Increase Your Income, Expand Your Options

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Delony address listener questions about managing debt while facing significant medical expenses, career decisions,

Key takeaways

• Overwhelm can lead to poor financial decisions; creating a strict budget is essential for regaining control.

Main topics

• Managing medical debt with high-deductible insurance

Notable quotes

Money is a fabulous slave. It's a horrible master, and it's mastering you right now.

Conclusion

Financial peace begins with disciplined budgeting, emotional clarity, and

Transcript preview

Speaker 5 (0:04) Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Speaker 5 (0:14) Normal is broke. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, host of The Dr. John Deloney Show, is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Ryan is in Wake Forest, North Carolina. Hey, Ryan, what's up? Speaker 1 (0:45) Hi, Dave. How are you doing today? Speaker 5 (0:46) Better Speaker 2 (0:47) than I deserve. What's up? Speaker 1 (0:50) I'm in. Well, I'm calling because I'm a single mom of two, and I also take care of my mom. And my question today is about how do I manage paying off debt while I'm still incurring medical expenses from both her and I also have a daughter who was hospitalized, and she's got ongoing medical care that's needed as well. Speaker 2 (1:11) Okay. Speaker 2 (1:13) So you have health insurance, I assume. I Speaker 1 (1:18) have health insurance, but we have, yes, and we've come, we've maxed Speaker 2 (1:23) out Speaker 1 (1:23) the deductible, and we're getting close to maxing out the out-of-pocket expenses as well, too. But even that, the deductible is high because we have a high deductible insurance plan. Speaker 2 (1:37) Okay. And so what do you make a year? Speaker 1 (1:42) Well, 160. Speaker 2 (1:45) Okay. And how high is your deductible? It's Speaker 1 (1:50) 5,000. Speaker 2 (1:50) And what's your max out-of-pocket? Speaker 1 (1:53) Another 4,000. Speaker 2 (1:55) Okay. So $9,000 does not break you if you make 160. I'm confused. Speaker 1 (2:00) It doesn't break me, but I'm also, I've got other expenses that I'm trying to pay off as well. Speaker 2 (2:06) Okay. There's not, you don't pay off, I mean, if you have medical bills that are ongoing that exceed the 9,000, what would they be? Speaker 1 (2:17) That exceed the $9,000, it would be, well, so for my daughter, she's, I don't want to say too much, but she's got medical expenses that are going to be ongoing for the unforeseeable future. So she's got a chronic Speaker 2 (2:31) issue of some kind? Speaker 1 (2:34) Yes. Speaker 2 (2:34) Okay, but above the $9,000, do you come out of pocket for that situation? Speaker 1 (2:42) I'm sure because it's all fairly new. Speaker 2 (2:45) Well, it shouldn't be. There's Speaker 1 (2:47) some things that they cover and some things that they don't. Speaker 2 (2:49) Unless you're trying to get a treatment that your insurance company doesn't cover, the $9,000 should be the end of it. Now, okay, so you keep – I'm a little bit confused with the way you're using the words on pay off your bills. You pay your monthly bills. You pay your electricity. You pay your water. You buy food. You buy food. Speaker 1 (3:10) Sorry, I should have said debt. Okay, Speaker 2 (3:12) and then how much debt do you have? Speaker 1 (3:15) So I've got $20K in a car and $3K on a credit card, Speaker 2 (3:20) and Speaker 1 (3:21) then $190 mortgage. Speaker 2 (3:23) Okay, good, good. None of that's out of line. And Speaker 1 (3:25) part of that is an AT loan. So about $55K of that $190 is the AT loan. Speaker 2 (3:37) You mean like a second, like an HO, a home equity loan? A home Speaker 1 (3:42) equity loan. Speaker 2 (3:42) Okay. Okay. All right. And so you've got two house payments, a car payment and some credit cards, and you've got some ongoing medical bills with your daughter's chronic issues and you make $160,000. Speaker 1 (3:54) Right. Speaker 2 (3:54) Okay. Speaker 1 (3:55) And then there's my mother as well. Okay. Speaker 2 (3:57) And what are you having to pay for her? Speaker 1 (4:00) Personal, so nurse. So she's got several comorbidities, and so we're trying to pay a nurse to help take care of her. Speaker 2 (4:08) And does she have income coming into this situation? Speaker 1 (4:12) She's