Wealth Is A Strategy, Not An Accident

The Ramsey Show - Ramsey Network

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, Dave Ramsey addresses a listener, Chris, who is being pressured by his mother—a doctor—to co-sign an $800,000

Key takeaways

• Co-signing someone else's debt is risky and can jeopardize your own financial future.
• Parent PLUS loans used for children's education create long-term financial burdens that should be managed by the borrower, not transferred to offspring.

Main topics

• Co-signing mortgages
• Parent PLUS loans and their long-term impact

Notable quotes

"You're not allowed to say it anymore. But I've taught people all the time, be defiant, not compliant. The answer is no."

"She's going to blame you. She's going to be mean. She's going to be nasty. And you're going to feel blamed because boundaryless people resist boundaries."

Conclusion

Dave Ramsey concludes that Chris must firmly refuse to co-sign his mother's mortgage, despite emotional pressure. He emphasizes

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:04) Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Speaker 1 (0:11) Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Jade Walshaw, and number one best-selling author, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Chris is in Phoenix. Hey, Chris, how are you? Hey, I'm doing good, and you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, so I'm Speaker 3 (0:37) in a deep situation. So this is kind of a serious thing with me and my family right now. So I have a mother, single mother. I have three other siblings. We are from Wisconsin. And my mom, she does pretty good financially. She's a doctor, but she wanted all of us to go to college. With us going to college, she took out multiple Parent PLUS loans in order for us to go to school. She moved us out to Arizona. So she kind of took care of us, like paid for my rent for two years while I was in school, graduated. Now I'm in a good financial position. My mom is in Arizona and she want to purchase a $800,000 home. They won't let her purchase the home because of her debt to income ratio from the Parent PLUS loans that she took out for us, me and my siblings. I'm kind of the more financially responsible one. So she asked me if I could be a co-signer on her $800,000 mortgage. Keep in mind, I'm only 22 years old. You know, I have my own place, have my own car. I don't really have much debt outside of, you know, the Parent Plus loans that I'm helping my mom with. But she's kind of guilt tripping me and saying, hey, out of everything I did for you, this is the least that you can do for me. So it's kind of a fight with the family, an $800,000 mortgage that I'm scared to co-sign because one, I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to get off of it. And two, I don't. My mom, she's pretty smart. She's not bad financially. No, Speaker 2 (2:01) she's Speaker 3 (2:01) not. Well, Speaker 2 (2:03) there's something Speaker 5 (2:05) really important here that can easily be missed, which is. Just because something turned out okay doesn't mean there wasn't a mistake attached to it, right? Like you guys ended up in college and you guys are okay, but there was still a mistake that she made in co-signing all those loans. Otherwise, she would be able to buy her house no problem and there would be no debt to income ratio issue. So you've got to go to her and say, here's the thing, mom. I thank you for everything you've done for me, but there's still co-signing is not a good thing. The same way that you're having problems because you co-signed, if I co-signed for you, I'm signing up for the same set of problems. I'd rather do this, and I'd rather you find a way to do this in a way that there's no mistake attached to it. Speaker 4 (2:48) Agreed. Got it. Yeah, but she's not going to accept that because she's already gone into travel agent for guilt trip modes. Oh, my God. It's been so bad. Yeah. So let me ask you, how much Parent PLUS loans did she take out in total? Do you have any idea? Speaker 3 (3:02) For me, all four of my siblings, probably around $200,000. Speaker 4 (3:05) Okay. And you said she's a doctor. She's a doctor, yes. And what does she make? She probably Speaker 3 (3:10) makes around that, I would say around $160,000. Speaker 4 (3:14) Okay. All right. So I'm going to gift her a Total Money Makeover book from me and a year's subscription to the EveryDollar app and suggest that she decide starting today. that she become financially responsible for the first time in her life because what she did was very irresponsible. It was stupid, okay? What she did was stupid. It was of good heart, and she was intending good things, and she was putting herself on the line for her children, which sounds like a good warrior princess single mom. I appreciate all of that. But then to turn around. And ask a 22-year-old to help you buy a million-dollar house. