Break The Borrowing Cycle

The Ramsey Show

Hosts Jade Warshaw and Rachel Cruze navigate a series of financial dilemmas ranging from managing debt during pregnancy to the risks of luxu

Key takeaways

• Utilize 'Stork Mode' to temporarily pause debt repayment to build a larger emergency fund before a baby arrives.
• The Debt Snowball method, focusing on the smallest debts first, provides the psychological momentum needed for success.

Main topics

• Ramsey Baby Steps
• Debt Snowball Method

Notable quotes

Normal is broken. Common sense is arbitrary.

Conclusion

The episode reinforces the importance of disciplined, principle-based

Transcript preview

Speaker 8 (0:03) Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Speaker 2 (0:12) Normal is broken. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life and your money. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Rachel Cruz. We'll be taking your calls about life and money for the next hour or so. So if you want to get in, get in where you fit in. The number is 888-825-5225. Rachel, you ready to get into it? Oh, yeah, let's do it, Jade. All right, let's go to the line where we've got Ethan on line four. What's going on, Ethan, from St. George, Utah? Speaker 1 (0:44) Hi, how are you guys doing? Speaker 2 (0:46) Doing all right. How can we help? Speaker 1 (0:49) Okay, so I've got a question. Me and my wife, we just got married at the beginning of May, and we moved past baby step one, and we're on baby step two. And we recently found out that she's expecting in late April, early May. Oh, Speaker 3 (1:05) congratulations. Thank Speaker 1 (1:06) you. And I was just curious. I've got about $20,000 liquid cash, but... I'm in about $62,000 in debt. I've got about $8,000 on a truck loan. And then I've got about 54,000 on a piece of property that we just signed on. And I was just curious, is it all right for me to keep like a 20 to $25,000 emergency fund temporarily until the baby comes? Speaker 2 (1:38) Absolutely. I mean, that's exactly what we would teach. We kind of call that stork mode over here, which is the idea there's Speaker 1 (1:45) a Speaker 2 (1:45) baby coming, the stork's coming, you get it. And so there's some uncertainty during that time. And so financially to pause what you're doing on the baby steps and stack up money to prepare for that. is really the wisest choice because the truth is there are a lot of unknowns. I mean, gosh, God willing, we hope that you go in, have the baby. There's no problems, no NICU stays, no extra expenses, but you never know what's around the bend and just have the money for that. I always like, Ethan, for people to have a good bead on what their out-of-pocket max is, what their deductible is. And I really feel like that's a fair amount to kind of have the goal of stacking up. getting ready for a baby. And then after the baby comes and everything's all good, yeah, you can push play on the baby steps. Speaker 3 (2:32) Yeah, Ethan, how much money could you put away each month between now and then? Speaker 1 (2:38) So between me and my wife, we make about $90,000 to $100,000 a year to take home. And right now, we don't have to pay rent or anything. And we will start having to pay rent in either October or November. So realistically, we could put away $4,000 or $5,000 a month. Speaker 3 (2:57) Is that with rent? Speaker 1 (3:00) That is with range, yes. Speaker 3 (3:02) I don't know. Okay, Jade, tell me this because we do talk about stork mode. But you already have $20,000, Ethan, in the bank. You got an $8,000 truck and then you have this piece of property. There's a part of me that I would keep the $20,000 if you want to bump it up next month to $25,000. And then I may work on selling the truck just because it's $8,000 and you guys have, I don't know, $4,000 coming in for the next eight months. Speaker 3 (3:29) So there's a part of me that I'm like, you're going to have, gosh, 70,000 sitting in. You'll have a lot in there. So part of me just says, get the eight grand, take care of that once you have your emergency fund funded where you want it to be before the baby. Because normally people don't have this amount sitting there in Baby Step 2, Ethan. When we talk about the Baby Steps, Baby Step 1 is $1,000. Yeah, for sure. And then you throw everything else at the debt. So usually if people get pregnant in Baby Step 2, they