The Optimism We All Need Right Now with Simon Sinek

The Oprah Podcast

Oprah Winfrey welcomes Simon Sinek to discuss his framework for finding purpose and maintaining optimism in uncertain times. The conversatio

Key takeaways

• Simon Sinek defines 'Why' as a deep-seated purpose or belief that inspires action, rather than just a job description.
• To find your 'Why,' look for patterns in your past where you experienced 'flow' and felt naturally engaged regardless of difficulty.

Main topics

• The Golden Circle (Why, How, What)
• Optimism vs. Positivity

Notable quotes

Optimism is the light at the end of the tunnel. It's not the tunnel itself.

Conclusion

The episode provides a roadmap for finding intrinsic motivation by shi

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:00) This episode of the Oprah podcast is presented by our partner, GEICO. I'm so excited to welcome to the tea house, Mr. Optimism himself, Simon Sinek. So you have truly changed the culture because we're now all familiar with the phrase of, what is your why? What is the key to finding your why? This is how I help people find their why. Speaker 5 (0:25) I look at the past and I find the times where for whatever reason they were in flow. Yeah. They loved what they were doing no matter how hard it was. And we can actually define, we can see that pattern and that is the why. Speaker 3 (0:37) I'm just feeling like I'm stuck in a cage and I have the key. What should my guiding question or my guiding light be? So Speaker 5 (0:44) I think... Task number one is you're asking yourself the wrong question, which is not what should I be doing next, but who do I want to be doing the thing next with? Speaker 4 (0:53) That's so key. I saw your light bulb moment right there. I saw your big aha. Speaker 4 (0:59) Hi, everybody, and a warm welcome. I'm really happy to be with you here on the Oprah podcast. We know that there is a lot, a lot of anxiety going on with so many people and what some say is an existential angst around jobs and around careers these days. Maybe you or your loved one has a feeling of disruption and unease. When you think about it, here's the truth. most of our adult lives and waking hours at work and for some even a few more hours a day just getting to and from their jobs and so on this episode of the podcast uh we're asking this question how can you feel more energized more engaged how can you feel more optimistic about work and so i'm so excited to welcome To the tea house, Mr. Optimism himself, Simon Sinek. Simon Speaker 5 (1:57) Sinek's landmark New York Times bestseller, Start Speaker 4 (1:59) With Why, transformed how leaders, entrepreneurs, and employees think. inspiring so many people to shift their focus from what they do to why they do it. Simon brought this revolutionary concept to life with his TED Talk, which went viral and now ranks as the fourth most watched TED Talk of all time, with more than 90 million views. Why? How? Speaker 5 (2:22) What? This little idea explains why some organizations and some leaders are able to inspire where others aren't. Self Speaker 4 (2:31) -described as an unshakable optimist, Simon has continued to inspire people throughout the world with his organization, The Optimism Company, his podcast, A Bit of Optimism, and his most recent New York Times bestsellers, Leaders Eat Last and The Infinite Game. It's hard to believe this is the first time we're sitting down together. First time, Speaker 5 (2:50) yeah. Speaker 4 (2:51) How did that happen? Speaker 5 (2:53) I mean, I blame you, but... No, it's wonderful to be here, and it is surprising because you and I have a very similar worldview. Speaker 4 (3:00) Yes, very similar worldview. Which Speaker 5 (3:02) is we believe in the goodness of people, and we believe in sort of striving towards that. It's nice to finally be here. Speaker 4 (3:08) Yes, and you've written so many books. Your first book, Start With a Why, sold over 3 million copies. Your TED Talk, How Great Leaders Inspire Action. is one of the most popular of all time. But you know what is so fascinating to me about, because this book is now 15 years old, 16 years old now? Yeah, Speaker 1 (3:27) it's Speaker 5 (3:27) coming on, yeah, 16, 17 years old. Speaker 4 (3:29) 16, 17 years old. And the golden circle that you introduced in Start With a Why applies now as it... applied 16 years ago as it will apply 16 years from now. Can you explain the golden circle for the 10 people who haven't heard it? Very simply, every Speaker 5 (3:50) single one of us knows what we do. It's the jobs we