Debt Doesn’t Have to Run Your Life

The Ramsey Show

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, hosts Rachel Cruze and Jade Warshaw address a variety of financial dilemmas ranging from career transitions

Key takeaways

• Andrew, a plumber, is advised to transition to his side business full-time because his side income ($300k) significantly outpaces his primary salary ($180k).
• Joseph is cautioned against draining his Roth IRA to pay off $53,000 in credit card debt to avoid losing compound growth and incurring penalties.

Main topics

• Entrepreneurship and side hustles
• Credit card debt management

Notable quotes

Normal is broke and common sense is weird.

Conclusion

The episode serves as a guide for moving from financial chaos to stabi

Transcript preview

Speaker 5 (0:01) Doing nothing with your Medicare plan could cost you hundreds or even thousands next year. Chapter can help you avoid that. Go to AskChapter.org slash Ramsey. Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Speaker 2 (0:25) Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw. We are answering your questions about life and money. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. Up first, we have Andrew in Providence, Rhode Island. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the show. Speaker 4 (0:53) Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Speaker 2 (0:55) Absolutely. How can we help? Speaker 4 (0:58) So I have a question. So I'm a licensed plumber, and I'm very fortunate enough to have a high-paying job that I've been working for. It's going for many years. And a partner and I have opened up a side business that has actually turned into something within the last five years. And my question is, how do you know when it's time to stop? letting fear of the unknown hold you back and actually take the leap of going full time with the business. Speaker 1 (1:34) I Speaker 6 (1:34) love this question. So tell me more about the fear of the unknown. Like what's your fear? Like when you look at this, tell us the things that you look at and think, oh gosh, what if that happens? What if this happens? What if that happens? Tell us what it is. Speaker 4 (1:48) So I think a little bit of it has to do with financially. I mean, I'm not in any debt of any sort other than my mortgage. But like I said, I do have a high-paying job for the field that I'm in. And within this past year, I've proved to myself that the side business income can outdo my normal full-time income. How Speaker 1 (2:14) many months has it outdone your normal income? Speaker 4 (2:19) So my base income up to date is roughly like $180,000 for my full-time job. And my side job right now, I'm just over $300,000. Speaker 1 (2:35) Oh, my gosh. Wow. So every single month you've outpaced your normal job. And that's doing it part-time. Speaker 4 (2:41) Correct. So I'm not going to lie to you. So I am full time during the day for my company and then I'm full time for the side hustle as well. And that's another reason why I'm struggling and trying to figure out to make the jump because I do have a five year old child. Is it? I want to be there. What Speaker 2 (2:59) kind of industry is it that you're in? The side job? Speaker 4 (3:01) Plumbing and HVAC. Speaker 2 (3:03) Oh, is the side. Correct, yeah. That's what you started. Okay, I'm so sorry. I got you. But Speaker 6 (3:09) you have a partner, so if you were making three whatever you said, you're only receiving half of that, right? Speaker 4 (3:17) No, no, no. So we're over a million dollars this year between me and my partner. But what's profit? What's profit? Speaker 1 (3:25) So Speaker 4 (3:25) profit, we're roughly like $600,000 between the two of us. Speaker 6 (3:30) Wow. So you could take home $300,000? Speaker 4 (3:35) Yes. Speaker 1 (3:38) Okay, so what's in retained earnings? Speaker 4 (3:44) Sorry. So Speaker 6 (3:46) your company, you guys should have some money that you're setting aside. Six months would be good. Three months would be good of money that's like, hey, this is what it takes to operate the business. If we have down months or low months, what do you guys have set aside in the business? Speaker 4 (4:01) So right now we have roughly 70,000 set aside in the business. Every job that we complete, because it's just been a side hustle for us, we contribute 15 % back into the business. Very Speaker 1 (4:13) good. Speaker 2 (4:14) Okay. And usually these service companies, Andrew, they don't have great margins, but yours is unbelievable. So I'm wondering how you're... what this looks like with