Marlee Matlin | Nobody Stood Up at the Oscars

The Person Who Believed In Me with David Begnaud

In this episode of The Person Who Bel/ieved In Me, Marlee Matlin recounts her journey from a young performer in Chicago to an Academy Award-

Key takeaways

• Henry Winkler encouraged Marlin's acting dreams at age 12 after her mother suggested she pursue a more practical education.
• Marlee won the Academy Award for Best Actress for her role in 'Children of a Lesser God'.

Main topics

• Mentorship and self-belief
• Deaf culture and identity

Notable quotes

He rescued me from not believing in myself.

Conclusion

A powerful testament to how a single person's belief can shape a lifet

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) I dreamed big, just like any child would want to dream. I went up to him afterwards. My mother just then interrupted him and said, look, Henry, tell her, go to college. Seriously? In all honesty, it broke my heart. Speaker 1 (0:11) He Speaker 2 (0:11) rescued me from not believing in myself. Speaker 1 (0:16) Activist, author, producer. She became the Speaker 3 (0:18) youngest person to win a Speaker 1 (0:19) Best Actress Academy Award for Children of a Lesser God. Please welcome Marlee Matlin. Speaker 2 (0:25) There were lots of things that they weren't aware of. experience of domestic violence that I had, my drug abuse, the sexual abuse that I had from a teacher. That didn't mean they were bad parents. I needed to know that I Speaker 1 (0:37) was worthy. Speaker 1 (0:41) Welcome to The Person Who Believed in Me. I'm David Begnaud. Marlee Matlin. She was the first deaf performer ever to win an Academy Award, and she's still the youngest woman to win for Best Actress. But when the industry wrote her off right afterwards, she found herself with an Oscar in her hand and really nowhere to live. So she knocked on the door of a man she'd met at 12 years old, the one who once knelt down and told a deaf little girl she could be whatever she wanted to be. Through a storied career, including countless movies, hit TV shows, and industry leadership, Marlee has been a mainstay in entertainment and a tireless advocate for the deaf community. Marlee Madlyn, welcome. Speaker 1 (1:26) I'm so in love with you. It's been a while since a lady told me that, but thank you. Speaker 2 (1:33) Well, that's okay. I'm here. I'm here to tell Speaker 1 (1:35) you that. I love you. Thank you. Thank you. I love everything you've done. I spent a lot of time learning about you. You have a new documentary that is coming out soon. And one of my favorite stories that I didn't know a lot about was the man who believed in you. before you were this big Oscar-winning famous actress. And so we begin our show the same way every time, with a picture. Who is that that believed in you? Speaker 2 (2:03) This man who absolutely, he never once doubted me. He was always very honest with me. And he never... you know, skirted or beaded around the bush. Honestly, he gave me honest answers whenever I asked him a question, whenever I wanted to make an inquiry about something, whether it was about, you know, whether even the question was valid or not. He always said, you know, he never said, that's a stupid question. And I'm proud to call him my second dad. Speaker 1 (2:41) And he is Henry Winkler. Speaker 2 (2:44) Henry Winkler, the one, the most famous, one of the most famous person who saw me. I saw him as the Fonz from Happy Days and... Speaker 2 (2:55) I see him as just Henry, the man who believed in me and told me that when I was 12 years old. Tell Speaker 1 (3:00) me about that meeting. So as I understand it, your mom takes you to an event in the Midwest where you're living. He's making an appearance. And at some point, as the story goes, she walks up to him hoping that he is going to tell you, hey, honey, I know you want to be an actress, but it's probably too tough a field for you. So you might want to find something else. Is that how it goes? Not Speaker 2 (3:24) exactly. What it was is I was at a theater for the deaf, a children's theater for the deaf. It was deaf and hearing kids together, siblings who helped voice for the deaf kids as they delivered their lines, working together as groups. And it was called the Center on Deafness. And unfortunately, it doesn't exist anymore. But it was in Chicago. Speaker 2 (3:49) And the executive at the time thought, well, maybe it might be good to have, I mean, she had heard that the cast of Happy Days was in town. So, you know, just for giggles, let's just invite them and see. I mean, what are the chances that they're going to show up? But in actuality, Henry accepted the invitation to make an appearance