‘Obsession’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Joanna Robinson
The Rewatchables
The episode explores the horror film 'Obsession,' discussing its success, twist, and cultural impact. The hosts analyze the movie's narrativ
Key takeaways
- The movie's twist, where the seemingly obsessive woman is actually the victim, was a major surprise for many viewers.
- The film's success is attributed to its relatable characters, nuanced performances, and its ability to be rewatched for hidden details.
Main topics
- The twist in the movie and its impact on viewers
- The cultural and online impact of the film
Notable quotes
"This guy's the loser of losers then realizes that it worked."
Conclusion
The episode provides a deep dive into the film 'Obsession,' highlighti
Transcript preview
Speaker 1 (0:00) Hey, we're live. Rewatchables. I'm Bill Simmons. That's Chris Ryan. That is Joanna Robinson. We're about to do obsession. Joanna, you can hear on House of Ar. CR? Yeah. The year of CR. I was getting mailback questions about this, that this is the year of CR now because you have LeBron James. I listened to this on your podcast, and I appreciated the fact that you think me hosting aliens would be better than me appearing in Heat 2. I said it was more realistic. Yeah. Either way, the Year of CR continues. Obsession Live. Next. Well, we did from Hell Month. It was basically all of June. This is a belated from Hell month. Or in Hell month. The Wish from Hell. A Wish from Hell. I wrote down, Big, crossed with fatal traction, crossed with room with a whiff of weird science. That's obsession. This movie is a phenomenon. One of the most successful indie movies of all time. Why? I mean, for a million different reasons. the YouTube footprint that already existed for this film, the existential dread we're all experiencing. The double feature with backrooms, like kind of making a Barbenheimer sort of experience, and then just wanting to be out in the world of people feeling something true. Every once in a while, a movie broadly like this, so some of them are more like traditional horror, traditional thriller, what have you, but they just seem to catch lightning in a bottle. So whether it's Blair Witch, 6th Sense, what, like get out, and then you get to obsession. And I don't even know if there's not like a twist and obsession that like you're running out to be like, you have to go see this in the theater the first weekend because you don't, it's really, it's really Indie Navarretti that's like the twist. It's like you're not going to believe this girl when you see her. But it just caught fire. And it just became this thing that was like, people were going to see a two, three, times. I think it was appealing mostly especially to to younger audiences and it really revived like this feeling that there are new voices coming to movie theaters. I think the twist other than the leaf blower guy as always four o'clock right outside. Like you guys on Netflix? Yeah, yeah. Hey, this is live? I think the twist was what I thought the movie was versus when I saw the movie because I just thought this was like a fatal attraction movie, right? Oh, you thought she was just Yeah, because I try not to read up on the movies. So it was like, oh, this is like the worst case scenario of a fatal attraction movie and not realizing that the man (Bear) is actually the villain. And the first time you see you're like, oh, you realize what's happening. Even though she's the quote-unquote villain, she's not, it's him. So that was one of the twists. But the fact that people are going back three, four, five times, this was my daughter, who might actually be watching this on Netflix. My daughter's generation, my son's generation, like they went back. multiple times to watch this. So why? What are like the little hidden footprints of this that make people want to come back? Remember how right before we started recording, you were talking about actors doing movies to impress their kids? Are we doing this rewatchable to impress your daughter? Yeah, it was really to impress Craig. Craig loves this movie. I did like it, yeah. Why do you go back? I mean, I think you want to share it with people who haven't seen it. That's what I remember about the sixth sense, not just the twist, but just sort of like wanting to be in the theater when they see. what this is. And it's like a nice, tidy little movie. And I don't know, it's just like an incredibly satisfying experience. It's durable and it's not didactic. So by durable, I mean, if you go back and rewatch it, I think I saw it once in the theater. I've watched it a couple of times this week. Parts of her performance specifically are incredibly nuanced because if you know where it's going and you know what's happened to her already, you can see like real Nikki come out. Yeah. Demon Nikki or Possessed Nikki. enter the chat. You can see all these different little wrinkles that maybe you don't catch the first time. And then I also think the fact that he doesn't come out and put a giant spotlight on any one of the characters and is like, good guy, bad