Arthur Baker Part 2

The Questlove Show

Arthur Baker returns to discuss his pivotal role in shaping the 1980s dance and electronic music landscape. The conversation traverses the t

Key takeaways

• Arthur Baker describes using the Synclavier to produce Hall & Oates' 'Out of Touch'.
• The transition from vinyl to digital platforms like Serato changed how DJs manage their musical libraries.

Main topics

• 80s Dance Music Production
• DJ Culture and Technology

Notable quotes

I'm the anti-tech tech guy.

Conclusion

A profound look at the intersection of technological innovation and cu

Transcript preview

Speaker 7 (0:00) This is Speaker 2 (0:00) an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Hi, Speaker 4 (0:05) this is Kylie Brakeman. Angela Geritana. Speaker 7 (0:07) Jeremy Colhane. Patrick McDonald. Speaker 4 (0:09) And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists podcast. The Speaker 7 (0:13) improvised character comedy podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. And Speaker 3 (0:21) we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. He gets right up next to the microphone. Speaker 4 (0:29) I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. Speaker 3 (0:32) You've never seen Italy so quiet Speaker 7 (0:34) as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Speaker 3 (0:37) Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 6 (0:45) I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The true crime comedy podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on an amazing guest. Speaker 7 (0:57) Ooh, I scammed him. What? I could talk to you for an hour. Speaker 6 (1:00) You're a generational yapper, like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 8 (1:15) Lisa, tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Iwano. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa DiGiulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of New Shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 2 (1:46) The Questlove Show is a production of iHeartRadio. Speaker 2 (2:00) You know, whenever I abruptly stop the show and I'm like, oh man, I gotta come back in the future for part two. And you, the listener, are always like, they're never coming back. Well, guess what? It's happened, ladies and gentlemen. This is part two of our interview with pioneer Arthur Baker. I will say that I believe when we last left, well, there's so much we left off. We Speaker 1 (2:26) didn't make it past 83. Right. We didn't even start with Candy Girl or anything. It's Speaker 2 (2:31) 2026 Speaker 1 (2:31) now. Speaker 2 (2:31) But wait, I want you to finish your thing because we were kind of in the middle. You were talking about you're still DJing in Miami. Speaker 1 (2:37) I'm DJing last night carrying records on the plane, Amer. You would not. How Speaker 2 (2:42) would you Speaker 1 (2:42) do that to yourself, man? Well, if you want to DJ in somewhat cool places, they're all vinyl now. See? They are. Here's the thing. I mean, the Speaker 2 (2:52) world knows my affinity for. collecting wax and whatever yeah Speaker 1 (2:58) sure Speaker 2 (2:59) it's on record that i have a couple hundred thousand records however now i feel like a fraud because i don't think i've ever subscribed to the theory that yes i do believe that at home the frequency of music from vinyl is just way better however for nightclub life and i'm certain that let's give an example def jam definitely wasn't helping matters much by pressing public enemies fear of a black planet on single vinyl you know the grooves were like this small yeah so you know even back then no one did double albums for a single album Right. Which is what they should have been. Exactly. So my thing was that I, a lot of times, because I wanted to spin album cuts, I just hated the whole readjusting my EQ to keep the humming out and all that stuff. And so I guess once I started spinning digitally, with Serato at least, all my prayers were answered sonically. Yeah. But now that there's this movement. of cats returning to 45s and whatnot. It started with the 45 movement, and I get where I believe the genesis of it came from, which was basically to separate the music lovers from the button pushers. But there's no way you're going to tell me it's a Speaker 1 (4:25) better sonic experience. But also owning those records that other people don't have. So your records now are your... Your weapon now. And, you know, anyone could have it digitally. But now cats are pressing up 45s