Stop Settling for a Life You Hate

The Ramsey Show

Hosts Jade Warshaw and Dr. John Deloney guide listeners through complex financial and relational dilemmas, ranging from high cost-of-living

Key takeaways

• Lexi earns over $100k in San Francisco but spends 50% on rent; hosts advise against a four-hour commute or moving back home, instead recommending she leverage her income to find a role in a lower-cost city where she can actually build wealth.
• Brooklyn and her husband co-signed their parents' mortgage, resulting in wage garnishments and severe relational strain; the hosts stress prioritizing their own Baby Steps, creating an 'in-law mistakes' reserve fund, and refusing further financial entanglement.

Main topics

• High cost of living vs. career location trade-offs
• Co-signing family debt and setting financial boundaries

Notable quotes

"Every decision you have in front of you is hard, right? Moving away from family is hard. Quitting your job is hard. Getting a new job is hard. Moving states is hard. All these are hard. Choose the hard path that's going to get you where you want to be when you're 30."

Conclusion

Listeners receive actionable frameworks for navigating high-stakes financ

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:02) Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Speaker 2 (0:10) Normal is broken. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life and your money from the Ramsey Network here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Speaker 7 (0:22) you already know the man, Dr. John Deloney, taking calls all couple hours long here. 888-825-5225 is the number you need to dial. We've got Lexi, who's in San Francisco, California. Hey, Lexi, what's going on, Speaker 3 (0:37) girl? Hi. Hi, calling from California. I'm curious to get your recommendations on a housing finance related question. Currently in a pretty major metropolitan area, my rent is over 50 % of my take home income. And so if I had the option to move home and not pay rent, but I would have to commute. Probably four hours round trip. Oh, gosh. Yeah. So, gas prices in California, and then, of course, like, probably down the line, more car-related expenses. So, curious what you all would make of that. Speaker 8 (1:22) What do you do for a living? Speaker 2 (1:24) I do communication. So what if we said that neither of those are the solution? Because Speaker 7 (1:30) they're Speaker 2 (1:31) clearly not. Speaker 7 (1:31) You can't pay 50 % and you can't have a four-hour commute. Neither of those are an option. Speaker 8 (1:37) Neither of those are a good life. Anytime I feel backed into a corner, I like to just, for fun, put options 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, even if they're preposterous, but put them on the table to A, remind myself that there's always more options than a... than bad A and bad B, but also it begins to expand my horizon a little bit. How much do you make in your job? Speaker 3 (2:00) A little over $100,000 a year. Speaker 2 (2:02) Oh, gosh. And certainly now we have another variable, certainly not for $100,000 are we driving a four-hour commute. So what can we – you said you're in communications? Speaker 7 (2:13) Yes. What can you, are there other jobs and communications that are all over the country that you could apply for? And if not, what is it specifically that you feel like is keeping you in the San Francisco area or in a high expense area? Speaker 3 (2:27) Yeah, I mean... difficult, right? Because high cost of living, but typically higher wages than maybe other areas in California. Not Speaker 2 (2:39) necessarily. Speaker 3 (2:39) Not if the ratio doesn't pan out. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I'm feeling that definitely lately. And Speaker 8 (2:49) make no mistake, San Francisco's stunning. It's beautiful. It's got cool things to do. All cool bands play there. It's a cool place to be. And it also costs a jillion dollars. Speaker 3 (3:02) Totally. Well, and that's where like quality of life, if you can't afford any of the Speaker 2 (3:07) funding. Exactly. It doesn't even matter. Speaker 8 (3:10) Or what is your $100,000? And dude, I know there's something magic about saying the phrase, I make six figures. But if you make $100,000 and you can't afford to do anything, what's the difference in making $85,000 somewhere where you can enjoy your life, right? Speaker 7 (3:29) Yeah. Speaker 2 (3:30) Yeah. And you laid out the stakes perfectly. You said, okay, if I keep doing this and paying 50 % rent, obviously, I mean, you already know, you're not going to have the money. You're not going to have the margin to do anything that would make you Speaker 7 (3:42) a financially responsible adult, right? You won't be able to save money. You won't really be able to invest. You won't be able to build wealth. You won't be able to buy real estate, right? Not on a hundred thousand. And then if you say, well, if