Bozoma Saint John | Always the Outsider

The Person Who Believed In Me with David Begnaud

In this episode of 'The Person Who Believed In Me,' Bozoma Saint John shares her transformative journey from a Ghanaian immigrant arriving in Colorado at age 12 to

Key takeaways

• A single act of recognition—from a teacher who saw potential where others only saw stereotypes—can alter the trajectory of a life.

Main topics

• Identity and belonging as an immigrant
• The power of a teacher's belief in a student

Notable quotes

"Somebody can believe in you, but unless you believe in what they are saying to you, about you, it doesn't happen."

Conclusion

Bozoma Saint John reflects that her journey from being an outsider in Colorado Springs to

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Somebody can believe in you, but unless you believe in what they are saying to you, about you, it doesn't happen. Wow. You became the company's first Black Sea level executive at Netflix. Does a girl from Ghana foresee herself doing all of that? No. She's an author, public speaker, philanthropist. Entrepreneur, general just badass. TV personality. Marketing executive. The fabulous and fearless Boze St. John. Ari Emanuel. And he says, I've seen the work you've done. Really smart. And I also see you as the person that you are. Almost giving you permission for what everybody else said. Be less of. Don't do that. He said more. I think he was the first boss to ever see me. Because. Speaker 1 (0:55) Welcome to The Person Who Believed in Me. I'm David Begnaud. Bozema St. John. She pitched Beyonce to Pepsi as a 23-year-old assistant, stole the show at Apple's 2016 keynote, and became the first Black C-level executive at Netflix. But before any of that, she was a Ghanaian girl who arrived in Colorado at the age of 12, with her whole life already mapped out for her. A road straight to medical school. Then she met an 11th grade teacher. Speaker 1 (1:22) an English teacher who exposed her to literature and writing and helped her understand that she had some options. This set in place a decade-long development of a legendary marketer, entrepreneur, innovator, writer, and television personality. Welcome to the show, Bozema St. John. Thank you so much. Wonderful to see you. Wow. It's wonderful to see you. So we should tell people before we get to the person who believed in you, and there are three that we're going to talk about. You and I met at a dinner. Yes. We were seated on the side of each other. Speaker 1 (1:51) We didn't know it would happen. And conveniently, we were trying to set up this interview. So I'm just glad it happened. Oh, I am so glad it happened. And it was amazing because as soon as I sat next to you, first of all, you're magnetic. And so I was like, oh, what an interesting person. Then you turned and I was like, oh, it's you. I'm trying to get on your show. You're like our team's been talking. Yes. So I am very, very happy to be here and glad to be in conversation with you. Likewise. The pleasure is ours. We begin, Bozema, as you may have heard, the same way each time with a photo. We are looking at Miss Wood. Martha Wood. Tell us who she is and why you chose her as the person who believed in you. Well, why am I already crying? We have Kleenex. Thank you. We're 30 seconds in and I'm already crying? It's going to be a good show. Oh, man. Speaker 1 (2:50) Miss Wood, so you already said I got to Colorado Springs, Colorado when I was 12. Although I had been born in the U.S. and my family had lived in many countries before we landed in Colorado Springs, when I got there, what I knew to be true, which is that Africa is a magnificent place. with lots of history and richness and culture that should be admired, my classmates, some of my teachers, pastor, other community members only saw what they saw on TV. You know, Sally Struthers and, I guess I'm a name dropper, and UNICEF and all these others who had painted Africa as this place that was desolate. The children with flies on their eyes and distended bellies, they were worth one cent a day. And those images were on my classmates' fridges at home. When they would come to school, they would look at me and only see the image of, you know, that, thank you, only see the image of that. Speaker 1 (4:03) desolate person who had nothing to contribute to the planet except to beg. And my family, my father being a double PhD, my mother being a fashion designer by trade, very proud people who certainly didn't beg anybody for anything and who came with their own sense of pride. So they didn't allow assimilation into a new culture. Like you would see, you know, many immigrants do. Of course, no fault in that. You're trying to get to know a new culture. You want people to accept you. Of course you assimilate. But for them, they were like, no, you're not going to have any American names. You're not going to have anyone