guy. You know, it's very like, you can watch it and it's a little bit of like keeps you off kilter because it really is about 40 minutes in, 35 minutes in when he sleeps with her where you're like, ah, this guy's a piece of shit. Like, this is really bad. You know, that you really, it changes the entire perspective of the film. Yeah, the first time I watched it, I was so struck by just how awkward the guy was. And I don't know if it was the actor or the character. And I kind of still don't. We'll talk about him later, like whether it was the performance or he's actually playing it perfectly. But then the second time I watched, that's when you pick up all the hidden stuff because you know where it's going. You're not going on a ride with the movie. Yeah. You're just like, well, I know where this is going. What did I miss? And then you see all the nuances, all the stuff like basically her being. trapped in Wishnicki. You have that whole side. And then you realize, like, Bear had all these outs really from the first night. Yeah. Right? He's Googling it that night. Easily could have gotten out. The way you said Wish Nicky, I was like, does that guy play a tight end for Iowa? Did he just come via NIL? Wish Nicky. I think the Sixers took him with the second red. But yeah, and then I watched it the third time, and there was more stuff. Yeah. And I think it's going to be one of those movies. I don't think it's going to be the shining. Well, it's like if you know what Ian does, by the end of the movie, the whole rest of the movie looks a little bit different. If you know Sarah always likes Bear, the whole rest of the movie looks different. And those are really fun, fun return trips. I also think it's not, I don't actually think it's debatable who the bad guy of this movie is. And, you know, we can talk about maybe some of our friends and colleagues who disagree with that. But I do think that it's like, which friend or colleague? Are you a fan? The funny thing is, we all knew exactly. Yeah, we had to actually ban van from this podcast. Yeah, we didn't want to have been here for a reason, but like, but it's not actually debatable, but there's like enough that you could grasp onto that I remember when, like, when 500 days of summer came out and like people radically got that movie incorrect. And then it was just sort of like an ongoing argument for months and years to come about like who the bad guy in that movie is. Or like, as you grow older, you're like, oh, summer was up front from the beginning. She was in that movie. So, like, those kinds of relationship dynamics, gender dynamics, experience dynamics, that can be sort of debated, especially, I guess, if you're van on any of access to Twitter. So, yeah. You bring your own baggage to this movie. I was thinking biggest 21st century horror movies, if you're combining cultural impact, critical acclaim, box office. Got it. And I really went through it. I was like, how many of these have there been? I only had seven. And two of them came out this year, because I think Backrooms also counts. Sure. Get out, it, conjuring, quiet place, sinners, if you count it as a horror movie and weapons. That's really it. Because Hereditary didn't make enough at the box office. I don't think it did. I think Hereditary was critically acclaimed. I don't think it had the box office. These are all movies. These are giant movies. Influential to Curry Barker. No question. But that's a different list. Sure. Because I think you still need, are people going to go actually see the movie? Bobad Duke's a good one. Bobadook was a good one. Chris and I love dragged me from hell, but that wasn't, I don't think, had the same critical acclaim. There's been others, like the first insidious. Like we could mention a bunch more. But it's really hard to have the box office, the critical acclaim, and the cultural conversation all at the same time, which is what this did. And then this took a whole other life on the internets, on the Reddits. On the Internet. Wow. And then it had all YouTube culture of, here's what you missed. Did you realize this? Here are 20 Easter eggs. Sure. There's one guy who watched Obsession at 0.25 speed. Really? Does like a long YouTube clip on it? Like, these people are fucking nuts. How much time do you think you've logged on YouTube watching videos about this movie? Enough that I think I have to go in and change my algorithm. Yeah, I have to amputate my algorithm and get it out. I don't want them. So it's no longer like fights, your YouTube fight, Alco has gone away. Okay. So you don't like horror movies. Not typically, although... Producer Craig. I've watched a lot over the years now because of this show. But you like this one, so why? This one is not... This one is like... One of it has a fantastic performance, and I feel like sometimes, like, the star of a horror film as, like, some demonic creature. And, like, the fact that I could watch Indie Navarready put on, like, an Oscar-worthy performance and a horror film felt really cool. It also felt small and relatable. And I think it's why people stuck