I do the other option and I do a four hour commute, well, now I'm just. burning myself out. I'm burning my vehicle out. I'm burning myself out a job that maybe I started out liking. Now I hate the job and I'm looking up two years from now going, what was I thinking? And Speaker 8 (4:05) my mom's asking me when I'm going to be home, right? So Speaker 7 (4:08) let's get ahead of that. Seeing that, seeing that, let's go, okay, what can we create that we look up two years from now and we think, I'm so glad that I made this change. Is it... Today, starting today, starting this weekend, we started putting lines in the water. We started making a list of 10 people we know around the country, letting them know, hey, I'm looking, I'm searching. I get on LinkedIn. I read Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I start all that tonight and this weekend. And then I start actually applying for jobs. I start sending out resumes. Maybe in the next couple of months you land something. And yeah, maybe it caused you to go to Denver or you go to Dallas or you go, gosh, to, you know. Butteville, Tennessee, wherever you end up going, you're there and now you're making a living, you're making money and all of that other stuff is gone now and you're just able to enjoy your money. You have a new community. I mean, I like this for you. Speaker 3 (5:03) Yeah, well, I like the way you say it. Yeah, well, I'm curious, too, like, where would you put, like, retirement benefits into this cost analysis? Like, if I have a pretty good 401k match right now, but maybe another job somewhere else didn't have any employer match, like... Speaker 8 (5:23) Again, you're creating two bad options for yourself and assuming you have to choose either one. Like, how good is your match? Is it 25 %? Speaker 3 (5:36) No, no, not that much. Speaker 8 (5:37) Okay, how much is it? Speaker 3 (5:38) Four? Five percent. Speaker 8 (5:40) Okay, that's not a great match. That's a regular match. It's just normal. Speaker 7 (5:43) You can find that probably anywhere. I'm not going to say that's standard because it's not standard, but there are plenty of companies who offer similar style benefits. And I would not, to John's point, let's not make that assumption. Let's make the assumption there's other jobs out there. Based on what we know, there's other jobs out there that probably pay $100,000 that probably have a 5 % match. Let's just... Speaker 3 (6:03) Likely, Speaker 7 (6:04) right? So let's not assume anything because if we make assumptions based on our fears and the assumption is going to line up with our fears, let's actually go out there and get some facts that might contradict our fears and maybe prove them wrong. And then we go, oh, I was wrong all along. There's Speaker 2 (6:20) a lot of great options out here. Speaker 8 (6:21) And so Lexi, listen to Jade's wisdom here. Here's a great exercise for you. How old are you right now? Speaker 3 (6:27) 27. Okay, Speaker 8 (6:29) so 27. Let's imagine you at 30. Speaker 8 (6:35) Imagine how much you want to have in a savings account. Imagine how much in a dream world you'd like to have in retirement. Imagine what you would like to be doing professionally, right? Imagine if you have family or friends or community, you'd like to be near or like one jump on a plane away, right? And then begin saying, okay, here's what I want my life to look like when I'm 30. Because my fear for you is like, this is a big deal, right? Quitting your job at 27 or finding a new job. That's a big deal. Moving in with your mom at 27, that's a big deal. All these things are big deals. And it's really easy when everything feels like a big deal to do nothing. And then you're going to blink and you're going to be 30 and you're going to be in the exact same situation just with your finances a little worse off, all to protect this magic thing called the six-figure job that actually costs you actually living your life. Right? And so it might be that you find yourself in Houston or you find yourself in Omaha or you find yourself in Nevada, any number of other places, making $100,000, $95,000, $125,000, and the cost of living allows you to actually live. Speaker 3 (7:48) Right. Speaker 3 (7:50) Yeah. Speaker 8 (7:51) And all of those are big, hard challenges. You hear me say this over and over, and I'm kind of beating a dead horse here, but every decision you have in front of you is hard, right? Moving away from family is hard. Quitting your job is hard. Getting a new job is hard. Moving states is hard. All these are hard. Choose the hard path that's going to get you where you want to be when you're 30. I think that's the path. Speaker 2 (8:10) I definitely think so. think that's the path. And I think if you start today, like I said, you're going to look up and it's going to be a wonderful outcome. Before you leave, we will make sure to give you Ken Coleman's Find the Work You're Wired to Do. That's our gift to you. It's an assessment. It's going to Speaker 7 (8:24) help you figure out the things that you're good at. And then it's going to help you find career fields that are associated Speaker 2 (8:29) with the things that you're good at and that really give you the juice to quote Ken. And I think that's really going to help you. And we'll give you from paycheck to purpose. Throw that in there too. He doesn't mind. Speaker 7 (8:58) If you've ever been really sick or been the caregiver to somebody who was, you know how broken the healthcare system can be. Man, nothing is easy. 