have. It's the things we do, right? I'm a doctor. I'm a consultant. I'm a barista. Like, this is what I do. Speaker 4 (3:59) Yeah. Speaker 5 (3:59) Some people know how they do it. These are the things that we think make us stand out or make us better than somebody else who does, also does what we do. But very, very few people can clearly articulate why they do what they do, that deep-seated purpose, cause, or belief. And what I discovered is that the best leaders, everybody from Martin Luther King to Steve Jobs, every single one of them thinks, acts, and communicates the exact same way, and it's the complete opposite to most other people, and every single one of them starts with why. So if you say, what do you do? They don't say, oh, I'm a speaker, I'm an author, I am a talk show host. They say... I wake up every single morning to inspire people to do the things that inspire them. For me, the fun is finding all the ways in which I can do that. Speaker 4 (4:43) And Speaker 5 (4:44) that's how you get to what you do. Speaker 4 (4:45) Yes, it's interesting because Jim Collins just recently wrote a book and he says that people like that were encoded with that, that there was an encoding for them to do that, that that's not something, just as you say, you don't require it out here. You had it in here to begin with. Speaker 5 (5:02) I think, so I agree and I would add onto it, which is it's not that some people are encoded like that. All of us are encoded like that. The question is, are we working in environments and do we have a support structure that encourages and support us to live by that code? Very often we are seduced. by money or fame or to be an influencer. We are pressured to be responsible, become an accountant, because that way you can provide for yourself even though you have no desire to be an accountant, et cetera. So we give into peer pressure, we give into societal pressure, we give into family pressures. And so whether we're following the code is the big question. Speaker 4 (5:42) And so you have truly changed the culture. You've changed how the culture speaks about itself. Because we're now all familiar with the phrase of what is your why? What do you think it is about your message that has resonated? So first of all, were you surprised? Speaker 5 (6:01) I was surprised at the speed and the scale that it took off, but I wasn't surprised that it resonated with people because it's a deeply human message. And it was not something that I... put together for any commercial or academic reason. It was put together for me. It was the solution that I found when I lost my passion for my own work and it was only meant to help me. Yeah. Speaker 4 (6:22) And Speaker 5 (6:22) it did. And I shared it with my friends. And it helped my friends find renewed passion. So Speaker 2 (6:27) you were Speaker 5 (6:27) doing it for their Speaker 4 (6:28) friends? Yeah, yeah. That's how it started. That's how it started. That's Speaker 5 (6:30) how Speaker 4 (6:30) it started. I was giving... Which is the most organic of... Yeah, Speaker 5 (6:32) I was Speaker 4 (6:32) giving Speaker 5 (6:32) talks in my friends' living rooms to their friends and helping people find their Y for a hundred bucks on the side. That's literally how it started. So Speaker 4 (6:37) tell us where you were before you discovered it for yourself. What was actually going on with you? Speaker 5 (6:43) I was living in New York City, living the entrepreneurial dream. I'd started a small business, had a little marketing consultancy. And I knew the statistics that the vast majority, well into the 90th percentile of new businesses fail in the first three years. And so if you're sort of like that kind of stress and that kind of competition, you know, entrepreneurship is a crazy fun game. And we survived. Like we survived three years in business. And my fourth year in business was dark. to say the least, because I'd survived. I now was a member of the small group of organizations that had beaten the three-year statistic. But I was a victim of my own success because I didn't know how to build the structure for a company. It was all my personality and force of personality. And as things started to go well, I didn't know what to do. And it sort of came crashing down on me, to be honest. Not literally, but like the pressure was overwhelming. And I went into what can only be described as depression. And being happy-go-lucky, And living what superficially looks like a good life, I was very afraid or embarrassed to tell people that I was struggling. And so I kept it to myself. You