got Social Security, but it's not a lot. Speaker 2 (4:15) Like $1,200, $1,500, what? Speaker 1 (4:18) Yeah, somewhere around there. Speaker 2 (4:20) Okay, and what's the nurse cost? Speaker 1 (4:22) About 25 to, well, depending on how much experience I have, 25 and up an hour. Speaker 2 (4:30) Okay, but I mean in a month, what are you spending on a nurse? Speaker 1 (4:34) So we haven't, we just kind of use them part-time for now. Okay, and Speaker 2 (4:38) what Speaker 1 (4:38) are you spending on a nurse in a Speaker 2 (4:40) month? Speaker 1 (4:42) So about $1,000. And Speaker 2 (4:44) your mom brings in $1,200. Speaker 1 (4:46) Mm-hmm. Speaker 2 (4:48) Okay, so we covered that. Speaker 1 (4:50) But it will go up, yeah. Speaker 2 (4:51) Yeah, it will. But, I mean, for now, that's covered. In the last two months, you're trying to figure out why you weren't paying your bills, able to pay your bills, and pay extra on your debt. And that's what I'm trying to figure out by asking all these questions, where it's going. Okay, because I still haven't found where it's going. So it sounds like that you are a warrior princess working very hard, and you've got the emotional drain. of your mom not doing well and your child with a chronic illness. And because you're not running with a full gas tank, it's hard for you to not let all this just become chaotic. And so the bills in an emotional bucket, the bills, have become chaos. Speaker 2 (5:35) If you didn't have all this other stuff you were carrying, you're obviously a bright woman. You would just sit down and make a list of this and start paying it because the math tells me that this is doable. But I think what's happening is you're just overwhelmed. Does that sound right? Speaker 1 (5:51) That's true. That's true. I am overwhelmed. But it's more than that. It's that I feel like because I was in Baby Step number four, and now I feel like I'm crawling back to Baby Step number two because of the debt that keeps incurring. You went and bought a car Speaker 2 (6:05) and put yourself in Baby Step two. And you pulled out your credit card and you used it. Speaker 1 (6:13) Yeah, because I had to buy one because there were a lot of other expenses that had, you know, unforeseeable expenses that came up. You Speaker 5 (6:21) got a lot of have-tos in your life. Well, Speaker 1 (6:24) I mean, it was the HVAC system that went out, and the car, I had another car, but it had over 250,000 miles on it, and I had just spent $3,000 to get it fixed, and now it needs another $3,000. But you Speaker 2 (6:35) made the decision to put yourself back in this mess. You're giving me all the reasons, Speaker 3 (6:39) but you still did it. Speaker 3 (6:42) Don't hear ownership as a character judgment or some sort of moral failure. It's owning, I took step A, B, and C. The world happened to me, and I chose this path, not this path. And it hurts. And it hurts, yeah. And sometimes you find yourself at a crossroads where any path you take is going to hurt. But in that case, and that's most of us, right? When that happens, I'm going to take the path that's going to hurt, but going to get me to where I want Speaker 2 (7:10) to be. Yeah. So you've got to get back on a budget. Yeah. Hardcore. Beans and rice, rice and beans. And no more rationalization of pulling out the credit card or I had to have a car for $250,000. I don't give a crap. Don't go in debt again. Period. Period. Because then you end up strapped again back here. So nothing you have today can't be cleared up. The $20,000 car can be cleared up. The $3,000 credit card can be cleared up. And you can get back on the road. But you're going to have to get above the chaos and make these monkeys all dance. Because you're in the middle of a circus. And so there's just monkeys running around everywhere, and you're going to have to teach them how to get in a line and how to dance. And that's called a budget, and you crack the whip on the money monster and make it behave. Money is a fabulous slave. It's a horrible master, and it's mastering you right now. It's adding to this anxiety of being overwhelmed. You feel overwhelmed with money, with your child, with your mom. And so this is an area you actually can control. Speaker 2 (8:14) I was Speaker 3 (8:14) trained with that was really helpful for me when I entered into chaotic situations or facts