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Go to solacehealth.com slash Ramsey or click the link in the description. Checking your eligibility only takes about two minutes. That's S-O-L-A-C-E health.com slash Ramsey. You must be 18 or older. And remember, advocates do not provide medical or legal advice. Speaker 7 (10:32) Well, let's head back to the phone lines, shall Speaker 2 (10:34) we? We have Brooklyn, who's in Phoenix, Arizona. Hey, Brooklyn, what's going on? Speaker 3 (10:40) Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. My question for you guys is, do you have any advice for how my husband and I can kind of keep ourselves financially safe? We're in an uncomfortable, like intertwined financial situation with his parents. They continue to make just egregiously terrible decisions with their money, which ends up affecting us. We're trying to rebuild and move forward. We're in financial peace with our church, but their bad decisions keep kind of affecting us. Paint Speaker 8 (11:17) us a full picture, yeah. Speaker 3 (11:19) Yeah, so a couple years back, we co-signed their mortgage. Oh, Speaker 2 (11:25) there you go. I know, I know. What in the world caused that chain of events? That's crazy work. I Speaker 3 (11:33) don't know if you guys recall, a couple years back, there was a really weird housing bubble that happened. Our state was really severely affected. And so overnight, we had just hundreds of people coming in from California paying all cash for houses. Speaker 7 (11:45) Yeah, that happened a lot of places. It's not a Speaker 8 (11:47) housing bubble. In fact, it's the opposite. The housing inventory was basically nil, right? Speaker 2 (11:54) But that doesn't explain you co-signing. Speaker 3 (11:57) Yeah, my in-laws were in a rental that they'd been in forever. they got a 45 day notice on their door because they got sold to someone for, um, they couldn't afford, and there were no rental homes available to get into. And so we kind of exhausted every option we could see. And the only other kind of thing that looked like. That would work would be to get them into a mortgage and get them into a home. How old are they? They're in their late 50s, early 60s. Speaker 7 (12:26) Okay. So there's already a dynamic that I hear here that you, I think you're hip to this. Otherwise you wouldn't be calling. There's a lot of we talking about them and their marriage and their situation. Speaker 3 (12:39) And Speaker 2 (12:40) somehow you guys have like. sucked that into your marriage and your life and it's a four-wheel we instead of them and you guys. Speaker 7 (12:50) Or Speaker 8 (12:50) imagine what would you trade to have had a really hard conversation two to three to four years ago when they had to move into a two-bedroom apartment versus the conversation y'all are going to have to have now, right? Speaker 3 (13:05) Yeah. Like Speaker 8 (13:05) a hard conversation was going to happen, but it's going to get worse. Yeah. Speaker 3 (13:09) Yeah, we've had some really bad conversations and they don't end productively. Well, I think Speaker 8 (13:16) the time for talking, quite honestly, is over. Speaker 3 (13:21) The Speaker 8 (13:22) only thing you and your husband can do is control what you're going to do next. Speaker 7 (13:27) Yeah. And so have you gotten out of this situation? Have you said, guys, you've got to refinance and get us off this loan? I don't care that the interest rates are what they are. If that means you have to rent, you cannot keep us caught up in this. Speaker 3 (13:43) Yeah, we have had that conversation. They are not able to refinance us off because their credit and financial situation is so bad. Right, Speaker 7 (13:50) which means you guys have to sell this Speaker 3 (13:52) house. Can you Speaker 8 (13:52) sell the house? You got to Speaker 3 (13:54) sell it. Why not? They flat out will not. We continue to revisit this conversation probably on a monthly basis, but it usually ends in like a cussing, screaming, shouting. And were they like that before? Speaker 7 (14:06) Were they that combative like that before? Speaker 3 (14:10) They can be about things that upset them. I think my husband and I did not fully understand how they perceived money. Now we see. like where their mindset is coming from. And so it's not, it's not a reasonable mindset. And that's our, our