Speaker 4 (7:45) were struggling how? I Speaker 5 (7:47) didn't want to go to work anymore. Speaker 4 (7:48) Wow. Speaker 5 (7:49) I didn't want to wake up and go to work. Speaker 4 (7:50) And Speaker 5 (7:51) I was very, very embarrassed because superficially things were good. And so I sounded whiny, you know? So if you've ever been in a dark place, if you keep it to yourself, it gets worse. That's right. And that's exactly what happened. And it wasn't until a very dear friend of mine came to me and said, something's wrong. And that was the gate that opened up. Okay, Speaker 4 (8:12) so what did uncertainty teach you about yourself? So the single Speaker 5 (8:17) greatest lesson I learned in that whole experience was that I don't have to know everything and I don't have to pretend that I do. And to ask for help. and to say to people, I don't know what's happening, and I don't need to find certainty. I just need to feel not alone as I go through the journey. That was the greatest gift. Speaker 4 (8:39) Yeah. And I've discovered that, too, that many times knowing what you don't want to do is just equally as important as knowing what you do want to do. And that's how you get closer to certainty. So you were speaking earlier about the fact that you and I, it's a surprise that we haven't really connected over the years because we share the same worldview. I remember when I found my why on the Oprah Winfrey show. It was around 1989. I didn't call it the why. I called it intention. So I'm wondering if the why and the intention are the same. I mean, depending Speaker 5 (9:17) on how you define them, probably yes. You know, the way I define why is it's this deep-seated. purpose, cause, or belief. Speaker 4 (9:25) It's the reason why you're doing Speaker 5 (9:25) it. It's the reason behind the reason. It's the reason behind the reason. It's the thing that inspires. It's not a goal. It's not some thing you're trying to obtain. It's not based on the job you do. Right. But it's the thing that inspires you to get out of bed in the morning. And if that thing is there, no matter how hard the work is, it feels worth it. Yeah. And that's, so in the way you're defining intention, the way I define the why, they sound very similar. So Speaker 4 (9:49) for me, the intention became in 89, up until then, I was just doing a show and I was happy to have the job and I was excited about, I was still excited about the work, but something shifted for me and I just wanted to use the show and not be used by the show. I wanted to use the show as a force for good. And so in, In that intention, I told the producers, do not even bring me ideas unless I'm aligned with whatever your intention is so that we all sync up. And so regardless of what the subject is, we're all really saying the same thing, that we're using this story or this person's life or whatever is happening in this experience as a force for good. How do you define the intention? How do you define Speaker 5 (10:39) the why outside of the show? Because the show is one of the things that you do, Speaker 4 (10:44) one Speaker 5 (10:45) of the things that you did to bring your cause to life. This podcast is one of the things that you do to bring your cause to life. How would you define the intention? What's the string that connects absolutely everything? Speaker 4 (10:57) Being a light in the world. Yeah. Speaker 5 (10:59) Yeah. Speaker 4 (11:00) Wherever you go, you're bringing a light in the world. Speaker 5 (11:02) And that's a why. Yeah. Speaker 4 (11:04) That's Speaker 5 (11:04) a Speaker 4 (11:04) why. You're bringing enlightenment in the world. You're bringing light to the person who you're picking up your laundry from today. Being a light in the world. And helping people to see themselves differently. Absolutely in the best light. And Speaker 5 (11:17) this is one of the reasons you have passion and love for what you do, which is... It has purpose. And as you said, when you put that filter up and say, make sure that everything we do, and sometimes we'll get it wrong. Yeah, sometimes we'll Speaker 4 (11:28) get Speaker 5 (11:28) it wrong. Make sure that as many times as possible with intention that we pass through this filter, that it does this, it brings light. And the thing that I love, and this is what a good why is, people forget that a why is actually an act of service. It's something we give to the world. It's not something we take. Absolutely, 100%. And the fact that you say to bring light in the world, you know, it's not just you. You are one of the things that brings light to