Bitcoin's iPhone Moment Will Trigger Wall Street FOMO | Jordi Visser

The Pomp Podcast

The episode explores the transformative intersection of AI agents and cryptocurrency, framing the current era as the 'iPhone moment' for cry

Key takeaways

• AI agents represent a fundamental use case for crypto, much like the iPhone enabled Uber.
• Wall Street is entering a FOMO phase regarding Bitcoin due to missing previous trades like semiconductors and Micron.

Main topics

• AI Agents and Agentic Commerce
• Bitcoin Market Outlook

Notable quotes

We are at the same point as when the iPhone came out for crypto.

Conclusion

The episode serves as a bullish roadmap for investors to look toward c

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) We are at the same point as when the iPhone came out for crypto. The change was that the iPhone came out to allow Uber. For crypto, it's obvious. It's the agents. It's plain and simple, the agents. So the fact that to me, the ghost city analogy for ghost rails is about you build all this infrastructure. You build Ethereum, you build Bitcoin, you develop this whole thing. People know where it is. It needs time to survive the test of time. It needs people looking at it and then it can take off. What's Speaker 2 (0:29) going on, guys? Today, we've got a great conversation with Jordy Visser. In this conversation, we talk about what's going on with consumer AI agents. How is it affecting financial markets? Why are there certain stocks that everyone's excited about? But Jordy's got some data that says that they're actually under a lot of pressure. Bitcoin. Broke out, consolidating. Is it going to go up? Is it going to go down? Are we in a Bitcoin bull market? And where else is value going to accrue in your portfolio? What are the assets you don't own that Jordy thinks you should? All that and much more in this conversation with Jordy Visser. Speaker 1 (0:56) All right, Jordy, crypto has done a very good job of hanging in there all Speaker 2 (0:59) week long, even though a number of other things have come under pressure. Why do you think crypto is trading so well? Speaker 1 (1:04) When do we last see each other? Speaker 2 (1:06) A couple days ago, Tuesday, we did a drive-by high-five. I Speaker 1 (1:10) walk into an event not knowing you're there. I thought we were friends. We do this Speaker 2 (1:14) show. Speaker 1 (1:14) I Speaker 2 (1:14) didn't know Speaker 1 (1:14) you were going to Speaker 2 (1:15) be there. Speaker 1 (1:16) We walk through a turnstile the other way. See ya. Oh, see ya. The Speaker 2 (1:19) difference between you and I is you went for multiple days. See ya. Young Pataguan. Listen, I'm an expert at this. I took my train down to D.C., did my 15 minute talk and got right back on the train Speaker 1 (1:29) and came back. You stayed. I stayed and had the best time. And for the people who know that I had a great time, you know who you are. I had a great time. OK, so whenever you the great thing about technical analysis, we talked a lot about the importance of the original break in Bitcoin from the low 60s up. But what was important was the negative news that was happening. in the time before. The clarity act goes down to close to 0%. Fed rate hikes are going through the roof in terms of expectations. And at the same time, you have the cold wallet incident. And yet Bitcoin stayed at like 60 to 65. And so the second that anything good happens, oh, Besson intervenes in the yen and then we get all this debasement stuff and it breaks out. But it stays under the important levels of kind of the highs from the prior six months, which were right around 82. So now we gap up again. So the question is, when you're doing these in technical analysis, where first you handle bad news, you go up. What happened when we broke out last week? The Fed raised rates. Tenure rates are going higher. Equities are, you know, breath is breaking down in the market. And yet we still found a way to go higher again. So I believe based on the inbound traffic I'm getting from. Speaker 2 (2:49) Everybody, Speaker 1 (2:50) everyone, but people that manage trillions of dollars. So not the analysts who work for him, the people who manage trillions of dollars asking me to talk about the paper I wrote two months ago to explain why the paper I wrote on tokenization will change the world, what that means. So I think we've entered a point where you have to realize that people are starting to ask questions about it. Part of this is because. of the events that have occurred with consumer agents and things where I've connected the dots. But part of this is also what happened last year. And I think there's PTSD. People missed Micron. They missed the semiconductor trade. And so I think what's starting to happen here is they know crypto's not dead, meaning... They kind of waved it off. So people that manage lots of money that need to produce alpha, this is not a greed thing. I think there's FOMO starting to set in. You Speaker 2 (3:44) think that there's FOMO coming from Wall Street on the crypto trade? Speaker 1 (3:47) There's no doubt in my mind. Now, I said on the show that I believe that 2027 would be the important year. And the reason is this. You need to have FOMO first because we're nearing the end of the calendar year. And I'm spending a lot of time like I did in D.C. about machine time versus human time. Human time moves really slow. Crypto doesn't move slow. It moves very fast. AI doesn't move slow. It moves very fast. Oh, rates are going higher. This is going to hurt the housing market. This is going to hurt small caps. I posted something on X today. So let me get this straight. The MAG-7 are near all-time high. And the Russell 2000 is breaking down, which means breath is breaking down. And if you do a chart for all of you breath fear mongers now of the market, you'll realize that, oh, QQQ over IWM has been a trade since the iPhone came into existence. If you're not part of the digital economy, you're suffering. So I think there's an element that crypto now has a fundamental use. It has public companies, which means they can do a little bit of investing. They're not going into the tokens, but they are looking. But I think the fact that you and I talk about it all the time, and we have a lot of different listeners. I write about the relationship. I set up a business based on the importance of AI to crypto disrupting macro. I think FOMO is kicking in because they're trying to figure out ways to make money because it's been kind of a frustrating year for Alpha. And I'm just going to give you one example because I can tell by people reaching out on me on things like Visa and MasterCard. So Visa and MasterCard are your classic examples of things