issue. So we've, we've. Speaker 7 (14:30) So have you said to them, okay, let's take money out of it. I know it's very hard to take money out of this equation, but have you spoken to them on a relationship, father, daughter, in Speaker 2 (14:42) -law, just trying to do life together and said, Hey, here's what, here's what I'm most afraid of. This has already changed our relationship. And I don't know if you've noticed it, but gosh, we don't interact the same. When we end up on calls, it ends up we get belligerent. We don't want to spend Speaker 7 (14:59) Thanksgiving together anymore. That bothers me because when I think about a family, I want in-laws that I can talk to on the phone. I want my husband to feel like his mom and dad have a great, right? Have you talked to them on that level and said, I just don't like what it's doing relationally? And can you truthfully say that you like what this is doing to us and it's worth? staying in this house, can you really say that? Because it's not worth it for me. Have you talked to them on that level? Speaker 3 (15:25) I don't think we've come at it from that kind of an angle. I can definitely, definitely try that. Because Speaker 2 (15:31) that's the truth. I mean, obviously, I mean, we can name a million reasons why financially it's bad for both parties. But what I'm really seeing is the deterioration of you guys' relationship. Speaker 2 (15:44) I don't know if you have kids yet, but that's certainly going to affect grandkids. It's certainly, do you see what I'm saying? Speaker 8 (15:51) My, my guess is Speaker 2 (15:52) actually is a major factor for us Speaker 3 (15:54) because they help watch our children. And, um, my oldest has really severe special needs. And so they're the only people that we can trust, um, to take care of him. We don't have anyone else. So that's, that was what prompted us to do it in the first place. We were like, okay, well, this is like an investment in childcare. These are the people that like, When you have a special needs kid, respite is really important because it's really exhausting. And they're the only people that we can trust. My family doesn't help. Speaker 8 (16:24) So are they... I guess I want to challenge you on the word trust. Speaker 5 (16:31) Because Speaker 8 (16:31) maybe they're really good caring for your child, which is amazing. But you don't trust them. Speaker 3 (16:38) No, we don't. And that's definitely affected my, I think it's, I mean, like you said, it's affected everything. So let's get down to the brass tacks. I Speaker 8 (16:46) can definitely Speaker 3 (16:46) try that. Speaker 8 (16:46) Are they making their mortgage note every month? Speaker 3 (16:50) No. Two years ago, I came home to a wage garnishment notice for my husband because they had not been paying. Yeah, that was... very upsetting. We cleaned up the mess, said you absolutely cannot be doing this. Like, if you're going to miss a payment, we need to know we will cover the payment. Like, do not do this to us again. Are Speaker 2 (17:10) you guys homeowners? Do you and your husband own a home? We do. Yes, we own a home. Speaker 3 (17:14) And so we told them this. We were very, they're like, oh, of course, of course, of course, whatever. And we ran my husband's credit last month and there's two more. So they're Speaker 2 (17:24) going to keep Speaker 3 (17:24) doing Speaker 2 (17:24) it. How are you doing financially? Like, what's your margin look like? What's your debt? look like? Speaker 3 (17:30) We're doing okay. We have joined Financial Peace because we came to the epiphany of we're trying to save them and we can't keep burning ourselves out saving them. So we're doing okay. Tell me real numbers. What baby step are you on? We're on baby step two. So we're paying off debt. We're getting, we have a little bit of a car loan left. We've got some student loans we need to knock out and then we can move forward. Our mortgage is only, I think it's 23 and a half. percent of our take-home pay. Yeah, because that's Speaker 7 (18:00) the main thing, Brooklyn, and you already know this, but I'm saying it for anybody listening to Speaker 2 (18:05) this. You're stuck, right? You did this act, and you know what it is now. You're regretful of it. You're like, I've learned my lesson, but the hard part Speaker 7 (18:15) is now you're... Love the time machine. Yes, man. You can't get back in the time machine, and now you're in it, and so you've got to be doing the baby steps, which you are doing, because you're only hoping this. is to hope for the day that they see the light. But until then, you've got to be able to reach over when they don't pay the note. You've got to be able to reach over to protect your own self. Do you see what I'm saying? And so by you, you're doing the right thing now, walking the baby steps, getting out of this car loan, getting out of this student loan, and just having three to six months. If I was in