equipment and are you guys just going in and fixing? Are you installing? What are you guys doing? Speaker 4 (4:32) I would do everything. So we don't say no to anything. It's new construction, a lot of commercial projects within the last year. Speaker 2 (4:41) Okay. And Speaker 4 (4:42) that's what's making it tough now. It's to the point where it's kind of affecting my day job. Yeah, sure. I built a very good reputation with the employer that I work with. And it's not fair to him for me to be putting my effort into my own business and kind of lacking on, you know. Speaker 1 (5:01) So how many, Speaker 6 (5:02) obviously you're doing really well. And how many months have you been in business? Just Speaker 4 (5:07) this. So we've been doing, we've been a legitimate LLC for the last five years. Speaker 1 (5:12) Okay. And Speaker 4 (5:13) in the last five years, you know, we started out with, you know, just picking up crumbs and going $25,000 profit for the first year. And then the next year. So you've really just grown Speaker 6 (5:25) organically to this point. And honestly. When I hear that, Andrew, it sounds like somebody, it sounds like two people who have done this the right way, which is you started with what you had, a little bit of time here, a little bit more here. And now you're at the point where it's like, gosh, you've really grown this. You've got the 70,000. How many operating months is 70,000? What does that get you? Let's just say you had a couple of down months. What is that 70? How far does that 70,000 go? Speaker 4 (5:56) I mean, I think it would carry us for a good two to three months. I mean, it varies because some of our supply house bills in a month can be $30,000, $40,000, and then sometimes it could be $10,000. Yeah. So it's, yeah. Speaker 2 (6:13) Well, you've given us, I mean, honestly, Andrew, I feel like you've been overly conservative to stay in your full-time job. Because, I mean, we usually would say if someone's side hustle makes it like even half of what their normal. gig is making and they could double the time on the side hustle to match it. Like that's a really good starting point. And some people just kind of jump ship and start there because they're pretty confident. And Speaker 1 (6:35) you've done it Speaker 2 (6:35) for lots of months. And you've doubled it. I mean, you've tripled. About doubled. Yeah. Doubled what you would have made. And there's enough proof that, I mean, obviously the business and how you guys are running it is working and it's been slow. So, I mean, I for sure think. doing this full time. Because I think there does get to a point, like what you're saying is you're, someone's paying you to do another job. If you're doing something else, you know, like, so, no, I think, I think you're to that point. I think one of the biggest red flags we sometimes see or avenues that people can walk down that is not great, especially in the service industry, because we work with so many small businesses and entre leadership. Speaker 2 (7:17) As you put all your efforts into this, because it's just been split a little bit because of your other job, it probably is going to continue to grow, but grow at the speed of cash because it's so easy to be like, gosh, we need three more trucks. We need to hire someone. And again, equipment in this industry, which you would know better than I would. But yeah, it's a lot to manage inventory and all of it. And so making sure you're ahead from a cash perspective and you don't go down the debt road. would be the only time I could see you getting in trouble and getting in over your skis. Speaker 4 (7:50) Got it. Speaker 2 (7:50) I Speaker 6 (7:51) agree. And we'll gift you Dave's book, Build a Business You Love. It sounds like you're on the right track, but that can help you fill in any gaps to continue to grow this. And yeah, I mean, I'm with Rachel. I would say green light. Like if your Speaker 1 (8:02) wife feels good about it and you feel good about it, make the jump. You're there financially for sure. Yes. And in that book, I'm pretty sure. Speaker 2 (8:10) it has a section on partnerships or on trade leadership. But it's something to consider too. If you're going all in on this business and there's someone else tied to it, Andrew, which obviously you and your partner have done this for five years, so you're in motion. But just being out ahead, if this is your livelihood, of what that looks like from the partnership perspective, if something happens or what that looks like, that could be another conversation to have just to... mitigate any level