He's back stranger things. He had a huge run. Thank you. I'm in a modern. And also, this part. those utilities and does that victory dance? Cringe, mowdine you can tweet anything you want. Wow, come right at me. Mowdine said about... Kyle, I've been talking to mowdine and he's so excited about some of the stranger things spitoffs, yeah. Mowdine said about Michael Keaton in one of the many interviews he's given over the years. Michael is a charming and witty man. So playing that character may have been uncomfortable for him. It was so against type... I'm not sure, I'm not sure what he did he did he did he did He had just done Batman, it was a ginormous success, so I'd see him on the set and we do our work, and then he'd disappear like Bruce Wayne. Mm. I think Keaton was just in and out. Modine's like, hey, you want to watch the next game tonight? No, no, I'm going to dinner. And that was it, didn't feel like there was a lot of love in general on this set. But, um, yeah. Keaton after this, it gets a little rocky for a couple of a couple years. IMD B wise and then hey. Chris do you like Batman Returns? I think I'm not the biggest burden Batman guy I think the first one's huge for me just because of like seeing it the theater and the events of it all but I think it just kind of pales in comparison to the norm. Yeah I don't care for it very much I just don't think it's very good and then the shoemaker ones came in and destroyed it right. I don't really like to your point bill like the definition of it for Keaton. Yeah. Yeah. This is kind of the tail end for her as a leading actress in a movie. We go from body double, something wild, working girl, and then she does Pacific Heights, Bonfire, the Vanities this year, and then that's it. She really paid for Bonfire, the vanities in a way that, really tough. She was the one. Yeah, and Willis didn't either. The Palma did, though. Yep. This was the last Stanford, and I gotta say she's miscast in this movie, but I still like that she's in the movie. I don't think she's the right person for the movie and I never really bought her in Modim but I think that's one of the reasons I like the movie Kyle. Even last night my wife and I were talking about her we're like would these two be together? There's a lot of that. I was so this is my favorite part about this movie sometimes we'll watch these films that are set in like the early 90s up until like maybe turn of the century and you're like I felt like all of this stuff would be so different now because of technology but there's something instructor or horse riding instructor and a kite maker. Yeah, let's make it work you want to throw a 750 down on a Victorian? You know like I don't know like how would people vet each other back then how long did you date you know but like they're just two kids like to fuck trying to make it honest you know like it's just I had this for later like did he feel like the kites were gonna take off in the 90s? Dude I mean South Korea it's going nuts right now. Listen I have it on unanswerable questions it's like does he does he does he does he does he does he make luxury kite maker. Right now it would be like some doosh bag you went to high school with on Facebook and he's like bit of personal news new endeavor starting a kite company big things coming I P. P. O in spring of 28. Early investors if anyone wants to get out of my kite company so she's a horse instructor with a bad knee. work on Patty. But maybe get an apartment. You're not even married. Like the big swing for the Victorian. It's just an apartment would be fine, right? Maybe you guys get the studio. That's the other weird thing about the relationship is like they're filling out the application. It's like marital status. They look at each other like single. It's like they don't want to really get married, but somehow they went all in on this giant Victorian anyway. And she says she's pregnant at one point and he doesn't even No. He just says like congratulations like she just got promoted at work. It's like did your kid too fuck face? I have a lot of Drake Goodman thoughts but yeah Melanie Griffith. She's at that stage with this where I think she's probably late 20s real life but in the movie could be anywhere from 25 to 44 I would have believed any age whereas Modine seems pretty young still. Like he's in Vision Quest five years earlier that after this. Yes. Also he goes shirtless a couple of times and he looked at absolutely great, he's in vision quest shape. Two things about their relationship. They kind of looked like brother and sister, and if you know that and watch it, it weirded you out. I watched it once a few days ago, and then I did some research, which you probably have, Bill, that they weren't necessarily the best friends on set, and I don't think it went that well. And then I watched the movie again, and it really affects it, it, scene and she's kind of mounting him and that just felt like brother it was like watching the Lannister was a lot more electricity when when Keaton's got the nail gun to her head a little bit more chemistry going on. That's one of the questions of this movie she has a more interesting relationship with Keaton who she's in like two scenes with yes but when she's in the scenes of them I'm like oh yeah yeah now we're going. I don't know this look she's iconic and body double she's great in Working Girl. a bevy of personal problem. She married Antonio Banderas and she married Manny from Scarfe. It's kind of like us for doing to Miami advice the series after all these years. Well I feel like she's like a family member for us. Don Johnson, Stephen Bower and Antonio Banderas and her three husbands. I'm like I don't know I kind of think her. She should be third chair on the big bank. Drake Goodman, who, I'll just say this now, I think is the biggest dope in all of these From Hill movies. He might be the number one dumbest. The worst? Yeah, a male or female, I think he's the dumbest. Every decision he makes is wrong. He escalates it. At one point my wife, who was half watching as always, just went on a tirade on him, where it was like, it was almost like, it was almost like you forget your movie. He was like, why was this guy so fucking stupid. He ever acts to everything. like, oh this guy is bringing so much grief to himself because he can't control his temper. Can you imagine if he is the rewatchables producer? The company is set on the screen yet. Where is he? You told us about. What about it? What do you Jake Goodman thoughts, Kyle? I have a lot of Jake Goodman thoughts. Him being the dumbest thing in any of the From Hell movies is bold. There's a woman in the good son who drops her own son off a cliff and favor of one of his son. But I love, there's a really brief scene, I know you guys saw it, where he shows us a lot of his cards, and he's a rugby player. He comes in in the rain, he's got that like blues clues shirt on and he's like, sorry, he went to double overtime, super violent. Most rugby players will be ready to fight and have beers after the game and really, really dumb. Like my favorite part of the From Hell movies is not when the From Hell people go bad. It's when they're buttering up their marks. has with Modine and then it's a very different one with Patty and Modine just sees a few hundred bucks and he's like I don't give a shit with your private trust great total idiot whereas Melanie Griffith is actually really smart in this movie yeah she does a lot of stuff in that scene which is gonna be coming up for most rewatchable's where it's like so you bought this who'd you buy this with you guys married it's your first one yeah like he's just like pulling information from him so good and stupid ass drate gewewa which by the way he doesn't give to him. Nope because he's like I can give you this now or I could wire you all of it next week anytime somebody's like I could wire it to you next week like I'm out yeah I'm like hey how about you how about you sign the lease and we could from my bank in San Antonio why yeah I'm good what was the San Antonio what was the Tropic Tropic Thunder? What is he saying that? Oh we're gonna get some crawfish? Yeah, so Drake Goodman, professional luxury kite maker, one of the dumbest landlords of all time. Yeah, terrible boyfriend, not excited at all for the pregnancy right away. When's the fight? Amateur alcoholic? Yeah, it's definitely put down five beers. Yeah, he hammers beers. Hammers him. At one point, he gets in a fight with Keaton. They go through the glass door, gets in some punches and then Melanie Griffith comes out. And he, all of a sudden he's like a five year old kid, he's like a five year old kid, collapses in her arms like, oh, I'm sorry. It's like, what are you in the kindergarten? You just fought the school bully? Just a complete mess. But he has all the traits of a spoiled rich kid except he's not rich. So what good is he? You're right. He's a, the more you watch it, the less you like him. This was kind of the mow-deen, you know, he would be