or your friends. When everything feels like it's dumping on your head, what are the facts here? How much am I spending on nursing? How much am I spending on food? How much am I spending on this car? And what can I do to get out of this mess following the facts path here? Because the emotions are big. And that's right for them to be big. The path out here is what's the next right move? Speaker 6 (9:02) Hey guys, George Camel here. There are a lot of things you probably shouldn't ignore. Your check engine light, that weird smell in your fridge, the smoke detector that's been beeping for six days, and maybe most importantly... Your phone bill. The things we ignore have a funny way of costing us the most. And your phone carrier is counting on you, ignoring that overpriced bill month after month so they can keep charging you more and more. But that's not the case with Boost Mobile. You don't need to keep overpaying when you can pay just $25 a month for Boost Mobile's unlimited plan. And the best part is, you can bring your phone, keep your number, and pay just $25 a month forever. That price will not go up. It is inflation-proof. There's no contracts. There's no hidden fees. There's no catch. And since most smartphones have an eSIM these days, you can switch from the comfort of your home just like I did. So it's okay to notice when you're paying more than you should, but you shouldn't keep doing that. Stop overpaying for your phone service. Go to BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey and make the switch today. That's BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey. Speaker 4 (10:00) $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile Unlimited plan. Speaker 5 (10:12) Danny's in Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Danny, what's up? Speaker 7 (10:15) Hi there. It's nice to talk to you again. So my question was, I'm in baby step number two. I am actually recently engaged and I'm super excited about that. And we're planning a wedding for May of 2027. And I was wondering how you would help or how you would balance trying to pay off debt and finance a wedding as well as a honeymoon without going into further debt. Speaker 2 (10:45) Good, good. That's a good first goal. Congratulations. Thank you. What do you make and what does she make? Speaker 7 (10:54) Yeah, so I am a full-time pastor and a part-time lifeguard, and I make roughly about $45,000 a year. What does she make? Yeah, so she's a welder. She's new in her career. She's currently making about $18 an hour, and she's looking to join the union. And if she's able to do that, she'll be able to make roughly $25 to $30 an hour starting out. Speaker 2 (11:22) Okay. And has she just started the welding career? Because that's very low. Speaker 7 (11:28) Yeah, so she just graduated from trade school, and she's currently working full-time for a local organization. Speaker 2 (11:38) Yeah. Well, she's being dramatically underpaid. Oh, okay. Like half of what she should be paid in welding right now. There's a shortage of welders that know how to actually lay a bead down. And so I don't know who got her this job, but they screwed her over. So, I mean, she can make this at Target stacking boxes. without any education. I just paid some welders Speaker 3 (12:06) to do some work at my house, brother, and it was way, way more than what she's getting paid. I'm smiling now. I can't believe that. Yeah, so Speaker 5 (12:14) anyway, that's thing one. Now, how much debt do you have? Speaker 7 (12:18) Well, I've been on baby step number two for a couple of years. I have no consumer debt right now. The only thing I have is federal student loans. That's consumer debt. I'm an idiot. How much does your student loan debt? I was an idiot, and I took out a lot, and I currently got it down to about $90,000. Speaker 2 (12:38) Okay. And how much debt does she have? Speaker 7 (12:42) Absolutely zero. She's been a follower of the Beasley-Ramsay plan since she was 16. Speaker 2 (12:48) Okay. All right. And so what are you two planning to spend on the wedding? What's your budget that you came up with that you're going to spend on the wedding? Speaker 7 (12:56) Well, we wanted to keep it small, and so we're looking at somewhere between $3,000 to $4,000 for the wedding. And then we wanted to take a two-week vacation to somewhere either in Texas