of risk in it. But that's amazing, Andrew. That's like everyone's dream is to start something on the side that they love and they're good at and it takes off and that's their livelihood. It's awesome. So well done. Congratulations. Yep, well done. Speaker 8 (9:12) Hey guys, George Campbell here. There are a lot of things you probably shouldn't ignore. Your check engine light, that weird smell in your fridge, the smoke detector that's been beeping for six days, and maybe most importantly... Your phone bill. The things we ignore have a funny way of costing us the most. And your phone carrier is counting on you, ignoring that overpriced bill month after month so they can keep charging you more and more. But that's not the case with Boost Mobile. You don't need to keep overpaying when you can pay just $25 a month for Boost Mobile's unlimited plan. And the best part is you can bring your phone, keep your number, and pay just $25 a month forever. That price will not go up. It is inflation-proof. There's no contracts. There's no hidden fees. There's no catch. And since most smartphones have an eSIM these days, you can switch from the comfort of your home just like I did. So it's okay to notice when you're paying more than you should, but you shouldn't keep doing that. Stop overpaying for your phone service. Go to BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey and make the switch today. That's BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey. Speaker 4 (10:11) $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile Unlimited plan. Speaker 2 (10:32) Next up, we have Joseph in Fort Lauderdale. Hi, Joseph. Welcome to the show. Speaker 4 (10:38) Hi, how are you? Speaker 2 (10:39) Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? Speaker 4 (10:41) Good. So I have a Speaker 2 (10:42) question. Speaker 4 (10:42) So I have about, I did the math, we have about $53,000 worth of credit card debt. Speaker 2 (10:49) Okay. And Speaker 4 (10:49) I have a retirement of a pension and I have a thing called what's called like a drop account. It's a deferred retirement option plan when you retire. So when you separate from your job, you still work at your job, they take your pension money and they invest it for five years. Speaker 1 (11:07) In what? In Speaker 4 (11:08) five years, you completely separate. Oops, sorry. Speaker 1 (11:11) What's it invested in? Speaker 4 (11:13) In the market. It's like an index. I'm not sure. Speaker 1 (11:16) Okay. Speaker 4 (11:17) It's some kind of like, I don't know if it's an index fund or something. Okay. But it's market rate. Okay. So when you officially retire, you now have your pension. You have your drop account, they call it. Okay. And then you have that. So I was thinking about taking my Roth IRA that I've been putting into the last couple of years and just depleting that and just paying off the car debt. Speaker 4 (11:43) Because I have the other two retirements when I retire. That makes sense. Speaker 1 (11:47) Right. But you've got time to pay off the $53,000. How old are you? Speaker 4 (11:52) Right. 35. Speaker 1 (11:54) How much do you make? Speaker 4 (11:56) I think last year we took in about $120,000 or $125,000, I think. And then my wife took in probably like another $9,000. She works part-time. Speaker 2 (12:06) Okay. Okay. So about $130,000 before taxes. So no, Joseph, I would not pull money out of any retirement accounts because not only are you unplugging all the growth that it's building into right now. But you are going to be paying a penalty when you pull the money out early. And so avoiding that penalty, letting that money go, and then cash flowing this credit card debt. Because I guess it technically would be an easy button just to take money out and then pay off the debt and be done. But again, you're unplugging something that is continuing to grow. And yes, even if you feel like you have enough. in the other retirement accounts, I would say I would rather have more in retirement and sacrifice for about 14 months of my life and pay off this credit card debt. What Speaker 1 (13:02) else do you have in retirement? What's in the pension? What will be in that deferred drop? Speaker 4 (13:10) Sorry. Yeah, the pension is just based off your salary at the end of your career, like at the end of when you go to retire, things like the last couple of years. Speaker 6 (13:17) Okay. So Speaker 4 (13:18) it fluctuates Speaker 6 (13:19) depending Speaker 4 (13:20) on what the salary is. I Speaker 6 (13:22) guess my bigger question, let me get to my, are you trying to retire