Wisdom Starts Where Debt Ends

The Ramsey Show

George Kamel and Rachel Cruze tackle listener questions on debt, financial freedom, and lifestyle changes after paying off a mortgage. They

Key takeaways

• Paying off a low-interest mortgage can provide peace of mind even if it means missing out on potential market gains.
• Having $100k in savings with no debt creates significant freedom but requires disciplined budgeting to avoid lifestyle creep.

Main topics

• Paying off mortgage vs. investing
• Lifestyle creep after debt freedom

Notable quotes

The peace you will feel is unimaginable. Your risk will go down. Your margin will go up.

Conclusion

Financial freedom begins with discipline, planning, and emotional awareness—especia

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:04) Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Speaker 7 (0:15) Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz. This hour, we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Isabella kicks us off in Washington, D.C. Isabella, welcome to the show. Speaker 5 (0:38) Hi, thank you so much. Absolutely. We are currently paying over $5,000 a month in bills right now. And in a few months, we're going to be moving and then paying less than $1,000 in bills. And we're hoping that you guys have some advice on maybe budgeting better. We're worried we're going to see a significant drop in our bills, which leads to an increase in, I guess, our bank account. And I'm worried we're going to see that money and be like, Wow, now we can buy all these things that we want and go out to dinner, and this is great, and we're 27, you know, so I'm worried that we're Speaker 7 (1:19) going Speaker 5 (1:19) to want to spend it. What life hack did you find Speaker 7 (1:21) to cut your expenses down by 80 %? Speaker 5 (1:25) So in 2020, I bought a property, a two-bed, two-bath condo, and the mortgage, I put over 60 % down on it, and the mortgage is $300 a month. So we're moving into it. Speaker 1 (1:39) So it's the mortgage that you're basically giving up, that $4,000? Speaker 5 (1:45) Yes. The rent in Washington, D.C. is insane. Speaker 7 (1:50) What's your household income? Speaker 5 (1:53) It's about $10,000 a month. Speaker 7 (1:55) Great. So you have $5,000 in expenses. So you should already have $5,000 left over, life as it is. Speaker 5 (2:01) Yes, but then, of course, Washington, D.C. is expensive, and it's groceries, and just life in general. So that doesn't count groceries. Are you guys moving Speaker 1 (2:12) out of D.C. then? We are, yeah. We're moving to Hilton Hood Island, which is where the property is. Oh, gotcha. Well, that's wonderful. That sounds nice. Rachel's jealous. That sounds nice. Speaker 7 (2:24) Okay, so your income stays the same at $10,000, but your bare-bones expenses go down to $1,000. Speaker 5 (2:31) Yeah. Speaker 7 (2:31) And you're worried you're just going to spend the difference instead of do something smart with it. Speaker 5 (2:36) I am very worried. And then I'm questioning, do we try to pay off the rest of the house? I mean, we have $40,000 left on it, but if it's only $300 a month mortgage, is it smart to pay that off? I think at 3 % interest, it's making more. Speaker 7 (2:54) Making more where? Speaker 5 (2:56) If we put it in the stock market, I think it would make more there, wouldn't it? Speaker 7 (3:01) Well, there's a lot of ifs here. Number one, you're not investing right now. Number two, we're hoping the market is up consistently, which over time it's going to go up and to the right, but there's going to be years where it could be down 20%. And so there's a guaranteed rate of return, which is paying down your mortgage systematically. And then there's the variable of we could make money in the market. So I want to make that part clear. Speaker 7 (3:24) So the second part here, do you guys have any other debt outside of this mortgage? Speaker 5 (3:30) Nope, nothing. Speaker 7 (3:31) Amazing. And you guys have savings? Speaker 5 (3:34) Oh, yeah. We have over $100,000 in savings. Oh, wow. $100,000. Sorry, not $100,000. $100,000. $100,000 in savings and no Speaker 7 (3:41) debt. So you could pay off the house today and still have $60,000 left over. Speaker 5 (3:45) Oh, absolutely. Speaker 7 (3:46) What's stopping you? Speaker 5 (3:49) Where is that $100,000? Speaker 1 (3:51) Where is the $100,000 right now? So your point about making more is not really a point because that $100,000, just in a regular savings account, it's making like a little over 1%, even less than 1%. Is Speaker 7 (4:07) it in a high-yield savings? Speaker 1 (4:08) Yeah. Speaker 1 (4:10) I'd have to ask him. I bet it's just in a traditional savings. All right. Well, Speaker 7 (4:14) I'll tell you what I would do if I was in your shoes. It's besides the point from your question, but I would pay off the mortgage today, be completely debt-free, house and everything. The peace you will feel is unimaginable. Your risk will go down. Your margin will go up, even if it's by $300. And now you guys are making $10K with $700 in expenses. Speaker 7 (4:33) That's pretty wild. So here's what I would do to force