your shoes, I might have six to eight months knowing that they have a mortgage. How much is their mortgage? Speaker 3 (18:53) Their mortgage is... about $1,700 a month. Their HOA payment is $315. Oh, word. So between the two, they're $2,000 a month. Speaker 2 (19:02) So if I were you, I'd probably always keep $2,000 in an account somewhere that's just in-law mistakes. You know what I mean? I Speaker 8 (19:11) would probably put a $2,000... Again, I'm projecting onto you in your margin. I would put $2,000 in an account every month, make it a recurring bill. Speaker 2 (19:23) Oh, no, that sounds like a lot, John. We probably can't do Speaker 3 (19:25) that. Yeah, that's too much. We have teacher income in Speaker 8 (19:28) here. They're going to keep doing it, right? Speaker 7 (19:30) Right, but what you can do is if you have it one time in that account, so let's say we're going into October. Let's say for October, you say, I'm going to put the line item there, $2,000 a month. It's sitting there, sitting there. Come February, if they don't pay, you can reach into that, pay the rent, and then the next month now, you got to put it back on the budget again, $2,000. So it's kind of like... Kind of like what we would say a peaks and valleys account. So you're funding it. Whenever you use it, you have to refund it right away. And that's how this works. And for anybody listening, gosh, just remember co-signing guys. It is only there because the bank knows that person cannot pay. They will not pay. They cannot afford it and they don't want to take the risk. So neither should you. Speaker 4 (20:24) If your business is making seven figures or more, you should be proud of that. But that growth probably brought a mess with it. Systems that don't talk to each other. It's impossible to track down your numbers because they're scattered everywhere. That's a visibility problem, and NetSuite has solved that problem for more than 44,000 businesses like yours. NetSuite brings financials, inventory, CRM, and more into one place. And their AI tool, NetSuite Next. builds AI into everything, automating busy work like forecasting demand and chasing down overdue accounts. It's not complicated to use. You just ask it questions like you're talking to a person. And you're not starting from scratch because NetSuite is built on leading practices from thousands of businesses preloaded and ready to go. Ramsey Solutions switched to NetSuite years ago. It helped us know our numbers, and we've never looked back. If your revenue is at least seven figures, try NetSuite Next for free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. That's netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Or click the link in the description. Speaker 2 (21:45) All righty. So if you're out there and you're working the baby steps, you already know the best and fastest way to do that is to use EveryDollar. And it's more than a budgeting app, guys. This is the app that's going to help you stick to the Ramsey plan. If you're listening to this podcast, it's because you think that something about what we're saying makes sense. You know it's logical. You know it's resonating. But you just need to. You need to dive in. And the way that you're going to dive in is with every dollar. Not only is it going to give you a plan for how you spend every single dollar every single month, but it's also going to kind of push you in the way of the Ramsey. Push you in the way of Ramsey. That we're teaching everything from our perspective. We're not going to sell you any debt. You're not going to get in there and we're talking about a credit score. None of that. It's just helping you win, helping you achieve your money goals. So start. every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play today. All right, let's go to Mark, who's in Detroit, Michigan. Hey, Speaker 7 (22:42) Mark. Speaker 2 (22:43) How's Speaker 7 (22:43) it Speaker 2 (22:43) going, man? How you doing? Speaker 5 (22:44) Okay, how you doing? We're Speaker 2 (22:45) doing good. How can we help? Speaker 5 (22:47) Well, um... I got in some financial trouble and debt, and due to some unforeseen circumstances, I had to make some large purchases, repayments, whatever, stuff like that. And it just got out of control. Now I have, you know, I had one card, and I tried to get out of debt by doing one of those no interest things for the next month and months. And, you know. car got stolen. You know, I mean, this, you know, it's like, it was like a country song. So, um, um, I wanted to, and I know this is kind of a no, no, but I wanted to get a HELOC to consolidate debt. Now I wouldn't have normally suggested it, but we have, my wife and I have so much equity in our house. I wanted to, I wanted to borrow about seven and a half percent of that. just to give myself some breathing room. The intention is to sell the house in the spring anyway. Speaker 2 (23:44) Yeah. But Speaker 5 (23:45) just, I