earlier than average? Is that what you're attempting to do? Speaker 4 (13:28) Well, yeah, like my retirement, I would be eligible to retire probably around, what is it? I have like 15 years left. Speaker 6 (13:37) OK, I guess I was Speaker 4 (13:38) trying to Speaker 6 (13:41) get to it's it's generally and Rachel talked about this, but it's generally a pretty desperate act for people to be looking towards draining their retirement to pay off a debt or pay off their, you know, pay off their home early or something like that. And so I was just trying to find out what was so dire straits that you felt like you needed to do something like that. Speaker 4 (14:00) I was just kind of sick of the paycheck to paycheck. We messed up. We made a mistake. Some of it we had to do. Some of it we didn't have to do. Is the $53 Speaker 6 (14:10) ,000 the only debt? Or is there more out there? Speaker 4 (14:13) Yeah, that's the only debt on credit card. We have about $150,000 in our... We have a mortgage for like $360,000. Speaker 1 (14:23) And Speaker 4 (14:24) then we took out... We had to replace a few things. So we took out like $100,000. $50,000 equity. Speaker 1 (14:30) Okay, so there's a HELOC of $150 Speaker 4 (14:32) ,000? Speaker 6 (14:33) Yeah, Speaker 4 (14:33) locked in rate at 8%. Let's Speaker 6 (14:35) talk about that for a second because my question is what caused the $53,000 of credit card debt and you're making $130,000, you're feeling like you're living paycheck to paycheck. That kind of feels like a budget issue or like a month-to-month issue. I mean, the truth is you make too much to feel that broke. Wouldn't you agree? Speaker 4 (14:55) Yes. Speaker 6 (14:56) Yeah. So if I were you, do you guys have an every dollar budget? Speaker 4 (15:00) Yeah, I have the app. I haven't really used it. There we go. Yeah. I Speaker 6 (15:06) think that's the problem here. I think that if you and your wife opened up EveryDollarTonight and just said, you know what, our homework for this week is we're actually going to set a budget that we both agree with. We're going to sit down together. We're going to fill this thing in and we're going to let this be the guiding principle of how we spend our money. And I think that when you sit down with that, Joseph, you guys are going to find. where you actually do have margin. And I think you're going to find the areas that you had no idea that you were overspending in such a major way. Yeah, Speaker 2 (15:36) because you guys have been shuffling around debt to fix things. You've got the HELOC out, you know, the credit card debt. Now you want to pull money from retirement to pay this off. But never once have you had to say... What do I have to change? I can't just be grabbing money from all these places to fix the problem. Right. The problem with our money is us. Right. And so by doing the budget, like what Jade's saying, it's going to expose and show you guys how you're actually handling money. And the scary thing is people will do that with retirement accounts and then they look up in two years. No habit has changed. They keep living how they've been living. And you look up and you got another. $25,000 in credit card debt. And you're like, oh man, we shouldn't have done that. But the pain of the process of forcing yourself to change and forcing yourself to pay this off, that changes you guys as a couple. And ultimately that's Speaker 1 (16:28) what Speaker 2 (16:28) you want at the end of the day is we don't want an easy button to press and to wipe this clean because that doesn't do much for our behavior change. My prediction, Speaker 1 (16:38) Joseph. Speaker 2 (16:39) My prediction Speaker 6 (16:39) is you guys, you'll sit down tonight, you'll do this budget. You're probably going to find that much of the money that you are looking for has been eaten away in some form of entertainment or meal or grocery or trips, right? And when you start to tighten that up, my guess is that you'll be out of this $53,000 of debt in the next year or so. You'll be able to clean it up. And then you're going to save three to six months of expenses. And I think once you do that, it's going to change the whole trajectory of how you... Speaker 6 (17:18) No, no. Speaker 4 (17:33) Yeah. Speaker 2 (17:34) So, I mean, honestly, $3,000 a month gets you guys out of debt in about 18 months, 17, 18 months. And my prediction is, my hope is that as you guys go through this process, you find more money somewhere else that's not retirement. And you're like, oh, you know, there's some here. Throw it. You get a raise. You decide to