this world, but your work will inspire others to bring light to this world. Absolutely. Your work will inspire others to bring light to this world, and they in turn will bring light to other people. It's magic. Speaker 4 (12:02) It is magic, and I like the fact that you use the term thread. What is the thread that connects everything? Because I think that is true for most people. there is a thread that connects the dots of their lives, that if they were to look back at that thread, you would see that your life has, you've already defined some sense of purpose for yourself, right? Speaker 5 (12:22) This is how I find, this is how I help people find their why, which is I look at the past. It's not some, it's not a vision board we do cutting up magazines. That's not what it is. I look at the past and I look through their personal lives and their professional lives. And I find the times where for whatever reason they were in flow, where things just naturally were incredible. Speaker 4 (12:43) They Speaker 5 (12:43) loved what they were doing, no matter how hard it was. Even it wasn't a commercial success. And I find that when you look at all of the things, when they just naturally go well, there's a pattern that emerges and we can actually define, we can see that pattern and that is the why. And our why is fully formed by the time we're sort of in our mid to late teens. I Speaker 4 (13:03) would agree with that. Speaker 5 (13:04) We are who we are. We're Speaker 4 (13:05) products of our upbringing. Speaker 5 (13:06) Absolutely. And now the rest of your life is an opportunity to make decisions to be in sync with that why. Speaker 4 (13:11) And if I think about that, so if you think about that for yourself, how is that why formed for you by your teens and what was it? So when I was younger, I said I was happy-go-lucky. Speaker 5 (13:23) That's what I would... That's what I would say when I was trying to explain myself to people. Now I know I have better words for it, something more actionable. My why is to inspire people to do the things that inspire them. Speaker 4 (13:35) So Speaker 5 (13:35) together, each of us can change our world for the better. And I guess, you know, I look at my childhood. I lived all over the world as a kid growing up. Very loving parents, very loving family, very close with my sister. And there was this, there was a, there was a constant encouragement, you know, to, to follow our passions and do what we enjoyed. And sure, we had the pressures to do well in school, but my parents like sort of would encourage us to, to do the things that we liked. Speaker 4 (14:04) And Speaker 5 (14:04) so I think there was just this natural support. Speaker 4 (14:08) Those of you watch the Oprah podcast or listen to us, you know, every story we share. Every guest we welcome is chosen with purpose. And when people share their stories, we're reminded that we're not alone in this journey called life. As the official insurance partner of the podcast, the folks at GEICO understand that the way we move through life and who we move through it with matters. And I know that life starts to move even faster as a new school year begins. Fall routines get underway. The calendar fills up. Whether you're waiting in the school pickup line, loading up the car for a weekend getaway, taking a quiet drive home after a hard day, or cheering on your son or daughter from the sidelines, these moments remind us the road is not always a straight line. GEICO is there with insurance design to help keep you covered along the way. Because life happens, and Speaker 5 (14:59) with the right support, we all just keep driving forward. And Speaker 4 (15:02) that, dear listener, is everything. Speaker 4 (15:08) You do these multiple seminars and speak around the world just as I do. And you always, I know, come across so many people who are like, I don't know what my purpose is. I don't know how do I find my purpose. And, you know, some people may know their why, but still actually fail to act on it. Where does the breakdown occur? I found Speaker 5 (15:30) over the years that the people who struggle the most as their careers progress. Yeah. are the ones who chase money and fame. Speaker 4 (15:38) Ah, Speaker 5 (15:38) yes. So, and I remember, I have this... And Speaker 4 (15:43) now everybody's chasing money and fame. And Speaker 5 (15:44) I know this one, I'm thinking of one case in particular. This guy called me for help. He was in a bad place and he needed some help and so I offered to help. And I went through his life and how did you choose this job