Your Money Habits Matter More Than Math

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruze guide listeners through complex personal finance scenarios, focusing on behavioral changes over mathematical hacks. The

Key takeaways

• Renee's retired parents own three homes but carry heavy credit card debt while giving free rent to relatives; hosts stress that debt is not inherited and advise direct boundary-setting.
• Jared, a 28-year-old cannabis worker earning $3K monthly with $23K in credit card debt, learns his core issue is income, not interest rates, prompting advice to dramatically increase earnings through career shifts or extra work.

Main topics

• Family financial boundaries & enabling
• Credit card debt payoff strategies

Notable quotes

"Debt is not inherited right. So you don't get, I mean, if they go to, if they die with a negative net worth, it only affects the bank, not you."

Conclusion

The episode reinforces that lasting financial freedom requires intentional behavior, clear

Transcript preview

Speaker 8 (0:02) Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Speaker 8 (0:12) Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for hanging out with us. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter is my co-host today. The phone number here is 888-825-5225. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth what you pay for it. All right, Renee is in Knoxville. Hi, Renee. How are you? Speaker 3 (0:47) I'm doing well. How are you? Speaker 8 (0:49) Better than I deserve. Speaker 2 (0:50) What's up? Speaker 3 (0:51) Thank you for taking my call. I am very concerned about my parents. They are both retired. Their income that they bring in is roughly around $4,000 a month, and their debt has surmounted greatly since they have retired. And I'm very concerned at where that's going to lead because I feel like it's going to be directed toward me and my husband to help them. And I just don't think that's fair. Speaker 8 (1:22) I agree. Okay. How Speaker 3 (1:24) old are they? Speaker 3 (1:26) Let's see, 73 and 76. Okay. And how old are you guys? 53. Okay. Speaker 3 (1:35) And, but they, they own three homes, one of which my cousin lives in and my brother lives in the other one and neither of them pay rent. My parents pay the insurance, they pay the taxes. And I don't think that's right. And I don't know how to address it. You know, especially when my mom tells me that she is trying to scrounge for coins to go get a Five for $14.99 from the grocery store. And she was asking my advice about consolidating her credit cards because that debt has gotten so much that she can't keep up with it. They need new tires on their van. And did you say to Speaker 2 (2:16) her, why don't you have my lame brother and my lame cousin pay you rent, and then we wouldn't be having this discussion? Speaker 5 (2:23) I've tried. No, I mean, if that's the answer Speaker 2 (2:25) to her question, if she says, I'm trying to scrounge coins, well, the reason is is because you give the house away to Lamo over here who needs to get a job and pay you rent. Speaker 3 (2:35) Exactly. And she refused Speaker 2 (2:37) to listen. Speaker 3 (2:37) Don't Speaker 2 (2:37) call Speaker 3 (2:37) me whining. Right. And, you know, I don't know how to have a deeper conversation with her, you know, when they're in this situation. And they had a friend that gave them $400. And, you know, I just, I don't think that's fair because he's on a fixed income too. Speaker 1 (3:00) Are they looking to change, Renee? I know she's calling and complaining. to you, but do you have hope that truly if you laid out some kind of plan that they would want to follow it or are they going to be just stuck in their ways? Because there's a point that they can just complain, right? And then there's other attitudes that are desperate and really wanting change. It doesn't sound like they're going to, they want to change. Speaker 3 (3:24) I don't see a change. She tells me that she's actually trying to go back to Speaker 2 (3:30) work. Speaker 3 (3:30) Where's your father? Speaker 2 (3:31) Why are you in all this discussion with your mother? Where's he? Speaker 3 (3:35) He won't go back to work for sure. No, Speaker 2 (3:38) I said, where is he? Why isn't he in this discussion? Speaker 3 (3:43) Because she wears the pants in that family. Oh, Speaker 2 (3:46) okay. Speaker 3 (3:48) Yeah. And, you know, and his advice doesn't work. And so it's all her. Speaker 3 (3:57) and everything falls on her. Well, my grandmother used to say Speaker 2 (4:01) those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still. Speaker 3 (4:07) So Speaker 2 (4:07) I doubt you're going to fix this. You're just going to have to watch it burn to the ground, it sounds like. I mean, the only option you've got is to just sit down with your mom and your dad in the room in person and turn off the television and say, we need to have a real serious discussion. You people are screwing up your lives, and I love you, and I don't want to watch you burn this to the ground. Speaker 5 (4:30) Mm-hmm. Speaker 2 (4:31) And, you know, you haven't been that direct. You've