only have $1,000. So we're like, Pause everything. Speaker 2 (3:58) You know, Speaker 3 (3:58) save up an emergency fund between now and then. But because you guys have that 20 grand sitting there, I don't know, there's a part of me that'd say cash flow paying off the car by the end of the year. I Speaker 2 (4:07) think you should. Like I said, as long as you are covering... What really could just be your out-of-pocket max. I think that you're good for the year. I think that's a lot. And that's usually like 10 or 12, I guess, depending on the quality of your insurance. But just check that. And then I love Rachel's plan. I think that's excellent. You can do a little bit of both and be covered both ways. Speaker 1 (4:28) Gotcha. For sure. Awesome. Well, thank you guys. Speaker 3 (4:32) Yep. Absolutely. You actually answered Speaker 1 (4:33) my question and I was just curious on that because I've listened to quite a few episodes and wasn't 100 % clear on that, but I got my answer. Awesome. Well, Speaker 2 (4:41) thanks. Good luck. Good luck with everything. Yes. As a new parent. So good. Thanks for the call. Drew is next in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hey, Drew, how can Rachel and I help today? Speaker 1 (4:51) Hi, how are you? Speaker 2 (4:53) Really good. What's up? Speaker 1 (4:55) I am curious to hear your guys' perspective on what I should do with my house. So to give some context, I recently bought it. I moved in around the end of June. There have been some terrible, wicked gang violence in the area. So I decided, considering I'm getting married in a few months and I do not want to bring my future wife into that home, Did you not know the area when Speaker 2 (5:24) you purchased it? Are you new to the area? How did that? Speaker 1 (5:27) Not well enough. Not well enough. So I will fully admit, like I did not do enough research as I should have to fully investigate that area. But. Speaker 1 (5:38) Yeah. I mean, some of those were pretty bad soon after I moved in. Sure. Speaker 3 (5:44) Yeah. I don't blame you. Yeah. Speaker 1 (5:46) Right. Yeah. I don't. So I put it back on the market. Currently it's been on there for two weeks and there's been one showing, one open house, one person that came to the open house. So really two people have visited in the last two weeks. I listed it for, well, I bought it for $268 with... Seller paid $7,000. So $261,000. re-put it on the market for $275,000. It's now listed at $268,000, so what I bought it for. My realtor and I were contemplating, you know, with the lack of interest in the home and the current market to explore the option of buy-down or even other options such as renting or just dropping the listing price. Well, before Speaker 2 (6:42) we do that, I mean, it's only been on for two weeks, which is if you go to our real estate hub, RamseySolutions.com slash real estate, if we type in Minneapolis, Minnesota, we can see that like median days on market for your area is 39 days. And you're at 14 or 15. So you're not, there's no reason to panic just yet. But I do want to ask the question, the type of violence that was taking place, was this like all over the news and everybody knows it's your area? Or was this kind of isolated and just the folks around you know about it? Speaker 1 (7:15) He was on the news, yeah. Speaker 2 (7:17) Okay, so you feel like that specifically is impacting people wanting to purchase because now everybody knows this is a bad neighborhood. Speaker 1 (7:26) I see what you mean. I don't know exactly if that would play into the disinterest in the home. That's a great question. I haven't really considered that. Well, I Speaker 2 (7:38) don't know either, and I'm not suggesting that it is. I more so was asking you if you felt like it were. But yeah, 39 days is median. So I would say give it time, right, Rachel? Speaker 3 (7:49) And then there was shootings next to you. So I'd give it an extra 20 on top of that. So give it two months. You know what I mean? Just give it two months. And yeah, I would be a little bit more patient than jumping in because you probably don't want to rent it. Definitely not. Yeah. And then all these other programs get pretty messy. So I would be patient. Speaker 3 (8:11) And if you want to move out in the meantime, you'd be paying rent and a mortgage. I don't know if you want to do that, but you'll probably be