yourself to do the smart thing, to eat the vegetables first, as we say, is to auto transfer that money somewhere where you can't touch it. And for you guys, since you'll be in what we call Baby Step 7 with a paid-for house, that could be two investments every month. Speaker 1 (4:48) And you're saying the $4,000. And margin that they're going to get. You would direct it, too. Speaker 7 (4:54) Well, if you have $10,000 coming in and only $1,000 in expenses, you might go, we should upgrade our life in some ways. Yeah, I Speaker 1 (4:59) was going to say, I think you can do all the above, Isabella, honestly. I would. If I woke up in your shoes, I would write a check. I'd be done with a mortgage. I mean, and if you hate us, you can take out another one later if you'd like. But I would pay it off. And then from there, really, I mean, the uptick on lifestyle, and this is true if you're getting a lifestyle increase like you guys are, or if you're getting a massive raise or people that change jobs and they see this, it's good to be in a practice and a flow of three things, of giving, saving, and spending. Okay? So when we're talking about the saving. You need, yeah, you guys need to be putting some away in savings. You need that rhythm in your life. And that will be for retirement investing. That will be for short-term savings because you guys may want to upgrade things in the house in two years, right? And you'll just continue to take that, what would be what, 60 grand in a savings account and just continue to up that. I mean, I would. And then increase your lifestyle a little bit. It's okay to spend some. It is okay to go out to eat at this point in your life, Isabella. So you're fine. You've earned Speaker 7 (6:01) it. And you guys are only 27. The amount of wealth you're going to build is astounding. So Speaker 1 (6:04) enjoy it. And then, Isabella, I really would encourage you, you guys need to be giving. Have that in a rhythm. Because as your income increases, you're going to see your spending will increase, your savings will increase. And if that giving element is not there in a rhythm. then life long term starts to become pretty dull and can become very self inward looking. And that's it. And that's a pretty empty life. And so that giving component is, I think it is, it's so big. Yeah, no, I definitely agree. So enjoy some of it, save some of it, give some of it. And I think you guys are going to, you guys are going to do great. Have Speaker 7 (6:42) you guys ever sat down and done a budget together? Speaker 5 (6:47) throwing it back and forth here and there, but we've never actually sat down, pen to paper, this is Speaker 1 (6:52) how much goes here type of thing. Okay, that'll make you feel better too. I Speaker 7 (6:55) think you don't even know how many thoughts and feelings you have around this. And once you put it into the budget, you're going to go, oh my gosh, I can't believe we've never done this before. It feels so much better just knowing where the dollars are going to go before the paychecks hit. That's the key to preventing lifestyle creep is having a plan for that money before your emotions have a plan for the money, before... Companies have a plan for your money. The Instagram ad has a plan for your money. Ouch. Sorry, Rachel. That was personal. But you guys are doing great. If anything, it sounds like you need to let loose a little more. Speaker 1 (7:27) Yes. And I think your question is a good one just in the motivation of it. Because for so many people that are listening, their money is such a question mark of like, I don't know. I'm fearful of this over here. I don't want to do this. I feel like that's too much. Is it okay to do this? It's all these questions. And honestly, Isabella, a detailed budget and working through it, it answers a lot of those for you. where you feel there's not questions because there's a plan. And so if you hold in line, we'll give you every dollar, and we'll give you the premium version, even though you'll be fine. She can afford it. She can afford it, but I'm going to give it to you as a friend because I do. I want you and your husband to sit down and do that budget because you will see in every dollar the first line item is giving, the second is savings, and then all of your expenses underneath. And when you live your life in that order, especially at 27, on Baby Step 7. I mean, it's insane. Insane. You're just putting good practices in place financially. You Speaker 7 (8:25) build these muscles now, nothing's stopping you guys. We're so proud of you. Well done. What a good place to be. Speaker 1 (9:17) isn't insurance. It's a health cost-sharing ministry. That means members help pay one another's medical bills, and they've been serving Christians since 1981. CHM programs start at just $115 a month. And here's why that matters. If you are paying more than you need to for health care, that money could be going toward paying off debt, building your emergency fund, or reaching your next financial goal. And your monthly cost isn't based on your medical history or where you live. Y'all, a lot of families find CHM gives them more room in the