The Hard Road Leads to Freedom

The Ramsey Show

Rachel Cruze and Jade Warshaw navigate a diverse array of financial crises, ranging from massive consumer debt and inheritance disputes to b

Key takeaways

• Sarah's $150k student loan and $62k credit card debt situation highlights the difficulty of escaping high-interest consumer debt through bankruptcy alone.
• For business owners like Joel, growing at the 'speed of cash' is recommended over leveraging lines of credit to maintain autonomy and peace.

Main topics

• Consumer debt management
• Inheritance and estate planning

Notable quotes

Normal is broke and common/common sense is weird.

Conclusion

The episode reinforces that financial peace comes from disciplined, ca

Transcript preview

Speaker 8 (0:01) you Speaker 8 (0:04) Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Speaker 1 (0:13) Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw and we are taking your calls about life and money. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. First up, we have Sarah in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the show. Hi, how are you? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today? Speaker 5 (0:44) So my question is whether or not Chapter 13 bankruptcy is the only way or I Speaker 6 (0:50) guess the best way for my husband and I to get out of substantial debt. Okay. What's going on? What are your numbers? So over the last three to Speaker 5 (0:59) five years, we've basically accumulated $62,000 of credit card debt, $28,000 in loans between house repairs and personal loans. We have a $210,000 mortgage balance. We have about $150,000 in student loans and car leases that are about $11,000 annually. Whew. Speaker 2 (1:23) Okay. Can you tell me the very first one you said in that list first? I didn't get that one written down. Credit card is about $62,000. $62,000. Okay. Oh, my goodness. What happened that you guys got to this extent? I mean, obviously, the student loans speak for themselves, but the $62,000 in credit cards, the $28,000 in other personal loans, what happened? Did somebody lose a job? Speaker 5 (1:48) Well, the long story short is, We had our son about three and a half years ago, and I had pretty bad postpartum depression. We moved back in with my parents and sold our house. And the plan was to save money and have help, but it was not emotionally feasible. So after about eight months, we bought the first house that we could get an offer accepted on and pretty much put most of our savings down, which made our housing go more than double. We had a beautiful COVID interest rate beforehand. So pretty much our expenses doubled from there. And then just things just getting out of hand in terms of. the cost of living. And I wouldn't say keeping up with the Joneses, but I would just say living, living like we still had half the expenses. Speaker 2 (2:40) Okay. And you still have that house? You're still in that same house? Speaker 6 (2:44) Yes. We just bought it about two and a half, three years ago. What do you guys make a year, Sarah? Speaker 2 (2:50) Our net income is $120,000. Okay. And what percentage of your take-home pay is that mortgage? Speaker 2 (2:58) Our Speaker 5 (2:59) mortgage is about $1,800 a month. And you take home how much? Speaker 2 (3:05) After Speaker 5 (3:06) tax? Monthly, it's about $10,000 after tax. Okay, Speaker 2 (3:09) so that's not the problem. Yeah, that's not terrible. The mortgage is not the problem. Have you started the student loans? It's $150,000. Are you paying on those or have you not been touching those? Speaker 5 (3:22) repayment plans right now. So we pay about $200 a month for those. And then the thing that's really killing us is about $2,800, $2,900 of minimum payments between all the credit cards and the personal loans. $2,100 in Speaker 2 (3:40) minimums? Okay. Speaker 5 (3:42) $2 Speaker 2 (3:42) ,900. Okay. And are you guys doing anything extra on the side at this point? Are you working extra hours? Are you working overtime? Tell me about Your free time? Speaker 5 (3:53) Currently, not really. We both work in business and finance. So about half the year, my husband works probably 70 hours a week. So he's not able to take on extra work. Okay. And I commute to work about an hour. So, you know, there's time loss there. I started to do some bookkeeping on the side, but that's not really lucrative. Right. Speaker 2 (4:17) So here's... And we do have a three-year-old. Yeah, you do. Here's where I'm at. I'm at, you can take the journey here and really change who you all are and who you are and how you operate as a family at a core level and clean this up. And I think it would be good for you. What I'm hearing right now, Sarah, is... I understand how you got here. I'm not a fan of how you got here, but I understand how you got here. But I'm still hearing a lot of reasons why nothing can change. And I think that if you don't address that, that's going to be the hardest part for you. You've got to get to this point where you're like, I don't care what it takes. I'm going to fix this. I don't care if I'm exhausted. I don't care if I have to pick different side jobs that I hate because they make more. I don't care if we have to start looking for jobs. I don't care if we have to sell the house. I don't care. I just want to be free. And right now I feel like you're still, well, we can't do that because we have kids. Well, we can't do that because