kind of just patted her on the hand. Right. And just kind of say, well, mom, I'm sorry. I mean, it's kind of known what you're doing, but you haven't really gone. You people are screwing up here. Well, Speaker 1 (4:43) and what's full Speaker 2 (4:43) stop, you know? Speaker 1 (4:45) Yeah. Right. And I don't, Speaker 2 (4:47) I don't, I doubt you're going to get their attention. Well, Speaker 1 (4:49) I was going to say, and the hard thing is Renee, you almost have to go. Cause I would, I would have, I would have one last sit down of like, here it is. And then beyond that, Renee, I think it's the hard reality that you're not going to be able to change them. And there may get to a point where they can't pay their bills. And I would say it's not up to you and your husband. At that point, they're going to be selling houses. You know what I mean? They're going to have to get equity. Oh, darn. They will have to have problems solved. So I'm curious, is your fear, and even the reason you call, is it more out of concern genuinely for you and your husband looking forward? Or is that of annoyance and what feels unfair? with how they're treating other people in their lives and they haven't given you that same sentiment. Speaker 1 (5:30) Because it's Speaker 2 (5:30) probably Speaker 1 (5:30) hurtful too, right? Where you're watching them and what they're doing. Because you said that a few times in the call already. So there's probably a level of hurt, of golly, that look what they're doing for everybody else. They can't even do it for themselves. Speaker 1 (5:43) Right. And, you Speaker 3 (5:44) know, I mean, it is genuine concern for us because I don't want all of our hard work to, you know, come to it. It won't, unless you Speaker 2 (5:56) voluntarily hand it over. Speaker 3 (5:58) Yeah. Speaker 2 (5:58) Your hard work is not in jeopardy at all unless you can't say no, unless you're your mother's daughter. I mean, if you want to follow in her path and go, oh, well, yeah, I'm going to be the next family enabler. then, yeah, you could burn your own thing to the ground trying to keep these people afloat. But you can also just stand back and watch them and go, hmm, well, this is interesting. Speaker 3 (6:20) Right. You know what I mean? Because we're trying to focus on our future. Yeah, just go build your thing. I Speaker 2 (6:25) think I would sit down with mom and dad. And I think you've got, maybe part of the discussion is, look, I've talked to, and I wouldn't even have your husband in the room. I would just, you sit down with your mom and dad, and you need to go full throttle in their face, very blunt. To be unclear is to be unkind. No southern sugarcoating. Speaker 3 (6:45) No Speaker 2 (6:46) bless your heart. Speaker 3 (6:46) And I can do that. Speaker 2 (6:47) No bless your heart. Bust them. Okay. For their own good. And then part of that conversation is I've discussed it with your husband's name and we will not be supporting you because you have given away free rent to these two lame-os instead of taking care of your own self. and calling me up and whining about credit card debt when you got equity in a house over here and junior won't pay the rent because you're enabling him so don't be calling me i was Speaker 1 (7:15) going to say stop that guess but go ahead and lay Speaker 2 (7:17) it down now and then you walk away and you are not at risk unless you have the inability to say no also Speaker 3 (7:24) but Speaker 2 (7:26) debt is not inherited right So you don't get, I mean, if they go to, if they go to, if they die with a negative net worth, it only affects the bank, not you. Speaker 8 (7:37) And so it's just harsh. It's so hard to watch people you love Speaker 2 (7:42) be stupid. It's more entertaining to watch stupid people when they're not yours. Right. You know? But when they're yours, it's hard. Speaker 8 (7:53) You know? When it's like your family, you're, my God, I'm kin to you. You know? I mean, it's just like, Speaker 1 (7:58) you Speaker 8 (7:59) know, it's hard. Speaker 1 (8:00) Yeah, and there's an innate level within a family. And I get your concern, Renee, of, you know, your parents take care of you for 18, 21 years. You know what I mean? And it's that feeling of what's going to happen? Am I literally going to let them starve? And they won't. I think your mind's probably gone extreme of, oh my gosh, we're going to have to save the day. You're not. They have equity in probably two of these houses, I pray, right? That they're going to end up selling. They're going to eat and be fine. But man, it's a pull on your heart of like, Here are my parents and I don't know what to do. Ouch. Speaker 8 (8:58) Running a business is hard enough. The tools you use to run it should make your job easier. 