at the theater because at the time he was, I think he was doing a fundraiser. So he was in that frame of mind. And Henry mentioned that he had the day off. So I thought, why not? So when I heard that Henry was coming, I, you know, I got into it. I really got prepared. I performed my heart out on stage. And that was it, just for him, just as if he was the only person in the audience. And his wife, Stacey, was there with him too, as well. And she's also somebody I look up to as well. Speaker 2 (4:38) I had been a fan of his for the longest time on Happy Days. And he actually had a deaf character on his show, played by the actress Linda Bove. She played the librarian on Sesame Street. So I was a fan. And anyway, I performed my heart out on stage, right to Henry. Speaker 2 (4:58) and I signed a song called Free to Be You and Me, if you know that. That's from... And I went up to him afterwards, and I said, you know what? I wanted to ask you a simple question. If I could be an actor in Hollywood just like you, I wanted to be just like him in Hollywood. It didn't matter that I was deaf. It didn't matter that he was hearing. I just wanted to ask that question. I dream big, just like any child would want to dream. And... Speaker 2 (5:28) what he would say to any child that would hope he would have said, my mother just then interrupted him. Speaker 2 (5:35) And, of course, being deaf, I didn't hear what she had to say. I didn't find out until much later. When he told me the story, what she asked him to tell me, she took him aside and said, Look, Henry, if you wouldn't mind, could you dampen your enthusiasm? Tell her to, you know, go to college, get an education, and dream other dreams. You can be an actor, but, you know, Hollywood isn't the kindest place, especially if you're deaf. They'll just push you aside because she knew all the magazines that she read in Hollywood. She knew what happens to everyone in Hollywood and the rejection that goes along, let alone a girl who's deaf. It's not that she didn't believe in me. It's that Henry looked at her. He told me this later and said, you know what, Miss Batlin, you're talking to the wrong guy. Speaker 1 (6:30) And when you heard that story those years later, how did it feel? Speaker 2 (6:36) In all honesty, it broke my heart. For my mom. Speaker 1 (6:40) For my Speaker 2 (6:40) mom. Knowing any mother would want the best for their child, most mothers, most mothers who care for their kids, obviously, you understand where a mother comes from. But at the same time... he, quote unquote, rescued me from that, from my dreams, from not believing in myself. Speaker 1 (7:11) It's simple as that, Speaker 2 (7:12) really. Speaker 1 (7:12) Before we go on, I want to introduce the audience to Jack Jason, who has been Marley's producing partner and interpreter. And I would guess he's friends, right? I would guess you're his friend for 40 years. Speaker 2 (7:25) Friends, like brother and sister. You know how that kind of Speaker 1 (7:28) goes. Speaker 1 (7:30) So tell me this story, because as I read it, he was working at NYU. William Hurd was working with you on a project and called NYU, found Jack, and asked if he could come and interpret for you for the project. Speaker 2 (7:44) And as a matter of fact, Jack had an interview. Well, William Hurt was having an interview with a magazine. It was, we had just finished Children of the Lesser God, the film, my first film. And he didn't want the reporter in our house to see us together at the time. So he called looking for an interpreter to take me out in New York City while he was doing an interview. And so he called NYU, where Jack was, and... Speaker 1 (8:12) The rest is history. Well, Jack Jason, welcome as well. Thank you. And I want to ask this question because I had this honest thought to myself. We're living in a world where a lot of questions are asked about who is used. You know, do we use a deaf person to speak for a deaf actor? And so when I listened to Jack, I thought, oh, do people sometimes say, why do you have a man speaking for you? Why not a woman? Have you ever been asked that question? Speaker 2 (8:40) Oh, yeah, sure. I want people to think that I smoke five packs of cigarettes a day, and that's why I have a deep voice. Speaker 2 (8:48) No, actually, it just so happened that we became friends and that at the beginning of having an interpreter, I had never, I'd never had, the world before I met Jack was not knowing how a job of an interpreter works. I didn't know what it meant to have an interpreter, really. I had just come out of, well, I came out of high school and I didn't understand the world of work, per se. with an interpreter, and beyond