of this. Speaker 1 (5:18) Yep. And the 150 student loans, are they government loans or are they private? They're federal. Okay, so they're not bankruptable. So you'd still have $150,000 of debt. And so I'm with Jade, and I'm sitting next to somebody who paid off close to half a million. You guys are at about that $250,000, $270,000 mark. And, I mean, Sarah, it's going to take you guys probably four to five years. It's Speaker 5 (5:43) going Speaker 1 (5:43) to take a long time. To get out of this mess. But what Jade is saying is, I don't know, there's a level of could you take... And I wouldn't say easy route because bankruptcy is hard. That's going to affect the rest of your life, right, if you end up doing that route. Just take that and be done. Or do you take some level of responsibility of it's been a hard road and life has thrown at us a lot of things, but we also put our names on some of this. Like we did walk into it, maybe for difficult reasons, but we did. walk into this and choose this. And there's something that changes. And Jade, you can speak to this because you and Sam, I mean, walk this road completely of this amount of years, right? This isn't, you know, Sarah, unfortunately, it's not a 18 month journey of like, hey, suck it up for a year. And you guys, I mean, this would be a, this is a, this is a. This is a marathon. Speaker 2 (6:40) So what we want to do, have you ever, you know, have you ever played the game Jenga and you have to pull out the block and put it on top and you have to test the block first to see if it'll even move? I feel like what we need to do with this stack of debt is test and see which block we can even move to get out of the way. And I'm looking at these car leases. That's one block that I think has enough movement to get rid of it. And I'm looking at the mortgage. I wonder if it's better for you guys. I don't know if there's equity there. I wonder if it's better for you guys to sell and rent for a while. looking at what you're paying a month, there could be something there. Do you have equity? Speaker 2 (7:14) I think it's about $65,000. Okay. And then tell me about the car leases. The car leases, one is Speaker 5 (7:24) actually up in December, which if we were going to do bankruptcy, we were only going to file myself, like my half, I guess, Speaker 6 (7:31) first. I Speaker 5 (7:34) guess we're Speaker 6 (7:34) just scared that if we both do it, then if something were to happen. What debt is in your name, Sarah? Speaker 5 (7:40) About half. Of the credit card and personal loan? Speaker 6 (7:44) Yes, we are only Speaker 5 (7:44) joint on the mortgage and the one loan for the basement repair. And Speaker 2 (7:49) see that even that for me feels like it's certainly not the right move because you're just not clearing enough. In my mind, you're not going to be able to clear enough of this debt. You're making a worse situation worse. Yes. And, Speaker 1 (8:00) you know, depending on income and everything, they may put you on a repayment plan. You know, some of this, depending on which bankruptcy chapter you guys. pursuer that you're eligible for. Right. Some of the time you're back on a payment. You're going to end up paying something at some point. You might as Speaker 2 (8:13) well pay to get Speaker 1 (8:13) out of debt and avoid bankruptcy. Speaker 2 (8:15) Yeah, I agree with that. So look at these car leases. If you know, if you have them and you can say, obviously, the one you're out in December, that's good. Do not go back in. Start saving up for a cash car now, I would say. And then for the other one, figure out what it costs to just, you know, buy the car out and then turn around and get a loan for that and then turn around and sell that car and then. save up cash for a next car. And even with the credit card, Speaker 1 (8:39) if some of it goes to collections, you can negotiate that too, down possibly. But call us back, Sarah, if you need us. I'm so sorry. It's going to be a long road ahead, but it's going to be the best road. Speaker 8 (9:01) If you're already enrolled in a Medicare plan, you might think there's nothing else to do. You're good to go. Wrong. The fact is, Medicare premiums, networks, prescription coverage, and benefits can all change, even if your health doesn't. So doing nothing could cost you hundreds or even thousands of dollars a year. With annual enrollment time coming soon, you need to talk to Chapter right away. Chapter is the only Ramsey-trusted Medicare advisor. and they save Ramsey fans an average of $1,100 a year. They explain your options simply and help make the smartest decision for your situation. And whether they find you a better plan or confirm you're already in the right one, chapter services don't cost you a thing. Medicare Annual Enrollment runs October 15th. through December 7th. So review your plan with Chapter now and avoid expensive mistakes later. To talk to the unbiased Medicare experts at Chapter, go to askchapter.org slash Ramsey or click the link in the description. That's askchapter.org slash Ramsey. Speaker 1 (10:24) Next up, we have Melody in Orlando, Florida. Hi, welcome to the show. Speaker 6 (10:31) Hi, Rachel and Jade. Speaker 7 (10:32) So I'm debt free and I make a good income and should be on baby step six where I'm paying off my mortgage early. I live in a new build community. I moved in about two years ago and our HOA is suing the builder due to building