or maybe Mackinac Island or something. And so we're looking at probably about $2,000 to $3,000 to do that. Speaker 2 (13:14) Okay, so you need $6,000 by May. Speaker 7 (13:18) Give or take, yes, sir. Speaker 2 (13:19) Okay. That's $500 a month for a year. So $600 a month in your monthly budget, or $300 in your budget, $300 in her budget goes into the wedding account, and then you work on your debt. Speaker 7 (13:36) Yes, sir. Unfortunately, that would be almost everything I'm chunking at my debt right now. Speaker 2 (13:44) Okay. So you need a better extra job. Your extra job doesn't do well. Speaker 3 (13:48) Or, and I don't want to give a controversial statement here, but... You might not be able to do this ministry job at $45,000 because of previous decisions you made in your life to go six figures Speaker 2 (14:02) into student loan debt. A lot of ministers, as a matter of fact, somewhere around 80 % of pastors today are bivocational, meaning they have a full-time job in addition to being a preacher. Speaker 7 (14:12) Yes, sir. And I do work full time as a pastor. And, you know, I work about 20, 25 hours as a lifeguard and some instructor for my local YMCA. Speaker 2 (14:20) I Speaker 7 (14:20) find both of those to be really impactful for our community. They're not impactful enough on the $90,000. Speaker 3 (14:26) Yeah. And you're going to burn yourself out. You're not going to be there for your community in five years because you're going to be completely cooked. Speaker 2 (14:32) Yeah. You need to go make some money so that you can remain in the work of the Lord. because, you know, your lifeguard thing is semi-volunteer. I mean, you're not making any money there. And so you really, I mean, you do what you want to do, but you called us. And when you do that, you're always going to get our opinion because we're like an expert on our opinion. So, you know, I think you have an income problem, and you've got a slight outgo problem if you only got $300 a month out of $45,000. So you need to get on a detailed budget. and you need to be putting some money aside to the wedding, but you have a $6,000 goal by May, and the two of you sit down and go, okay, maybe she's putting in four, you're putting in two. I don't care. But both of you have some career adjusting to do. Neither one of you are living up to your potential income producing right now. And income and money is not everything, but it does give you options. And you don't have any options. You're Speaker 3 (15:29) handcuffed. I'm all about somebody deciding, you know what? I don't want to do this thing anymore. I want to go make a quarter of my quote unquote market value, whatever that is. And I want to just be here for my community. I love that idea. But if you've dug yourself a $90,000, $120,000 hole. You gave up that option. You gave up that option until you dig that, you fill that hole back up. So the fastest way to fill that hole back up and get back even on even ground is to go work a whole bunch of jobs and even do jobs that you might not think have impact, which I would argue with you on a different phone call. I think everybody who interacts with other people has an opportunity to impact people in a positive way, whether you're at a fast food restaurant or a delivery person or whatever. You gave up that right when you dug up those holes. I mean, when you dug yourself that big hole, you got to fill that sucker up. And that means you got to go get one job, two jobs. You may have to step away from your church for a season and go make a whole bunch of money doing something that you quote unquote don't feel called to do. But I got to clean up this mess so that I'm here in the long haul to be here for my family, for my community, for whatever I believe my faith Speaker 2 (16:32) is calling me to and all that kind of stuff. Yep. That's exactly how it works. So, again, we support pastors. We work with churches all across America, and we have for 30 years. And so we've got a huge heart for people that want to serve in that way and in that role. But just because it's – you don't get a pass on the math. That's it, yeah. You have to address the math in order to be able to stay in that kind of a role, and that's what we're looking for. Jessica's in Springfield, Missouri. Hi, Jessica. How are you? Speaker 2 (17:09) Better than I deserve. You're