fine. I mean, I don't know. I would think you're okay. I understand you don't want to bring a family there. So yeah, and check out our real estate agents too, Drew, because our trusted real estate pros are like the top of every market are these real estate agents. They're amazing. And so... Maybe just talk to two of them and just kind of get some feels and see if they know, because they're going to know the area, see what they think. Speaker 3 (8:58) Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz. If you're working the baby steps, every major expense deserves a second look. And healthcare is one of the biggest expenses in most families' budgets. And that is why I recommend that you check out Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM isn't insurance. It's a health cost-sharing ministry. That means members help pay one another's medical bills. And they've been serving Christians since 1981. CHM programs start at just $115 a month. And here's why that matters. If you are paying more than you need to for healthcare, that money could be going toward paying off debt, building your emergency fund, or reaching your next financial goal. And your monthly cost isn't based on your medical history or where you live. Y'all, a lot of families find CHM gives them more room in the budget. That's why so many members say they're better with CHM. And right now, new members can receive a 50 % credit towards their first month of membership. Go to chministries.org slash budget and use promo code Ramsey. That's chministries.org slash budget and promo code Ramsey. Speaker 2 (10:21) All right, back to the phone lines we go. We've got Caleb who's in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Caleb, you're on the line. Speaker 5 (10:27) Hey, thanks for having me on. Speaker 2 (10:29) Yeah, you bet. How can we help today? Speaker 5 (10:31) Yes, I'm on my first job here out of college, and I just got a commission check today on my account for $12,000 for my first job here. Good for you. Thank you. I have about $34,000 in student loans that I'm trying to pay off by October of 2028. I have about $12,000 in savings as well, and I'm just curious how to attack these loans with that commission check. I want to put all of it towards my loans here. I've got a mix of the good Sally Mae ones and then government loans as well. Speaker 2 (10:59) Well, gosh. Number one, congratulations on the commission. That's really, really great. You got the $12,000 saved. If I were in your shoes, I would walk the baby steps, which is the plan that we teach. And the first three steps are the ones that I would focus on if I were in your shoes. The first one is we really just need $1,000 saved while we have the debt around. So let's drop the $12,000 saved down to $1,000 and put the remaining $11,000 on the student loan. And then let's take whatever you don't need from the commission check. So once your bills are paid and everything is cool with your budget, whatever margin is left over, let's also throw that at the $34,000 student loan. And my guess is you're going to be done with this well before October of 28, unless there's something that we're missing. Like, are you still needing to pay for, are you still in school doing tuition? Is there anything else that's like eating up this 12,000 in commission that you're going to be earning? Speaker 5 (11:55) No, I don't believe so. I have a base salary as well. That totals out to about like $40,000 after taxes. And I've been using that to pay like my monthly rent and all that kind of thing, groceries, et cetera. So I'm pretty set there. And for this commission check, yeah, I can pretty much go towards all those loans. There's like four of them that are government that are pretty low percentage interest rates and that two that are private that are like 11.5%, pretty high. Speaker 5 (12:20) So I was thinking about putting all of it down towards the highest interest rate ones, but I've also seen advice to just attack the small ones and get those out of the way too. Speaker 3 (12:28) Yeah, it's more efficient long-term to actually, which is weird because it goes against math, but to pay off the smallest debt first. So if you list out all six, what would be your smallest? I'm just curious. Smallest would Speaker 5 (12:41) be about $2,200. Speaker 3 (12:44) Okay. And then what's the next one? Speaker 5 (12:47) Yeah, $3,200. And the next one is about $3,500. Speaker 3 (12:51) And Speaker 5 (12:52) then $5,000. And there's two of the private ones that are $8,000 and $11,000. Speaker 3 (12:57) Okay, so what's great is you could knock three out by when you get your commission check. Because you'll get that, you have $12,000 saved. So just knock the three little ones off. You may have some going towards that $5,000 and then start working down from there. So yeah, it is actually... more efficient just to get those out of the way. Because all those payments, those three payments now are freed up to then snowball on top of that 5,000. So you'll have even more momentum going in. Speaker 5 (13:25) Okay, I love it. And then just drop down the savings amount too as low as I can get it and just attack it Speaker 1 (13:30) with the rest of that as well. Speaker 3 (13:30) Exactly. Yep, that's it. Speaker 1 (13:32) You're going to be out in no time. Yeah, well Speaker 3 (13:34) done. Cool. Well done. Speaker 1 (13:35) Yeah, I appreciate it. No, thank you. Yeah, it's tough to make that decision, but I guess I got to go for it. I Speaker 3 (13:40) know. It kind of, it's one of those like, that is part of paying off this debt because you get a $12,000 commission and you've worked hard for it and then you're like. I feel like I got to go. I got to work on my mistakes. For sure. I got to go in the past and pay it off to enjoy your future. But the great thing is you'll look up. I promise you, Caleb. Gosh, in 12 months and you're going to be completely debt free. You'll have a fully funded emergency fund and you start getting those checks after being a year and commission rolls too. More and more. Oh my gosh. And there's going to be no payments and you literally have your whole income to give and invest and keep moving through. That's awesome. Speaker 2 (14:16) Yeah. And two, highlighting. I mean, there's that side of what you just said, Rachel, of not being able to live in your income because of the mistakes. But then there's the, he's got to turn around and drain the $12,000 of savings. And a lot of people feel a connection to that. That's right. Yes. And it Speaker 3 (14:31) makes Speaker 2 (14:31) you feel Speaker 3 (14:32) like you're going backwards. You know what I mean? In one sense of the word. But man, when you don't have those payments, because we say it all the time, but it's true, your largest wealth building tool is your income. And when your income's all yours and it's not going out to six different loans every month, it's amazing what happens when you actually start earning interest and you start investing that money instead of paying. student loan companies, you know, Sally Mae and the government and paying interest on those. And Speaker 2 (14:58) I also think of it, you know, when you've got this cushion of savings, he's got 12,000. We talked to people, gosh, with even more 20 or 30,000, and we're asking them to drain it down. It's kind of like if you've ever lost weight. Yes. And after the fact, you're like, gosh, I didn't realize like how I felt when I had this on me. But now when I lose the weight of the debt, I feel so much better. So much. And then like. It's 10 pounds. If you go pick up a 10 pound weight, you're like, oh my God, this is so heavy. I can't believe this was on my body. Yes. Carrying it. And so it really is. We've never had people take their money, pay off their debt and then go, gosh, I wish I had never done that. That's right. And so it's worth it every time. Let's go to Elizabeth who's in Scranton, Pennsylvania. What's going on, Elizabeth? Speaker 7 (15:43) Hi. Yeah. So my husband and I are just trying to figure out. It seems like we can never quite make it to the next paycheck. I do budgeting. I handle all of our finances, so I do all the budgeting. It seems like it just never... I don't know what we're doing wrong. Speaker 3 (16:01) Okay. How much are you guys bringing in? How much hits your account every month, income-wise? Every month is about $8,000. $8,000. How much are your expenses? Speaker 7 (16:14) Okay, so this is part of the problem here. The expenses, not including like food, our food budget, which I know that should be top of the list, but not including that, our regular basic expenses are about $7,069. What Speaker 3 (16:27) are y'all paying? What's your mortgage? Speaker 7 (16:31) Mortgage is $550. I