as Speaker 2 (4:37) if. Yeah. You know, and I blame that on the post-Bismarck-y Mardi Gras. Right. I hear you. That whole thing. But for you, like, you still find pleasure in carrying records? No, of Speaker 1 (4:51) course not. Come on. When I'm doing it in Miami, it's fine. I drive up in my car. I wheel them into the club. Going on a plane with two boxes of records like I did and not wanting to check them in, obviously, because you know they're going to get stolen. I don't know how many people lost their records. Paul Okenfall lost all his records going to Brazil and he had to make a call out to anyone out there to get his set. And this is like 25 years ago. I Speaker 2 (5:20) can't even imagine. Speaker 1 (5:20) I do play different stuff, though. I totally play different stuff because I play more for the heads, for sure. You Speaker 2 (5:27) also Speaker 1 (5:27) have to commit. And Speaker 2 (5:28) that's Speaker 1 (5:28) the Speaker 2 (5:28) thing that worries me now. Like right now I'm in a place where this computer has eight terabytes of music in it. Speaker 2 (5:37) Which, you know, it's almost like where I am now where I don't know what audience I'm going to meet. Right. Now, normally I know at least four, and I will say our era. I mean, I've been DJing since 83, 84, like as a youngin'. But I know the general rule is house rules. The DJ is the tastemaker. Yeah, Speaker 1 (6:02) there's a selector. They're going to pick their. But Speaker 2 (6:04) I think now, at least past 97, 98, certainly the customer is always right thing. Now, I will say that 95 % of the time, I will ignore requests or whatever. However. If it ain't going right or if it's a little slow, you might. Right. But at least with this, I have the insurance of. I can either play the Fat Boys or Taylor Swift. Yeah, Speaker 1 (6:28) yeah. Speaker 2 (6:29) But when you pick those records. No, you're screwed. You're screwed. Speaker 1 (6:32) And you have to, like, select for, like, anything that could come up. So, you know, I got my LCD sound system. If it looks like there's some old punks, you know, old electro punks. And I got a lot of jazz. And I get my, you know, I get my own records that I produce. So I got all the electro stuff. So I can always, if all else fails, I go to, like. Playing a rock, playing your own risk, you know, confusion, new order. I'll play an electro set. Are Speaker 2 (6:58) they aware that Arthur Baker is spinning? Or you're just like the cool guy in the club? No, the old Speaker 1 (7:03) guy in the club. Occasionally they do. Like at Dante's in Miami, you know, people come out to see me DJ. That's it. But, you know, like at New Blue now, they're trying to get that crowd, but it didn't happen yet. But occasionally, like if I'm playing at a club. They don't know who the hell I am. At a vinyl bar, they do. That's the difference. When you're playing vinyl, people, it's more of a thing to come to hear me. When I'm playing at a place in Ibiza or wherever, which I don't do often, but when I do, they don't. Speaker 2 (7:34) There's a vinyl bar in New York City that I'm in love with in which it's called All Blues, and they actually treat their records like concert here. They'll announce 8 p.m. tonight, limited seating only. Miles Davis live at the Plug Nickel. Right. Speaker 1 (7:52) And Speaker 2 (7:52) literally, we walk in there. Speaker 1 (7:54) Yeah. Speaker 2 (7:54) It's like a movie theater. We'll sit. Wow. And you must be silent. You can't silent talk or anything. No phones. Yeah. They'll have food and drink there for you. And a Speaker 1 (8:04) great sound system. Speaker 2 (8:05) Yeah. And it's done on top end. You know, you sit there and you listen to a jazz concert. Yeah. They have like live record night on one particular night where you'll Speaker 1 (8:17) sit. Speaker 2 (8:17) They have Speaker 1 (8:17) all those. Those sort of bootlegs of Miles all over the world with his lost quintet. Well, Speaker 2 (8:23) each night is a different theme. Like one night it's all about romance. It's all slow music. So it's a great date night spot. But for the most part, they will play, I think the first time I went there, Commodore's Live from 77 was the thing. Like they'll do all live vinyl. They pick the music you go to, yeah. They pick the music and you sit and listen. It's not like being at a bar and dancing or whatever. So there's no pressure to make people dance. But, oh, God, if you're doing this, then I don't want to return to vinyl, man. You don't have to do