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, lady. Right. That's ridiculous. Okay? And as a dad of children that are grown, they're not children anymore, adults, generation two, that are responsible, I would never do that to people that I love. Speaker 4 (4:19) And it's just wrong. Okay, so no, you don't get to buy a house because instead you chose Dr. Lady to go into debt to send your kids to school. I don't agree with your decision. I agree with your motives. Your motive was sweet and kind and noble. But your decision was stupid, and now you have to work your way out of stupid so you can buy a house. So for the next two years, you get to live on $60,000 and put $100,000 on $200,000 worth of student loans for two years, and they go away. Boom. And then you have a life, instead of screwing up your own kid's life, that you set out to help originally. Now you want to screw Speaker 1 (4:57) it up. So that's my message to Speaker 4 (4:59) her. Speaker 1 (5:00) You can play this for her. Quit guilt-tripping your kids. Speaker 1 (5:05) Suck it up, buttercup, and clean up your mess instead of dumping it on your 22-year-old. Yeah, that's right. Now, I love you, Mom. I'm happy for what you did, but that's my message to you from an old grandpa to a soon-to-be, hopefully, old grandma. And you clean up this mess, and then you don't saddle your own children with this. And so here's what's going to happen, though, Chris, okay? She's not going to do any of that. Speaker 1 (5:32) Probably. And she's probably not going to Speaker 4 (5:34) accept your no. Speaker 2 (5:35) She's probably going to, you're going to feel blamed. Speaker 4 (5:37) She's going, she's going to blame you. She's going to be mean. She's going to be nasty. And you're, she's going to get her feelings hurt because boundaryless people, when you put up a boundary, always resist the boundary. Speaker 1 (5:49) A hundred percent of the time. Speaker 5 (5:51) Well, and she's saddling her responsibility in the deal on you. Speaker 1 (5:55) Yeah. You didn't sign up for this. She did. You didn't ask her to. She did. So you're set free, my brother. Do not do Speaker 4 (6:04) this, whatever you do. But also do not expect it to come without consequences of her whining and rolling around on the floor, foaming at the mouth or whatever it is she's going to do, okay? Speaker 3 (6:15) Right. And my siblings are also, it's like a whole family thing. Well, I'll Speaker 1 (6:18) tell Speaker 3 (6:18) your siblings to bite it. Speaker 1 (6:22) You know, they don't get a vote anymore. You're like a free 22 year old man that gets to do what he wants to do with his life. You are not required to do this. And your siblings, by the way, are irresponsible, too. Hello. Which also nullifies their vote. Speaker 2 (6:37) But and here's the other part of this. You're young. And the Speaker 5 (6:39) more that you establish your boundaries in this way and the more that you draw a line in the sand and say, I'm not going to participate in behaviors that I know are stupid choices financially over time, the less you'll be pulled into that orbit of Speaker 2 (6:53) stupidity. Speaker 1 (6:54) Here's what you're saying. Here's the message you're delivering while you're doing this. And you didn't even mean to. The unintended consequence is your sibling's wife now knows she can't call you for money. Right. Because Chris has got one big answer. It's that magic ancient word. It Speaker 4 (7:09) sets you free. No. No one says the word anymore. It's ancient. It's a sound that has disappeared from our culture. You're not allowed to say it anymore. But I've Speaker 1 (7:20) taught people all the time, be defiant, not compliant. The answer is no. You press your tongue towards the roof of your mouth, you release, make a kissing motion. Yes. No. That's how it looks. That's Speaker 2 (7:30) how Speaker 1 (7:30) it sounds. That's an interesting word. We don't hear Speaker 4 (7:32) it much anymore. You're not allowed to say it to people because you get labeled all these things. You say, no, that's foolish. No, that's Speaker 1 (7:40) wrong. No, that violates my ethics and my values. No, I'm not going to do that. No. That's