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I really appreciate it. I just started actually listening into your show after my younger brother has been trying to help me get out of some credit card debt. I just had a question here, man. I'm kind of here with my hands tied and I'm sick of living the way that I do, but I'm about 23K in credit card debt and I have about two credit cards that I'm currently using with about 30 % use in each with monthly payments of one being 600 and the other being 200. I haven't missed a payment. I make the minimum payments, but what I find is that when I make the payments, it's just the interest is what's killing me here. And I just kind of, you know, needed some advice to, you know, maybe, you know, guide me in the right direction to get out of this debt. Speaker 1 (11:13) Is this the only consumer debt you have, Jared, or the two credit cards? Speaker 4 (11:17) Yes, it's Speaker 1 (11:18) the Speaker 4 (11:18) two credit cards. I'm with my partner of five years, and I was just honestly honest with her the other day about the debt that I was in. And, you know, she's... still willing to help me and stick around. And I have a really good, strong support system around me. You know, it's just in my little brother, he's actually going to school for business and marketing. You know, he recommended listening to your guys' show and he knows a little bit about credit cards and credit debt. He just, you know, figured he'd start with you guys, you know, maybe some quite helpful tips here, you know. How much Speaker 1 (11:46) do you make a year? Speaker 4 (11:49) So right now I have it jotted down. I'm still getting comfortable with, you know, just the other day was honestly my first years of 28 years of living. I sat down and finally put the numbers in my face and made a budget with my little brother. He helped me made a whole spreadsheet on Microsoft and everything. So we cracked some numbers down. We're going to reconvene in another couple of days just because it was kind of a lot to put in his face. But right now I make about $3,000 a month. That's what I know. I have two good jobs right now. And I make $3,000 a month and it's costing me around $2,700 to live. And that includes my monthly payments to those credit cards. And do you have a car? Do you have a car payment? I do not. I actually own my vehicle. Thank God. Good. Do you have any student loans? I do not have any student loans. Good. Okay. Speaker 1 (12:34) What are you doing for work? What are the two jobs? Speaker 4 (12:37) So, honestly, I work in the cannabis industry over here in Rhode Island. It's a very booming industry, especially with Massachusetts being close. I work in both markets, both Rhode Island and Massachusetts. I work retail in one, and then I work in cultivation in the other. Speaker 2 (12:54) And they're making a lot of money and you're not. Speaker 4 (12:59) Yeah, yeah, you could say that, yeah. From one spot, I work inventory in the other spot, and I see the numbers at one place. Yeah, they make a lot Speaker 2 (13:07) of money in your night. Speaker 4 (13:09) Oh, yes, it is, Mr. B. And Speaker 2 (13:11) so the, I mean, your issue is that your income is low. And the answer to your credit card interest rate. is to increase your income dramatically. And so what you're going to have to do is shift a career, make some career shifts that are pretty dramatic. And your number of hours are going to increase because your income, if you doubled your income, obviously that's $3,000 more a month. And you put that on 23,000 in eight months, you're out of debt. And we don't worry about interest rates anymore, but you're, there is not a hack. for paying off $23,000 a credit card debt at $300 a month. There's no hack. Even if the interest rate was zero, you're going to be dead before you get these things paid off at zero, at $300 a month. That's $3,600 a year against $23,000. So you don't have an interest rate problem. You've got an income problem. Speaker 1 (14:14) Yeah. So I'm wondering, Jared, though, for real, From a career standpoint, you're 28. Is that right? Is that what you said? Speaker 3 (14:22) Yes. Speaker 1 (14:22) Yes. You know, I mean, it's kind of the point in life where, okay, what do I want to be? What do I want to do with my life where I have a sustaining career where you are making 60 grand a year? Speaker 2 (14:33) Yep. Or 160. I don't care. Or Speaker 1 (14:36) 160. Speaker 2 (14:36) But Speaker 1 (14:36) just at least, you know, getting to that point. So the income is going to be, yeah, it is going to be because it's $800 a month. Is that what you said that you're paying? Speaker 4 (14:45) Yeah. Yeah. Between one 600 and the other one's 200. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1 (14:49) So and also you're still using the two. Correct. Speaker 4 (14:55) Yes, and I'm at the point where I don't want to, but I have to dip into them to cover some expenses, to cover a bill or something of that nature. I'm done with putting random expenses on it like I have been all these years, going like a crazy cool again and having fun. Speaker 2 (15:12) It's a harsh reality that you started facing, and the good news is, having done what we do, listening to you, we know that personal finance is 80 % behavior. And I will tell you that you are using the proper language, the words you're using, the way you're forming your sentences to talk to us tells us that you are ready to change. You are sick and tired of being sick and tired. And you feel