to this movie. It stuck with me. I liked it. And then like a day after I saw it, I started thinking about it and I kept liking it more and more. I don't know. There's just a lot of really small little personal interaction stuff that I think people can really dig into and pull apart. Yeah. I think also there's something to be said for the fact that it was New Blood. Yeah. And, you know, often you'll watch, especially during Comic-Con and a bunch of like the summer movies, you see all these trailers and you're like it's... Thanks for gesturing at me. Sorry. I was just acknowledging your service in going to San Diego. San Diego for Comic-Con. That you will watch trailers and you're like, ah, Callum Turner, ah, Callum Turner, Calum Turner again, you know? Or like they recycle actors, like actors get hot. They do five movies year. I love Robert Pattinson, but he's obviously got a lot of time to kill before Batman. But like, this is one of those things that Hollywood used to really be able to do, which is like we'll also make stars. You know, like we'll find this person. And, you know, if there's a god, she'll be in heat too. I wrote my notes. No big deal. Is that possible? Could she be Ashley Judd? She was, she was been rumored as being, having met with Michael Mann. I wrote my notes. This is a social horror movie. I was trying to think of other examples of this. Get out. What do you mean by social horror movie? Dialogue heavy. Oh, social like interactive. It roams you in thinking that it's one kind of movie, right? And then she starts unraveling, but it's still, even though it's like, hey, good news. I dug up your cats. Like, okay, this. but it goes, the second part of this movie goes to the full horror level, but it ropes you in where it's like, these people are normal. Yeah. Which I think is one of the hardest things for a horror movie to pull off. Like, you've made me feel normal. I feel like I know the people in this. They're all having beers at Barker's Pub. One of my favorite theories that I saw floating around this movie is they were, some people are like, oh, well, she was behaving relatively normally inside of this wish scenario before she gave him the tiger's eye, like this whole thing about the tiger's eye, Jen that she was. Because I'm like, before that, she definitely digs up a cat and puts it right away. So I don't think there's any, any, yeah, there's that like hilarious montage of like rom-com moments that is like really good. That was really funny. And that keeps you so off-kilter as a viewer. But she's already staged a cat. And I think once you go there. She's behind the cash register just staring at them as they're talking and her, she doesn't move for three minutes. Yeah. Just eyeing them down. Corey Barker Curry Curry Barker I have it I said Corey Who's Corey Barker He played for Orlando Gators With Chandler Parsons Cory Barker Cory Barker Cory Booker Cory Booker Yeah Cory Booker is what I was thinking you were This was I wrote down his 6 cents Just a tremendous idea Yeah Like Edmline Had that 6 cents It's like Oh Spoiler It's 27 years old give him enough time to X out of the Netflix app. You know what? I'm not going to spoil it. Wow. Yeah. The restraint. And Night Chalala had a good idea and he made it. And that Chambla had a really good twist idea. Yeah. And he did it and he wrote it to 27 years of movies. One Wish Willow is right up there. It's just a great idea. And he's borrowing it from these other movies where somebody made a wish and a backfire thing. Yeah. Not like this. The Wish Gone Wrong movie. Where are you on the Wishmaster franchise? Not really there. I like Wish Gone Wrong, but to me, like, big. That's what I grew up with was like, oh, he wish he could be big, and now he is. And he's got to get out of this. I mean, how alone is that, too, right? Right. You know, he's like, I wish my family would just disappear. Yeah. And weird sense. The Labrantly is. It's true. It's true. But this kid's clearly, what's he, 26? Yeah, something like that. Maybe a little young. No. How old are you? How old are you? Have you hit the age yet where you start seeing people like this? And you're like, what the fuck, man? A little bit. A little bit. Yeah, I'm 31. He's 26. Kane Parsons is the one that really pissed me off. He was 19 when he made back from. I was like, all right, fuck off. Unbelievable. But he's going to have, I think, there's a lot of good stuff in this movie. Did you watch any of his YouTube stuff? I didn't. Should I have? I think you'd enjoy it. It sounds like some of it's going to get adapted as features, so you could also just hold on. But his sensibility is very distinctive, I think. It's got, there's some, like, Japanese horror influence, but then there's also, like, obviously sketch comedy, and sketch comedy has been this huge platform for people to go from like cragher went from sketch comedy to horror, Jordan Peel, sketch comedy to horror and now Curry. Even like Bill Hader now is making a horror film. You did sketch comedy at the ringer. Why can't this be you? I know. The hell. Well, isn't your current