mispronounce your name. We're certainly not going to eat different food because your little white friends show up. And we're going to speak to them in our language, even though we speak five. Speaker 1 (4:57) You know, and so I come from people who know exactly who they are. And my parents were very much, very much enthusiastic about education, especially given the fact that, you know, they had four girls who each had their own talent in various academic, you know, lanes. Mine happened to be the sciences and math. I also picked up Latin. You know, yeah. So I found as kids do, you know, aside from running track and also being a cheerleader. Imagine. I mean, I just had a lot going on, but I knew that education was first and foremost. I knew I was going to be a doctor at 12 because that was the path set out for me. By the way, I wrote about this years later that my my understanding of what my goals were for myself, I didn't know where the line was. Speaker 1 (5:51) between what I wanted for myself and what my parents wanted for me. There was no line. I didn't know the difference. And so what they wanted, I wanted. And I didn't have any problem with that. I wasn't fighting against that. I wasn't like some rebellious kid who said, oh, I hate all the sciences and math. I want to do this other thing. So meeting Miss Wood and the reason why I reacted like that is because she's the first person who ever looked at me and said, ah. But you can be so much more or you can be different than what has been planned for you. I had no idea that that was even possible. And the amazing thing is, it was actually a very simple creative writing assignment, which took me there. You know, that the assignment for the class, I don't remember exactly what the assignment said, but it was something. Speaker 1 (6:42) about, it was about writing about yourself, but in a different location, you know, like imagine yourself somewhere else. Like where would it be? And write it in third person. Write it as if it was somebody else. And so I wrote and I used more probably metaphors and fiery language to describe. The environment, you know, the type of things that this other Bose would like to be doing. And it was that piece of writing that she held up in class and read out loud. I was terrified. So when she starts reading your words to the class, it felt like what? Oh, you know what's interesting? Speaker 1 (7:37) I wasn't unused to teachers praising me in front of a class. Right. You understood attention. I understood attention. So what made that different? It made it different because it was not the class I expected it to happen. You know, like. Because you didn't see yourself as a writer? No, I definitely didn't see myself as a writer or someone that should be praised for their writing. I mean, how many times have I been called up to the front of the class to solve the math problem? Hundreds, you know, or called in class when there was an experiment happening with the beakers, you know, with my teacher. They were like, Bose, come assist me. Because they knew I wouldn't mess it up. Like, that had happened a lot. Speaker 1 (8:21) But it wasn't a class where I'd ever had any attention. And I don't think I'd applied myself like in a creative way before. So it was the first time that something that I imagined, something that wasn't right or wrong. You know, like there is no creativity when it comes to math. And in English, writing, dreaming. There is so much subjectivity. And you can inspire people or you can help them think about a different reality. And it was the first time I'd been asked to do that. Here's what's interesting about that. And this is going to be a thread that follows through our conversation. There were people in your life who did things that you weren't looking for. Yes. And those were things that helped you. Yeah. Speaker 1 (9:11) to find talents you didn't even realize you had. Right. Yeah. That being one of them, right? Yes. I would imagine. So I want to, you know, take me to that room when she starts reading your words aloud. The feelings are? I was anxious because in math or in science or even Latin, there's a right answer and a wrong answer. There is no in between. Either you got it right or you got it wrong. And so. Being in a class where she starts reading my words, where somebody could listen and say, well, that wasn't even that good. That wasn't interesting. I didn't like that. And I didn't know what to expect. And the room was silent. I was in 11th grade, so I'd been in the U.S. for five years. I mean... Speaker 1 (10:02) As a child, that feels like forever. As adults. Writing in a language that wasn't your first. Yeah. Having it read aloud in front of a class where it was their first language. Yes, yes. Having, reading it or having her read it amongst classmates who had at one time made fun of my accent. You know? Or having witnessed my dad talking, you