mean, it's like everything. It's just everything is like skyrocketing. Mortgage is $550 a month, which is nothing, I know. Oh, Speaker 3 (16:38) yeah, that's great. Okay. Speaker 7 (16:40) Yeah, we got in with 3.4 % interest, so we're great with that. Yeah, that's great. Okay. Yeah, and then there's just all the other basic living things like electric insurance. Do Speaker 2 (16:48) you have Speaker 7 (16:48) daycare? Speaker 2 (16:49) Do you Speaker 3 (16:50) have kids in daycare? Speaker 7 (16:51) No, I don't work. I'm a stay-at-home mom. Well, there's got to be something. There's $6 Speaker 3 (16:56) ,500 going. Speaker 7 (16:59) Yeah, I mean, there's a lot. There's like our house and car. My husband is technically considered self-employed. So we have liability insurance, house insurance, car insurance on three cars. That's $660 a month. Is the third car Speaker 3 (17:12) part of his business? No, it's my son's car. My oldest son who's in college. So what's the total Speaker 2 (17:18) of car insurance and gas? What is that total? Speaker 1 (17:25) On Speaker 7 (17:26) all three. Speaker 7 (17:28) So I have, it's all like together on the policy. Speaker 2 (17:32) What's the total? Speaker 7 (17:33) That's $660 a month, not including the gas. The gas I put Speaker 2 (17:37) in Speaker 7 (17:37) our, you know, kind of a food. So again, we're at like Speaker 2 (17:39) $1,100 or $1,200. We've still got thousands of dollars to account for. And you said that's not even including food. Usually food is one of the bigger ones. So there's got to be something in here that's, what I'm just going to say, out of the usual or sloppiness. Yeah, Speaker 3 (17:54) I'm trying to figure out, are you guys just... spending or we're really not i mean we're not big Speaker 7 (17:59) spenders so we do we we tithe so that's six hundred dollars a month um our heat we put aside three hundred dollars a month taxes for the house our houses our taxes are not escrowed at six hundred dollars a month um our electric bill is five hundred dollars a month life insurance two hundred twenty a month um our garbage the life insurance uh-huh um one of the policies is a Yes, they are term policies. One of them is a return of premium policy. So that's why it's a little higher, I think. Speaker 2 (18:30) Interesting. Okay. I mean, so everything is kind of like $500, $600, and there's no debt? Do you guys have debt payments? Speaker 7 (18:37) We do have. We have two credit cards. One has just over $2,000. One has about $1,500. And then we have a car loan that's at $1,900. Speaker 2 (18:46) $1,900? Oh, no, I'm sorry, $19,000. $19,000. What do you pay a month for that? Speaker 7 (18:52) Uh, the car is, um, 384 is the minimum. It's the auto pay the, um, $1,400 credit card. I'm trying to pay 800 a month on that just to get it. So it sounds Speaker 2 (19:04) like there's a lot of ankle biters. What I would do, do you guys have every dollar? Speaker 2 (19:09) Yes. What I would do tonight, I would go through every dollar and I would just look at everything and say, is this a necessity? Do we need this? And do we need it to this extent? Like if it's something you're paying $600 on, do we need to be spending $600 on this activity? Because at $8,000 a month, I have to believe in your mortgage is such a small percentage. There's no one in daycare. Those are the big ticket items. If there's insurance. That's probably the biggest one if you guys are self-employed, but again for you that would be taking the place of something like daycare realistically So I think there's just a lot of items that you can scale back and find some margin You need to be a detective and figure out what the problem is, but go in there knowing that there's a solution Don't tell yourself. There's nothing you can cut Speaker 8 (20:08) Most people spend years changing their money habits, but never think twice about how their bank probably works against their values with nuisance fees and endless debt products. If you're being weird by sticking to the baby steps, you deserve a bank that helps with that. That's why Ramsey partnered with Fairwinds Credit Union. They built the smart bundle specifically for Ramsey listeners, not for everybody else. And it includes up to 10 high-yield savings accounts so you can set up different funds for different needs and goals. 