All things Canadian digital policy: A conversation with Kris Klein

The Privacy Advisor Podcast

The episode explores a recent surge in Canadian digital policy developments, specifically focusing on the 'AI for All' strategy and new legislati

Key takeaways

• The Canadian government introduced the 'AI for All' strategy to promote economic growth and digital sovereignty.
• Bill C-34, the Safe Social Media Act, proposes banning children under 16 from certain social media platforms.

Main topics

• Canadian Digital Policy
• AI Governance

Notable quotes

Privacy and trust are now being treated as conditions for AI adoption, not as a compliance obligation to be addressed later.

Conclusion

The episode provides a critical look at how Canada is attempting to mo

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) For those following along with digital policy in Canada, the last few weeks have been chock full of developments. In early June, the Canadian government introduced its AI for All strategy, aimed at driving economic growth, bolstering digital sovereignty, and increasing trust and safety, among many other initiatives. The government also released Bill C-34, the Safe Social Media Act, which would ban children under age 16 from accessing certain social media platforms. And Bill C-36, which would reform the nation's privacy laws, including a restructure of its enforcement framework. Chris Klein is the IAPP country leader for Canada and partner at Annovation. I recently caught up with Chris to discuss these converging policy developments and what we can expect from the AI strategy and privacy reforms. Here's what he had to say. Chris Klein, thanks for joining me on the podcast. How are you? Speaker 2 (1:12) I'm great, Jed. It's a beautiful summer day up here in Ottawa. And my only thing is that now that I'm thinking about it, of all our years working together, and it's been since like, I don't know, like for as long as you've been there, we've worked together. You've never once done a podcast with me. I'm like... What's going on? Speaker 1 (1:36) Well, no time better than now. Canada has been very busy in recent weeks with digital policy. Four big ones have come out. The Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada issued their annual report. The AI for All strategy was introduced by the government. A social media bill banning... Children's access to certain social media sites under the age of 16 was tabled. And then, of course, major privacy reform was also put on the table, Bill C-36. So we kind of have a lot to go over. Just kind of starting off, you know, high level. Are these all kind of in tandem? Is this sound seems like it's it's on purpose that this is all happening at once. Speaker 2 (2:25) It seems like it's on purpose. It's not. But but yes, you're right. It's sort of a confluence of a lot of things. You didn't even mention sort of some really important, notable decisions have come out in the last little while. There is the investigation into AI, open AI. And then there was the investigation into. X is Grok. And so, yeah, a lot happening in the digital space up here in Canada. And I think for a lot of us, we've been saying, well, we think it's been a long time coming. And so, yeah, I'm not sure exactly where you want to jump off. Not everything is without. Controversy? Controversy is like we're Canadian. Well, there's not much of a controversy. But not everything is being accepted, you know, as sort of being perfect and hunky dory. I think the social media ban is one that, you know, I think a lot of social media companies will want to make comment on it and try to improve the bill. From what I'm hearing is that like, Nobody is particularly up in arms and saying like, this is the worst thing ever. So I think it's going to be workable. You know, there are questions about sort of how are you going to enforce this? Kids are smart these days. How are you going to like, you know, keep them away from these digital devices? And so there's a lot of sort of like that type of talk. But it's good to sort of see, you know, the Canadian government at least exploring this idea about sort of digital harm. And yeah, and, you know, quite frankly, I've I've I personally really have tried to reduce my amount of time on social media. I think I think if we all take sort of stock about just how much we get sort of stuck, you know, scrolling, then then we realize that, yeah, if you're a 12 year old and you're and you're you're just being fed everything that there. And there are just too many anecdotal examples of kids being hurt. So I'm glad we're doing something. I think there will be sort of some questions about sort of the details of how it's all going to work and play out. And quite frankly, I know Australia is doing it. UK is thinking about doing it. So like the fact that Canada is willing to, you know, explore and experiment on this, I think the issue is important enough. And you know what, even if we don't get it perfect, let's hope that we can sort of evolve and at least sort of, you know, take some sort of steps forward. Speaker 1 (5:15) Yeah, you mentioned the UK that was just introduced a couple of weeks ago. Now with Keir Starmer, the prime minister resigning or offering his resignation. That was something he had proposed. We'll see what happens there. And then interestingly, with the Australia ban, I had Julia Inman Grant, the safety commissioner for Australia on this podcast, going back almost two years ago now. New York Times did a piece on it recently, now that it's been in effect for more than a year, that to your point, you know, seven out of 10. children are still accessing these sites, but maybe it will have longer term effects for perhaps the next generation of kids. So we'll see there, TBD. We can also kind of get into the children's privacy aspect of things when we get to Bill C-36, but maybe we should step back and kind of talk about the AI for all strategy. This is a real big one. Mark Carney introduced it a couple of weeks ago. Really, it's built around things that you hear words like trust, of course, innovation, things like that. And that came out in tandem with the OPC's annual report that also kind of got into things like trust. Can you talk about? Yeah, Speaker 2 (6:30) again, it's not too surprising, right? Like when you just think about the world since, particularly since OpenAI came out with ChatGPT, right, in 2022. Look, the IAPP is pivoted. We have two global conferences on AI governance now. And so, yeah, it's top of mind. And when Kearney was elected prime minister in his cabinet, like for the first time ever, he appointed a minister to be in charge of AI. So like clear signals that this government. is taking AI seriously and, and the IPP's own Ashley Castleman is like right on top of things. We're lucky because she's Canadian and she's well connected to this group. But, but yeah, I think the fact that it's, it's now here, it's introduced. Like I said earlier, it's like for a lot of us, it's a long time coming. We're glad that we're moving forward. I think a lot of it. Two is the one thing you didn't mention, like you mentioned trust and all these other pillars. But another sort of big thing that's happened since the American election from a few years ago now is data sovereignty. And the Canadian psyche has changed up here. And we've recognized that perhaps. Our bond with American businesses and American culture has been sort of too strong. And we are looking to sort of build relationships with other countries, some of them even bold. Like we're all of a sudden like we're pretty good friends with China. This is like a huge about face for Canada. But definitely in Europe, we're making stronger ties. And this notion about sort of data trust and data sovereignty and being able to always make sure that our data is respected and treated properly and perhaps not always left to the whims of the American tech giants and the American government. So I think that is actually part of the tidal wave that is creating all this. And yeah, and it's no wonder, you know, when you take a look at the OPC's annual report and their recent decisions, again, it's very focused on creating or trying to create regimes and answers. I mean, the OPC is stuck interpreting a very old law, but you can see the motivation behind them in the sense that they are trying to interpret our old law, PIPEDA. in a way that sort of does its best to rein in on the dangers that could possibly be caused by AI. Now, is it perfect? I don't, you know, I'm not sure. I think that, you know, part of the issue we have is, again, our law is based on concepts from the 1980s, like literally 1980. Speaker 2 (9:44) And in 1980, we never thought that we would have data sets the way we have data sets now, and that these data sets would be used by computers to teach themselves things. And so, like, I think from a policy perspective, it's problematic to sort of rely on the concept of consent all the time. And