breaking up. Can you speak directly into your phone? Speaker 1 (17:13) Yes. Is this better? Speaker 2 (17:15) Yes, ma'am. Much better, yeah. All Speaker 1 (17:17) right. My question is whether it's a debate between me and my husband. Speaker 3 (17:23) Yes. We'll solve it. We'll solve it. Speaker 1 (17:26) Fantastic. So the question is whether or not he's being spoiled or if I'm being miserly, and it's related to cars. Speaker 2 (17:36) Okay. Both of you probably, but anyway, yeah. Speaker 1 (17:38) Both of us probably. So we have three aging cars, and they're all doing fine right now, but we imagine that his commuter vehicle will be the first that needs to be replaced, maybe in a year or so. The question is that he has bought several new cars in his lifetime, and that's what he would like to do again, and I disagree. I've never bought a new car, and I don't see any reason to. Okay. I suppose we are in baby step seven. We're free and clear. What's Speaker 2 (18:13) your net worth? Speaker 1 (18:15) I'm probably about five and a half thousand. We're not millionaires. Speaker 2 (18:21) Five and a half thousand? Speaker 1 (18:23) I'm sorry, five hundred. Five hundred Speaker 2 (18:25) thousand. You're a half a millionaire. Okay. Half Speaker 1 (18:28) a millionaire, yeah. Speaker 2 (18:29) We have Speaker 1 (18:29) the money to purchase a new vehicle, brand new, if we wanted to. I just don't really see the reason. So he says that after COVID happened, that depreciation on cars isn't what it used to be. Speaker 2 (18:43) He's wrong. Speaker 2 (18:46) Like comically Speaker 3 (18:46) wrong. Speaker 2 (18:47) Mathematically, arithmetic says he's wrong. Okay. And you can study it for 35 seconds on Google and you'll figure this out. I mean, it doesn't take it, you know, jump around and look. Look at a new car that was issued in a 23 model and see what the MSRP on it was, manufacturer suggested retail price, and then see what that 23 is selling for today. And it is not up. It's down, and it's down dramatically. And sorry, but the Fauci pandemic didn't help with that. I would Speaker 1 (19:20) agree. Speaker 2 (19:20) Yeah, you win. And we tell people not to buy brand-new cars because they go down so fast in value until you have at least a million dollars in net worth because they go down so fast in value. And we want you to build wealth, not screw it up. So you win, you win, and you win. Speaker 6 (20:09) Here's something that keeps a lot of parents up at night. Kids are growing up with more access to information than ever before in history. But most of the content is calculated to keep them distracted, make them mad, and keep them scrolling, not help them think for themselves. Worldwatch exists to be the antidote to the algorithms. Worldwatch is a video news service built specifically for preteens and teens. They're daily 10-minute videos that explain what's happening in the world through a factual Christian worldview. No outrage, no noise, just clear reporting you can watch together and that your kids can actually understand so they can come to the dinner table engaged and curious instead of worked up or zoned out. And I love that World Watch doesn't talk at kids. It gives families something to talk about. Because when my kids are older, I want them to be able to think for themselves and separate news from noise. And right now you can try World Watch free for 30 days. Click the link in the description or go to worldwatch.news slash Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey to get started. The Ramsey offer includes your first full month free on top of the standard seven-day trial. That's worldwatch.news slash Ramsey. Speaker 5 (21:36) Here's what's weird. I went to a thing when Speaker 2 (21:40) I was 22 years old and the guy put up compound interest on the table, on the board rather. And he showed us the way compound interest works. $100 a month. And I heard this 44 years ago, okay? $100 a month invested from age 25 to age 65 in a decent growth stock mutual fund at market rates of return is $1,176,000. Speaker 5 (22:09) See, I think you should not be allowed to get out of high school until you know that equation because it would stop all the stupid socialism stuff. Speaker 5 (22:19) Because Speaker 2 (22:20) you went, all I need is $100 a month, and I can live with, be a millionaire, you know, from