work an extra job. Like, right. This snowball effect really happens. And pay off, is it multiple credit cards? How many? equal to 53. Yeah, I Speaker 4 (18:02) think if you all of them together, it's like six total. Okay. So Speaker 2 (18:06) list them out, Joseph, smallest to largest, each of those credit cards and start with the smallest one and just and knock it out. And you start going down that list and down that line. And there's something empowering about it. And it's Speaker 7 (18:19) a Speaker 2 (18:19) it's another testimony that credit cards, they're not helpful. They're not there to help you and set you up to win. Right there. Speaker 7 (18:26) Right. Speaker 2 (18:27) They've gotten you guys in trouble. So cut them up. All six of them need to be gone. And this is really shifting from this paycheck to paycheck living out of desperation. We're going to pull money from our house, from our retirement, just to feel more secure. You're going to go from there all the way to actually, from a numbers standpoint, truly being secure because you're going to. Be in control of your income doing a budget. You're going to be paying off your debt. And in 18 months, you will have no credit card debt. You'll still have your retirement account out there. And you guys will have your money that you're working so hard for. And you're going to control it and actually be the adults in the room. And that's Speaker 6 (19:04) a Speaker 2 (19:04) beautiful thing. And then you expand that out. 10 years and a lot of great things can happen. So Speaker 6 (19:11) Joseph, Speaker 2 (19:12) you've Speaker 6 (19:12) been given some very clear homework and I'm going to add one more thing to the list that's going to help you find money really fast. So we told you tonight you're doing every dollar. We'll give you that for free. Rachel said, do the debt snowball, list them smallest to largest. That's the way to do it. She also told you to cut up your credit cards and I'm going to add one. final piece of homework, which is I want you to pause retirement investing. I think that you're still putting some aside to go to that drop account. Let's pause that temporarily so you have that money at your disposal so that you can do the things that Rachel is telling you. Those four pieces of homework. Speaker 2 (19:43) Yep. Well done, Joseph. We're glad you called in. Call us back. Let us know how it goes. But we're here cheering you guys on. Speaker 8 (20:20) If you're shopping online, and these days everybody does, data brokers are out there right now buying and selling your personal information. Your phone number, your home address, your email, without your knowledge or consent. And that puts you at risk for spam calls, scam texts, and fraud. Combined with AI, those scams are getting more sophisticated every day. And trying to get it under control yourself is basically impossible unless you have Delete.me. DeleteMe goes to hundreds of these creepy data broker sites, finds your info and removes it, and you never have to lift a finger. Plus, they keep monitoring for it and removing it if and when it pops up again. You don't have to remove your own info every time it pops up, like some unwinnable game of whack-a-mole. I personally use and love DeleteMe, and my scammy texts and spammy calls have gone way down. Trust DeleteMe to smack down data brokers and protect your personal info so the game of whack-a-mole can finally stop. Go to joindelete.com slash Ramsey and you'll get... 20 % off an annual plan. That's join, J-O-I-N, deleteme.com slash Ramsey, or click the link in the description. Speaker 2 (21:36) Jade, on the last call, we were talking about part of getting control of your money is doing every dollar. Yes. And getting control of your income is one of, really, one of the basic first steps of winning with money, because your income is what you do everything with, right? From saving to giving to investing to paying off debt. And so using your income... for good things in your financial world is very important, but knowing where it's going is what's key. So if you guys haven't checked out EveryDollar, make sure to do that. You can do it for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. So not only is it a great budget, there's great budgeting features in it to help you control your income and know where it's going, but also just the roadmap of your overall financial picture. So again, you can download it in the App Store or Google Play. Let's go to Matthew in Orlando. Hi, Matthew. Welcome to the show. Speaker 7 (22:24) Hi, how are you today? Speaker 