existence of horror movie? That's true. So if we're pulling ideas from YouTube and turning them into movies, does this mean coach Nick? I mean, you and I. Bebaw Breakdown. That would be an incredible last actor you're behind the music where it's like, then Bill got really into cocaine and spent $50 million on a coach Nick. Coach Nick made a horror movie. All right, let's do it. Bear as the villain. Yeah. So. Full stop. Listen. End of sentence. You know. Oh, in defense of bear. Is that what's happening right now? The opposite. Okay. How was this even an argument or a debate where people are like, you know who's actually the villain, bear? I mean, is. That's the premise of the movie. Right. Fair was clearly the villain, a socially awkward weirdo, drinks peanut colladas, like right there. It's like, what are you doing? That's the bar. Has cats likes them but won't mourn his dead cat? He's like, yeah, I'll go out for drinks. Practice is telling a girl that he loves her to some fucking random waitress completely chokes when he has the chance and then uses the one-wish willow to try to win her over. This guy's the loser of losers then realizes that it worked. And then basically, keeps her captive for months weeks? How long is this? You got there in the end. I feel like you hit a few remarks like Pina Colada or has cats or whatever that I would not run the middle moment from this guy for two hours on top of how terrible the outcome this was. But he's a type that we are supposed to recognize from that like 500 days of summer era of like manic pixie dream girl storytelling. So he's Zach Raff and Garden State? Yeah, he's Garden State. He's Joseph Crossed with the guy from room. He's like it's Elizabeth Town it's like all these other things are these like Nirmie yearning guys that we're supposed to be rooting for and it's just like How many times have we actually rooted for the right guy in these movies? In these movies are just like a yearnly garden state I don't defend that guy Sometimes do drive by on guys like this like you don't like Troy in reality bites do you like Grover and kicking and screaming? I do okay just making sure Remember when we did Can't Hardly wait this movie is exactly Can't Hardly wait yeah I know This movie is exactly Can't Hardly Wait if it was a horror movie where he's like obsessed from afar and what, like if Ethan Emory can't hardly wait, if Jenna Elfman gave him one wish Willow he would have been like, I wish Amanda love me more than anyone else in the world. You're absolutely right. I hate this guy. Does one wish willow. Nikki has no choice from the moment he breaks it. That's, yes. That night he has a decent idea at might have worked, Googles it. Yeah. And then he's like, doesn't go. It's not even. I'm going to roll the dice because how else would I have this girl. She's like maybe she was on Molly. Next day, digs up the cat. He's like, yeah, well, I'll still give this a few more days, keeps it going and going, keeps having sex with her. And that's like one of the most disturbing scenes in the movie, because, you know, not freaked out by the duct tape door at all. Duck tape door should have been like the last, like, I got to get this girl some help. He was freaked out. He's definitely freaked out. He went to work. Yeah, but his face was like staring in shock at that door. Do you think duct tape door is I'm just going through all the beats. It's not dead cat. I'm just going through the beats. Never gets the second one wish willow to nullify the first one, which would have been the easiest move. It's like, man, this one wrong. Well, you're the Picasso of the trade machine. You would have thought it out immediately. Yeah. Nikki says, Nikki's asleep, wish Nikki's asleep. Yeah. And captive Nikki is going, just kill me. Yeah, she's like, shoot me. Just kill me. And he goes, what would be so bad about being with me? And then he's fucking asshole. Yeah. Yeah, that night. He's not like I should probably do suicide watch here. He takes off. When he starts, like, making eyes at Sarah, I was. But here's my question. Ready to punch. This guy is a pathetic weak loser. Can you be a true villain when you're a pathetic weak loser who drinks peanut colitis and doesn't mourn your dead cat? Yes. Okay. Because the sort of like, because he's a capital N, capital G, nice guy. Like, that's bear's whole thing, right? It's like he thinks he's a nice guy. He thinks he's entitled to, you know, this relationship. And we are, like, we often, I root for, like, the nice guys, but this is the cautionary tale of the nice guy, which is just sort of like, when he doesn't see you as a person, he has no idea who you are. And he doesn't really care who you are. Yes. There are two reasons, I think, why, Lisa, my first viewing, I was a little like, okay, so where, how do I feel about this guy? one is that young love can be reality altering, right? Like the first time you really fall in love with your young person, you can like wish for things beyond what you're going to be able to get. And like it can sometimes distort like, you know, I know she said