that, oh. Crypto is not going to disrupt them. And I'm just like, of course it will. Like, I don't even know how you could argue. They're going to benefit maybe initially, but not in five years. Speaker 2 (5:32) Why? Speaker 1 (5:34) We're entering a deflationary period that people just do not understand. Deflation, not inflation, deflation. You and I agree on that. The deflationary pressures that come from AI are intense. It's just a matter of how long it takes for it to filter through. But where it's really going to filter through is when people are having agents and agents job is to find their airline ticket for the cheapest price that satisfies to book a travel thing where they're stripping out the middlemen as much as possible. Visa and MasterCard by definition are middlemen. So when people argue with me on this, they go, well, no, no, you need this for this. They're going to benefit. I'm like, yeah, just like Salesforce.com. You see Salesforce.com lately. It's up big. It's down 10 % this year. S &P is up 12. So it's underperformed by 22%. Semiconductors, my thematic portfolio is up 45%. Salesforce down here, even the MAG7, they're up 10%. They've underperformed. I think people are making a mistake on Visa and MasterCard. They're not going out of business. But at some point, you have to recognize that terminal value matters again. And crypto and tokenization are going to change the world because it unleashes. A lot of them too, because wealth becomes money. I wrote about that this week. It's on Substack. But on the other side, it brings an enormous amount of entrepreneurs that you can invest in because they're going to have tokens. Is it going to be this year? No, but it'll be in five years. So where Visa and MasterCard go, it's not about them going out of business. It's about in five years, will people still be paying a VIG? Agents won't. Agents don't pay VIGs. Agents figure out how. So people tell me consumer behavior. They know consumer behavior. I'm sorry, but... You don't know agent behavior. Agent behavior is all about the goals and the goals are find things fast and cheap. Speaker 2 (7:20) In the last bull market, there was a lot of institutions that they started to dip their toes. And dipping toes, because they're so big, felt really big to the crypto industry. So if you have, you know, $100 billion of assets and you take 1%, it's a billion dollars. In the crypto world, there was almost no funds that had a billion dollars. And so all of a sudden, quote, unquote, smart money or the big guys show up and they're, wow, they put a billion dollars. To them, it was like, let's see what happens here. It's a 1 % allocation. I do feel like Wall Street, they're ready for the fat pitch now. They last cycle dipped their toe. They know what this thing can do when it's going in the right direction. They understand it's super volatile. They're glad they just dipped their toes and they didn't go all in because they saw the volatility. But your point about FOMO, it's like... Three balls, two strikes, bottom of the ninth, and you know the pitcher's going to throw a fastball. And they're just waiting. And I don't know when, you probably understand better than me, like what are the trigger that's going to let them, you know, just swing. But this time it's not, you know, a billion. It's 10, 20, 30 billion per firm. It's Bitcoin, other cryptos, tokenization. Like now they are ready to play this whole thing. And some of it is they have more options now. They couldn't just go buy. you know, Bitcoin before. So they had to wait for the ETFs. Yeah. But also how many public companies are there now that give them some degree of exposure to individual cryptos or tokenization or even, you know, crypto being used or blockchains being used in certain verticals like the addressable, you know, market of what they can invest in has grown so much as well that they actually can put more money to work at the same time. Speaker 1 (9:02) So let's talk about what you just said and let's go back to 21, 22 when they stubbed their toe. Okay. They bought at the highs. They jumped into NFTs. They jumped into FTX. They jumped into a whole bunch of things and it seemed like an obvious situation. Now, the reality is behind closed doors, the VC world was pumping an enormous amount of money into SaaS businesses and into crypto. COVID is just over. We're in a raging bull market. I've said this before. I'll say it again. For crypto, that was the dot-com bubble. Like, everyone's looking for the dot-com bubble in AI. That was the dot-com bubble for crypto. It wasn't debt. But it was VC money that came in. Well, a lot of these rails, they don't need VC money now. So with AI, the whole world is changing. And this is part of my thing. You don't need to hire people and you get to use digital agents and go through it. The thing that saved dot-com bubble companies is in 2007, there was a change that was able to use those rails. And I keep saying this over and over again. We were at the same point as when the iPhone came out for crypto. The change was that the iPhone came out to allow Uber. I'll joke about this all the time, but you can't take a laptop up and be ordering a car outside. You need Wi-Fi, e-cellular. You needed a smartphone to be able to have Uber work. Speaker 2 (10:26) Well, GPS in the phone was probably the most important part, yeah. Speaker 1 (10:29) Yeah, you couldn't do it, so we needed an app store. For crypto, it's obvious. It's the agents. It's plain and simple, the agents. So the fact that to me, I've been talking about this for a while, that the ghost city analogy for ghost rails. is about you build all this infrastructure. You build Ethereum, you build Bitcoin, you develop this whole thing. People know where it is. It needs time to survive the test of time. It needs people looking at it, and then it can take off. Peter Lynch wrote a book that he's still famous for, which is all about one-upping Wall Street. The beauty of this is... Speaker 1 (11:09) Wall Street doesn't cover tokens and crypto. They're starting to get involved in the rails, but they don't cover individual tokens. So if you're at a big mutual fund or a big pension fund, you're like, you know what I'd really like to see? Hey, can you give me the Morgan Stanley research on crypto tokens? doesn't exist. So before when you were investing, Speaker 2 (11:29) the research exists. Speaker 1 (11:30) Yes, yes. And again, I'm researching. It's live now. It's live. It went out this week and now every week I'll be going through the vertical. So, yes, that was what I planned. My business was about the fact that Peter Lynch's philosophy was the best way to make money is to be early on something. But the only way to be early on