age 25 to age 65, age 22 Speaker 5 (22:27) to age 62, age 20 to age 60. I don't care which 40 years you want to pick it out. You can wait until 40 and do it at 80 if you want, but I wouldn't recommend it. See, anyone can become a millionaire. It's not that complicated. George and I are doing an in-depth nerd dive. I don't know exactly what an MDF nerve dive means, but look that one up. We've listened Speaker 3 (22:48) to you talk. We know what it means. We know what it means. At Speaker 5 (22:50) Investing Essentials, which is the third time I've ever done this event, and it's our two-night virtual event next week. It's the only place I unpack my entire playbook on investing, why I Speaker 2 (23:02) do what I do, why I don't do what I don't do, including exact formulas and details on how I pick real estate, how I decide whether I'm going to keep it or not. Speaker 5 (23:12) All new content. We're also going into some wealth planning, a little bit of estate planning, looking at that. God, in case you're having trouble sleeping, come watch this event. It will put you right out. Yeah. Tuesday and Wednesday evening, join us from the comfort of your own recliner. I'm kidding. Tickets start at $199. Get yours at ramseysolutions.com slash events or click the link if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. God, John, there's like... 700,000 people have signed up for this thing. That's crazy. It's crazy. It's going to be like a lot of people sleeping. But yeah. No, we're going to go into the details. We're going to give... I mean, we've taken the material we did last year and... Sadly, we've added a bunch to it, so it's actually not going to be two nights of two hours. Brace yourself. It'll be longer than two hours because we're just not going to be able to cover everything we wrote. We want to do it all, so we're going to do it. There we go. Hey, it's going to be a lot. If you want a lot, you can get it next Tuesday and Wednesday. The Investing Essentials two-night virtual event with Speaker 2 (24:15) George and me. Let me say Speaker 3 (24:16) this. I think this is important for a big reason. that we don't talk about here in the building. I'm not embarrassed to say this. This is just truth. I knew you when I joined this team. I knew you had this show, and I knew you had this message, and I knew you've been consistent with your message. I don't know how nice way to say this. I didn't know you were as smart as you are, or maybe a better way to say that is I didn't realize the level of intentionality with which you made decisions. And even in the last five or six years, the, the way all of our interactions are chopped up and edited and put on clips and then people respond to clips or whatever. I can imagine there is millions of people who see you and hear you say a few things. And this is an opportunity for them to really understand why you do what you do, not only why you teach people, but it's why you do this in your own house. And that, to me, makes this thing worth its weight in gold. Way, way underpriced, if you ask me. Speaker 5 (25:18) Well, thank you. That's very Speaker 3 (25:20) nice. It's funny, but it's nice. Speaker 5 (25:22) Cecilia's in Orlando. Hey, Cecilia, what's up? Speaker 1 (25:26) Hi, how's it going today? Speaker 5 (25:27) Better than we deserve. How can we help? Speaker 1 (25:30) Lovely. So I'm about to get married. Yay! Yay, and I just got myself out of debt. Good. And I'm going to marry into a lot of debt. Good. My husband is a spendthrift. Mm-hmm. And so I'm trying to figure out, I know once we get married, I'm going to help him with getting out. We've already started the Ramsey program for him. Oh, wow, good. Yeah, and it's going pretty good. But once we get him out of debt, he's going to keep spending cash only. But how do I go about saving money and not putting it all towards his spendthrift ways? How old are Speaker 2 (26:12) you guys? Speaker 1 (26:14) 51 and 52. Speaker 2 (26:16) Very cool. Very cool. Well, congratulations. I think you're going to have a great marriage. Oh, we will. Speaker 1 (26:24) We've been together a long time. Speaker 2 (26:25) Opposites attract in good marriages. Spenders attract savers, and that's a good thing because spenders need a saver. That way they don't have to retire and eat dog food. Right? True. And savers need a spender in