she doesn't really want to go out on a date with me and she just wants to be friends, but maybe like that did, she didn't mean what she said. Like you can make things up in your head. But that's really dangerous as we can see from this movie. Second of all, they shoot this movie entirely from his POV. So the audience is corrupted. in what happens and you're kind of like just from the audience to screen relationship. I think there is like an inherent like, am I also guilt culpable in this? Like because I'm watching him do it and like because I've watched so many of these movies, do I want him to get the girl? And what does that mean? So I think that's why people are almost thrown off a little bit. Get the girl. You know what I mean? I think it's interesting too that Curry Barker and Indian have already have talked about how they intentionally had those first few scenes when it's, actually Nikki, they intentionally played it sort of both ways constantly. Right, they had her, she likes them in one scene, but didn't like them the next time they do a cut. And so you at the audience are not, I mean, she says things like, ew, when he says I got her, I got you a gift. I think that's pretty clear. But, but, you know, there are some moments like, and you know, in the moment where she asks, Bear, do you like me? He chokes. And he chokes. And then she said, I played it as sort of disappointed. Like, that was, that was a choice we made. So they're just trying to maintain this ambiguity for the audience, at least, to keep the audience unsure. Yeah, and I love, like, even the detail of this setup that she's about to leave that job. Yeah. And that their sort of, like, work romance thing is going to be over. Like, even though it's chased, but, like, their flirtation at work, part of their life is going to be over. So, like, if he ever wants to shoot his shot, he's got to do it now and he can't manage to get it up. Like, that's a great little detail that she's leaving that job. Yeah. And she says that, I mean, she kind of confides in him about her interest in writing and, like, the story she wants to tell. And she's like, you're the only person I can talk to about that. Which is very classic, like, you, the guy likes the girl, she's open to you. You so clearly know you're stuck in the friend zone, but you don't want to disrupt it because you're like, this girl is actually confiding in me, something that she wouldn't do with anyone else. So they do a good job of setting it up where he's like, I clearly have something with her. Right, but it's not romantic. I just really love that she was like, you know, Ian, his friend who has another agenda, says you have nothing but time. But she says, we're running out of time when she says she's giving it her two weeks notice. And the message of that is, once we don't work together all the time anymore, we're not, this is not, this is not transcend that we were in high school together. And then we worked retail together. And our friendship is not strong enough to go down there. And we did the high fidelity podcast together. Like retail is also a reality distorting field where you're like, this is like my best friend. I stand next to a register with him for eight hours a day. And then like, you leave for another job and you never see that person again. It was school sitting next to somebody in class. There's a lot of good tropes in this movie that Curry Barker is clearly like I grew up watching movies and I've seen a million of these. But it has like obviously Sarah likes him. That's the one he should have gone after and doesn't realize it. Like that's out of the fucking 80s. How many 80s movies were like that? It's like, oh, I loved her, but I didn't realize the one who liked me was right next door. She was a brunette and there was a blonde over there, man. Right. And then the four people working together, the dickhead friend. Yes. Who seems like he's on your side, but he's really not. You know, it hits a bunch of them. Michael Johnston, is the guy who plays bear. Yeah. I can tell by the categories you picked how you felt about this performance. I think it's a, it is a great performance, but the reason it's great is because you do not like him. Yeah. And I don't think it would work if it was like, who would you, why don't you just tell me who you think should play this one? Yeah, tell us who you want in there. Well, let me. the movie is $750,000. Uh-huh. Yeah. Right. They're not getting... Shalame. They luck out with Indian Navaretti who was like the all-time jackpot for a movie like this, right? Yeah. So I'll give you the scale of one to Dante from Clerks. Okay. Of like, fuck, if we had had a better actor here. Is Dante from Clerks the highest high here? The highest high of, fuck. How did we not get a better actor? Oh, okay. He was terrible. Tough. Yeah. There's the reason we can't do clerks in the rewatchables because people ask it for it sometimes and I'm like, it would just be two hours of just shitting on Dante. I don't want to do it. Sometimes you gotta cast your friend, you know? Yeah, it's really tough. I