stuck and you need a way out. And so this is grown-up time. Like you said, the party's over. And so we may have to, you know, you're going to have to do something different. for income. You don't have to do it in the next 20 minutes, but by Christmas, you need a different job. Speaker 2 (16:00) Okay. Because this one sucks. And you probably just need to get away from cannabis altogether. Hello. Yes. Yeah. Speaker 1 (16:11) He said the party's over. I was like, maybe not for Jared. Speaker 4 (16:16) No, Speaker 2 (16:16) no, Speaker 4 (16:17) no, no. Speaker 2 (16:17) I know, I know. But Speaker 1 (16:19) there's a great book by Ken Coleman that says, find the work you're wired to do. And there's an assessment in the back. But I do, I think. We're going to Speaker 2 (16:25) give it to you as a gift. Yeah. So Speaker 1 (16:27) yeah, yeah. Hang on the line. Christian will pick up. And we'll also Speaker 2 (16:29) sign you up for our budgeting app, which is really easier to use than a spreadsheet. Much easier to use. It's called Every Dollar, and we're going to give them both to you as a gift because we think you've got what it takes to do this. I think you can do this, sir. Speaker 4 (16:43) Wow. Hearing that from you guys and then the support system I have at home and you guys don't understand, this is just a big sigh of relief. This is one thing that's been bugging me my whole life and it's been this damn debt and I'm just ready to change. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Speaker 2 (16:58) You can do all this. It is going to require that you change jobs. And cutting up those credit Speaker 1 (17:03) cards. And it's hard to. You cut them Speaker 2 (17:05) up and quit using them and you change jobs to get your income up. So I would pick up six part-time jobs right now, drop one of those bad ones, and then go look for a new full-time job that pays me double. I mean, crap, you can make more loading boxes at FedEx at Christmas than you're making right now, like double what you're making. Okay? So, I mean, ups in FedEx is getting ready to start hiring for Christmas. I know, people, it's not even Halloween, but get ready. I mean, here we are. Speaker 2 (17:31) And so you just got to start thinking differently. Like I need money. from a legal and moral source. I need money. And so I'm not suggesting breaking bad here, but I am just saying, I am saying, you know, you need money and you need to go get you some. And that's where I was. I was your age when I had this exact discussion with myself. Speaker 8 (17:56) I Speaker 2 (17:56) mean, I made Speaker 8 (17:57) a Speaker 2 (17:57) list of stuff I was working on that week that would bring in money that week. I didn't work on any nine-month strategies. I was just filed bankruptcy when I was 28. Rachel was a baby and I'm trying to feed this, these children. And my wife's looking at me like I've lost my mind because apparently I had, and I, things had to change. And I Speaker 8 (18:19) went to making, I made a list of stuff on a yellow pad and the things at the top of the Speaker 2 (18:24) list to do were things that brought in money that week. And it was just like my theme was not greed. It was desperation and need, but it was, I need money. And so don't talk to Speaker 8 (18:37) me unless you're talking about bringing some money by Friday. And that was my whole thing. And that was our first step to getting the devil away from the door. And you got to get the devil away from the door and its income for you, sir. Speaker 1 (18:49) And it's not continuing to go deeper in credit card debt, even for bills and like making it a challenge to say, OK, next month I may have to call some companies and shift when I have to pay this bill and that bill. But I'm going to have the cash going forward. Because as you continue to go back on that, that's just adding to the problem. You Speaker 2 (19:07) got Speaker 1 (19:07) to stop Speaker 2 (19:08) it. You Speaker 1 (19:08) have to stop it, which is going to be a painful 30 to 60 days. But that's where the desperation of the weekend jobs, the night shifts, all that. Speaker 8 (19:15) You know, you're exactly right. All the extra jobs. But also, if you're going to prioritize and not pay something, you pay food first, lights and water second, transportation third. So food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities are before you pay master. Speaker 2 (19:31) Before you pay your master. card The borrower's slave to the lender. The master card. Speaker 8 (20:07) If you're in a really bad debt situation, I know how scary that is. You might be getting harassed by debt collectors every day, threatened with lawsuits, and maybe you think bankruptcy is the only way out. I've been there. I remember feeling so scared I couldn't breathe. But it's not too late to get out of this mess. Contact Guardian Litigation Group. Guardian is not a call center. They're a real law firm. You get a real attorney assigned to you. So if a creditor sues, you're protected from day one, not scrambling to find legal representation when you're already in the middle of it. And Guardian only gets paid when your debt