their life so they have a life. Speaker 4 (26:46) Very true. Speaker 2 (26:47) He's the fun guy. You're not. Speaker 1 (26:50) He is. I'm not. I like my books. Speaker 2 (26:55) And he's there to help you have fun. So I'm the spender at my house, oddly enough, and even though I teach this stuff, my wife is the natural saver. And so her natural tendency, if there's any kind of emotion involved in it, is to draw back and save. In my case, I'm an abundance guy. She's a scarcity gal. And so I always figure I can get more money. So I'm going to go do it. But we need each other to create wisdom in the middle. And wisdom is that we need to spend money on having a good life that we both are in agreement on. That's wisdom. We need to save and invest to create a quality future for us and our kids and our dogs and our cats. That's wisdom. And we need to be generous. And we need to be doing all of these things together. So you're going to have to, your job when you Speaker 5 (27:47) guys are sitting and looking at the budget is to allow some fun to be in the budget and also make sure your savings is in there. His job is to allow some savings to be in the budget and make sure that his fun is in the budget. Speaker 3 (28:03) Because, listen, Cecilia. Speaker 5 (28:04) And then when it's all written down, you just go do it and there's no guilt. Speaker 3 (28:08) Because if that's not the case, what you're telling me is a far more concerning thing. And that is you sat down with this man that's about to be your husband and you said, I'm uncomfortable with how you recklessly spend money. And he looked at his future wife and said, I don't care what you think. I don't care what you feel. I'm going to do what I want to do. And he didn't say that. He said, Speaker 2 (28:27) okay, let's get on a plan. Is that fair? Speaker 1 (28:29) No, we're on the plan. We have weekly budget meetings now. He just literally handed it all over. No, no, no, no, no, Speaker 5 (28:36) no, no. You are not his mother. You're his wife. Speaker 1 (28:39) Right. And we do have our budget meetings and he does have input and I adjust accordingly. But right now we're paying off his debt. Speaker 2 (28:47) Good. Awesome. Speaker 1 (28:48) So there's not a lot of wiggle. Speaker 2 (28:49) Great. You don't need to wiggle. You can pay off the debt. I completely agree. But I don't want him emotionally turning this over. The two of you, like two 51-freaking-year-old grown-ups, are making grown-up decisions together because it's good for our future. He's saying, I agree with Cecilia. I need to clean this up. And so the two of us are going to work on that together. That's an adult decision. Mommy, take my bills and pay them for me. is not what we want in a husband oh Speaker 1 (29:20) no no that we we don't play that game and Speaker 3 (29:23) Cecilia if y'all have been together for a while and he sat down and said I want to marry you and I'm going to change the way I'm doing things I'm going to take this Dave Ramsey course I'm going to follow these baby step things I'm going to do a weekly budget meeting he loves you but you showing up every meeting and going well he's just going to go spend it like Speaker 3 (29:43) Generally speaking, a husband will rise to their wife's level of belief in them. You get what I'm saying? Speaker 1 (29:52) Fair, yes. And Speaker 3 (29:53) if he's putting the work in, however clumsy and awkward it is, he's never done this in half a century, you seeing him do the next right thing, however uncomfortable it is or whatever, and you believing in him, Speaker 2 (30:04) man, that goes a long, long way. So I'll just fast forward. I mean, 28 years old, almost 40 years ago, we lost everything because of my stupidity, borrowing too much money and flipping houses. And the bank called our notes, and we lost everything, went bankrupt. But Speaker 5 (30:21) that's not the same Dave today that's on the microphone. And Sharon will tell you, thank God I'm not still married to the same guy I married originally. Yes. He has grown. And so while my tendency is to spend, the spending that we do at the Ramsey House is very much within the wisdom guidelines. And even if it might make her a little bit uncomfortable sometimes and it makes me happy, but still, it's nowhere near where it was. It's intentional. I can still have my tendency, but do it with