not helpful. No. At the end of this story, we'll all be pissed if we do this. So no, because that's what's going to happen. You're going to get married and have a kid and you're not going to be able to buy a house because you're cosigned to your mother who's still going to be chained to parent plus loans and an $800,000 mortgage and can't get you off because she can't refinance it. And then probably the house is going to get run down and can't even get sold because she can't keep it up. Because this is a pattern, dude. This is what's, you know. There's nothing good going to come of this. Please. endure the Speaker 4 (8:19) pain of everyone not liking your answer because 10 years from now, they'll be happy you answered this Speaker 1 (8:27) way. The Speaker 2 (8:28) kids call it standing on business. Oh, there you Speaker 1 (8:30) go. Speaker 2 (8:30) Yes, stand on business. Speaker 1 (8:32) All right, there we go. What's the one that Deloney says he says, accept regret more than... Oh Speaker 2 (8:37) boy, I'm not going to get it. Speaker 1 (8:39) Because I can't make it come to my head either, but it's perfect for this. But anyway, we'll remember it later. Speaker 2 (8:44) Guilt over resentment. Speaker 1 (8:45) Guilt over resentment. You'll be resentful later. Choose guilt now versus resentful later. Speaker 8 (9:01) If you or someone you love is dealing with a complex health issue, navigating the healthcare system can feel like a full-time job that you never signed up for. Several months ago, my family experienced multiple emergency healthcare situations, and little did we realize what kind of nightmare we were in for beyond the medical issues. Dealing with different schedules and signatures from different providers, scheduling appointments, decoding all of the medical jargon, figuring out medical billing, and the mountains of paperwork. All of this on top of being sick or scared and dealing with the challenges and disruptions to our home. Like me, most people go through this alone, but not anymore. The next time a medical challenge arises in my home, one of my first calls will be to Solace Health. Solace Health is extraordinary. They pair patients with a personal advocate, someone with an average of 16 years of healthcare experience, whose entire job is to fight for you so you get the care and honor Speaker 8 (10:14) With solace. You have someone who knows how to fight for you and who will. Go to solacehealth.com slash Ramsey or click the link in the description to see if you qualify. It takes about two minutes. That's S-O-L-A-C-E solacehealth.com slash Ramsey. Must be 18 or older. Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice. Speaker 1 (10:50) Lucy's in Charlotte. Hi, Lucy. How are you? Speaker 7 (10:54) Hi, good. Thanks for taking my call. Hi, Jayden. Hi, Dave. How Speaker 1 (10:57) can we help? Speaker 7 (10:59) Yeah, so I was hoping that you can help settle a debate between my husband and I. And by debate, I mean more me making fun of him for this. But I'll let you know who it is. Speaker 1 (11:09) Oh, good. We get to make fun of him. Speaker 7 (11:12) He's scared. We got married in January. We've combined our finances, so we have a joint checking account. How old are you guys? I'm 34 and he's 35. Okay. Speaker 4 (11:26) All right. Speaker 7 (11:27) And we are very blessed to be financially stable. I pay my phone bill from our joint checking account. It's prepaid. It's great. He and his three siblings, they are still on his parents' phone bill that his parents pay. Oh, that's sweet. He says if it's not broke, don't fix it. It's broke. Speaker 4 (11:53) It's broke. You're a 35-year-old man. You should have been off your parents' cell phone plan 10 years ago. Speaker 7 (11:59) Yeah. Speaker 4 (12:01) Yes, you should make fun of him at length. Speaker 7 (12:04) Okay, this is exactly what I thought. Does his mommy fold Speaker 4 (12:06) his underwear, too? No, Speaker 7 (12:09) surprisingly not. This is the only thing that I just think it's crazy, and he thinks it's normal. No, it's not normal. Speaker 4 (12:16) It's not normal. It's more Speaker 1 (12:17) normal than it should be, but normal kind of sucks in our culture. We've gotten people all confused about, you know, we got 35-year-olds living in their mother's basement still playing, you know, Call of Duty because they've never Speaker 4 (12:29) actually figured out what duty is. And so. Yes, crazy. He Speaker 5 (12:35) probably hasn't paid the bill in 15 or 20 years. He's never paid the bill, so he probably wasn't