2 (22:26) Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? Speaker 7 (22:28) Good. So I am 20 years old. I make about $58,000 a year. I'm a server in Orlando. And my question is, I'm looking to get my first home, a condo, about $110,000. And there's a program in my area, like in Orlando, that's a down payment assistance. That's a forgivable grant for $40,000. that I don't have to pay back as long as I live there for 15 years. I have a car payment. I owe about $23,000. I bought about two years ago at $358 a month. And then I have two personal loans with each balance is about $5,000. One is $147 a month and one is $121 a month. Okay. And then I have about eight credit cards, but I have no balances on them. Then why have them? Just as comfort? Well, I have them. Well, I have the United card, and I do that to get all my miles, but I don't have any debt on them. Okay. Speaker 1 (23:37) I'm so glad you called in, Matthew. And I just, I don't know how you Speaker 7 (23:42) guys feel about down payment assistance, or I just, I wanted some advice. Speaker 2 (23:46) Yeah, they're usually not great programs. Either you're having to get a double loan and they do a down payment loan with the mortgage. Like there's that. There's sometimes fees associated with these or strings attached. 15 years in a condo, Matthew? Crazy work. No, no, we're not doing that. We can't do that. You're not going to be in that condo for 15 years, Matthew. Let's take a poll. Speaker 6 (24:08) There's we have a wonderful studio audience out there. How many of you have been in the exact same place with zero movement and zero change in your life for 15 years? Speaker 2 (24:18) Well, just the kids. We have a school. We have just the high school school age Speaker 1 (24:23) people back there. They're all raising their hands. The point is, that is not the case ever with anyone's life. I mean, what if you get a new job? What if something Speaker 2 (24:32) happens and you. have to move. You don't want to lock yourself into a situation for 15 years. And that's, and I would say that with a job, I would say that with a student loan forgiveness thing, I would say that with a mortgage, like anything, if it sounds too good to be true, Matthew, it usually probably is. And this doesn't even sound that good to be true. Yeah, Matthew, you are not in a position, I don't think, to own a home. I know you want to, and I want you to be able to soon. But right now, I mean, man, you got... You got a car that's almost half your annual income. You got two loans. You're playing the credit card game. I mean, there's just a lot up in the air. Speaker 6 (25:07) I mean, you're not, let's just call a spade a spade. You're just, you don't have a good financial foundation right now. And if you build anything on top of that foundation today, it's going to crumble. Didn't you say you're 20 years old? Speaker 7 (25:20) Yes. Speaker 6 (25:20) So why are you in such a, why do you feel such a rush to buy a house? under such, to the point of finding assistance and not putting a down payment? Why do you feel such rush? Speaker 7 (25:33) Well, I actually, I wasn't technically in a rush. I've been renting for about a year and a half, but then I heard about this program. I was going to wait a few years and save for the 3%, and then that's when I was going to do it. But then I heard about this program, and... I just I didn't really know if it was that good of a decision. And I wanted to look into it more. And I wanted to see your guys' show. I watch your TikToks. Well, Rachel and I are trying to get out of my personal loans. And I think I can get out of that within a year. Oh, good. Yes. Yes. Speaker 6 (26:04) Rachel and I are going to be your big sisters and help you with this, because I think, Matthew, you're in such a. a wonderful place. You're still really young. You're 20 years old. And now is the time to lock in on the habits that are really going to help you solidify that foundation that we were talking about earlier. And Rachel is right. $23,000 car. My first place to start would be for you to have $1,000 saved. It sounds like you don't have any saved. So let's get $1,000 saved. That's baby step one. I have Speaker 7 (26:35) about $5,000. Speaker 6 (26:37) Okay, then that moves us on to baby step two, which if you follow our TikToks, you know, we are going to tell you to drain that down to $1,000. And we're going to tell you to put any extra savings above the thousand onto your debt, just consumer debt. And let's knock that out along with your income. You have the eight credit cards that