mean, I'm like robbing feet of the pay Paul. It's, it's creating a lot of distress. Of Speaker 2 (23:54) course. And Speaker 5 (23:55) she, and she, you know, she's an avid listener to some of these financial podcasts. I believe George is one of them and she will, she wouldn't budge on it. So no way you can do a, go to a credit counselor. I said that. that'll affect my credit. You know what I mean? Well, your Speaker 2 (24:11) credit's going to be affected. I mean, you're in a way, but let me tell you something that really bothers me about this for you. If I have, I'm just going to paint you this picture. If I have saved up in a piggy bank $7 Speaker 7 (24:25) ,000, and it's my piggy bank. I saved the money. I did what it took for that money to be there. And then somebody came up to me and said, I will let you borrow your own money at 6.42%. I would look at them like they're crazy. What do you mean you're going to charge me to borrow my own money? Right? Speaker 5 (24:46) Yeah. Speaker 7 (24:47) That's what you're doing with this home equity line. You're saying, I have this equity that I did the work to have. I made my payments on time. I put the down payment. I held the asset. It's my money. And you want me to borrow it from myself and pay Speaker 2 (25:05) you 6.42 % or Speaker 5 (25:07) whatever it is. That's really not what's happening, though. First of all, you got... You know, I'm looking at, you know, you know, usurious debt, you know, like, I don't even know, 25, 30 percent. You're right. I'm sorry. Interest rates. I could cut it down to, you know, he locked it 8 percent. And and honestly, you know, I say I own my own house. It's Speaker 7 (25:29) borrowed Speaker 5 (25:29) money, Mark. It's borrowed. The bank owns my house, though. I'm paying them back for the house. And now I'm telling them, hey, you know what? I need to borrow some of that money back. Speaker 7 (25:40) Yeah. And you have to pay it back. Speaker 5 (25:42) You have to pay it back. When Speaker 7 (25:44) you sell the house, you don't get to have that money. You've given it away. How Speaker 8 (25:48) much debt do you have, Mark? Speaker 5 (25:50) I Speaker 8 (25:50) got about $25 Speaker 5 (25:52) ,000. Okay. If I get, and the HELACs are from, you can't get it for, you have to get it for a certain amount. That's Speaker 8 (26:00) right. Speaker 5 (26:00) That's right. Right, right, right. Speaker 8 (26:01) So here's the thing. We get Speaker 5 (26:04) over $500,000 in equity. Speaker 8 (26:06) That's great, but it's unrealized. And you have a $25,000 problem. How much money do you make a year, you and your wife combined? Speaker 5 (26:14) Well, we kind of keep our bills separate. So I'm going to just kind of mine is I make just under 90. Speaker 8 (26:21) Okay. And how come you and your wife have chosen to do life together, but you don't combine your money together? Speaker 5 (26:30) Um. Because some people are unrealistic about what you can spend. Speaker 5 (26:37) You know, what takes priority? You know, is it going to be, you know, a pretty dish or is it going to be, you know. So Speaker 2 (26:42) you don't trust that she you don't trust that she has the self-control to stick to a budget. Is that what you're saying? Speaker 5 (26:48) Oh, she does now. Yeah, we separated a couple of years ago with the debts and she is spot on. She's doing Speaker 8 (26:55) good. Speaker 2 (26:56) OK, good. So. Speaker 8 (26:57) So. Speaker 8 (27:00) How much margin do you have from your bills that you have to pay every month? Speaker 5 (27:08) Oh, I am. My debt to whatever income ratio is like, you know, flatlined. You know, when I after the car got stolen, you know, they didn't you know, I'd loved having no car payment. It was the best thing ever. And then I walk out to my driveway and my car's gone. So it ends up being, you know, now I have a car note. And I mean, that's one of the things. No, no, no. Here's Speaker 8 (27:32) the problem, brother. You're not owning any of this. No, no, of course not. Speaker 5 (27:37) I'm paying other people to allow Speaker 8 (27:40) me to have it. I know, but what I'm saying is you're not owning... You didn't magically get a car note. You got your car stolen, which is awful. It's a violation of your personal privacy, and it took away your actual transportation. And then you, as a grown man, went and chose not to go get a $3,000 car to get you to and from. You chose to go take out a car note. It didn't happen to you. Wait a minute. Speaker 5 (28:05) You make it sound so easy. Listen. You know, I don't know if you've been out there, but I had a $3,000 car for many years. Brother, you're talking to folks who were out. Speaker 2 (28:16) Mark, you're talking to two people who were all the way out in the street when it comes to debt. How Speaker 5 (28:22) much time did you spend fixing your car? You know what I mean? Not that much. Speaker 7 (28:26) And let's be fair. Let's be