still have a lot of time for clerks. Even with Dante? Yeah, of course. All right, so one to Dante, where is this guy as an actor where we might have been able to get better at me? Dante being the worst. Yeah. Dante's a 10 and 10 is bad. 10 is bad. I think this guy is a three. Yeah. I think he does a very good job. Three, four. I think there's a thing, there's only one of the thing you could have done if you had had a little bit of budget, which is the thing that Promising Young Woman did, which is cast a bunch of nice guys, you know, it's like Bo Burnham and like Chris Love Lowell and like all the guys who were in Promising Young Woman and you're like used to rooting for them. You're like, oh, Adam Brody's here. Yeah. And then you're like, oh, these guys are pieces of shit. So if there was like a nice guy, lowercase N, lowercase G that we could root for in that role and then be betrayed by. Well, Indiana Averetti, career change of breakout role. She was in one film called Wander Darkly in 2020. See it? I have not seen that. She was in 13 reasons why. I did watch. The show I did watch because my daughter watched it was during COVID. And Superman and Lois, apparently. Yeah. I'm going to give this the BAM out of bio, 83 point game award for where the fuck did this performance come from. Yeah. This is like Malachi Flynn scoring 50 in that one game a few years ago. You're like, who, what? But it feels sustainable because she's so good in this. Clearly, she's going to be in our lives now for the next 30 years. 100%. Starting with heat two. And then just remember. So career change and breakout role. I'm going to go even further, though. Because I was thinking, like, how many iconic great horror movie actress performances have there been where you're like, oh. So three I came up with. Kathy Bates of Misery, Tony Colette and Hereditary, and Cici SpaceX and Carrie. You're not, you have no space for Jamie Lee Curtis. Obviously, I mean, I love Halloween. I wouldn't say she's Meryl Streep in that movie, but she's really good. Sure. I'm talking about like a horde of an aggressor, yeah. It's just, it's pretty rare. These movies are usually like you have like the drag me from hell lady who is Alison Lohman. Yeah. And it's like, oh yeah, she was good. But you don't have like, like, she's probably going to be the Oscar favorite. I would love that. That would be such a good narrative. I think she will get nominated. Yeah, she will definitely get nominated. Our friend Lasker texted me this whole thing on the internet today about, it was like the early odds and it's a week season and she's the favorite. And there's rumors that the Odyssey, they're already trying to figure out. Oh, Hathaway's going to duck her? Do we want to. Is Hathaway going to duck her and go to supporting actress? I already thought Hathaway was running and supporting. Like, I thought that was already the narrative. I think she's going to win best actress. I don't think anybody's going to beat her. And I think she deserves it. I think everybody loves her in this movie and it's going to carry it, the narrative, the story. I think she's going to win it. And she deserves it. I thought she was unbelievable. I think after the Amy Madigan win for weapons and the Mikey Madison win for a Nora, like that's those two narratives sort of combined, I can definitely see that happening. What do you think, Sierra? It seems like you think it's unrealistic. You know what? I just get, we're going to get beaten down by like six months of like, oh, Kate Blanchett's never been better, you know? You know, and like, or Renato Rines, but why not a third nom in a row? You know, it's like, she's cool. But, like, I think this is, like, one of those. Because one of the things with this, Joanna, is, like, I always think about degree of difficulty with the part as part of the Oscars thing. The degree of difficulty of this movie is like a 10 out of 10. Like, she's got to do 19 things in this movie. If she's bad, I start looking at my phone in the middle of this movie. Yeah. If she's not great in this movie, this movie makes $20 million. It just doesn't work. And I think, you know, increasingly it feels like the Oscars wants to award box office in addition to sort of prestige. But they want relevancy. And this would be a very relevant win. Yeah. My advice to her now is not a lot of interviews. Yeah. You have to go away for a minute. Just keep some mystery. She's cool as shit, though. Have you seen her? No, I know she is. But she, I think she'll have the lead. Like just do the Michael B. Jordan. Just smile. Do a couple of generic interviews. Stay out of it and cash in after. because this will be her slu's. Hathaway might duck her. She may run to the supporting actress category. I definitely think she's going to do that. Hathaway's ring chasing? Yeah, she's ring chasing it. She's going to go play with the B. I think you can make a real case for either category. That's not such abject category fraud as some other duckings have been, Penelopean in the Odyssey. Yeah. It's right enough. I never know what to think anymore.