Speaker 1 (8:55) it, man. I don't want to return to vinyl. I would stay with that. I would stay no vinyl. Bambaataa used to have a guy with – he had three people carrying like eight crates. He traveled with eight crates. Oh, you're Speaker 2 (9:07) supposed to have your boys with you. Yeah. I'm definitely not doing that. Okay, so one day I plan on interviewing Trevor Horn and picking his brain. But for right now, I mean, yes, I know that he kind of holds the technical crown as being the first person to sample a break. And use it because he had access to what the Sinclair. Yeah. Okay. So from what I've heard about this machine is that, you know, when it came out, it was this very unattainable, only select few privilege that had the money to afford it. I E Herbie, Stevie Prince, Trevor himself had access to it. Would studios happen to have, like when you first saw us in Clavier, it got. used to it or working with it like when did you first come Speaker 1 (10:00) across it okay to just the fairlight we had one intergalactic before for planet rock we use that for the orchestra hit okay so Speaker 2 (10:09) the fairlight was invented back in 81 yeah Speaker 1 (10:11) okay and that was a preset they had samples you couldn't really sample but it okay right synclavier i worked with the synclavier with hollow notes on big bamboo Out of touch? Out of touch. But the whole album, we were sampling. We went in with Jimmy Braylour, who was a drummer, but was also getting into the sampling. We had a sample guy from Sinclair come in. We were at Electric Lady Studios. We brought Sinclair in. And then Hall & Oates actually bought one. How much were they? I don't know, $100,000. Oh, it was over $10,000? Oh, it was way over $10,000. You'd have to check, but it was definitely way over $10,000. How big was it? It was like this, you know. But my point is we bought one. They left it in my studio, and we just kept plants on it. It was like Daryl said. It was like the most expensive plant holder. We didn't end up using it. You buy an exercise bike for your crib and it becomes a... When we got it, it was like the novelty of sampling vocals and making drum beats. We were using it as a human beatbox holder. We were sampling. We'd go, ah, boom, ah, and we'd do that. And there's a few songs that... So Speaker 2 (11:26) is that the reason why... I mean, I've had Bing Bam Boom, but I know the Outta Touch video. Speaker 5 (11:32) Yeah. Speaker 2 (11:33) Had those sort of Latin rascally, that's Speaker 1 (11:37) all you. That's all Speaker 2 (11:38) you were. Yeah. Speaker 1 (11:38) I was hired to be the arranger. I didn't get a production credit because I already had a Claremont and Hall and Oates and T-Bone Walk. They were all producers. So Mottola was managing me at the time. And basically he said, listen, Speaker 2 (11:53) you Speaker 1 (11:53) know, pay me like 50 grand to be the arranger and do all my, I did sort of the remix stuff. for the album. So a lot of the tracks. And Adult Education. No, that wasn't on there. Method of Modern Love. Okay, cool. So that was my beat and that was my edits and stuff. But luckily, Daryl and I one night went in and we wrote a track. And the intro of Out of Touch, that sort of metal thing with Chichabala, I got half the writing and publishing on it. So basically, I had a song on the album. So actually, instead of having a point on the album, I had publishing, which at least I got paid. But technically, we messed around with it. And Mickey Curry, who was the drummer in the band, he was not happy. Speaker 2 (12:35) Yeah, I was going to say, how do you feel? Speaker 1 (12:37) No, he was the least happy of anyone. We sampled his drums. Claremont had made it all sound amazing, obviously. But that was a moment because that was probably the first record that used that technology. And we did use it, but it was definitely a marriage of both, of the samples and of Mickey's live playing, if you listen. Okay, Speaker 2 (12:59) so I knew of Bob and Malcolm. The Stevie Wonder guys. Yeah, doing stuff with Stevie Wonder and Isla. Isley Brothers. Yeah, yeah. They explained to me that synthesizers, like the early age of computers in which a computer was a room and now it's inside this one box. So was the Sinclair supposed to be like, now you can make your Stevie Wonder dreams come Speaker 1 (13:22) true in this one? I don't know if it was sold that way. I just think it was sold as this thing where you could actually now sample and program. And you could. How long