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All right, we've got. And Cordell, who's in Little Rock, Arkansas, up next. Hi, Cordell. How can Rachel and I help you today? Speaker 5 (22:09) Hi, guys. Thanks for taking the call. You Speaker 2 (22:12) bet. What's up? Speaker 5 (22:13) So a little back history. Back in 21, I saw the show, and me and my wife were married in 21, and had debts, kind of just caught fire. I was like, well, I can be a millionaire by the time I'm 50. So I had a very nice truck at the time, sold it, got $30,000 cash off it, paid her vehicle off. She had co-signed for someone else's vehicle before. Speaker 5 (22:40) paid that off, paid her credit card off, cut it up in front of her, which was a heartbreaking thing, but we both decided to do it. Went that week, paid off our cell phone. Wow. Just to eliminate every debt we could. That Speaker 3 (22:54) was in 21? Speaker 5 (22:55) Yes, ma'am. Okay. And this is a truck that we don't have kids yet, but I was like, one day I'll give it to him. Oh, wow. Speaker 4 (23:02) It just Speaker 5 (23:02) meant a lot to me. So we've been budgeting, going through. And our second year of marriage, she wanted to go to nursing school, go back. And we paid as we went, got her through that. She's a registered nurse now. And then she, her car went kaput. And as a gift for graduating, passing her NCLEX, everything she needed to do, she wanted a Denali, which probably wasn't the smartest idea. Because Speaker 2 (23:38) you didn't pay cash? Speaker 5 (23:40) Did not pay cash. I want to celebrate getting Speaker 3 (23:44) possibly a $90,000 job with a $90 Speaker 2 (23:47) ,000 car. Can you walk me through, like, Rachel, can you walk Rachel and I through that, Cordell? Because you're sitting here telling me what a struggle it was and what a sacrifice it was for you to sell that truck, to pay off all that debt. How in the world did you get to there, from there to like, yeah, like 80 or 90 on a Denali feels right? Speaker 5 (24:08) So really, I think I just gave in to her and I had about 20 grand in cash sitting there. And I was like, this is your dream car. She's going to be making good money. I make pretty good money. We'll have no problem paying it. And then, you know, we're already paying a thousand extra on our mortgage a month. We can afford this. Speaker 2 (24:30) Okay, so you got it. What did you end up spending legitimately? Speaker 5 (24:35) Uh, $68,040 on it right now. Okay, so you owe $40,000. Yes, ma'am. What Speaker 2 (24:42) else? Speaker 5 (24:44) So the only other thing I have is my mortgage. Okay. And right now I owe $120,000 on it. My dilemma is... We've worked really hard at saving money. And right now I have $6,400 in my checking. I put $10,000 in my emergency fund. I just put $10,000 in a CD. I can pull it out at any time, but just so we don't touch it. And then I've really been wanting to get a truck. And so I went on the road this year from April to August. I saved about $75,000. Speaker 2 (25:17) Okay. Speaker 5 (25:17) And now I'm at the dilemma. Do I buy my truck? Where's her money? Speaker 3 (25:23) You just gave me all your numbers. What is she making as a nurse? Speaker 5 (25:27) So she makes about $75,000 a year as a nurse before taxes, and I make $110,000 before taxes. Speaker 2 (25:34) So $185,000 a year combined. And I'm not trying to poke holes in what you're doing. I'm just saying you saved up $75,000 for a car, but there's only $10,000 in the emergency fund? Speaker 5 (25:50) Yes, ma'am. So this year, the 75, that was an extra. That's added on to my annual. That's just like a bonus. I did that in five months. I had to travel around the U.S. to do that work. Speaker 2 (26:02) No, and I commend you for saving up the money. I'm just saying, don't you think it's strange that you're earmarking more for this truck versus stacking up a proper emergency fund? What kind of truck do you want? Speaker 5 (26:16) It's a Denali Ultimate. Speaker 2 (26:20) I like your cars. Gosh, I mean, Cordell. It's not Speaker 3 (26:24) bad. Having a nice car is not bad. It's not, but I'm struggling with the mindset. Yes, your priorities are kind of all out of whack a little bit. Speaker 5 (26:33) And see, I guess that's why my wife is encouraging me. She's like, I know you haven't had a truck in four years, which I have a truck. Oh, poor Cordell. Speaker 3 (26:41) hasn't had a truck in four years. I'm so