know, in front of a congregation. Because he would often speak at church. And people would pretend like they couldn't understand what he was saying because of his accent. You know? I remember actually very distinctly once I went with my dad to a, he was visiting another church and speaking. And he's a beautiful orator. And saying at the beginning, he said, don't concentrate on the way that I pronounce words. Concentrate on the message. It never left me. Because. Speaker 1 (10:59) I understood how people can turn off when they see someone or hear someone that they think is not like them and not hear you. Hey, before we get back to it, if you are loving this episode, do us a favor and hit follow on the show. Takes two seconds. It's free. And it means that you will never miss one of our new episodes, which drop every Monday. That's it. Simple as that. Thank you. There were, over the course of your life, three believers we're going to talk about today. Miss Martha Wood, Spike Lee, and Ari Emanuel. We will get to that. I want to do a little bit of my favorite part, which is the biography portion, if you will. So, Bozema, pronounce your full name for me. You've probably never been asked to do that in an interview. I know, I'm like, never in an interview. Bozema Efiba Mamichi St. John. Speaker 1 (11:49) It's beautiful to hear you say it. Born January 21 in Middletown, Connecticut. Yes. Father, a reverend, double PhD in ethnomusicology, was a clarinet player in the Ghana Army before exiting to the U.S. for graduate school. You attended Wesleyan, entered as a pre-med student before adding English. and African American Studies, moved to New York after college, signed up for temp work, and landed at Spike Lee's company on your very first placement. What was supposed to be a gap year before medical school became a 25-year arc through, get ready for this, guys, PepsiCo, Beats by Dre, Apple Music, Endeavor, Uber, Netflix. You became the company's first Black Sea level executive at Netflix. Speaker 1 (12:46) I know you've heard it said many times. My question to you is, does a girl from Ghana foresee herself doing all of that? No. So then what do you attribute the reality and possibility to? Gosh, that's a hard one. Because... I think if you asked my parents, even asked myself at 12 or early on, I would have said, oh, this is predictable, like math or science. There's a formula and you execute on the inputs and you get a result. And so what you just read off was not anywhere near the math. It's not possible. Even today, as we sit here, you can look up what is the percentage. of the likelihood, I keep going back to math, but the likelihood that a Black woman, forget Ghana, forget any other inputs, just say Black woman, okay? A huge population of the planet. What is the likelihood that they are in the C-suite at all? Now add four. Speaker 1 (13:59) The likelihood, the possibility is almost nil. Does that happen only because there are people along the way who believe you when most of the room is doubting you? Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a combination of things. It's one, a foundation of belief in myself instilled by my parents and some of it by nature, not just by nurture, because I believe there is... There has to be some nature in there that propels you because the nature also has to allow you to believe them when they say it. Oh, that's so big, what you just said. Because somebody can believe in you. How many people don't believe it? Exactly. When it's said to them, somebody can believe in you, but unless you believe in what they are saying to you about you, it doesn't happen. Because, of course, like, look, it can land on you. Yeah. And unless you let it sink in. Speaker 1 (14:53) Unless then you let that turn into action, which they can't do for you. You can only do for yourself. It doesn't happen. And so, yes, there's the element of the inflection points, which was brought on by people in my life, but also my own nature, which allowed me to believe in what they were saying and therefore act. But I think to be clear, you probably would agree that at this point in your life, you probably feel... a responsibility to be the one who believes in the younger yous. Oh, yes. Yes. Because the door is still not open for a lot of younger yous. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And also take action to make sure that those younger yous, the potential of those younger yous becomes reality. Right? 100%. The central spine of what I'd say your life's Speaker 1 (15:48) work is, is what you call the urgent life, right? And it's this philosophy that's not really motivational branding, but it's more a survivalist architecture. Can you talk about that? Yeah. Well, I believe that a lot of my life, although early life was certainly planned and plotted, there are some parts of me that are very spontaneous. That don't allow for