did it Speaker 2 (13:33) take you to learn, like go through the writer's manual and figure out what it was? I'm Speaker 1 (13:37) the wrong guy. I was not a tech. I'm the anti-tech tech guy. We had the guy, and I forget his name, from Sinclair. Okay, so somebody would come in. And he came in, and he did it all for us. I mean, we told him what we wanted. I mean, with the 808, I programmed the 808. But this was way above my pay grade. There was no way I was going to sit and do it. I mean, we would. Let's sample that. Let's sample that. You know, it was more of a gimmick, I thought. But, I mean, Trevor Horn made amazing records using it. I didn't do that. Now, at any point when you Speaker 2 (14:10) are kind of first out the gate to this new technology, at any point did it ever occur to you like, oh, I can make new records out of old records, i.e., what would happen if I... an entire four bar this thing and looped it or whatever? Or was it just from the... Speaker 1 (14:30) I'm trying to think. I mean, we were already sampling with the emulator, you know, pre... But you were sampling sounds. But I mean, in terms of like a loop. The loop thing did not come into my mind until maybe 80... 2005, I think. Okay. When it became more easier, accessible to loop stuff, you know? Back then, with the St. Clavier, no, I didn't. I'll be honest. I didn't think of it. Even when I did Put the Needle to the Record, that track, we weren't even looping then. We had Gayle Sky King, the late Gayle Sky King. She rode the record and, you know, we did the same type of thing, but she rode the record and we'd stop when it would go out of time and we'd... Keep writing the record in. Really? Yeah. And Speaker 2 (15:13) just Speaker 1 (15:13) punch Speaker 2 (15:13) in? Speaker 1 (15:13) And punch in, yeah. For what song? Put the needle to the record, Criminal Element Orchestra. Put Speaker 2 (15:18) the Speaker 1 (15:18) needle to the record and the drum beats go like this. Really? Yeah, and we did it with that. And Keith LeBlanc was playing live drums, so she had to a click, but she had to ride the bass line from that Motown classic disco break record in. Really? Yeah. Okay. And then after that, we got looping in 86, I think. And I made a Criminal Almanacus record, and I was looping Prince beats. So that was then. Speaker 2 (15:47) Okay. There's an EP of it. There's six versions of the song on it. But from soup to nuts, can you tell me the story or the chaos of how you managed to organize the James Brown Bambata sessions for— I didn't do that. No way! Speaker 1 (16:08) Nope. That's got to be you. Nope. It was meant to be me, but it wasn't me. But Speaker 2 (16:14) it's your drum patches. Well, Speaker 1 (16:16) they did it all, man. No, that was Tommy Boy. I think Tom and his wife at the time did it. Really? Yeah. I did not do it. I Speaker 2 (16:24) would have put my entire. Well, Speaker 1 (16:27) I'm glad you didn't. How Speaker 2 (16:28) did you feel about it when you heard it? Speaker 1 (16:29) Well, what I felt even worse about was I had signed James Brown before Tommy Boy. I signed him to Streetwise. I have the contract, and we promised him some money, and then my partners messed up with the payment time. And I have the contract, which said, well, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He didn't send the check. Boom. So I have the proof, but yeah. Speaker 2 (16:56) What would you have imagined that you would have done with James Brown on Streetwise Records? Speaker 1 (17:01) Probably. Very similar to what the thing he did with Bambada, really. You know, I mean, it's just. Speaker 2 (17:09) Oh, my God. Yeah, Speaker 1 (17:10) yeah. It's okay. This Speaker 2 (17:13) is one of those Mandela Effect moments where I swear to God, that was one of Speaker 1 (17:17) your... Influenced by our records, for sure. But I didn't... Listen, I didn't care. I said to Tom, we went up to hear New Edition. I brought Candy Girl up to the Bronx River. Right. Bambada plays Everyone Goes Wild. It was the night that Force MDs, but they were called the Force MCs. Right. And me and Tom both hear them and I go... They're really good. And, you know, I said, but Tom, you can have them because I have New Edition. So I probably should have signed them too. And then when New Edition left the... So Speaker 2 (17:50) as you were taking the Candy Girl Wax to test it in the Bronx. Yeah. Jazzy Jay played it, actually. Speaker 1 (17:55) That's where you saw... Force MDs. Speaker 4 (18:04) Hi, this is Kylie