even thinking about it. Let's be fair there. He probably wasn't even thinking about it. Then you brought it up. That was his opportunity to go, you know what? I forgot Speaker 2 (12:47) about this. You're right. I shouldn't move it. I'm like a Speaker 1 (12:49) grown man and stuff now. I should pay my own bills and stuff now. Speaker 2 (12:53) Yes. Because that's what Speaker 1 (12:55) adults do and stuff now. Wow. Speaker 2 (12:59) That's fun. Speaker 1 (13:00) Yes, we should all make fun of him. On behalf of all the 35-year-old mama's boys out there, we should make fun of him. Mercilessly. Mercilessly. Yeah, you win, Lucy. You win. Touchdown. Speaker 2 (13:14) That's funny. Speaker 1 (13:16) It is very funny, and it's cute, and we'll have some fun with it. But it does bring up something that, I mean, we did a show yesterday on real estate. And the number of single ladies... buying a home is now three times the percentage of single men buying a home for the first time in history. Which Speaker 2 (13:42) is interesting because women tend to earn less dollars. Speaker 1 (13:46) Less Speaker 2 (13:47) in Speaker 1 (13:47) general. Yes. Not always, but they also tend to want to make a quote home, so to speak, a nest. But what we're seeing is that we've got It's the numbers vary depending on who you read and who you believe, but somewhere between 40 and almost 50 % of the single males under 30 are living at home still. Speaker 2 (14:10) Well, this goes back to Speaker 5 (14:12) a lot of the content that you were talking about earlier in the year, because there's data that's attributed to that, right? Yeah, Speaker 1 (14:18) well, it's the, you know, there's a couple of things we're seeing that are causing that. Those guys are not, they don't feel like they are winning in the marketplace for various reasons. And so they... are further trapping themselves by being the generation that has sold their soul to DraftKings. The sports betting is through the roof, and it's killing them. They're losing like hand over fist. They've made DraftKings and whoever else just unbelievably billions of dollars in a very short period of time. And Speaker 4 (14:49) that's where the crypto bros live. Because they're swinging for the fence. They don't think they can hit a single and get on base. So everything they do is a desperate move. It's a bet on a football game or a bet on crypto. And that's the only thing that's Speaker 1 (15:05) going to get me out because I can't do slow and steady. It doesn't work for me. I'm too scared. I'm too stuck. I'm too whatever. And I blame mom and dad. Speaker 1 (15:15) Because, you know, in my 20s, there were times I got married at 22. But in my 20s in college and as a young married person, there were times I was terrified. But it was really good for me. A lot of wonderful things happen out of a healthy desperation. Speaker 2 (15:31) Because Speaker 1 (15:31) I knew if I didn't do it, it wasn't going to get done. Speaker 2 (15:35) Well, that's what I was going to ask. Do you think it's a Speaker 5 (15:37) low expectation of, hey, you know. It's not even, we don't even expect you to do this. Or do you think the expectation is scaring them and it's like, hey, I don't think I can meet this. I'm not even going to try. Speaker 1 (15:47) Well, it goes all the way back to early childhood. Teach your children to do hard things. Speaker 2 (15:52) Yeah. Teach your children Speaker 4 (15:53) to do hard things. And then at some age, early 20s at the latest, like when you come home from college, you can't come home. Be a man, my son. Speaker 2 (16:05) Oh, yeah. Speaker 4 (16:06) Get a place to live. Moms and dads are not doing a 28-year-old favors when they're spending their evenings on binging Netflix, they're betting on sports with DraftKings, they're buying crypto, and they're excellent at video games. You have done them no favors. You're a child abuser. Speaker 4 (16:29) Because you've said, Speaker 1 (16:30) who wants to date that guy? And that's the problem. Yeah, that's a problem too. What father wants his daughter dating that guy? Daddy, he's a dreamer. Oh God, they're going to live in the basement. Well, I want to Speaker 5 (16:44) see that you can go out and make a life before you add me to your life. You know what I'm saying? Like, I want to see that. I want to see it happen. I want to see that you can get a place and have a job. The Speaker 1 (16:54) dictionary is the Speaker 5 (16:54) only place Speaker 1 (16:54) that success comes before work. Speaker 1 (16:58) Everywhere else work