sorry. I'm just kidding. If George was here, he'd be a lot meaner. Truck guys. But wait a sec. Speaker 2 (26:54) Tell us the real problem. First off, it was like, man, we owe $40,000 on my wife's Denali. Now we're over here. You're trying to do yours in cash, it sounds like, which is fine. But don't you want to get out of the current debt first? Speaker 5 (27:10) Absolutely. So when I say I was on fire about it to get out of debt, I had to sit it down, put the numbers in front of her to see it. And I was like, hey, if we pay an extra grant on our mortgage every month, we'll save $70,000 Speaker 1 (27:25) at Speaker 5 (27:26) the end of interest and this and that. And so I guess I feel she's encouraging me to get my truck. I feel guilt. Well, Speaker 3 (27:36) hey, can I ask this? Is it a brand new truck? Is it going to cost you $75,000? Speaker 5 (27:42) They're about $9,000. I knew it. Okay, so listen. Speaker 3 (27:45) Y'all have too much car. You make $185,000. These two cars combined are going to be about what you make a year. Yeah. So you guys can't. You have Champagne Taste and Beer Pocketbook. And I hate Speaker 1 (27:59) to Speaker 3 (27:59) say Beer Pocketbook with $168,000 a year because it's good income. But y'all, you can't afford this. This is out of. I'll be honest. This is classic. middle-class America right here. This is it, though. For real. For real. Is that you want the nice truck, the brand-new thing, and you make good money, but you would rather have a depreciating asset going down in value because it feels good than actually prioritizing your financial life, which would look like getting out of debt, having cash saved in the bank, investing for your retirement. And then what we have left, we can figure out what to do. And we're going to buy a used car because you guys are not net worth millionaires. And so you have to look at these cars that the function is, it's not your identity. It's not who you are. It is to get you to point A to point B. And if you're making a ton of money and you can afford that, that's great. We're not mad at it. But it has to be in a reasonable sense. And you guys are just out of reason. Speaker 2 (29:07) Well, and Cordell, I'm looking at this going, I just want it to be worth your time because you sat and painted a picture that I felt, which is, man, you guys really sacrificed in 2021 to win. Like you cut deep in order to do that. And if you go forward with this, you're taking all of the air out of that. Like you're taking all of the meaning out of that sacrifice. And you're going back to square one. And so all that sacrifice will have been meaningless because now we're just back in debt again. And I said it yesterday on the show, and I'll say it again. When you choose this path, the very first step that you have to take before you even start the baby steps is you have to draw that line in the sand and say, I'm doing this because I'm not a person who borrows money anymore. I'm not a person who does that. And so you guys stepped over your own line when you did her car. And now you're stepping over another principle of the plan that you say you want to work when you do what Rachel said. And it's like you're buying more car basically than your income can afford. So I'm more in the I'm trying to protect you and your wife because you guys have worked so hard. And I think I don't know. But what I'm sensing is like in our city, in our town, we're like killing it. And we got these cars and there's like. a facade that's attached to this. And I think that you guys are starting to play into that. And I think you have to be really careful and you're feeling like I have a good job. She has a good job. I, we deserve to have this. And I just want to remind you that I actually think that you deserve a life of peace with no payments. I think that you deserve to have the comfort and security of a fully funded emergency fund. I think you deserve the feeling of actually working hard and it meaning something at the end of the day, not just shiny vehicles. And not Speaker 3 (30:57) letting your Speaker 2 (30:57) emotions drive you. Speaker 3 (30:58) I mean, you know, children do what feels good. Man. Adults devise a plan and follow it. And so following a smart financial plan is going to help you long-term more than a Denali will. Talk that talk. 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