that. So I learned a great deal from Jack about the deaf world, really, because Jack is a CODA, a child of deaf adults, and ASL is his first language. So I, we can get into that later if you want, but he taught me a great deal. And people have asked me, why do you have a male interpreter? And I thought, well, okay, look, that makes, that's clear that he is the messenger, but I am the message. You see? Knowing that I'm speaking separate from Jack. If it was a woman, Speaker 1 (9:55) it would be like, is that her? You see? Oh, that's interesting. I didn't think about that. Speaker 2 (10:00) What do you think? Speaker 1 (10:01) I don't know. I guess I'm not that smart. Listen. No, no. I can't fix whatever you were Speaker 2 (10:07) saying about that. Speaker 1 (10:09) You're not the only person. She's laughing hard. Let me tell you what spurred that thought by me. I was watching your documentary, and there were two things that occurred to me. When you won the Oscar for Children of a Lesser God, no one stood on their feet. There was no standing ovation. And I remember thinking to myself, as a witness of the moment today, did that occur to you then? Speaker 2 (10:38) No, it didn't. I actually, everything was a blur that night anyway, really. Speaker 1 (10:45) So nobody stood. And today when we watched the- No Speaker 2 (10:48) one? Speaker 1 (10:48) No one stood that the camera showed. I remember there's a moment where Jane Fonda says, oh, that's sweet. And I thought, no, what? Why isn't anyone standing for her? And I don't know why that was a reaction, but that was just a natural human reaction as I watched it in the year 2026, which is 40 years later, right? Because that was 1986? Speaker 2 (11:09) 1987. Speaker 1 (11:10) 1987. So it never occurred to you that no one stood? Speaker 2 (11:15) Maybe they were afraid they didn't know what to do. Maybe it wasn't expected that a deaf woman would Speaker 1 (11:20) win the Oscar, maybe. Maybe. So that leads me to my next point. The next year, you go, as all winners do, to present the award to the next winner. And you did. We have to talk about this, right? Yes, we have to talk about this because it stood out to me. And I want to ask a follow-up about that. So you presented the award and you signed the first part. And when it came to naming the people nominated, you spoke it. And you did this beautiful job. And I'm very proud of it. I'm very Speaker 2 (11:52) happy that I did. Speaker 1 (11:53) Absolutely. And lo and behold, I don't know, days later, the Today Show and other people started asking this question of, and I guess there's a publication called Silent News, which said something like, what was the headline? What was the headline on Silent News? Speaker 2 (12:07) Offensive with a question mark. Speaker 1 (12:09) That's right. You said at the time. Speaker 1 (12:13) that the feedback from the deaf community surprised you in such a way that it left you terrified of the deaf community, petrified. And you said, I still am. Now you said that in your documentary, which came out a few years ago. Are you still petrified of the deaf community? And describe yes or no and why. Speaker 2 (12:37) Remember, this was before social media. Right, right. And we're talking about 39 years ago. Yep. Speaker 2 (12:48) And I remember I was 19 when I got the role of Children of the Lesser God. Remember that? Right. They had been looking for a lead actress for this role, for Sarah Norman in Children of the Lesser God for four years to cast this authentically. And I just appear out of nowhere. They had auditioned so many deaf actors for this role. Speaker 2 (13:18) actually well-known actors and others. And then here I come in. Who's Marlene Matlin? They said, who is she? I came out of nowhere. Speaker 2 (13:30) They had no idea who I was. Nobody had any idea. At the same time, I had no idea what the deaf community was like out there, outside of my home of Chicago. Makes sense. I didn't know it didn't exist really out there. Okay? Me versus the deaf community. The community outside of Chicago, Illinois. All right, so here we are. That's fair, right? Speaker 1 (13:53) Absolutely. Speaker 2 (13:55) So knowing that, when I won... And naturally, the community was very happy because clearly all the years of never having seen a deaf actor win an Academy Award, it was a big deal. Yep. Fine. I felt the love. I felt the respect and beyond. And now I'm thinking about it. Yes, you're right. No one did stand. Anyway, Speaker 1 (14:20) we'll put that aside. How does that feel? Speaker 3 (14:24) I Speaker 2 (14:24) mean. Speaker 2 (14:27) I think it's probably because it was a shock to the audience, the fact that one of