defects and the major... issue that they're looking at is water intrusion, which is obviously a huge problem being here in Florida with all the rain and the hurricanes. And I also only live in Florida because I want to be near my parents who are older and not in great health. But Florida in general is not my long-term plan. So my question is, I'm wondering if I should actually try to pay off my mortgage knowing that my house is probably rotting from the inside out. And I'm also not going to be in Florida long term anyways. Wanted to get your thoughts on that. Speaker 2 (11:29) Is everyone experiencing the water intrusion? Is it just a few homes? Have you experienced any issue thus far? Speaker 7 (11:37) I have experienced some issues. It does seem to be a problem across everyone's home to different degrees. Mine is more on the minor end, but still pretty serious. Just in general, we don't want any water intrusion. And it's probably going to be a couple of years before this litigation even ends where we could start getting funds to fix it. Speaker 2 (12:00) What does it take to fix it? Do you know what the solution is and what it costs, at least for you? Speaker 7 (12:08) No, not yet, because most of the issue seems to be the front of the house. So we live in townhomes, so it's like the front, the siding, underneath it, the waterproofing has all been like nailed through. So it's basically like a whole overhaul of the front of all of the buildings, and it would have to be done like at the community level because we're townhomes. Wow, wow. Speaker 6 (12:31) How much do you have left on the mortgage? Speaker 7 (12:35) So I have about 500K left on the mortgage. I bought it two years ago for 655. Speaker 1 (12:42) Okay. And you said that Florida is not going to be your long term. you know, home, do you know, do you have a timeframe on when you will probably move out? Will it be in like two years or like 10 years? Speaker 7 (12:59) I mean, I hate to say it this way. It's more dependent on how long my parents are going to be around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's fair. Speaker 6 (13:05) How old are they? Speaker 6 (13:07) They're in their 70s. Okay. So Speaker 1 (13:10) there's a good chance it could be. Speaker 1 (13:13) 10 plus years. Speaker 7 (13:15) Yeah, there's no real Speaker 1 (13:16) like Speaker 7 (13:17) definitive. Sure. Speaker 1 (13:18) Yeah. So if that's the case, and if you think you're going to be probably not moving out of your current home, do you think you'll be there for 10 years? Speaker 6 (13:31) Like if I had to guess, probably not like maybe five-ish years, but who knows? Yeah, because the ideal Speaker 1 (13:37) situation would be that the lawsuit goes through, they have to pay up the builder to whatever degree to fix whatever issue is going on. So it's not coming out of your pocket. And then you've been paying down the mortgage. And then when you move, there's some equity there. And it's a fixed home. It's a fixed townhome, right, in that situation. So that's the ideal. And there's still something about putting money into a property. Like, I don't know. I'm kind of even thinking, like, are you wanting to move right now? Like, if you get water damage and... you know, I'm thinking mold and like who knows what Speaker 6 (14:17) else could grow in the meantime. Do you feel good where you are? Speaker 7 (14:23) Well, the thing is, if I were to move, I probably would take a loss on the house. I know Zillow is not always the most accurate, but because it is a new community and it is townhomes, the most recent units just sold earlier this month. So I kind of have a benchmark already. But with the addition of the litigation and all the destructive testing that's happening. it's probably not going to be easy to sell and let alone sell for at least what I paid for it. Yeah. Tell us about the ones that did Speaker 2 (14:54) sell. Were those new construction that no one had lived in or were there people who had bought and were actually able to sell even with the water issue? Speaker 7 (15:04) No. So those were the last few available units of the community before the builder left. Speaker 2 (15:10) So you would be the first person trying to sell as an owner with the water damage? Speaker 7 (15:18) The community has been open for like, I think, three or four years. So there have been a couple units that have sold, but not before the not after the litigation. Speaker 2 (15:27) Yeah, right. So now that everybody knows what the deal is, you'd have to disclose that. And that would be part of it. So if I were in your shoes, you know, I think, Melody, I would kind of I love that the HOA is going after this, but I think I would kind of own this as my own thing as well. And I would have some. People come out to my own townhouse and give me estimates. Let me know. And just kind of gather your own information because there may be gathering it from the perspective of the whole, but there may be some things that you can do individually. I don't know, but there might be. And I'd want to know those numbers for myself. I'd want to know maybe there is something I can do that it doesn't have to be the whole line of townhomes, right? Speaker 2 (16:08) I'd want that information and I'd want to know what that cost is. Yeah. Speaker 1 (16:12) And get all the HOA guidelines too. Because sometimes with townhomes, depending on, I think the HOA of what you actually