is negotiated and you accept the settlement. Guardian has helped over 55,000 people settle more than $600 million in debt. That's why I trust them and send people their way. The longer you wait, the fewer options you have, the more expensive it gets. But it doesn't have to end that way. Guardian can defend you. Go to guardianlit.com slash Ramsey. That's guardianlit.com slash Ramsey or click the link in the description. Attorney advertising. Results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Speaker 2 (21:32) Jeremiah is in Atlantic City. Hi Jeremiah, how are you? Speaker 4 (21:37) Hi, how you doing, Dave? Thanks for having me on. Sure. What's up? Hey, just in a situation right now where I'm making $85,000 base, but commuting around two to two and a half hours. So like four to five hours round trip for a job three days a week. My dad recently got sick and he's okay now though, but I'm going to find something closer to home. It's just been kind of tough and wearing me out, just kind of reaching like a point of burnout. Speaker 8 (22:10) Yeah. You spend five hours a day in the car. Unless the car is your job. So why don't you just move over where the job is? Um, Speaker 2 (22:19) my Speaker 4 (22:20) dad got sick, uh, and they used to do, uh, pretty well in the corporate world, but they don't have, uh, much of a retirement. So, you know, just as a young person, uh, Speaker 2 (22:32) my parents. Speaker 2 (22:35) So you have to take care of your parents? Speaker 4 (22:39) They've taken care of me. We're kind of like a close family unit. As of now, I'm an only child. How old are you? 28. Speaker 2 (22:50) So why can't you move out and move to your job? I'm sorry, I don't understand. Speaker 4 (22:55) All right. Speaker 4 (22:57) I've been in some sales roles where I've found that it's been a little bit unstable, no matter if you push pretty hard. And unless you get a roommate, it's just a little bit risky with ultimately the cost of living nowadays. I have been getting a hotel one night a week, but I know that that can eat up a pretty good amount. But I hear the path of what you're saying. Speaker 2 (23:28) Okay. Well, I'm in. Speaker 2 (23:34) Is the job that you currently have, what are you selling where you currently work? They make 85 base plus commission. Speaker 4 (23:41) So I'm in commercial insurance. Speaker 2 (23:44) How long have you been doing that? About six months. Okay. And is it, I mean, do you have a quota that you're supposed to be hitting and you're not hitting? Is there some kind of... Speaker 4 (23:57) I haven't been selling yet. I pulled a couple policies for $120,000, but nothing's guaranteed in the sales world or just kind of what I've experienced in the past. You know, I should Speaker 2 (24:15) keep pushing with it. No, that's not, you're not understanding what I'm asking. I'm asking why you don't think this is stable. And you've been there six months and you've made two sales. Speaker 2 (24:26) No, no sales yet. Speaker 1 (24:29) So what are you doing? Speaker 4 (24:33) I'm trying to make sales. I'm making calls. But, you know, when you pull the policy, it's just a little bit of a longer sales process. Speaker 1 (24:42) So did you take this job, Jeremiah, knowing about the commute in the first place? Speaker 4 (24:47) Yeah, Speaker 2 (24:47) sure. Speaker 4 (24:48) I did. I was getting low on funds after a layoff from a tech company. And my dad got sick, so I just kind of... you know, took the first thing I had and, and kind of jumped into it, uh, after, you Speaker 2 (25:05) know, three months hospital sent. Okay. Are you healed now? Are you okay physically? I'm okay. I'm just pushing. But you have a job that's not going to survive is what you're telling me. Because they're not going to keep paying you $85,000 a year to pull two policies over six months. I can promise you. Speaker 4 (25:25) Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. They're going to fire your butt. Well, yeah, and some other sales roles I've pushed pretty hard, like just tried to make the most money I could. And, you know, I've done well but overextended myself at times. There's local jobs near me, though. They just don't pay nearly enough. You know, the plan was to move to the city, you know, ultimately where the... it's a little more feasible to earn more. Speaker 2 (25:58) Okay, so there are no jobs, there are no careers that don't involve stress. unless you make $20 an hour and somebody tells you what to do every day. Pick that up, set that down. But if you're going to go make $100,000 a year, it involves stress, it involves risk, it involves you getting up, leaving the cave, killing something, and dragging it home. And welcome to the world of adulthood. There's anxiety involved. Okay? Yes, sir. You've got to get a callus, and you've got to get out there and bust it. And I'm not sure this job's going to last because I can't hear. what is going on that's that if I'm your employer why I would keep you um because you're going to have to produce more than you're producing and every time I talk about that you just talk about uh stress and risk and all these things instead