have a zero balance. If you really do rock with what we're saying, let's go ahead and cut those up because it's just temptation in your pocket waiting to happen. And you're Speaker 2 (27:03) spending more with them. Just so you know, versus if it was a debit card. Speaker 7 (27:08) Yeah, well, I always like pay off my balances and I got built up my miles and my points. But Speaker 6 (27:13) look what you have to show for it. You don't have anything to show for it, Matthew. You've only got a bunch of debt and you were looking over here trying to do a crazy down payment assistant program that was going to put you in a worse way. So I would argue that what you're doing right now isn't giving you much to show for it. Because right now, if we were. putting positive money habits as tally marks, positive and negative. I don't see any that are in the positive just yet. Speaker 2 (27:41) Besides the $5,000 that you saved. Yeah, you got the $5,000. That's good. We applaud you for that, for sure. But everything else, it's just, yeah, it feels a little... Speaker 2 (27:52) You're playing the game. It's like a little sloppy. I think if you tightened it up and you said, you know what, I'm only spending a certain amount on food every month. I'm only doing this, this, and this. I'm just using my money. I'm going to spend my money in the present, meaning I'm not going to get a bill at the end of the month. And you are like really militant, Matthew, and maybe you even work extra hours. I think you can get this cleaned up. And you may even consider selling your car. I mean, I don't know how much it's worth, but that's something to look into too if you want. So there's some levers to pull here that I think will help you get ahead. But continuing to play the debt game and going deeper in debt with this assistance program before you even have an emergency fund saved would not be wise. So no, I would hold off on being a homeowner. And start working your way out of this debt first and foremost. But you can do it, Matthew. I mean, honestly, this is so many people start at this point and they make such progress so fast. Speaker 6 (28:50) Yeah. And, you know, again, 20 years old, I think there's a lot of pressure out there. You feel like you're competing with whatever you see on social media. You feel like you're competing with what you feel like. you know, you should have by now. Some of us are competing with what our parents have and we're trying to create that life that we just came out of. You know, they've got the homes and the cars and they're taking the vacations. And so I would just tell you, Matthew, that you are in exactly where you need to be. You've got your first job. It sounds like you're making a good amount of money, but now let's lock in on the right habits that are actually going to build a good foundation to where you can build lasting wealth. And it really does start with taking your money to Rachel's point and deciding what you're going to do with it. If you make the right choices with your own income, you will not have to borrow a dime from anyone until it, you know, when you come time to buy a house, that's fine if you want to do a small mortgage there. But do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yes. It's Speaker 2 (29:42) powerful. All right. We got Angela from Facebook. She said, what are your thoughts on making micro payments to pay down debt at the end of every pay cycle? I may have 20 to 30 dollars left in my budget. Should I go ahead and throw that at my smallest debt to lower the balance or throw a little bit at each one? Speaker 6 (29:58) So I liken this to on a Saturday morning, if you've ever had like a huge list of chores. Yes. And you're like, all right, I'm going to do a little bit of the gardening, but I'm not going to finish it. I'm going to kind of do the dishes, but not finish it. I'm kind of going to put a load of laundry in, but not finish it. I'm going to vacuum half of the room, but not finish. Like you will have spent the whole day toiling and not have one single thing to show for it. Completed. Nothing completed. But how great would it feel to just vacuum and then check that off your list to finish the dishes, check it off your list. It's the same thing with debt. Finish one, focus on the smallest debt. And that goes for anybody listening. Whatever your smallest debt is, you might have 10 debts. I challenge you, focus on the one debt. Make minimum payments on everything, but focus all your extra margin to the smallest debt. I promise you, you will pay it off quickly and you will feel so