fair for a second. I made Speaker 8 (28:29) that number up, by the way. It could have been eight Speaker 7 (28:31) or nine, right? We could have gone a little bit higher. But the point that he's making is you made the choice to sign for debt. You made this choice to sign for a certain amount of debt. Because let's be fair. How much is your car? How much is your car? What do you owe? Speaker 5 (28:45) What do I owe? That's a good question. I'm I-0-14. Speaker 2 (28:51) Okay, so that's Speaker 7 (28:52) kind of the point that John was making. Could you have gotten an 8 or a 10? Yes, you could have. Could we have done this for less? That was the point. So what we're trying to say here is we Speaker 2 (29:02) can't—part of getting ahead with money, and you're talking to somebody here, Mark, who had— close to half a million of consumer debt, okay? And I had Speaker 8 (29:11) six figures. Like, we've been way more underwater than 25 grand, brother. Speaker 2 (29:15) We've been where you are and then some. And Speaker 8 (29:17) we both, both of us, while we were on the air on this show, had colleagues making fun of us because we drove such old used cars. Both of us. Yes. Okay, so we're in this with you, okay? It's not us talking against you, but you hear how animated I'm getting because you're about to go put your house on the block. And if you take out a $50,000 HELOC, because that's the minimum they're going to do it, to preserve your precious debt score, right? And you do it to give yourself some breathing room and you miss it, they take the whole thing. Speaker 8 (29:51) You get what I'm saying? How would I miss Speaker 5 (29:52) it? How would I miss it if I'm able to just barely pay high interest? All right, go for it. All right. So I got this usurious interest, right? And I walked right into that, right? And I'm paying X amount of dollars. And if I can wrap it all up into a smaller amount. Mark, I'm going to cut you off. No, no, no, because Speaker 8 (30:17) here's the thing. Speaker 2 (30:18) Mark, you don't Speaker 5 (30:19) want Speaker 2 (30:19) to know our opinion. You're Speaker 8 (30:20) one stolen car away from this all happening again. Speaker 2 (30:23) Mark is going to go ahead and take the HELOC. Because Mark, you didn't call to get our advice. You called to tell us what you're going to do. And that's your choice to do that. Speaker 7 (30:32) If Dave were on the line, he would have hung up on you a long time ago. I wanted to just hear what you were going to say. You're going to do what you're going to do. Because if you call the show and you're not open, just a little bit. If you call the show like this, we can't help you. we can't and i can explain all day and john can explain all day we have nothing to gain from this so if we're helping you it's from a pure point we don't have anything to help you're the one with 25 000 of debt we're trying to reduce the amount of risk and stress in your life because we care about you i don't care about winning an argument my friend i care about you going away in peace and you having a situation that's going to beget peace in your life, switching one debt for another type of debt is never going to do it. You cannot pay off debt by using debt. You have to use income and money to pay off debt. Speaker 4 (31:37) If you're serious about building a business, you need an easy way for customers to buy from you. Yeah, that sounds obvious, but a lot of business owners leave money on the table. Not because their product isn't good, but because the buying experience is broken or complicated. Shopify fixes that. With Shopify, you can build a professional storefront and get it in front of your customers. fast. No coding, no technical headaches, and when your customers are ready to buy, Shopify's purple shop pay button is one of the best converting checkouts in the world, which means fewer abandoned carts and more sales. And if you hit a snag, Sidekick, Shopify's built-in AI assistant, is there to answer questions and keep you moving. You've got enough to think about. Just running your business. The last thing you need is to lose sales because the buying experience lets you down. All you need is the idea. Shopify handles the rest. Start your free trial at shopify.com slash Ramsey. That's shopify.com slash Ramsey. Shopify.com slash Ramsey. Speaker 2 (32:59) Well, if you're new to The Ramsey Show, we just want to say welcome. We're glad that you're here. And you might notice that we kind of answer every question through a series of principles. And if you've kind of wondered about that and weren't quite sure what it was, yeah, we have a set of principles that we follow around here. It's pretty clear, you know, live on less than you make. you know, avoid debt. If you have debt, pay it off. And then from there on a debt-free lifestyle, we are real big Speaker 7 (33:27) components on working together with your spouse. So these are just kind of like some