budget. That's why so many members say they're better with CHM. And right now, new members can receive a 50 % credit towards their first month of membership. Go to chministries.org slash budget and use promo code Ramsey. That's chministries.org slash budget and promo code Ramsey. Speaker 7 (10:24) Chase is in Birmingham up next. Chase, what's going on? Speaker 7 (10:29) Hey, how you doing? We're doing well. How can we help today? Hey, thank Speaker 8 (10:33) you for taking my call. My wife is definitely not going to believe that I talked to y'all today. Are Speaker 7 (10:37) you going to tell her? Is she going to find out? Speaker 8 (10:40) She is definitely going to find out. Yes, we've actually been going back and forth and she's like, I'm going to call today. And, you know, she's just kind of been so busy. Oh, but you beat her to it. Speaker 1 (10:49) Oh, see, Chase, here's what happens. The callers that call in, we tend to naturally side with them because they're the callers. We want to help them. So you've beat her to the punch. So you're thinking there's a good chance you're going to win the arguments because you called in. But we're going to try to. No. Speaker 8 (11:03) We're Speaker 1 (11:03) going to play fair. I don't think. Speaker 8 (11:04) I think she is going to win the argument. And, you know, I feel like I kind of already know the answer. But, you know, I just kind of, you know, I think it's just my. My flesh and kind of own greed that I'm dealing with, so I wanted to call. Got biblical real quick. All right. Get some knowledge and humbled, you know, because, you know, my wife's awesome, and I want to respect her in these financial decisions as well. Speaker 7 (11:30) Okay, so lay out Speaker 1 (11:30) the argument. Okay, what happened? What's going on? Speaker 8 (11:32) All right. I would say, well, not really a big argument. But anyway, so we just upgraded to a SUV, a bigger SUV. because we just had our second child. Congratulations. Thank you. She's going to be going part-time. So, of course, she's going to be having the little kiddos more often. So I just want to give her some space, more space. So anyway, I would say we upgraded. We got a 2021 SUV for about $23,000, I believe. And kind of even going back before this, kind of arguments have been, hey, let's pay off these vehicles, let's pay off these vehicles. And she's like, yes, and I'm like, no. And that's kind of just been going back and forth. Thankfully, we did go ahead and pay off my truck, so we only have one car payment. And so kind of trying to decide what we want to do going forward, given that she's going to be having a pay cut. And she is the one to... Swipe the debit card more often than me. It's Speaker 7 (12:38) a Speaker 8 (12:38) very nice way of putting it. And I know she's out on the show to defend herself, so that's all I'm going to say. Okay. She's probably the one buying a bunch of stuff for the house, Speaker 1 (12:46) too. We'll throw that out there. Speaker 7 (12:48) So the only debt you have is this $23,000 SUV loan? Yeah, yeah, just a loan. Okay. So Speaker 1 (12:54) what's the argument? How fast to pay it off? Speaker 8 (12:59) Or to go ahead and pay it off. You have the money. Oh, okay. Yes, yes, yes. How much do you have? Well, the money, so currently, we don't, and I kind of did this about four years ago, so I don't keep anything in our personal banking savings. I kind of like all my money to grow for us. So I kind of, you know, I won't say bank, or I'm with kind of like an Edward Jones type. company. So everything is growing in the market. So currently that we have in savings is about $130,000. And then additionally, we have two traditional accounts of about $20,000, $25,000 each. And of course, we have a couple of Roth accounts. Everything totaling right now to be about $190,000. with mostly $125 in savings. Speaker 7 (13:56) Okay. And you don't have anything in checking your savings except you're spending money for the month? Speaker 8 (14:02) So in savings, just in our personal banking, I keep about a $5,000 buffer for emergencies. But if you had an emergency above that, Speaker 7 (14:12) you would have to sell off some of your stocks and mutual funds from Edward Jones to fund it. That's correct, yes. Okay. Well, step one, I would encourage you to keep a full emergency fund outside of that in a high-yield savings account. And the market could do better, but, man, when you have an emergency, the market doesn't care about the timing. So if the market's down 5 % and you have to withdraw that money, it's going to hurt. It's going to add insult to injury along with fees and taxes. So I love that you want your money to grow, but I still would keep your emergency fund aside because it's not an investment. It is insurance against life. Sure. So once you do that, you have the money to pay the car off, and I would do it today. I don't know who's on what side. If your wife is saying, let's pay it off today, and you're going, oh, we got the money. What's the risk? It's a couple hundred bucks and a payment. We can stomach it. Is that your side? Speaker 8 (15:06) That's exactly my side. It comes out