Brakeman, Angela Geritana, Speaker 7 (18:07) Jeremy Colhane, Patrick McDonald, and Speaker 4 (18:08) we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists podcast, the Speaker 7 (18:12) improvised character comedy podcast, where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. What I try to do is faux journal. I don't know. Have you guys heard of faux journaling? Yeah, it's reading. It's called reading. So you're so we don't like to use that word anymore. OK. A panel of New Yorker cartoonists. Have you guys done Terry Gross' Peloton class yet? No! Speaker 3 (18:36) I've been dying to. I'm Speaker 7 (18:38) so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audra McDonald at the Wonderland Bookstore on 14th. Speaker 3 (18:46) That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland Bookstore yesterday and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Dark Thirty. No way. Speaker 4 (18:52) of the last bookstore though. Kim Cattrall is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday. Speaker 7 (18:58) A panel of Eurovision participants. Speaker 3 (19:01) And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. Speaker 7 (19:06) He gets right up next to the microphone. Speaker 4 (19:08) I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. Speaker 7 (19:12) You've never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Speaker 4 (19:17) Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 6 (19:24) I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The true crime comedy podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Debris, Lamorne Morris, and Nicole Byer. Speaker 7 (19:40) Ooh, I scammed them. What? Speaker 6 (19:42) I could talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper, like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And the scams run the gamut. I'm talking about scams from the 1800s all the way up. to today. I also warn you and keep you safe against scammers. Call your grandparents. Tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you. And I'm also here to laugh with you. So if you like fun, if you like comedy, and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 8 (20:46) I'm not going to get anywhere. I'm fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today. Now in my 30s, being the founder of New Shoes, good taste is my business. And I've always got something to say. If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Liar. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't really care. Speaker 2 (21:39) When you complete a record and you give it to, who are your three go-to guys? Mark Kamens. Okay. Where did he DJ? Speaker 1 (21:47) Danceteria. Okay. He was the guy who discovered Madonna. He produced everybody. Okay. Jelly Bean. Okay. Where did he mostly spend? Just the Funhouse. Okay. So I had Danceteria, Funhouse, and Paradise Garage, Larry Levin. Okay. So those were the three, and I would be able to get them. And Speaker 2 (22:06) they would blindly Speaker 1 (22:06) trust you? Yeah. Speaker 5 (22:07) Well, Speaker 1 (22:08) they Speaker 5 (22:08) wouldn't like. Speaker 1 (22:09) not listen to it. They wouldn't just drop a needle on it. They were like, yeah, and then they'd play it. But not only that, Jellybean would play the reel-to-reel, which was like sort of a commitment. He had a reel-to-reel. So you Speaker 2 (22:21) could take a half Speaker 1 (22:22) inch? Yeah, I would bring a, no, it was a quarter inch tape. In the confusion video where I bring him the tape, that's reel. That's what we used to do. I'd bring him the tape of New Order Confusion, hand it to him. He could really Speaker 2 (22:35) play Speaker 5 (22:35) a reel Speaker 2 (22:35) in the Speaker 5 (22:36) club. Speaker 2 (22:36) Yeah, yeah. Speaker 5 (22:37) And the quality was Speaker 2 (22:38) - Speaker 5 (22:38) Larry Speaker 2 (22:38) had one Speaker 5 (22:38) too. Yeah, the quality was fine. They were right from the studio. Speaker 2 (22:43) Would they just let the song fade out? No, Speaker 5 (22:44) they were like, they knew what they were doing. You could spin a reel? Yeah. Jelly Bean did. Wow, okay. I don't know if Larry did. I mean, Mark would play cassettes. He didn't have a reel at Speaker 1 (22:57) Danceteria, but he would play a cassette. Hiss and everything. Out of touch. I brought his first play out of touch on a cassette. He played it. Speaker 2 (23:05) Is it like when you finalize a mix before you master it, you want to see how it works or what should I do? No, Speaker 