own. Right. And what you can actually work on, you know, depends on the unit, depends on the part of the neighborhood. I don't know. I would be very specific about your townhome. And yes, is there any work you can do to mitigate some of this that could happen? And I would just want another person's professional opinion who's not in the middle of this, because this isn't always the case, but sometimes HOAs are traumatic. Come on, somebody. Sometimes it's like, you know what I mean? And I'm not saying there's not a problem. I'm sure there is. There's been a lot of crappy builders, you know, that just throw up stuff and it's not good quality, for sure. That could definitely be the case. But I would want to get an actual realistic perspective from an outside party who knows what they're talking about looking at my specific home. not what everybody else is talking about. You know what I mean? And it could be worse. It could be better. I don't know. But I think that news, then that information will be able to help you make some good decisions on what needs fixing and what you can do to protect your assets so that when you do sell, whether that's after your parents, before your parents, I mean, you know, whatever that situation is, at least you've done what you can control. I agree. Speaker 7 (17:28) Right. Yeah. Our HOA guidelines do say that basically it's like the whole entire front and top of the units are HOA managed. So I don't think I would be able to do anything independently. We do have engineers and construction folks hired by the HOA going around doing destructive testing on all the units. So I have had them at my unit and they did discover already some. water damage that they're trying to like sort of mitigate in the interim period, but it's not a long-term solution right now. Yeah. I understand. Speaker 2 (18:05) Yeah. Well, to answer your... Question. I would just keep paying the more. I mean, I would just keep paying the payments. And honestly, what I might do with the extra money that you were going to put on the payment, I might stack it up for repairs, knowing that I might be the one that has to come out of pocket in some capacity to handle this. And then I'd probably hold on to that until some sort of information is given. If they're not going to pay, then somebody is going to have to pay. And it's probably going to be you guys to a certain extent. want that money ready to go to make my house livable. It's almost Speaker 1 (18:38) like upping that emergency fund enough that when, yeah, when it has to happen and it has to get fixed and if it's coming out of your pocket, you have the money for it. Oh, it's so frustrating though. And that's the other part. We say it all the time on the show, but it's true. Homeownership is expensive. Things happen and sometimes it's stuff you can't control. Sometimes it is stuff that you control, but... But the expense of owning a home, it is worth it in the long run. And not that every house deals with every specific issue like Melody's, but it's another plea that when you become a homeowner that you don't have debt, that you have an emergency fund, like you're in a good financial position to have margin as a homeowner. So when things come up, because they will. that it's not a stress point, that you can take care of it. And I mean, that's always our big push with homeownership because it's Speaker 8 (19:33) a Speaker 1 (19:33) lot. Speaker 2 (20:16) If you've ever been really sick or been the caregiver to somebody who was, you know how broken the healthcare system can be. Man, nothing is easy. Finding the right doctor, sitting on hold for hours, or gosh, trying to understand co-pays and treatment plans and weird medical terms that no one really explains. And so much paperwork. But... What if you had someone to do all of that for you? Someone to take the burden off your shoulders? Solace Health pairs patients with a personal advocate whose entire job is to fight for you. And these advocates are covered by insurance nationwide. They handle the paperwork, fight denied claims, and make sure you're not getting lost in the system. Solace Advocates are experts who average 16 years of healthcare experience. And they serve people who are going through a healthcare challenge. Now, if that's you or a... loved one, please reach out to Solace so everyone can focus on what really matters, getting better. So remember, the next time you or a loved one have a health issue, you need Solace in your corner. They'll fight the system so you don't have to. Go to solacehealth.com slash Ramsey or click the link in the description. Checking your eligibility only takes about two minutes. That's S-O-L-A-C-E health. dot com slash Ramsey. You must be 18 or older. And remember, advocates do not provide medical or legal advice. Speaker 1 (21:53) Well, if you haven't heard, Ramsey is taking over an entire cruise ship. So we are doing the Live Like No One Else cruise March 14th through the 21st in 2027. And we are going to the Western Caribbean. So it'll be Jamaica, Grand Cayman, Cozumel, the Bahamas. So many great stops. And I just want to tell you guys, this is more than just a cruise. This is... really this like moment in time where you're trapped on a ship with all of your, all of your fun Ramsey, Ramsey people. And there's a lot of learning and entertainment and enjoyment and great restaurants and coffee shops and bars. And it is, it is so much