to about a $370 a month payment. And with that being our only, I mean, we have a house payment and a vehicle payment, and that's the only debt that we have. Speaker 8 (15:20) How come your wife is going part Speaker 7 (15:21) -time back to work? Is that because she wants to? Speaker 8 (15:25) So she's just a, and this is what I love about her, she's just such a godly woman, and she wants to be there for her kids more than work and just nurture the kids at home while they're young. Well, here's my case, Speaker 7 (15:37) Chase. Would she want to be home full-time? Speaker 8 (15:41) And that is definitely a goal in mind. Definitely. She would love to be home full-time. Yes, I would agree with that. Speaker 1 (15:51) But you guys can't from a financial perspective, though? It would be tight? I would Speaker 8 (15:55) say it'd be tight. It'd be doable. But, you know, like I said, I just don't think, you know, I got a toddler as well, so we're kind of getting her to some... extra curricular activities, and, you know, that's coming up. You got a little bit of daycare payments. And then you get into the talks of when she starts kindergarten, are we going to homeschool or private school? Sure, yeah, you just want Speaker 1 (16:22) options. I get that. No, that's not bad. You can be a godly woman and work part-time, too. So it's great. I bet she is a fantastic mother. So what I would do, honestly, Chase, is for sure, I would be paying that. I just paid this off. And I would move what George was saying, some money, maybe three months. You may not need a ton, but I would up that $5,000 and have at least a three-month emergency fund there in case something happens. It's just it. it's there and you don't have to go through the hoops of taking out investments and selling and all of that. So that is, it's, it's the clearest plan. And my question to you is, have you guys ever bought a car in cash or have you always taken out a loan and then eventually paid it off? Speaker 8 (17:05) Yes. No, it's always just been a loan and just pay it off, you know, as far as we can. It would be an interesting experiment Speaker 1 (17:10) because like you're saying the 370, it's not going to, it's not going to kill you guys, but this is the part about. money and debt specifically that you can't put into a calculator or an Excel sheet is the absolute freedom of just owning your stuff and not owing. And we actually have some great friends and they could easily afford the car payment. They always kind of had, it's just kind of always what they've done. And then they paid off their cars. And he was laughing at me a little bit because I mean, he knows what I do. I don't like. I don't like rub it in my friend's faces by any means. And he was like, man, I didn't really realize just how good that feels. Like not to, like it's our car, it's ours. And we're not attached to any loan department, any bank in it. And so there's an emotional piece to this chase that actually is going to free you guys up. And what that unleashes, spiritually, I do wonder if it creates more. Speaker 1 (18:13) creativity for you guys and your options in life? And does that free you all from a deeper level to be like, no, if she really desires to be home more, like, do you figure out an easier way to get there? Right. Where it's not just all math. There's something emotional about it. Speaker 7 (18:26) Yeah. You guys are speaking two different languages and you're missing each other because of that. You're logic and math and she's emotion and freedom and risk and security. And because of that, I don't think you're going to find a compromise if you keep talking the way you guys are talking. Speaker 8 (18:41) Right. Speaker 7 (18:43) So here's what I did, because I've been in your shoes, Chase. My wife retired after nine years here at Ramsey. She now stays home with our kids. I love that Speaker 1 (18:49) you say retired. She retired. Well, I don't know if she's going to work again. My Speaker 7 (18:53) goal is that she never has to go to an office again. But Chase, part of that was we got the home paid off and we didn't talk about, well, it's a three point. I could make more in the market if we put it there. We just went, we're going to have more options and more peace and more margin, more freedom if we just get rid of all of our debt. And that's what happened. And we just upgraded to the minivan life because we got two little ones. And it was some grieving on her part to get rid of that SUV. But I'll tell you, walking in there and just writing a check and just leaving with a 0 % interest rate, $0 a month is the best feeling in the world. And Speaker 1 (19:26) I'll throw this out there, Chase, because you brought it up, so I'll go there. But when you look in Scripture, there is nothing positive about debt ever. And it's not a sin. It's not a salvation issue. There is nothing that points debt and wisdom in the same category. There's not. And so if you want to live a life with wisdom with your money and you want to follow, whether it's Proverbs, the Old Testament, whatever, wherever you want to pull from, it says over and over that the borrower is slave to the lender and that there is wisdom and not owing people, but actually owning your own stuff. Speaker 4 (20:14) If you're serious about building a business, you need an easy way for customers to buy from you. Yeah, that sounds obvious, but a lot of business owners leave money on the table. Not because their product isn't good, but because the buying experience is broken or complicated. Shopify fixes that. With Shopify, you can build a professional storefront and get it in front of your customers. No coding, no technical headaches, and when your customers are ready to buy, Shopify's purple shop pay button is one of the best converting checkouts in the world, which means fewer abandoned carts and more sales. 