comes before success. And so, you know, moms and dads, an eagle that is not kicked out of the nest pretty quickly becomes a turkey. And so we need to kick the little eaglets out and let them have some terror. Oh, it's hard out there. It is not hard out there compared to when you did it, moms and dads. It's the easiest and best time in the history of the world right now. The stock market's freaking booming. Jobs are everywhere. Now, not $150,000 a year jobs for people who got a degree in left-handed puppetry to follow their passion. No, people who actually are working at things that the society needs. It's out there. And if it's not, give them a lawnmower. Run down to Home Depot. Buy a leaf blower. Rich people are afraid of leaves. You've got a job instantly. Speaker 1 (18:00) Instantly. It's the sound of success. Facts. You know? Get it, baby. Get it. So the wussification of America is beyond belief. We have killed a generation of young men by not teaching them how to throw their shoulders back, lean into the harness, and pull something. Now, does that sound like a dad joke? I don't care. I'm observing the socioeconomic data. I'm also talking to the young women who wish there were some more men out there that they could date instead of a mama's boy living in their mother's basement. And it's just ridiculous, you guys. It's out of control. And I got to tell you, I got a whole bunch of good ones. It's not all. It's not the entire generation. We've got 750 in their 20s working at Ramsey right now. And they're incredible. Their eyes are shining. They're passionate. They're talented. And they can balance a checkbook. And they can pay their own light bill and buy their own milk. And, you know, this is a. I mean, Lucy's calls fun and we can have fun and joke around with her about winning her argument. And yes, he needs to get off cell phone bill. But it kind of points to this whole other rant. Yeah, it does. This Speaker 4 (19:14) whole Speaker 1 (19:14) other issue that we're running into. It's affecting the housing market. Okay. So twice as many women, single Speaker 4 (19:22) 30 year olds are buying homes as men, 30 year olds. First time in history. Why? I don't know. Other than they're maturing emotionally, relationally faster. I Speaker 1 (19:35) don't know. And they Speaker 2 (19:37) don't want to wait on someone else to. If Speaker 1 (19:40) they're waiting, they're waiting on, you know, the what is it? The knight. Yeah. Speaker 2 (19:46) In shining armor. Speaker 1 (19:47) Thank you. Because his armor is pretty tarnished because he's been playing video games all day. Speaker 2 (19:52) He needs some WD-40. Speaker 1 (19:53) He needs to get him a little stainless steel rub that armor. Golly, you guys, come on. The great news is for you young men that will decide you want to shoulder up, you're going to be so rare that you're going to have your pick of the litter, baby. I mean, you got a guy that works and pays his own bills and is walking around and is kind and gentle and has integrity. You can have anything you want out there, man. Speaker 6 (20:41) all about practical ways to save time and mental energy, especially during the summer when life gets busy. Between vacations, camps, deliveries, travel plans, online shopping, and trying to keep everyone organized, my mental load can get pretty full. That's one of the reasons why I love Delete Me. 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How are you doing today? Speaker 1 (22:26) Better than I deserve. What's up? Speaker 3 (22:30) So as a travel tech, it's really hard to stay on a budget as far as food and staying with decent nutrition. What do you recommend? Speaker 4 (22:40) I'm sorry. The nutrition is the problem or just the impulsiveness? Speaker 3 (22:46) Um, both. So it's really, I'm out of the, I don't, I'm not at home, like except for two days out of the month, three days out of the month. Speaker 4 (22:54) Okay. So Speaker 3 (22:55) when it comes to like homemade meals, stuff that has like good, and it's actually good for you and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Um, that's where I'm really struggling when it comes, I'm on baby step number two, I'm under 10, uh, 10 grand left in debt. I'm getting there. Uh, last month I was able to put a, Like 3,000, close to 3,500. There's kind of Speaker 4 (23:17) two questions built in, if I'm understanding. Number one is how do I not go over my allocated amount that I have to spend? And number two is how Speaker 1 (23:25) do I literally physically create food that's acceptable