more than just you sailing individually on your own and just, you know, with your family. and you're going solo this becomes kind of this full community aspect that is the fun unique part of this cruise so if you have paid off all of your debt but your house and you're on baby steps four and beyond or maybe you've even hit baby step seven and you've paid off your house this cruise is for you so it's all inclusive pricing that starts at two thousand one hundred and five dollars per passenger so that's your cabin your food entertainment taxes and tips And all of it. So this is such a unique week and we don't get to do it. We've only done one of these. And it was so great that we are wanting to do it again. And so there's a few cabins left. But you guys make sure to sign up and go with us again. The dates are March 14th through the 21st. You can go to ramsaysolutions.com slash events. Get signed up. Book your cabin and join us on a wonderful, beautiful ship in March of 2027. All right, let's go to Kevin in Mobile, Alabama. Hi, Kevin. Welcome to the show. Speaker 8 (23:38) Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for taking my question. Speaker 1 (23:41) Absolutely. How can we help today? Speaker 8 (23:43) Well, my wife and I have a college freshman who just started in the fall. We had done a good job of preparing him for college. He's real responsible. He does not owe any... college tuition. He did a great job scholastically, got scholarships. And so we're paying for living expenses. One of the issues I have, and this is probably thanks to listening to your show, I had always assumed that it would be beneficial for young people to begin building credit history. So When he started in the fall, I thought, well, hey, I'll just add him as an authorized user on one of my credit card accounts and let him start charging just his minimal living expenses there on campus. But after listening to the show and recognizing the serious consequences that can arise with using credit cards, my question is, am I doing him a disservice teaching him? to use a credit card to build credit? And is credit, building a credit file actually necessary to move forward in life? Speaker 2 (24:57) Well, I got to say, I love, I think you're a really good dad because I think that you're really thinking through what's best for him. And it sounds like you're really open. And so, Rachel, what I'm hearing is somebody who is wanting to build the good habits, good financial habits. Speaker 2 (25:16) If we take that as the through line and we go, okay, what's the most healthy financial habit? It's being able to live on less than you make. It's being able to delay gratification for the things that we want. It's being able to, right, kind of control our behavior and make sure that our money is behaving and not the opposite way around and our money controlling us. So I think that's what you're after. And if that's the case, then I would say that a credit card would not be even necessary for him if those things that we just discussed are in fact true about him. Because he would be able to use cash to do those things. Speaker 8 (25:56) And he does. He does have a debit card that he could use instead. Obviously, as I said earlier, I assume that using a debit card is not going to build any transactional credit history. But if that is something that is really unnecessary, and not worth the risk, then I will encourage him to shred that card and just use cash. Speaker 1 (26:21) Well, yeah. And to know, Kevin, the reason, you know, that all of this whole debt product in the first place, you know, pushes messages like this, because that's a very normal way of thinking. You know, a lot of people are going to need to build my credit. That's a very normal statement we hear. And as you look at the credit score and how it's actually calculated, right, it all has to do with debt, right? If you pay the debt on time, the types of debt you have, if you're accumulating new debt, like it's that score. And the reason, the main reason you use that score is to. go into more debt, right? So he would need a score if he's going to go get car loans, if he's going to get personal loans, a small business loan. You know, if he's going to go into a life of debts, then yes, that score would be necessary. But what Jade and I, you know, what Jade laid out was beautiful to say, if you're choosing a debt-free life where you save up and pay for things, where you actually say no to the whole debt industry, even things like a car, then there's really no reason for that credit score. The mortgage is the one type of debt that we won't yell at you for. And so you can actually get a mortgage still without a credit score. It's called manual underwriting. And you can go through that process and still own a home. And so really that credit score, man, it has been inflated so much of the importance of it. But if you... kind of choose the weird path of life, like what we teach here on The Ramsey Show, and you choose a life without debt, you really, you don't need it. Now, there are moments, maybe employers or, you know, even with like cell phone companies, they may pull his credit report to see any history of how he has paid, but there just really won't be anything on that credit report. And it doesn't necessarily ding you. He may have to fill out an extra form or two. But that would be the only time that you kind of run into a situation outside of