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And if you filed an extension, your tax situation is maybe a little more complicated or you feel overwhelmed, get a pro in your corner before October 15th. That way you're not battling the IRS on your own. You can make a game plan for your unique situation or business. And if you want to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by our team, go to ramsaysolutions.com slash tax pro. You can also get free checklists and guides that'll help you file at ramsaysolutions.com slash tax resources. And we will link all three of those down in the description of this episode. Tony is in West Palm Beach up next. Tony, welcome to the show. Speaker 2 (22:43) Good afternoon. How are you guys doing? We're doing well. How can we help? So in February, I paid off my house. Speaker 7 (22:50) Awesome. Speaker 2 (22:52) And it was definitely a big accomplishment. But I just feel like I thought it would be more freedom than I have. How much did you pay off and Speaker 7 (23:09) how quickly? Speaker 2 (23:11) I paid off, it was... Speaker 2 (23:16) 110,000 in about two and a half, three years, closer to three years. Wow. Way to go. Why did you do that? Um, actually I listened to you guys about five years ago. I started listening to you guys. And, um, that was my start journey of like, I got to get this together. And, um, I mean, I was, um, I bought my house back in 2009. So my payment was never really that high. Speaker 2 (23:53) And so I just kept, you know, once I heard you guys, I started putting more money toward it. I had a piece of property I bought when I was like 20 years old. And I used that also toward it to pay off my... You sold that property? Yeah, I sold it. And just tried to pay off all the first, like you guys can say, pay off like the little bill, like the smallest bill and work your way. And once I got those first ones out of the way, I really started trying to put as much as I could toward the house. I was also with that property. I had thought about using that investment down the line, but I said, what's the best investment is my house. If I can have that paid off, you know, that's a big step. But the house is paid off and I'm trying to invest. I feel like I'm very, I'm 43 years old and I'm a little late. I have a pension and my job, but I'm kind of late as far as like investing. Speaker 2 (24:53) you know, like a 457. I have an IRA outside of work, but I just feel like I'm kind of down. Like when you hear people say, Oh, I have 300,000 and I have this much, I have like 60,000 in between all my accounts. So I get nervous thinking I'm 43, you know, we'll have enough time investing. I have three daughters, one in high school, one in middle school, one in elementary school. And it's like, you know, I haven't put any, money really yet toward college. So I started getting like, you know, a little worried about. So Speaker 7 (25:29) you're just overwhelmed in general because you thought paying off the house would somehow solve all of the other problems. It would solve retirement. It would solve college funding. It would give you purpose. But all it did was it gave you freedom and peace and some extra margin. And so that's a step toward it, but it's not the whole picture. And so it's okay. What you're feeling is normal. Okay. You're not behind. I know it feels like it because there's someone else has more than you. But man, the good news is it's not a race where there's 1 million people running. It's just Tony's race. Gotcha. And there's going to be times where it's slow and there's going to be times where it's fast. There's going to be seasons where it's crazy because your cash flow in college. And there's going to be seasons where you wish you had something to save for. Gotcha. Are you married? Yes. Okay. How Speaker 1 (26:15) much did you guys make a year, Tony? Speaker 2 (26:18) $172,000. Speaker 1 (26:20) Okay. Speaker 2 (26:21) I mean, it sounds crazy. I should be able to, you know, put more money. Like, I shouldn't be as, you know, kind of. Speaker 2 (26:46) How much do Speaker 7 (26:48) you have left in savings? Speaker 2 (26:50) About $12,000. So now I'm trying to put, you know. Were you investing? Speaker 1 (26:56) You have $60,000 invested, you said. So have you been investing in the last five years after you paid off your consumer debt too? You've been putting money away? Speaker 2 (27:05) I was only putting like $200. I