their peers didn't win. But who voted for me? They did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They did. Right. Maybe they didn't want to be seen standing. I don't know. Maybe the ones who voted for me, they're just sitting there sort of like, I don't know. Whatever. But thanks for the vote, by the way. Thanks to the Academy. Speaker 2 (14:58) When I spoke the following year, the reason why I chose to speak is because I knew, well, I realized how tough it is to get work. Yes. I learned the hard way within that year between when I won and when I presented. And Henry Winkler said to me, it's hard. It's hard. You have to work at it. You have to work at it. It doesn't come like, you know, no one's going to hand you a silver spoon and just say, here's your work. It's not going to happen that way. So I thought, okay, well, what am I going to do? People don't know me. They don't know that I can speak. I can speak fairly well for a deaf person, me, as me, Marlee Matlin. You heard me speaking. So why don't I choose to use the moment to speak so that people throughout the world who watch the Oscars can hear me? Maybe some producer or some writer or some director will go, oh, okay, and write me something. Sort of, you know, work. All right? Sell me. I'm selling myself, basically, is what I was doing. It was up to me. No one told me to speak. No one told me that I had to speak for the sake of work. I Speaker 3 (16:12) chose Speaker 2 (16:13) to speak. The nominations. Not my agent, not my friends, not Jack, no one. I didn't even think about the deaf community in that moment. I didn't think about their feelings. I didn't think about what they were going to do, what was right, what was wrong. And the reason why is because I had no idea. I had no understanding of the history of the deaf culture. Speaker 2 (16:43) I wasn't clued in or taught about the history of, you know, even while I was being raised in Chicago, we had no deaf culture classes like they do now, which makes sense. You're following my line of thinking here? 100%. So, I mean, it's not an excuse. It's just a fact. So I had no one to guide me in that respect to say, look, Marley. Speaker 2 (17:11) And I'm jumping ahead, but as soon as I was done speaking, obviously, the right person came up to get the Academy Award, Michael Douglas, right? So I must have said his name right. So before I knew it, it blew up and out of hand, and I was completely thrown for a loop. And I was told... that I was sending a message to parents of deaf children that the right way to raise your child, to give your child an education, is to teach them to speak and not to sign. And I said, how did that come into the picture? What do you mean? So it wasn't my intention. No one asked me what I was doing. No one said, why did you do what you did? So instead, they just rejected me. And so I shut them out for a good 15 years. Speaker 2 (18:09) And to this day, I don't regret what I did. Only because I wasn't given the opportunity to explain why I did what I did. And they didn't give me the opportunity to explain why they were angry with me. Speaker 1 (18:34) Are you still terrified of the community today? To get to that point, yes. To Speaker 2 (18:40) get Speaker 1 (18:40) to that point. In a way, yes. In a way, yes. But terrified of what? Speaker 2 (18:47) Not terrified, but I'm much more, I'm a great deal, obviously I have a thicker skin now, but yet I am sensitive to. Speaker 2 (19:01) I'm sensitive to people bullying other deaf people because I've been there. And I'm still, I mean, I guess what I can say is I have PTSD, really, from that experience. I don't think it'll ever go away. Speaker 1 (19:15) Do you want to not be the face of the deaf community? Because it's a pedestal maybe that could get you. Speaker 1 (19:24) No, Speaker 2 (19:25) I don't not want to be the face of the deaf community, but I want to work with the deaf community. Totally, totally. I mean, it takes a village, as they say. Hillary Clinton was spot on when she said it takes a village to get things done. Speaker 2 (19:42) It needs that to get your voice heard when you want something. If you want to be heard, it takes a village. But I want the respect as everyone else deserves respect. Speaker 1 (19:55) Do you feel like you get the respect today? I do. I do. Speaker 2 (19:59) I do. It's a lot better. It's a lot better. And there are still a few of those people who still refuse. Speaker 2 (20:07) to quote unquote, I mean, I'm not looking for forgiveness, but those people, they're still, it's just what I call the leftovers. And you know what I do? I just push them aside. I say, you know, bless Speaker 1 (20:20) your heart, whatever,