for a human being to eat while you're on the road? Which, that's really hard, but Jade could help us with that. Speaker 2 (23:32) Yeah, what is your budget? How much can you spend a week? Speaker 3 (23:38) $240 is what my per diem is. That's a lot. You have a per Speaker 4 (23:41) diem. Speaker 1 (23:42) That's wonderful. Speaker 5 (23:43) Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's wonderful. And you also, because that's plenty, I think, for one human being. That's $1 Speaker 1 (23:50) ,000 a month. Yeah. If Speaker 5 (23:51) you can't do that, we've got other problems. Speaker 3 (23:55) $240. Sorry. Per week? Per week. For the week. $240 times three Speaker 4 (24:02) times four is $1,000. Yeah. Speaker 5 (24:04) That's a lot of money. Speaker 3 (24:05) Oh, yeah. Okay. Speaker 4 (24:06) So Speaker 2 (24:06) tell me what Speaker 3 (24:07) are Speaker 5 (24:07) you Speaker 3 (24:07) having? Speaker 2 (24:07) I Speaker 3 (24:07) tried to take most of that and put it towards the debt, though. Okay, Speaker 2 (24:11) so you've cut it down. There's the problem. Speaker 4 (24:12) Okay. So how can we eat for $240 a week or less healthy? On the road, Jade. Speaker 5 (24:19) Yeah, I think you need to find healthy meals that are already prepared. If your hotel room doesn't have the little kitchenette where you can do some things on your own, then you're going to the grocery store and you're going to the deli area and you're picking up salads and you're picking up grilled chicken and you're picking up grilled tofu and you're picking up things that were made fresh that day. They're not filled with all, you know, you're not going Speaker 4 (24:38) to- Speaker 5 (24:38) You Speaker 4 (24:38) mean people Speaker 5 (24:38) pick up tofu Speaker 4 (24:39) on purpose? Speaker 5 (24:40) I've done it before. Speaker 4 (24:41) Oh. That's pretty scary. Speaker 5 (24:43) But my point is you're not going to pick up, you're not going through McDonald's, you're not going to Sonic, you're not going through the drive-thru. You can do something just as quickly. You're just popping in the grocery store, picking up something that's pre-made. What would keep you from doing that and what has kept you from doing that is the question. Because I think you know that, right? What I said is not... Speaker 2 (25:02) I Speaker 5 (25:02) work Speaker 3 (25:02) a minimum of 10 hours a day, often goes to the 14-hour day. That's kind of where... Going to the grocery store is kind of like... Are Speaker 2 (25:15) you Speaker 3 (25:15) saying it's closed by the time Speaker 2 (25:17) you get there? Is that the problem? Not Speaker 3 (25:19) always, but also it's like by the time I get done my last job, the closest grocery store is like a 30 minutes out the way. Okay, Speaker 2 (25:27) so Speaker 3 (25:27) here's what I hear. What I Speaker 5 (25:29) hear is there's pre-planning that needs to happen. So what's happening is the time is happening to you. You haven't thought about it at all. And it's time to leave work. And you're like, oh, crap, it's eight o'clock. What's open? And now you're having to solve the problem on the fly. What I would suggest is solving the problem ahead of time and saying, here's what my rhythm has to be. I have to go to the grocery store on X day and I grab five meals and I keep them in the refrigerator in the hotel or I keep them in my cooler that's refrigerated in my car. And you just solve it ahead of time. This is just a pre-planning thing. I don't think it's a money thing. I don't even think that it's a you don't know what choices are available to you. I truly think it's just getting ahead of it and planning ahead. Because how long do you spend in each city or in each location? Speaker 3 (26:13) Normally a week to two. weeks and then they kind of give me different regions in that area so so you take your flight in you fly Speaker 4 (26:22) in on sunday usually oh Speaker 3 (26:24) i drive i have a work truck because i have tools i'm a fiber technician oh cool like i do even better different stuff Speaker 4 (26:30) even better okay so you're scheduled to get there two hours earlier than you used to correct on the first day and you go the grocery store and you go the grocery store and you load your cooler for the week with things you're going to make when you get back to the hotel room. Got it. That's the only thing you can do. Speaker 2 (26:52) That's all you can do. Speaker 4 (26:53) Because otherwise, you know, and you can take your lunch with you during the day, get up in the morning, make