1 (23:09) this is when Speaker 2 (23:09) I was Speaker 1 (23:09) in the middle of the mix. I didn't know if it was done. My studio was on 37th. All the clubs were like 12 blocks away. You would play rough cuts. We'd play rough mixes and then we would like, it's the arrangement. It was more for arrangement when I do the drops because back then no one did these drops like. We'd take the drums out and people would go, you can't do that. But obviously that's what made the mixes. We'd drop out the drums and then the bass. So basically I'd see how the crowd would react. If it reacted the way I thought it would, I'd keep the arrangement. But sonically you'd hear, is there enough kick? And we had the key to the funhouse. So we would go down, Jelly Bean did, we'd go down there. with it empty, which wouldn't really be great for judging sound. And test it. Yeah, but we could test it. So, yeah, Jelly Bean wouldn't play everybody's record. We were working on records together. Number Speaker 2 (24:01) one, what was the best Speaker 1 (24:04) year for Speaker 2 (24:06) New York City club life? Speaker 1 (24:08) I would say 82 or 83. For me, for my world. Studio 54 was not my world. I know that. So I want to know that post-period. That was Jive. I mean, the thing was, you could... You could do those three clubs that I mentioned, which is Danceteria, Funhouse, Paradise Garage. You could do all three in one night. And to me, those are three of the best clubs ever. And you could go, you could travel amongst those. Because Larry was playing until, you know, daybreak. And Danceteria was like, you could go early. They had food. They had a bunch of floors. And there was a reggae floor. You know, I mean. They Speaker 2 (24:46) had Speaker 1 (24:46) food? They had food. I Speaker 2 (24:47) had Speaker 1 (24:47) some food, you know? Speaker 2 (24:49) Like, I hear the one thing, oh, they have food there. But that's Speaker 1 (24:52) the Speaker 2 (24:52) thing. I want to know soup to nuts. All right, number one, could you get in? I mean, the lore of Studio 54 is you can't get in. Speaker 1 (25:00) You had to look right. Speaker 2 (25:01) Right. So for these three clubs, for Paradise Garage, whatever, is it still the whole? Well, Paradise Speaker 1 (25:07) Garage was a members club. How do you become a member? became a member. You know, you were a member. Speaker 2 (25:14) You got to know a guy that knows a guy that knows a guy. Yeah, Speaker 1 (25:16) you remember. I mean, you could be industry Speaker 5 (25:19) like me, and I'd just know the person at the door. You would get love. Yeah, Speaker 2 (25:24) I Speaker 5 (25:24) could get any. But a Bridge and Speaker 2 (25:26) Tunnel person. Speaker 5 (25:27) No. They still had to stand in line. Bridge and Speaker 1 (25:29) Tunnel didn't go to Paradise Garage. Paradise Speaker 5 (25:32) Garage was gay, black, Puerto Rican. Right. It was that. And it was really. Okay, Speaker 2 (25:39) so where are Speaker 5 (25:39) the Speaker 2 (25:39) Bridge and Tunnel top 40 people going? More the Funhouse. So the Funhouse is a little more commercial? Well, yeah. Speaker 5 (25:48) I mean, Jelly Bean, then you saw what Speaker 1 (25:49) records he was mixing. He was Paul McCartney. He was an unbelievable DJ. Jelly Bean doesn't get the Speaker 5 (25:57) love as a DJ. He played everything. But the three of Speaker 1 (26:02) them, that's the other thing you've got to realize. They were all playing Clash records. You know what I mean? They were playing Clash, and they were playing James Brown, and they were playing Freeze IOU. They were all playing across the board. So they were all Speaker 2 (26:14) open format DJs? All Speaker 1 (26:15) open format. Okay. So that was my vibe of what I wanted to hear. You know, obviously Larry would end more disco, and Mark played a little bit more rock and electro and Jellybean played across. But each one of those clubs was very different. You could travel amongst those clubs in one night. That was the thing. There were so many clubs in New York. Better Days, T. Scott. I mean, there were these amazing clubs everywhere, Speaker 5 (26:42) you know? What was the better club for strictly Speaker 2 (26:45) just dancing? Speaker 1 (26:48) Not Danceteria, funnily enough. But for Speaker 5 (26:52) sort of, well, you wouldn't even call it house dancing. No. Okay, B-boy or sort of early B-boy breaking and kick dancing and all that. The young kids, they were all underage anyway, you know, at Funhouse. They were kids who