debt of why people, you know, try to have great credit history and all of that. So if anything, Kevin, you know, he could even freeze his credit. And so that, you know, make sure that no identity, you know, no one's taking debt out of his name. even identity theft and all of that, that can take care of that. So that's probably the card I would play with him is that, yeah, why you don't need it, explain it to him. And creating these habits in college is so... healthy, like for an 18 year old to be budgeting the money that he has and spending within his means is absolutely amazing. Yeah, Speaker 2 (28:48) Kevin, and I would just add one more layer to that, because I think Rachel, I mean, what she's saying is exactly right. And even the fact that just reframing that a zero credit score or an indeterminable credit score. in the market is just as effective as a high credit score. There's no negative to it. And Rachel talked about the home, but really there's kind of three key areas that most people think, I need credit for this. Most people. thought they needed credit to buy a home, which Rachel mentioned, a lot of people think they need it for a car and they think they need it for an apartment. And so just kind of getting ahead of those and being able to talk with them and just tell them, hey, when you go to your apartment, just know you might have to pay a little bit more down for first and last month's rent. Just know that they're going to ask for other trade lines, your cell phones, maybe things like your insurance payments. So being ready to be able to show those types of things and just so he knows what to expect with a car, right? One of the big things about this is now we're saving up and we're paying cash for cars. And just by him doing that, Rachel, he will be so ahead of the average American never getting into that car loan cycle. So that's how this works. And I think when people have that information ahead of time, it kind of just counteracts some of those things that we come up against when it's time to buy an apartment, it's time to buy a car. That's right. Just getting ahead of that. Speaker 1 (30:06) Yes. No, absolutely. Because There is a life navigating without debt. And the positive side of it, too, even the numbers, like even Kevin running, if you go to RamseySolutions.com, we have an investment calculator. And I'm like, just throw in what the average family owes, I think right now, $12,000 balance is on a credit card. And it's like, throw that in an investment calculator. And instead of that being your reality, here's what your reality could be in. in 40 years. And same with the car loan. I mean, the average car payment on a new car is up around $900 a month. And if you just said, hey, what if you avoided that and debt was not part of your life and you invested a car payment every month instead of paying a car dealer or a bank, what you could be. So the possibilities are endless. So Kevin, yeah, just like Jade said at the top of the call, you were such a great dad. And I think That's where parents can step in. And it's not out of control or judgment with your kids, but teach them and show them like, hey, here is what this looks like. And even your own mistakes, right? I mean, as parents, I'm like, man, that's what a wonderful, humbling thing for your kids. But please learn this before, because that's one line we get all the time is I wish I had known this stuff earlier. Absolutely. And if you can get it, Kevin, at your son's age, oh, my gosh, to set him up for. Not only financially having peace, but also emotionally around money. That is such a gift. Speaker 1 (31:44) Okay, George, we hear from so many people that are trying to live out the Ramsey plan, right? They're getting out of debt and everything. But the hard thing is there's not many banks out there that actually support the way we teach people to handle money. Speaker 4 (31:55) Yeah, most banks, they don't want you to win with money. So they charge a bunch of nuisance fees. There's all this fine print. And worst of all, they are pushing debt products at you nonstop. Speaker 1 (32:04) Yes, but the good thing is, is that Fairwinds isn't like most banks. They're not like the Speaker 4 (32:07) other guys. Speaker 1 (32:08) They're not like the other guys. Yeah, they are not pushing debt. And they actually want you to win with the baby steps. And so what's great, too, is they created the smart bundle for Ramsey fans, which includes a high yield savings account and no monthly fee checking. Speaker 4 (32:23) Which is huge because it's rare to have a checking account tied to a high-yield savings account. You can get all of that with Fairwinds. And for the nerds out there, you can have 10 different high-yield savings accounts for different goals. So you got your emergency fund, the car upgrade fund, the vacation fund. The world is your oyster. So Speaker 1 (32:37) beautiful. And check out the debit card, the new one. The live like no one else debit card. Oh, Speaker 4 (32:42) that's Speaker 1 (32:42) beautiful. It's so beautiful. That's a conversation starter. It's so good. Well, and when you swipe or you tap, you know, every time you take it out of your wallet, you're remembering that you are living like no one else and you're being intentional with your money. Speaker 4 (32:52) I've been using Fairwinds for months and months now. I love their features, the app, the customer service. It is all so