you a lunch, take it with you. We've all done that just about. Always. How old are you? Speaker 3 (27:07) I'm turning 30 this year and I'm running debt free by 30. Speaker 4 (27:10) Good for you. Well done. I'm proud of you. You're killing it, man. It's a great question, by the way. Speaker 2 (27:14) Yeah, Scott. When my husband and I, we used to do musical tours Speaker 5 (27:17) around the United States and sometimes a tour could be 14 or 21 days. And so that's what you do. And you could be in a different city each day. And so that's what we had to do. But our hotel was kind of in a central point. And so we would. We'd go to Whole Foods or we'd go to Publix, load up on the things we want. Just like Dave said, some things would be quick and prepared that we can just pull. out of the refrigerator and heat up and other things because we had a kitchenette. We could go in and say, okay, well, I am going to go ahead and grill this piece of tofu or I am going to go ahead and, you know, slice up this salad myself. And it truly is just getting ahead of it. And that's all there is to it. Speaker 4 (27:52) Yeah. So pre-planning in detail helps you do two things. One is it, um, It keeps the thing from happening to you. You're happening to it. Speaker 1 (28:02) You're being Speaker 4 (28:02) proactive Speaker 1 (28:03) in terms of the nutrition and the food selection. And you don't ever see the inside of a restaurant with what we're laying out. Speaker 5 (28:10) And you're going to spend less money. You're going to spend a lot less money. And you're going to get Speaker 1 (28:13) the stuff from a nutrition Speaker 4 (28:15) and health standpoint that you're actually looking for there. And you'll learn about that. It may be that you like, you know, like I think probably one of the best things on the planet is a ripe tomato personally. Speaker 1 (28:27) Because I'm from the South. A tomato sandwich? And I'm just saying. So if it was me, and if it was my wife too, we would probably figure out where the closest farmer's market was to where I'm getting ready to go to work for two weeks. And I'd probably hit that puppy on Speaker 4 (28:42) Sunday afternoon and load the veggies up, the fresh veggies like that. Dave, what do you make? My mouth is watering. I Speaker 2 (28:48) was going to say, what's I need to know? I Speaker 1 (28:50) don't Speaker 2 (28:50) make Speaker 1 (28:50) anything. Speaker 2 (28:50) No, what's your go-to meal? If Sharon Speaker 5 (28:52) said, Dave, it's on you tonight, what are Speaker 2 (28:55) you making? Speaker 1 (28:55) We would starve. Reservations. Not even a steak Speaker 5 (28:58) on Speaker 2 (28:59) the grill? Speaker 1 (29:00) Okay, I can throw a filet on the grill. I Speaker 5 (29:02) can Speaker 1 (29:02) throw a hamburger on the grill. I'm really good at a... Speaker 1 (29:08) Yeah, that's it. I believe that. I'm lame, but I'm really good at washing dishes. Speaker 2 (29:13) That's good. You got to do one or the other. I'm helpful with Speaker 1 (29:15) that, but I'm not completely a couch slug. I don't mean Speaker 4 (29:19) that, but yeah. But Speaker 5 (29:21) you bring up a good point because there are a lot of jobs that over the road truckers, like you have to be careful. You can't sacrifice. Speaker 1 (29:28) You'll end up very unhealthy. Yeah. If you live on fast food. I mean. What was the supersized me? You remember the McDonald's? Yes, Speaker 2 (29:36) I do remember that documentary. I cannot Speaker 1 (29:38) eat a Big Mac because of that guy. That Speaker 2 (29:40) guy passed away. He did? Didn't he? Speaker 1 (29:43) Yes, he did. You're right. Oh, that's awful. I shouldn't laugh. It's the irony of it. Oh, man. I Speaker 2 (29:49) mean, we all saw it. Yeah. But it's true. There's a level of Speaker 5 (29:53) health to that. Speaker 2 (29:53) That Speaker 5 (29:53) was about, Speaker 2 (29:53) what, 25 Speaker 1 (29:53) years ago or something. Poor McDonald's. It killed their sales. Even, Speaker 5 (29:56) let me. Take it around this way. Even in baby step two, when you are sacrificing everything, which you should, you should be sacrificing, cutting everything down as much as it can. However, I'll be the first to tell you, number one, beans and rice, rice and beans is not literal. If you like rice and beans, you should eat it. But you, Dave, people think it's literal. Speaker 1 (30:17) It's an example. I know. They send me cookbooks. Speaker 5 (30:19) They think it's only beans and rice. Speaker 1 (30:21) I Speaker 5 (30:21) get Speaker 1 (30:21) at least two