was putting like eight, I was putting about 800 a month. And then I went down because I said my goal was I could see the light at the end of the tunnel here that I can get this house paid off. So I stopped really putting too much in investment and investing and tried to really push to get the house done. But then, you know, time, like they say, time. helps for investing and I feel like I kind of cut myself short but I guess I can try to make it up now well you Speaker 1 (27:33) can so at this point now that you're on baby step seven which is to build wealth and be generous so if you invested even if you went back to our 15 which you can invest more and say you have 60,000 saved now say you put 2,000 in a month okay which would be $24,000 a year and you do that for 25 years, then that's going to be $4 million at retirement. Oh, okay. With a paid-off house. How much is the house worth today? Speaker 8 (28:03) About $700. Speaker 1 (28:04) Okay. Well, and in 25 years, you'll be, gosh, close to probably have a $6 million net worth at that point. And Speaker 7 (28:12) that's less than 15 % of your gross household income. Is the written numbers Rachel just calculated. And you only put in that. Speaker 1 (28:18) What would you do? $2,500 a month? Let's just have fun with this. What would you say? Speaker 7 (28:22) It would be, let's see, $2,500, $8,000 divided by $12,000. $2,150 would be exactly 15%. Okay, Speaker 1 (28:27) I was close, Torrance. Yeah, I was just saying. Speaker 7 (28:30) I'm saying Rachel's being conservative. You're being a little conservative. By Speaker 1 (28:33) $100 a month, Tony, I was being conservative. Let's do it. Okay, hold on, hold on. Let's just stop it just for the fun of it. $2,150. Okay, Speaker 7 (28:39) there we go. Speaker 2 (28:40) $4.2. All Speaker 1 (28:42) right, we're getting up there. Speaker 2 (28:44) I only put $1,200 right now. Yeah, you got to Speaker 1 (28:46) up that, Tony. So I think that is a little, okay, and you paid off your house, which is incredible. But that is one reason we talk about baby steps four, five, and six. We don't jump from paying off consumer debt straight to paying off the mortgage because you want to take care of retirement, and that's 15 % of your income. So if you had been doing that over the last 15 years or the last five years since listening, you would have more, which is fine. I mean, you're growing to be okay. And kids college. We talk about that next. Like you need to be putting money away for kids college and then throw extra at the house. So if you had waited just in a different scenario and another four, five years to pay off the house and instead did these other buckets, I do wonder if it would have felt less extreme. It would have probably felt a little bit more in rhythm with your life. Right. But it's not. Bad thing, Tony. But I think I could see how if you go straight there, you pay everything off and then you're like, oh, my gosh, I have college and retirement. These two big buckets that are very legitimate. So that feeling you have is real. And I'm not negating that. But I also want to encourage you. Yes, if you fund and again, baby step seven, you can invest more than 15 percent of your income. Right. So even if you went up to 20 percent, once the kids are Speaker 7 (29:59) out of college and you've helped. cover as much as you can from that, you'll be upping that to 30, 40 % of your income. Speaker 1 (30:05) Yeah, Speaker 7 (30:05) you Speaker 1 (30:05) could throw so much in investments at that point. And then you have a paid-off house, too, Tony, at the end of this, right? Plus a Speaker 7 (30:10) pension, plus Social Security. Speaker 1 (30:12) Yeah, and a lot of people going into retirement still have a mortgage, and that's a big thing that they try to take care of before retirement. And, yeah, you're done with that at 43, which is pretty remarkable. Thanks. Speaker 2 (30:25) Yeah, just... Speaker 2 (30:27) If I probably would have done it the other way around, it would have been a lot. At least those bases are covered, but you're still... Speaker 1 (30:33) Yeah, Speaker 2 (30:34) but Speaker 1 (30:36) that's okay. It's okay. You said Speaker 7 (30:39) about $2,100 a month? $2,100 a month. Yes, Speaker 1 (30:44) to invest. That's the goal. Roth IRAs. I don't know if you can remember who said he had 401ks work-wise. But yeah, to find some investments to put that in. And yeah, you'll be great. You'll have four million. The biggest thing is stop Speaker 7 (30:58) beating yourself up over what you could have done differently. You got the rest of your life ahead of you. The windshield is bigger than the rearview mirror for a reason. So you got this, Tony. Keep fighting the good fight. Speaker 4 (31:30) Let me tell you what I get asked all the time. When should I get... Term life insurance. How much do I need? Is it affordable? Those are the right questions to be asking. So let's take a quick review. The fact is, term life isn't a baby step. So if anyone is dependent on your income, you need to have 10 to 12 times your income in life insurance now. 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