of and I can just push harder well yeah that's that's welcome to selling you you knock doors and you sell stuff so I think you just took this job because you fell backwards into it and you were desperate You had nothing to do with you wanted to be in the insurance business, had nothing to do with you wanted to work for that company. There was nothing exciting about this except they gave you a check on Friday, and you took a J-O-B. That's what it sounds like to me. That's how you've described it. And so you need a new job, and the new job needs to involve something you care about and something that you're willing to push for because you care about it. And, you know, you're selling ads to advertisers on The Ramsey Show. and you believe in the Ramsey Show, and it's your job to go get some advertisers on this. And if you don't, then you don't get to work here because that's your job. And, you know, that kind of thing. But you care about it, and you can go get it done. And it's not a matter of being pushy. It's a matter of having a good product that you love, that you can represent with integrity, and then you serve people by giving it to them and letting them give you money for it. And that's selling. Selling is serving. It's not pushing. It's pulling. Speaker 1 (27:53) Yeah, and the family dynamic is something I'm thinking about too, Jeremiah. You've got to Speaker 2 (27:57) get out of there. Speaker 1 (27:57) Yeah, and you feel the weight of being an only child. And I don't know what the family dynamic, if there's pressure from them to you to stay close to take care of or if they're really needing help. I don't know. I would be questioning and pushing on that scenario too to allow you then to move if you need to and to be a 28-year-old guy who's trying to make it. And that may not always be the case if you have one foot somewhere that you have to be. Speaker 2 (28:25) I desperately, after talking to you for a few minutes, love you, and I want you to build some muscles. I want you to build some muscles from doing some lifting. And the muscles are to operate in the marketplace and to operate as a stand-alone 28-year-old man. Speaker 2 (28:41) And you take care of your parents when they are in trouble. You run over from your place and stop by and make sure mom and dad are okay. But you're not hanging out there from some emotionally needy situation. Instead, you're like a man with square shoulders and you're out there in the marketplace doing stuff. Well, Speaker 1 (28:59) and I'll tell you, now's the time to do it. Yeah, it's Speaker 2 (29:02) a Speaker 1 (29:02) good time. Because you're single. You're young. Like, this is it. Like, when you start to... Enter into a relationship, a marriage, you got kids, you got a thousand things pulling at you. Right now, it's you, Jeremiah. It's the simplest it's going to be right now in life. So Speaker 2 (29:16) we'll give you another copy of that book. Speaker 1 (29:20) Find the Work You're Wired to Do. Speaker 2 (29:21) Find the Work You're Wired to Do and take that assessment. And I want you to stop and think about, okay, what does the 48-year-old version of Jeremiah look like in his career? Speaker 2 (29:32) And what are the steps to get there? Who do I want to be when I'm 48? When the 48-year-old version that has some emotional muscle and character, that man, Jeremiah, is standing over there 20 years from today looking back at this 28-year-old, what's going to make that guy smile at you right now? Who do you want to be? And, you know, you're starting to set goals. And you're saying, I'm going to step into a career with intentionality that's in my giftings, and I'm not going to fall backwards into it, and mommy's not going to fold my underwear anymore. Now I'm going to have my own place, and I'm going to be a man, and I'm going to go out here and do stuff. And that's what I want for you. I mean, you've had some stuff that's knocked you down. You've got a few scars and a few hurt places, a few bruised places emotionally. Me too. When I was your age, I was bankrupt with two kids. So I get it. I understand it's scary. But I want you to get a healthy level of desperation and go kill something and drag it home. Speaker 6 (31:18) Hey, I want to talk to you for a second about love and not love like in Titanic or something. I mean responsible love, the kind of love that moves you to take care of the people closest to you. And one of the most important ways to show that kind of love is by having term life insurance. If you have anyone depending on you, a spouse, kids, anyone. you need term life insurance. Term life insurance gives your family real protection if the unthinkable happens so they can spend their time grieving and not worrying about how the bills are going to get paid. Zander is a broker who works for you, shopping the top companies to find the right coverage options for your needs and your budget. In many cases, there are options available with no medical exam and instant approval. My wife and I had term life insurance through Zander for years, long before I worked at Ramsey, because we trust them. Getting term life insurance is a way of